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03-14-1990 - Minutes TC � CITY OF ORANGE MINUTES OF A REGULAR NIEETING CITY TRAFFIC OOI�ISSION Date of Meeting: Ma.rch 14, 1990 ROLL CALL: PRESENT - Commissioners: D. Yarger, J. Fortier, N. Hower B. Leming, F. Sciarra Staff: B. Dennis, Sgt. Weinstein, B. Herrick C. Glass, D. Allenbach, P. Then ABSENT - None I. ODN5II�1T CAI,E�IDAft 1. Request for the installation of a driveway vision zone at the Ra.lph's/Circuit City center driveway on the south side of Maple Ave. west of Main St. Helen VanAuken 186 N. Eckhoff St. Orange, CA 92667 _ Phil Stein - I am very pleased tha.t you are in favor of this request, however, I was wondering if you could install paxking tee's along Main St. to help us with over-flow pa.rking which occurs on the weekends? Bernie Dennis - Parking tee's painted on the pa.vement are typica.11y used in the downtown area where you ha.ve a high demand for on-street pa.rking on a daily basis. Since your additional need for paxking occurs only on the weekend we would prefer not to install them. RECOM1l�TDATION: APPRC)VE driveway vision zone request. MOTION - D. Yarger SEOOND - J. Fortier AYES - Unanimous 2. Request for the installation of a driveway vision zone at 621 P�. Fletcher Ca.rol Strausas 2620 W. Orange Ave. , #M Anaheim, CA 92804 REO�MI�INDATION: APPROVE drivevvay vision zone request. MOTION - B. Leming SEC70ND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous � -2- Minutes 3/14/90 - Cont`d. 3. Request for the installation of green curb, 1-Hour time limit pa.rking, in the paxking bays on Tustin St. and on Chapma.n Ave. adjacent to Selman Chevrolet. Bill Selman 1800 E. Chapma.n Ave. Orange, CA 92666-0031 R.EC30NIl1�iDATION: APPROVE 2rHou.r time li.mit signs. MOTION - B. Leming SECOND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous 4. Request for the installation of 'No Parking - Tuesday 7-11 AM' for street sweeping purposes on both sides of the 100 block of Eckhoff St., and on both sides of Maple Ave. between Eckhoff St. and Stevens St. Helen VanAuken 186 N. Eckhoff St. - Orange, CA 92667 Discussion- Commissioner Leming - I think we should set up a study session with the City Council to discuss the proposed city-wide ordinance which would eliminate the need for us to handle these requests on an individual basis. I will go ahead and make the motion to approve this request, and instruct staff to try and set up the joint study session. RECONIMII�IDAT ION: APP�VE MOTION - B. Leming SEOOND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous � -3- 3/14/90 CTC Minutes - Cont'd. II. U�NSIDII3ATION I1`�S: A. Request for the installation of 'No Parking Anytime' restrictions on both sides of Batavia St. from Taft Ave. to 2,630 ft. northerly. Traffic Engineering Division City of Orange Oral presentation is based on the written sta.ff report, please refer to your copy. Discussion• Lauren Schaap - We operate the Truly Nolen Pest Control at the northeast corner of Grove Ave. and Batavia St. Beca.use of the number of customers that come in on a daily basis we would like to request a 2-Hour time limit pa.rking zone adjacent to our business, as we ha.ve no other on-site paxking available for our customers. Chuck Glass - Staff has no problem with this request, it will still allow for the proposed left turn lanes and we could" put in about 40 feet of 2-Hour pa.rking here. RDOO�IDATION: APPROVE original request. APPRQVE the installation of a 40 ft. 2-Haur time li.mit parking zone on the north side of Grove Ave. east of Bata.via St. MOTION - J. Fortier SEOOND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanirrbus B. Request for the installation of additional traffic control devices in proximity to the painted pedestrian crosswalk at 4000 W. Metropolitan Dr. Bernaxd J. Hale, Ph.D. Bergen-Brunswig Corp. 4000 W. Metropolitan Dr. Orange, CA 92667 Oral presentation is based on written staff report, plea.se refer to your copy. Discussion• Dr. Bernard Hale - Discussed the requested measures to ensure the safety of his personnel who like to go over to the 'The City' shopping center during their lunch hours. His security staff conducted their own pedestrian counts which concurred with City counts; additionally, his firm is willing to discuss cost pa.rticipation for any mitigation measures which might help this situation. . -4- 3/14/90 CTC Minutes - Cont'd. R�OD�NIDATION: DENY the request. MOTION - D. Yarger SEOOND - B. Leming AYES - Unanimous C. Three requests for mitigation measures on Prospect St. between Chapman and Spring. Oral presentation is based on written staff report, please refer to your copy. 1. Request for installation of a driveway vision zone on Prospect St. at Ma.ple Ave. Discussion• Frank & Jane Lampkin - Expressed their desire for the vision zone to improve visibility of oncoming traffic. R�OO�IDATION: APP�OVE 20 ft. vi.sion zone on the vwest side of the street north of Maple Ave. MOTION - D. Yarger SEOOND - B. Leming AYES - Unanimous 2. Request for the installation of a pa.inted crosswalk across Prospect. Discussion: There were three members of the audience speaking in favor of the crosswalk, all were in favor of placing the crosswalk on the north side of Ma.ple Ave. , increasing the street lighting and installing signs to discourage jaywalking a.nd channel the crossing activity to the crosswalk. R�OO�IDATION: APPL�DVE insta.11ation of a pedestrian c,rosswall� across Prospect St. at Maple Ave. (Fast), and the posting of 'No P� XiIIg - Use Crosswalk' signi.ng along other segments of Prospect St. betWeen Q�apman Ave. a.nd Spring St. Additionally to prepare a.n (�rrl�nan� for enforcement. MOTION - J. Fortier SEOOND - N. Hower AYES - Unanimous 3. Request for the installation of improved lighting and street sweeping on Prospect St. Discussion• -5- 3/14/90 GTC Minutes - Cont'd. Three speakers in favor of the request. RDOD��IDATION: APPf�OVE the insta.11ation of tw�� temporary street lights bp the Edison Cb. MOTION - N. Hower SECX�ND - F. Sciaxra AYES - Unanimous D. Request to relocate the OCTD bus stop shelter on the north side of Chapman at Yorba St. and remove one street tree on Chapman Ave. OCTD 11222 Aca.cia Parkway Garden Grove, CA 92642-3055 Please refer to written staff report. I7iscu.ssion: Chuck Glass - We have ha.d conversation with OGTD�regarding the street tree removal and ha.ve agreed tha.t at this time the tree is not a problem and will consider its removal in the future should the need axise. R�(X�dDATION: APPI�OVE as x'eco�ended. MOTION - J. Fortier SECOND - D. Yarger AYES - Unanimous E. Review of traffic controls on �stin St. between Ka.tella Ave. and Collins Ave., and request for the insta.11ation of traffic signal at the intersection of Tustin St. and Adams Ave. Lucretia Ortega 1538 E. Adams Ave. Orange, CA 92667 Please refer to written staff report. -6- 3/14/90 CTC Minutes - Cont'd. I7iseussion: Ba.rbara DeNiro - My concern is tha.t if you do put a signal at Adams every tha.t you would notify us beca.use wha.t you do up there affects our whole axea. There are no left turns going south on Tustin to ea.st on Adams, however, there axe left turns going into Kua.n's and there axe many illegal turns at Adams. There are some problems at the north driveway at the Post Office also and I did ca.11 the Post Office and they don't want to listen to what we want to say. We do ha.ve tha.t off-set intersection at Adams. I was interested in the pedestrian crosswalk ordinarlce tha.t you may establish tha.t may help some as we ha.ve people crossing in different axeas other than the crosswalks. Familiarity with the flashing yellow lights leads to them being ignored. I would recommend improved lighting in this area. Chairman Yarger - Could we do a study and get the Post Office involved in the possibility of signalizing that driveway axea. of theirs? Bernie Dennis - We would ha,ve to adivse you that in regard to the Post Office, we sincerely feel tha.t the problem rest with the Post Office. Keep in mind, however, that we will make our best effort to negotiate with them. The City has absolutely zero jurisdiction over -their property and they, unfortunately, work very often on an attitude of "like it or lump it" but we think that we have a strong enough ca.se with really the impa.cts to their operations tha.t we will give it our best effort to get it resolved and we probably for the last 20 yeaxs ha.ve been under the gun to signalize Adams. We ha.ve steadfastly stood against tha.t recommendation for the simple reason tha.t we feel tha.t it would, ineeed induce through traffic into tha.t residential axea and that is not our wish. We want to get away from tha.t issue and get back to the Post Office operation where we think it would be better received. R�C70�E[�IDATION: DENY the request. MOTION - D. Yarger SEOOND - J. Fortier AYES - Unanimous F. Request to establish a 35 MPH speed limit on Canyon View Ave. between Chapma.n Ave. and Newport Blvd. Orange Police Dept. City of Orange Please refer to written staff report. -7- 3/I4/90 GTC Minutes - Cont'd. L7iscu.ssion• Commissioner Hower - I ha.ve a great deal of problems with this still. Could I ask staff what percentage of vehicles are within the pa.ce speed? Chuck Glass - I would ha,ve to count them up. Commissioner Hower - Normally you'd ha.ve 60-75� within pa,ce speed, and the pa.ce speed here is 37-46 MPH which means that percentage of vehicles are going to be in violation if 35 MPH is established before we even start. In questioning some of these answers by staff to the questions it would appear that an engineering survey do not need to be used by radar but it does need to be done by some type of timing device by definition in the vehcile code itself, under Section 627 Engineering and Traffic Survey, Section B-1 prevailing speeds are determined by traffic engineering mea.urements. That would mean some type of ineaurement of wha.tever means by timing. Now under question CVC dces the sp�d need to be set at or neax the 85th percentile speed in order to be enforceable by radax? It requires prevailing speed to be determined or established by traffic engineering measurements and norrnally I don't know wha.t your reference is from back here since it doesn't given under the State Traffic Manual, it�dces layout how these axe to be determined but it is obvious that the public since its existing 35 MPH signing its obvious tha.t the public does not feel tha.t there is a problem out thee and the vehicle code does say that grade, curvature and so on will not be used lanless its something that is not obvious to the public and in driving a number of time I cannot see a problem that is not obvious to the public. If the grade is the only criteria for lowering the speed limit to the 35 MPH I would think we would ha.ve some type of grade warning out there and there is none. Asst. City Atty. Bob Herrick - I understand that its more than just a question of the grade that there is a line of sight problem with, a blind intersection and tha.t the roadway was designed with a 35 MPH traffic. But if that is the ca.se I would ha.ve some serious concerns about setting a speed limit higher than 35 MPH, the vehicle code does not make the 85th percentile to be all and end all, it is only one of several considerations which the City ma.y make in determining speed limits. Co�nissioner Hower - That is correct, but also tha.t it does state tha.t unless it is a problem that is obvious �o the motorist then it will not be down-graded. Bob Herrick - I believe you axe referring to 22358.5 Ibwnward Speed Zoning - and that provision deals with special speed zones relating to a paxticulax, ha,zards. My understanding here is we axe ta.lking about setting the basic speed limit for the whole stretch of road, not just creating a downward speed zone here. �. -8- 3/14/90 CTC Minutes - Cont'd. Commissioner Hower - Do we ha.ve anything tha.t shows the design criteria was for a 35 MPH speed? Chuck Glass - I'm certain the plans would show the grade sight distance, etc. but I think perhaps one of the key issues is tha.t there axe two distinctly different things tha.t axe being mixed here. One is downwaxd speed zoning and the other is decrease of loca.l limits. What we are doing here is a decrease of local limit which sa.ys tha.t if 55 is not considered appropriate via a traffic and engineering survey a loca.l agency may set a speed limit less tha.n . . . the downward speed zoning, and if you read the section its in the vehicle code beca.use it was intended by the legislature to verbalize on what their intent was with this type of device. The downward speed zoning is to use, for example, if you ha.ve a highway segment where you have established via the decrease of loca.l limits a speed limit of 35 MPH, but on that segment there is a section tha.t has a steeper than normal grade - or a sha.rper than normal curve - wha.t is being said in the downward speed zoning is don't go out and zone that section for 25-30 MPH if it should be apparent to the motorist that you do have these unusua.l conditions in tha.t segment. As fax as I know we only ha.ve one segment of street in the city that would corrie under the downward speed zone and that's Villa Real where there axe alot of curves a.nd �airly steep slopes to it where there has been a downward speed zoning from the prima facia 25 MPH to 15 MPH, that is the only instance in the city where that has been involved. Commissioner Hower - This would certainly would come under the section of the speed trap in that you're esta.blishing a speed limit lower than is justified by an engineering and traffic survey. Section 40802B and you allude to this in your report and it says you ma.y not be enforceable under the last answer here, however there is always the possibility tha.t if the established speed limit varies too fax from the survey results courts will not uphold the convictions. I would consider a 10-15 MPH downgrade from the 85th percentile as vaxying too fax from the survey results. Essentially wha.t we would be establishing out there, I believe, would be a speed trap. Chuck Glass - If the thing were unrealistic it wouldn't be a cherry pa.tch very long beca.use the courts wouldn't uphold the tickets. Mark Campbell - There is alot more reason to keep it at 35 MPH than because of the grade a.nd there is alot of blind spots. Commissioner Leming - Have we addressed the enforceability issues? Dave Allenbach - The section of road on Canyon View and Outrider 66� of the vehicles sampled were within the pa.ce speed. On the section of Canyon View between Outrider and Newport 67� of those vehicles surveyed were within pa,ce speed. -9- 3/14/90 GTC Minutes - Cont'd. Commissioner Hower - In other words, since its already signed for 35 MPH we`re running 66-67% in violation of tha.t signing. Chairman Yarger - Between Newport and Chapman on Ca.nyon View, how many signals do you anticipa,te will be installed there? Bernie Dennis - We would envision a maximum of three. One is currently in place, the second and third would be at Outrider and Notre Dame. Chairman Yarger - If those signals go in they will pretty well control speed on that section of roa,d and control the access points, and basica.11y it is a walled community, is that correct? Bernie Dennis - Basica.ly so, most of the development along Canyon View is side/back on with only a couple of real close back�n (real close to the street). Commissioner Leming - When the street was built it was designed to a certain speed, what did you envision that speed to be? Bernie Dennis - We envisioned the speed limit to be 35 MPH. Commissioner Hower - Was it signed to tha.t criteria? Bernie Dennis - No. The signs now posted axe for 35 MPH which gives us a tolerance for what certain of our design criteria were. This ha.s not been officially established by ordinance. Chairman Yarger - If radar unit goes out, my understanding is that you do not actua.11y write a citation unless they axe going over 45 MPH, is tha.t correct? Sgt. Weinstein - That's up to the individual officer depending on wha.t he feels the individual ha.zards are. If there's children running through the street and someone goes ripping through there at 35 MPH its unsafe, we can write them for unsafe as well. Sometimes in a 35 MPH zone 40 MPH ma.y be safe, it all depends. However, we do not work radax anywhere there is no traffic survey beca.use we are required to take tha.t traffic survey to court. Pacing is another method we can use and we do not need the survey for that. , -10- 3/14/90 CTC Minutes - Cont'd. Bernie Dennis - It would seem irresponsible to open up a mile long stretch of highway with no posted speed limit. The vehicle code indica.tes that to use radar you ha.ve to perform a traffic and engineering survey, now here's the pa.radox, do you open up the roa.dway and consider that this is not a flatland condition it ha.s horizontal and vertical curves typica.l with hillside development, do you open up the roa.dway with absolutely no posting or al low the traf f ic to build to a level tha.t you can at least get your sample size and then go in and run your speed zone survey. Chances are the folks that use the street to access their properties that axe adjacent to it would not tolerate tha.t. So typica.11y what we do on a new arterial street is to establish a speed limit with a tolerance built in for the design criteria, and post it. After traffic has gotten accustamed to the street, and people will drive the street much differently the 20th time they drive it opposed to the first, then we go out and we conduct our survey as prescribed in the vehicle code so, no, the signs up to the point of acceptance of the ordinance axe not technically legal. Yes - if you don't ha.ve the signs or some type of regulatory device on tha.t type of roadway you're courting a very serious disaster. The Commission is also aware that by the vehicle code definition of radax and speed zone survey and the use of radar we're compelled by law to reevaluate these speed limits every 5 years or earlier. Who knows wha.t �could transpire out there that could result in either an increase/decrease in the 35 MPH limit. Commissioner Leming - To my feeling it's posted 35 MPH - they may be going faster than tha.t - we ma.y not be able to use radar for enforcement - but I would go along with staff's recommendation to approve the request and establish at 35 MPH speed limit on Canyon View Ave. from Chapman Ave. to Newport Blvd. R�UO�E[�iD�ATION: APPROVE MOTION - B. Leming SECOND - J. Fortier AYES - D. Yarger, B. Leming, J. Fortier, F. Sciaxra OPPOSID - N. Hower Motion ca.rries. G. Request for the installation of a traffic signa.l at the intersection of Ca.nyon View Ave. and Ra.ven Ln./Notre Dame Ave. Mark Campbell 162 S. Longspur Ln. Orange, CA 92669 Oral presentation is based on the written sta.ff report, please refer to your copy. -11- 3/14/90 CTC Minutes - Cont'd. RDOO�E[�IDATION: APPROVE request a.nd place on signal priority list. MOTION - J. Fortier Commissioner Hower - I would like to make a corcar�ent on this. It is noted in the report tha.t sp�cd is not a primaxy factor but in the last discussion on the speed zone on Canyon View it appeaxed that speed was a consideration. Based on this information it would be my recorrunendation tha.t we do approve the request to install a traffic signal here due to the hazard factor from the speed. Commissioner Fortier - I think tha.t was my proposal. MOTION - J. Fortier SE(:OND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous Chairman Yarger - The way the configuration is set up it dces not warrant a traffic signal - it's too close to the other signal. Some of the other discussions we ha.ve previously ha.d was tha,t it would create too much congestion. We are trying to work with the City Council and take out the left turn altogether entering Loretta because it is a hazard letting the traffic do one of two things; possibly move up about 150 yaxds to a traffic signal with a left-turn axrow where they can make a U-turn and come back in and enter your facility safely, and/or try to work something out with the facility and put signing where they could at the signal at Yorba St. and come in through tha,t facility so people could get in and out safely. That is a very dangerous area there a.nd we axe very aware of it. R��IDATION: DENY request for sigoal. MOTION - D. Yarger SEOOND - J. Fortier AYES - Unanimous -12- 3/14/90 GTC Minutes - Cont'd. I. Request for the installation of No Parking-Friday 7-11 AM' for street sweeping purposes on both sides of Widdows Way - Taft Ave. to Briaxdale, Briardale Ave. - Orange-0live Rd. to its ea.sterly terminus, Palmdale Ave. and the north side of Taft Ave. from Sha.ffer St. to Orange-Olive Rd. Sue Cook Condominium Management Co. 1818 W. Chapman Ave. Orange, CA 92666 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Discussion- Sue Cook - I am here on behalf of this association. We ha.ve alot of on-street parking here and its virtually impossible to sweep the streets here. One of the things that wasn't address that we would like to ask; at Taft and Widdows Way we ha.ve a very visua.l problem getting out on Taft, could you consider some type vision zone to make it easier for access. Dave Allenbach - The city does ha.ve an ordinance to provide a vision zone at the intersection of a side street to an axterial and since Taft is an arterial we can go ahead and do tha.t without requiring approval by the Commission or the City Council. Commissioner Hower - In going through there various times of the day there's a tremendous amount of on-street paxking and obviously there's not enough on-site pa.rking. I ha.ve a great concern about where these vehicles are going to go. Sue Cook - Speaking for the condo's there is one garage space for each condo unit plus there is restricted pa.rking for residents only which provides two additional pa.rking spa.ces per building, these axe four-plexes which ma,y give you some indication, so there are 4 spa.ces per building plus 2 addition spaces adjacent to each building. Hopefully the people will clean out their garages �.nd we can some of the ca.rs off the street. Chairman Yaxger - Would you say tha.t most people ha.ve filled their garages up where they are not putting their vehicles inside? Sue Cook - I would indica.te that is probably the ca.se, we are trying to work on that too, but we hope tha.t by having the caxs moved one day a week may help, alot of ca.rs axe left there for a long period of time, we axe continuously ca.11ing the police on a 72 hour violation. -13- 3/14/90 CTC Minutes - Cont'd. Chairman Yarger - Are these long term parkers or do you think these vehicles are abandoned? Sue Cook - I think they aren't abandoned but the people just aren't using them. We probably make 6 to 8 calls a month requesting citations and removal. Bernie Dennis - You realize tha.t in regaxd to this kind of installation the city is turn-key, our ordinance allows us to do that as long as the folks in the neighborhood approve. Recognize up front tha.t if there indeed a parking hardship and if the city receives complaints guess where we axe going to channel them to? The over-flow paxking will occur first in the church pa,rking lot on the northeast corner of Briaxdale and Orange-Olive Rd. , and I think a.nother concern is the over-flow pa.rking over onto Shaf fer. Commissioner Fortier - Either we are going to clean the streets or we're not. Ma.ybe the people need to clean out their garages and park their cars in it. R�CJO�E[�IDATION: That �v�e APPfaOVE the request. - MOTION - B. Leming SEOOND - J. Fortier AYES - Unanimous J. Request for a total pa,rking ban of motorhomes, trailers and some campers throughout the City of Orange. John Ca.l ca.ra, Jr. 1528 E. Sunview Dr. Orange, CA 92665 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. I7iscvssion• John Ca.lca.ra, Jr. - The Orange Municipa,l Code 10.34.070 says tha.t there is ?2 hour pa.rking and upon written notice of violation of this section the vehicle must be driven one mile as evidenced by an odometer reading. If the window is covered how can the police read it? There is a flaw in this section of the code that ha.s to be changed in order for the police to do their job. -14- 3/14/90 GTC Minutes - Cont'd. Chairman Yarger - These motorhomes, axe they blocking the view of your driveway or hindering the view of you getting in and out of your driveway? John Ca.lcara - There axen't any pa.rked on my street at all, its generally throughout the city, they're sitting there for months at a time - they don't move. Commissioner Fortier - If it doesn't directly affect you, wha.t is your purpose in this request? John Ca.lcara - Well, the purpose is tha.t I give information to the city and suggest tha.t we keep Orange beautiful, that is one way to start. Let's get these motorhomes off the street, they'll move the motorhome and after they ha�,ve been checked a couple of times they're back to business as usual. Sgt. Weinstein - If an officer can't see into the motorhome some of them carry step stools with them - many, many motorhomes we can read the mileage, there axe very few that we can't when they have the curtains covered. So in addition to marking the tires we look into the windows and get the mileage and when we can't we go to the owners and get the mileage. T`he one's that aren't complying with us are being towed. We axe enforcing this law very well throughout the City. Chairman Yarger - What unit goes out to check this, is it regulax traffic control or do you have to pull a regulax unit off the street? Sgt. Weinstein - Complaints of abandoned vehicles calls sometimes go to regular officer, cadet or paxking control officer will go out and mark the vehicles. As far as towing them, however, the pa.rking control and the cadets axe the one's tha.t do the actua.l towing and final analysis on these vehicles. Alot of times we try to enforce the spirit of the law as well as the letter of the law. Commissioner Fortier - We ha.ve an ordinance and we have a system tha.t works, and most people will get ca.ught sooner or later. I think our police depaxtment does the best job they can with the manpower they have. R�OO�IDATION: Accept sta.ff rec�om�endation and DENY this reque.st. MOTION - D. Yaxger SEOOND - B. Leming AYES - Unanimous -15- 3/14/90 CTC Minutes - Cont'd. K. Oral Presenta.tions Chairman Yarger - Due to some obligations with my business tha.t is demanding my time beginning next month a.nd so I wa.nt to know if anyone on the C,ommission can take my place on Councilwoman Joanne Coontz's Transportation Planning Committee, which meets the third Wednesda.y of each month. Commissioner Hower - I'l1 take it. Chairman Yarger - Now if a.nyone else would like to go you axe entitled to go and sit in. L. Adjournment at 6:30 PM Next regulax meeting is April 11, 1990.