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06-12-1991 - Minutes TC � r� , • . � - _ CITY OF ORANGE MiNUTES OF A REGtJLAR MEETING �1°T� TR�4F��C C�D�VINIIS51�►i� - DATE OF MEETI�� ll�b'� 1�, 1��'1 ROLL CALL: PRESENT— �COMMISSlONERS: � D. YARGER, F.. SCIARRA, N. HOWER , , B. LEMING � �';��5��8�'�- ��'�1►FF: �. DEN�IS, B. HERRICK, C. GLASS, D. ALLENBACH � � . �. �VIJEINSTEII�, F�� GARDNER, P. THEN � ABSENT- ��i`VDMIS��f.)�6ER�: J. FORTIER � [. APPROVAL C�F MtNUTES April 10�, '1991 & May 8, 1991 RE��3N'IMEIVI�ATIQN: Approve as pubiished by the Recording Secretary. , �O�E��ON: F. SCIARRA . ' SECOt�D: B. LEMIfVG AYES: UNANIMOUS � - ti. C�NS.ENT CALENDAR 1. Request to refocate a bus stop on Main St. near Chapman Ave.; and to relacats a bus stop �ign at Chapman Ave. and City Dr. Manjit Parnar, Stops & Zones Dept. � . � drange County Transit District 11222 Acacia Parkway � _ . Garden Grove, California 92642-3005 Please refer to your capy of staff's written report for details on this request. There was no discussion on this item. � REC�MMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE the request. MOTION: F. SCIAR�A SECOND: B. LEMING AYES: UNANIMOUS � � , :-, � ��. C�l��3��1/�!l �I�Ji� �� _ A. Request fior insta�y�tion of �►ra��ted %ft �� ase at the intersection of � ��an Ave. and ��F�ard Canyon i�d. . . �Shiriey S. Huffman , � 1091 �ountry Hifls Dr. Santa Ana, CA 9270a ` � : Please refer to your copy of staff's written report for details on this request. - � There was no discussion on this item. � RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the request. - MOTION: D. YARGER . " � SECOND: F. SCIARRA AYES: UNANIMOUS B. Request for the installation of 'No Skateboarding' signs in tt�e Qld Towne , business district. � � Gertrude Harris ' Antique Market , 117 & 119 N. Olive St. Or�nge, CA 92666. � Qrai presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger npened the pubiic hearing for discussion: � COMMISSIONER LEMING - If you reduce #he signage� by half how does that affect the enforcement? If you're saying we have to doubie sign because skateboarder� are pedestrians so therefore it requires more signage, and you � �educe it, are they going to say, "I didn't see the sign?" What is the enforcement policy now? I didn't know it was a severe problem in the __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, _ whole district; 1 know there is #he 'Hot Skates' outtet for skatebo�ards at Olive/Chapman but have we tried another approach, +education through �the , vendor? � r �... � ° t ..r}� .. . . � . . . . � BERNIE DENNIS - We have evidenc� �hat we have actually lost ��mmerciai interest due to this probiem. Basicaliy tl�� +�n� �s �w�� r��versal, it is - contained generally in this downtown acea, however, the ordinance is very - speci#�c when it says there shalf be no skateboarding in the business district, - . not or� ��f�� tr�+�� w,��hin the business district. 'We would work the specific s��r+e�t basi�� u�a��, t3live St. by� ��if and see what happens, 1 was � working her� last Sunday �� '+e�e ha�d '�� skateboarders inside the civic center corv�pfex, they had come from Riverside, they do the steps and the � planters, etc. even though the civic center is posted to prohibit this activity. � ��"��iDE HARRIS. 11� � '�'!� N. OUVE ST. - !'m next to Mot Skates which is why � g+�t most vf the sk�teboarders and they use this area #or the exhibition style skateboarding. Many times during #he :day they hit my plate-glass windows and 1'm afraid for fhose boys and my customers and my property as wel1. The frortt of my building is full of marks left by their � skateboards where they practice their stunts and they are very close to the v��ndow, if signs could be posted there it would be a big help. Submits a petition of 2� signatures representing downtown merchants supporting the request to enfiorce �MC Section 10.82.01� restricting skateboarding in the • business district.� . , SGT. BARRY WEINSTEIN. OPD - We concur with Traffic Engineering, 1et�s start � out with some signage in the problem area. We do some enforcement now, � but we need phone calls from people observing this because we're on other calls and don't have rthe time we'd like to have to spend in #he down#own area with the skateboarders so v�re do need the citizen- involvement and community action to let us know when this violation is occurring. If we had . some basi� signs starting �in the problem area we would be able to monitor it better and what that does for us, we do stilt enforcement and give tickets for skateboarding, but it helps when we go to court on the #ickets, the . judges and the courts feel that's a more judic+ous way of convicting someone, rather than having someone "know" that there is no skateboarding in a business district, that would help us from that � � standpoint. We will continue #o enforc�e these areas as much as we can. �HAIRMAN YARGER - Closes the public hearing and brings #he item back #o the Commission for a motion. - - -- RECOtv�nn��ATtON: That the C'TC, by Motion, APPR�VE #he request. � MOTION: F. SCIARRA � _ SECOND: B. LEMING � AYES; UNANIMOUS . 3 �f� C. Request for the installation of an "al!-way �TOP" control device at the - - intersection of �ollins Ave. and �� r.d��1i�€�r�� t. � - Thomas K. O'Neiil . . 870 i�. Lynn t�r. _ -. - : �can��, C� �2��' - Orai presentation was based on the written ��t�� repflrt, please refer to your . � � � copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for discussion. . THOMA� Q'NEILL. 870 N. �:Y�1�1 t�R.� - 1 know that you wer�n't doing traffic counts at �:OC�► �v��a� +�hiidren are coming home from school, nor was he here at 5;Q� +�►+�h�r� �cids want to cross Collins when Gars are going at least � 4� �PH. The average speed on this street is above 35 MPH, and yet when tickets are issued unless they are going even faster�than that #he judges won't find the defendants guilty. OPD officers have been present here at my request and have issued numerous citations for speeding. I think with this close �aroximaty ta� #hs schgol it ca11s for a STOP sign and there is no +�c��d re�son in my mind why you can deny this request. The speed limit h,ere is posted 25 MPH 'WHEN CHtLDREN ARE PRESENT' and ! can guarantee you it isn't observed. � - CHAIRMAN YARGER - You indicated that chiidren �cross here� when coming � . �home from school. !s there a� sidewalk on the south side t�fi �ollins Ave.? There is a crossing guard at Cambridge and Collins assigned to escort the cfiildren across from #he school to th�e south side of Collins Ave. where they can walk down the sidewalk and enter Lynn Dr. without crossing Collins Ave. between Cambridge and Tustin St., that's why we provide a crossing guard at this lacation, to protect them. � � THOMAS O'NEILL - I think it's wonderful that the city does that, but I can assu�e you that children coming out of that schoo! yard don't walk in the . opposite direction of their :home half a block in order to walk across the � stre�et with a crossing guard and then walk a half a block back. �They come out of the southeast corner of the school yard to the first crosswalk and . they cross the street. � - � .CHAIRMAN YARGER - t ihink that's the responsibifity of botfi the school and the parents to educate the children that they shoutd cross with the assistance of the crossing guard for their protection. : � THQMAS O'NEILL - Well I think it may be that the City Traffic Commission � needs to be educated. We're talking about children's lives, and if it's just an inconvenience to the city. . . . , If one of m� children +get hurt I can . guarantee that you will be sued. , � 4 � � r . f a . �HA�RMAtv Y��CER - We have a protection zone set up for the children and if t��ey� �� i��► it, and their parents and s��a►a� �dc��ate them to abide by it, , . �� t ther� ��r+�� he stre�� f��: . THOMAS 0'NEILL - Then why th�e �� t1�+�e�+�? if ��s not goong � to be enforce�d 25 �P� �� a s��+�� on+e �hen �let's just puil the c�osswalk. � That d+oesn't solve the probiem becau�e childr�n are still going to cross there. ! still don't see any Iogicai reason why it �oesn't "meet your criteria." - - 9��t�� s - � �� ive you several reasons: : . � 1). one o� v,r'��ch �rou ans��+d �rou��ef� �rh�n you stated �hat you were going to sue us if ar�yt��ng happened to :your chiid; we stand exactiy this - same risk in instailing a STOP sign that doesn't meet minimum warrants. � Our warrants are predicated on traffic volume, accicent history and � � geometric design. None of these problems occur with #his location that r�ou�t� mA�� F�e v�rar�ants. _ 2) Perhaps of less interest but a fa�t. We are in the process ofi beginning tt�� ubli� t�+earing process again to signalize both Collins and Shaffer, and . ��ir�s and �Cambridge. We are willing to.spen�d about 5240,000 to- make � _ that street work smoothly in regard to flow and capacity, and also maybe get rid of some of the aggrarration that accompanies waiting at �he existing 4-way STOP's during the peak hours. The traffic o� Col(ins is not going to go down, it will probably increase and it wouldn't seem reasonable to spend this much money #a �mplement these types of traffic improvements and #urn around and put a STOP sign between the two sigr�als. Perhaps the nature �f �rour request should not�have been a STOP sign, perhaps it sfiould have been a signal and perhaps we could look at it in that respect again, . however, we work on a warrant basis. � THOMAS 0'NEILL - So are you telling me you don't want the STOP sign and you want to put in signals to sp�eed up the filow'� . � . BERNfE DENNIS - Na! didn't say that �t aIL � THOMAS 0'NEILL - Well that's the way I understood it. - � - , 5 . ,,, , ,� . ,� �ERNIE DENNiS - You're listening to �rvh:at �►��a ��t �� e.�r �s�lectively. We want to make Cotlins work more effi��+��#�� , ��#. tt� �+� ��e �a � �ccommodate th+e traff�c that's on the street a�r�d °t�� fff�� tha� �►i�� ►ccur - � on the street. We want to remove #he aggravation that's ns�w .associated �nrith the 4-wa�► STOP's, we don't want to recreate tfiat same scenario �r�,�f�� f��-�r�� arrrbr,,d��e and .Tustin. 1Ne probab0y have 5 locations along Collin� �r�� ; ��r�� 0►1 related pedestrian crossings, there is no � � way we co��d� put�� y ST��` ,�� one of those, no.�=a c�oss�ng- guard. � . _ ; - THoMAs o'NEILL - �an you explai� �+� �m� why just down Cambridge by �h�e - s�hoal there is a STOP ��g� on each corner (Pairn and '�IValnut). is it that �.�d� t�� ►�� +��n't deserve one because they are smarter, better educa�ted or o1d�r? We're talking about safety here, not the comfort of - people driving back and forth �down �Coliins using that as a thoroughfar�e to � get frorn the freevoiay to their job. � � - s��R�� E�t�� - We hav� a 4-way STOP at Handy and- Collins, we also have . a 4-way STOP at Collins ar�� Cambridge, :another schoo! crossing point. !f you look around we h�ve a number of 4-way STOP's throughout the city �r�t �� d�+��'� �� them at every single iocation where children cross the = street; nor could we reasonably do that. . COMMISSIONER LEMING - The city does provide a crossing guard for the � children at Cambridge and �ollins and 1 ihink it's imperative that parents and the school recommend that children use those, that's why it was provided. ��'. HA�RRY WV�f�1ST�IN - During schoo! h�ours when children are crossing the street and chil+dren are in the area we do enfiorce the 25 MPH posting, we don't always win our tickets in court based on tfiat because the judges _ don't always agree with us. Collins Ave. �is one of our regular en#orcement � areas, we will be there on a continual basis and based on yo�r concerns expressed today we will intensify enforc�ment; but as you �re well aware . there are times 8:00 or 10:00 p.m. that 25 MPH �s not a reasanable enforcement speed, we �o enforce what we #eel to be safe and we do adhere to the 25 MPM during school times and will cantinue to do so. CHAIRMAN YARGER - Closes the public hearing at this time and requests a motion�from #he Commission. RECOMMEnt�A'r�ON: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY "the request. - MOTION: B. LEMING , . � SECOND: F. SCIARRA . . AYES: UNANIM4US � a::: . 6 , . . , , � ;' , � - . - D. Pol�cy and procedures fior the implementation of 'Neighborhood Parking - `Permit P�ogram' areas. . Traffic E��in�eering Division � � �ity of Orar�ge Oral presentation was based on the written staff �eport, please refer to your � copy. There was no discussion �n�this item. � � REGOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE the poficy and procedures. � : MOTIC?�V: D. YARGER SECOND: F. SCtARRA . . AYES: UNANIMOUS E. Request for the impfementation of a 'Neighborhood,Parking Permit Program' . on both sides of Lomita Ave. between Giassei! St. and Orange Stv � Steven Bames , 802 N. Orange St. " . � Orange, CA 92667 - Orai presentation was based on the written staff �eport, please refer to your copy. There was no discussio�: �n this item. � � REGOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the request. :MOTION: F. SCIARRA - SECOND: N. HOWER AYES:. UNANIMOUS F. Request the implementation of a `Neighborhood Parking Permit Program' on the west side of Elm St. south of Sycamore Ave. Sylvia l�ernn�n 36�5 N. EIm St. . Orange, CA 92668 . Qral presentation was based on the written staff report, please r+efer to your copy. Chairman 'Yarger opened the public hearing for discussion o# this request. . . � . .�, � � , � � CHARLES BEAM - 348 N. ELM T. - I would like to preface my remarks with a question about the school on the east side, is it possibie that these people using the athletic fields � atso use the schoai parking iots during the weekends? � BERtvtE �ENtvis - Yes, they coutd use the schooi park�ng facilities. �HARLES BEAiVi - DurBng the week, after schooi hours, they come out and piay bail. We can park 2 cars in the driveway but then #here isn't anyplace for guests to park, the driveway is on an incline. The weekends are the _Y warst, there is absolutely no on-street parking available. ! think the leagues � �sing the athletic f�eids shoutd be requested to utilize the school parking facilities and not to impose such a hardship on the area residents. ED DE SUTTER - 322 N. ELM T. - Not oniy on weekends does this problem exist, it's every night,. When you come home from work and you can't park in front of your own house it's pretty bad. On weekends t have to move my . vehicles out on the street in order #or my guests to be able to park in my garage and driveway during their visit. CHAIRMAN YARGER - You say it's every eveni�g that someone is parking on your streets that is over at the schoo! athletic fiefds? ED DE SUTTER - Basically its 5 nights, the 5th night is not nearly as bad as the , � first four. This is during the basebaU season, 3-4 months. BERNIE DENNIS - If you aren't familiar with that tocation the map is somewhat � deceptive, what you have is a full little ieague diamond behind Sycamore Elementary School, then immediately adjacent to that behind the old junior ' high school.are either more little league #ields or soccer fields. - COMMISSIONER LEMING - Has the neighborhood called the P`arks Dept. and inquired who is running the little league and contacted any of the bo�rd members in this regard? ED DE SUTTER - Y�es we have, and they have told us there is �othing they can � do. . COMMISSIONER LEMING - The school provides #hat the gate is open #or parking and there is plenty of parking down there, and you can walk onto �the fields which is adjacent to the parking lot. �This is primarily during the littte league season, and a parking permit program is something you woutd hays to live with all year long when you only have a problem for a few months, I think the way we should approach this is by going to Parks & �ecreation, finding out who's running Orange Little League, and solicit their cooperatior�. � s ' . , � . ED DE Sun'ER - People don't like to waik, they want to drive right out to the fie�d and that's the problem we're having.� _ �HAIRM�4N YARGER - How many.parking space� �� the street do the residents � use? � . ED DE SUTTER - We have 9 houses on the street and we have 12 parking - spo#s. - �HAIRMAN YARGER - To help ease the situation without a park�ng permit program, coufd we put in 'NO PARKING FROM 5-7 P.M.', �o the residents need th�� n-str��t parking at those hours? �f we couid keep them out of ihere for a couple of h�►urs then the street wouid be availabie #o you prior to #hat and after that. Would that heip? . � ED DE SUnER - 1'm more in favor of the parking permit or restricted parking. COMnn�fSSIONER SCIARRA - i iust wanted to point out that staff did� make a study in the area of 11-11:45 and early morning, showing only 9 vehicles . we�e parked on the street during the evening, �nd 7 in the early morning. Is � � this an exception to the rule, you're getting more cars parked there than � - what the study shows? - , _ COMMISSIONER LEMING - t think the parking probiem starts about 4 p.m. and goes untii dark, otherwise they don't have a problem. It's an intense parking probiem on Saturday all-day and then in the evenings during the week. � CHUCK GLASS - In (ight of the testimony that this is a probiem ait week long, and because this is adjacent to an institutional use which is apparently � causing the spill-over, I would have. no problem with going with the � procedure of the petition, etc. provided the residents must understand as � � pointed out this is 7 days a week - 24 fiours a day ali year long restr�ction. CHAIRMAN YARGER - Are you all f�miliar with the procedure on, permit parking? tf you have a relative come over, or even your own car - and you do not have a permit in it you will pay a heavy�fine? � � - E� �E SunER - I understand that completely. How many permits do we get? �. , 9 ., .. ," BERNIE DENNIS - You �nrouid be given a time certain as to when your permits would be available, you would come to the city hail and you would have proof of residency - some documentation that justifies that, you would aiso - . � bring your vehicie registratiQns indicating that you are the owner of the � vehicle or, if you .afe not the owner that someone living at that house is the owner, you get one permanent parking sticker for each of resident vehicles. . Then you get 5 guest 'permits. These guest permits remain the property of the City o# Orange and they can be reclaimed at any time by the �ity, The � guest perrr�its are renewed each year, #he �sticker affixed to your vehicle is permanent. if, of course, you sell your vehicle then bring us some � - documentation that you have sold the vehicle and we'll issue you another one #or your new car. If you're going to fiave a speciat event we wilt issue 25 special guest permits that are good for one �r two days only, if the guest � permit is not in your ve,hicle or whe�e it is supposed to be in your vehicle you will get a ticket, it doesn't make any difference what the reason is, we � don't take them back. � The bi99est problem we have �nrith parking permit areas is the first month when �veryone thinks we're kidding. lf you have a guest that runs in your house to see �rou for a minute - you had better be running out right behind - ' him with a permit in your hand to put in his car. This is not a $5 ticket - and they can be issued every hour on the hour. That's just some of the . ramifications involved. Y CHUCtc G�ASS - Should the Commissian choose to proceed with the petition the permit parking would only be appl+ed to the residential side, we do not post areas that are in fr�nt of �apartments, institutional uses, commercial or � industria( for the permit parking. � COMMfSSIONER LEMING - Then would the little league be here next year saying � that the residents are taking the open side and not parking in front of their , houses? . CHUCK GLASS - Unless I would hear +�therwise I would direct this petition to the persor� making the request befare you today. , COMMISSIONER LEMtNG - I #hink the parking permit program is the least desirable because what's going to happen, we've got 5 Te�uests here, the more of these we establish the more that people are �oing to request them, and the more this gets continued it just spreads the problem over to other . streets in the area. � SYLViA HERMAN - My husband is a board member of the the little league, they park in front of our driveways. The season is over this Saturday S-'!5-91. t-�:. �o � � . � , -CHAIRMAN YARGER - If the season is almost over do you think you Could �c�r��'snue to live with�this until staff could come up with something to help . yo+� ath�r than permit parking, woutd that satisfy you? �YLvi� HE�n�AN - if they�try to come up with something.� VNe have problem� with people at the park too-. �IVe have afot �f people that come over who � d�ink heavily, they park up and down the cui-de-sac, they teave all their trash behind and they don't care when they race up and down the streets. , CHAIRMAN YARGER - That's a sociai problem, not a parking problem. S'r�v�A HERMAN - It's a parking problem because they race up and doa►vn the streets constantly. � CHAIRMAN YARGER - That has nothing to do with parking and it has nothing to do with traffic, it's a social problem. � BERNIE DENNIS - We'll go ahead and send you the petition, you circulate it, Befor.e you formally submit the petition �ou caii our office and make an : : appointment and we'!I sit down with you and go over every parking control altecnative that's available to you. We would be more than glad to do that, and if you're not satisfied with that you've lost nothing � �rou turn your : . petition in and we process it. Fair enough? YVhile you're��circulating your petition go down to Loretta St. (behind LaVeta Elementary School) they �� . have a similar problem and Iook at the treatment that was implemented there and see if that applies to your particular problem. , _ ; . CHUCK GLASS - For clarification, the boundaries of the permit parking area would be Elm St. south of Sycamore Ave. west side only. , CHAIRMAN YARGER - Closes the public hearing and brings the issue back to the Commission for a motion. _ RECOMMENDATlON: That the CTC, by Motion, GQNTINUE the item;- and further that staff prepare a petition fior the permit parking area, send it out and- invite the residents to meet w�th staff prior to the submittal of that � petition �o review alternatives before a neighborhood parking permit program is implemented. - , , MOTIDN: B. LEMING SECOND: F. �CIARRA • AYES UNANlMOUS _ . .:;: , 11 - • � i G. Request far t�he implementation of a 'Neighborhood Parking Permit Program' � . on both sides of Ciark St. north of Walnut Ave. _ James C. Holm - , 515 N. Clark St. _- Orange, CA 92667 - . - Oral presentation was based or� the written staff report, please refer to your . capy. l`here was no disc�ssion on this item, - , . - - REC�MMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY #he request. - MOTION: F. SCIARRA SECOND: B. LEMiNG AYES: UNANIMOUS H. Request for the implementation of a 'Neighbvrhood Parking Permit P�agram' on both sides of Paim Ave. and Sycamore Ave. between Seranado St. and Swidier St.; both sedes of Swidler St. between Walnut Ave. and Spring St. Melinda Derloshon - 3642 E. Sycarnore Ave. � Orange, CA 92669 � The oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to � your copy. Chairman Yarger opened rth� public hearing for discussion ofi this item. _ ED MARSH - 404 N. JAMES ST. �- tt's not just the parking it's the working on . the cars, sleeping in the cars, staying in #heir cars for an extended period of time, oil messes they leave, �s time goes on the parking gets worse and � worse. On James St., which t would like to have added to the request, at first it wasn't a problem for Us it �rvas around �the corner, but now there are 3 and 4 cars regularly parking at our end ofi James St. and one has been there,for 2-3 days, this is happening every night. You mentioned the social problems earlier but it does have an affect. � . 12 ,. � ' � MELINDA DERLQSHON - 642 E. SYCAMORE AVE. - Our probiem seems to have �ot�� c��,�� have onl� lived in the neighborhood 4 years but ! have been #amiliar wilth th� neigh�ar�ood for many years. In addition to the overnight � _ ��c��g, cars are left i� disrepair, 1 have come home after 10 p.m. .on Sunda�.� night and h�ve been unabte to park in front of my fiome !'ve had to . , park around the corner and ! don't park in my dr�veway anymore because with the vehicles parked on the street 1 can't see when backing out, !'ve � : almost be�en hit 3 times. The police have been out wi#h radar working the area on several accasions. We also have a seasonal p�obiem with parking - from Fred Kelfy Stadium for a!! the +�vents; just the other:day when I was g�r��a�ing in my front yard I discovered a 6=pack of beer waiting for - � s��eon+� atte�ding graduation ceremonies at the stadium to be picked-up, people urinate on my 1awn, that .kind of problem. 1 want #o be able to park -in front of my home and I don't want to waik a long way because i live here and t don't� feei it's safe. The majority of the cars are there a couple of days and then move, we call the police regularly for �enforcement of parked cars � over the tegal time limit and they send a tow truck out, etc. Most of the -parking problem seems to be concentrated down on the one end and ifi there is something we can do besides a permit parking prQgram that will adleviate � th�s_�problem I think that's great, but something has to be �ione. . _ CHAIRMAN YARGER - We have a newty adopted city-wide Street sweeping _ � , program that when implemented wi!! be another de#errent #�r abandoned vehicles, because they wi01 be towed immediately. �� MELINDA DERLOSHON - Some .of the cars are abandoned but some are just disabled and are parked there for a few days. � . � CHAIRMAN YARGER - That is a public street _so anybody should be entitled to � park there if they so desire, but what we're starting to have h�ppen is . people coming in and saying they want permit parking. We want to have priority over everybody �Ise on a public street. MEUNDA DERLOSHON - If you could come up with another solution .that would be great, but I would like to be able to park where 1 live. , COMMISSIONER LEMING - �Jne thing you have #o keep in consideration.we have to iook at it from the standpoint of traffic, we are only charged with a , certain responsibility and some people are requesting us to solve a social - problem, and th;s is not the group that do that. - . 13 * B�ERNIE DENNIS - The concept of pecmit parking was created to mitigate : solvable p,robiems. This problem is that it was never intended to be used in . a residents versus residents situation. �It was set up to be used in regard to Chapman Coilege wh�re the parking was avaJlab/e but the users were not in . the parking facilities. It wasn`t convenient enough. The permit parking forc�d that problem to resoive itself, that's one good exampie. The second go�d example of permit parking working the way it shouid, is out off _ W. Chapman Ave. near UCI Medical Center - a perfectly good parking lot underutiiized because it was far more convenient for the users in that area � - to park on the street, again an institutionai type use. The permit parking _ went into effie�t and the folks #hat were �abusing #he on-street parking - - pr�vilege moved :into an available parking facility. �JVe fiave 3 situations where it's not correctable. We have an apartment complex that we have a problem with, that's not news to either you or us. Those apartments do not _ � have public streets, if they were it wouid be -an entirely different situation, � � you wouldn't have a gate at one end and you wouldn't have an interna� parking permit program. We don't monitor that so we're in a situation where whatever the Commission recommends or #he Council does it won't � be solving any problem. Do you think that if we posted this that this problem would go away? !t's not resolved, it just moves over to someone else's neighborhood. ' JtJEL CHANTRY - 384 N. SWIDLER ST. - The bigges�t problem is �unday . evenings. Monday marning 1 counted 15 cars that did not belong to the _ - people between Sycamore and Spring in that 2 block area, and the others are cars that come back all the time. We did not have a parking problem until you allowed a permit parking program in front of the apartments on Prospect St. and also the permit parking in the tract across from the - apartments. Maybe a possibility of 'N0 OVERNIGHT PARKING WITHOUT A � PERMIT' would work. CHAIRMAN YARGER - What was the rationafe behind aur decision when we took the parking offi N. Prospect� COMMISSIONER LEMING - We have alot of construction �oing� on in that area and we were concerned abaut safety. � BERNIE DENNIS - Prospect St. is being realigned. We took the parking off Prospect St. in front of the apartments #or two reasons: �� ' e , �i 1.) �fi�n a�+re +�pen �he .str�et with the new alignment and the instailation of t�� ew signa�� rnre �re �o��g to stripe Prospect for 4 lanes - 2 lanes in +�� d��t�er+� �nd a ��ft-�#e�� . �'#�at wi11 carry dawn to the existing � channelization south of �i�apman Ave. At some point in time, not in the near future, it's , very likely that the parking �vil� be taken off all of Prospect St. but tfiat is about f-7 years awra-��—T.-here=is-a-big-d�-ffer-��G�-in - - the use of the street, if we are successful in developing the Spring-Walnut ti� t�ere would be a much better distribution of traffic within the entire area. _ . 2� �'h� s��ond reason we took parking ofif was because the folks from the apartments were wa�ndering back and forth across the street all over the � place and we didn't want anyon+� �o get killed. Had we done it normaliy, we would have removed the parking after we had the new street instailed. JOE DE SUTTER - Can we get on a priority for #he 'NO PARKING - STREET SwE��tNG' which would be a little heip #o us not having cars sit so i4ng. PAT O°BRIEN - 394 N. JAMES - 1 don't understand why atl the parking ' � st�uctures in the complex have been boarded up, 1 understand that's not a � , pubiic area but it is pushing these peopie out onto the streets. BOB HERRICK - ASST. CITY ATTORNEY - That's in litigation. The structures were � cited as being sub-standard and dangerous and we're in the process ofi litigating a resolution to that�problem, we'te hopeful that will take place very � shortiy. PATTY 0'BRIEN - 394 tv. JAMES ST. - We were informed by someone in the Traffic Dept. that a judge �ecently er�titied the owner of Orange Villa � �partments #o a year extension before he had to initiate renovations to those parking structures. Can't this landlord be made somehow to #oltow � � some sort of $tandards and not rent to so many people? � BOB HERRICK - We are working at staff level, and the Councii is very actively invoived in trying to find a solution to that �robiem. It's not an easy , _. ____ _____ _ __prob_lem.___As_youu_know Sa_nta__Ana just adopted_a_new_ordinance and_before _ _ ____ ____ _______. it even became effective they were in litigation. There are all kinds of issues about state and federat law, we a�e trying to work our way through this problem and find a solution. The CTC can't deal with other aspects of this problem, they can only deal with the parking permit issue before them, but certainly I know th+e City �ouncil is concerned and the more they hear from you the more support they will feel in thsir efforts to try to resolve the problem. - PATTY O'BR1EN - Do we go directly to the Council on 6-25 meeting, is that a the next appropriat� time for us to discuss this? ,�::� • is . � . r . � . . . � � ..i' .�OB HERR�CK - You could bring that up with the Council at any time on oral p:resentations, there is a time at the end of the agenda at every council . meeting. . �ERNIE DENNIS - �7heir i.ssue, regardless , of what the Commission does tappr��re or deny� will go to the City Council, its programmed for the 6-25 - meeting. . �fl8 HERRICK - That's correct, bUt the issues that are not related to the parking can be brought up with the Councii any time, you can cali the Mayor who has aiways made himsetf avaiiable to tatk with residents about problems. � : � �OMMISSTONER LEMING - On 6-25 will this be on the 3:00 session ar the 7:00 - session? � � BOB HERRICK - It's normally on the Consent Calendar which is in the afternoon session. � COMMISSIONER LEMING - You need #o be aware ofi that if you want to discuss it at the Council meeting. , � " BERNIE DENNIS - If the CTC approved the request of the applicants then what �� would happen is we would immediately issue #he petition, now iet's turn , that around and talk about the folks on Prospect who have already done a petition, whatever action CTC takes today will get them.on the agenda for the 6-25 meeting. BOB HERRICK - Correct, the other area request would only get �►n the f-25 agenda if it were denied today. !f it's approved then they still have to go _ through the petition process and then it would come back #o the CTC ane more time before it goes to the Council. BERNIf DENNIS - I think the only thing we would have to do at that point in time is determine if it would be held at the 3:00 or 7:00 meeting under the #ull public hearing process, and I would think probably �he �':00 session. BOB HERRICK - Like I say, the Mayor Mas the authority to put that on the 7:00 agenda if he chooses and it would be appropriate for the CTC to recommend that it be h�ard in the evening, if that is what the CTC feels. , �::. 16 � ` � :E. . � ,��L SCNRECK - 446 N. ,IAMES ST. - My daughter lives down here in Old _ Ta��nrn� �� -�in� ��rr�%t �r�a, ��d � feel it's an invasion af my rights and . � privacy a�d � a�or�� i�� t� pr��ra�, t know w� have a probiem in our � ��i�hb��r��c�d �c�� if �e �idn�� have overnight parking 1 think that might heip. My �daughter had a #amily function of about.�0 peopie on a Saturday; _ she went down to pick up her permits for the event and the woman was very upset because someone else had been down to get � bunch that were � � dated for the those dates on the same streQt so there weren't enough left . �or my daughter. The permit parking does get these cars off the street, but - �� a�r hand you are going to have to live with these restrictions too �nd �f y�o►u hav� a function on a Sunday and you forget to get to city hail by = � 5 p�.m�. a�n Friday - you are out �f luck because city haii is ciosed on weekends. if you could �orr�e up with some other alternative I could .live with that, but it's hard to live with restrictive parking. � CHAIRMAN YARGER - Closes the public hearing and brings it back to the CTC � for further discussion and request for a motion. ` , REC�MMENDATI�N: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the request, and request � that :.this be placed on #he 7 p.m. session of the 5-25-91 City Council . ' meeting. . MOTION: D. YARGER � � : SECOND: B. LEMING �' AYES: UNANIMOUS t. Request for the implementation of a 'Neighborhood Parking Permit Program' on the east s�de of Prospect St. between Almond Ave. and Palmyra Ave.; � both sides of Almond Ave. between �iolet l.n. and Dunas St.; both sides . of Violet Ln., Shasta St. and Dunas St. between Almond Ave. and , Palmyra A�e. and Palmyra Avel.; both sides of Kathleen St. between Chaprnan Ave. and Palmyra Ave.; the north side of Pamyra Ave. between Craig St. and Dunas St.; �nd the south side of Patmyra Ave.. between Craig St. and Prospecfi St. Phil Conzelman 2�5 S. Prospect St. � . Orange, CA 92669 � Oral presentation was based on the written staff r+eport, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for discussion of the request: . � p �• .. � . . . .}^. J�HN DIMITROFF - 191 �PROSPECT ST. - I dispute what he says because �etvrv�� '�U:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. it's 110°�o parked not 75°r6 or 45%, � � ��'r� ,��r1�� ,nd �the corners between Afmond Ave. and Pamyra _ Ave. there's 45 �ars on �he west side of Prospect from Chapman down to . , Pafmyra, �nd on the east side of Prospect between Almond and Paimyra , there are . 1 can't get out vf my driveway -in the mornings � because the cars are parked so tight here. Also, if they have the permits � on N. Prospect St. �hen we shouid have it Yoo, if we can't have �t they shouldn't have it either. � - � � �iA�#�f�,�.� ANDRESE � �219 E. ALMOND - 1 went eround 8nd got a petition in my � own neighborhood. Maybe we don't need the 24 ho�r permit program, but he did not meter the area at the prescribed times of 8:00 p.m. #0 6:00 a.m. which maybe 5:t30 is a little early, but after 8 p.m. you will not find a parking spot on Prospect St., Almond or even down as far as Violet Ln. in the tfiree years i've lived here on Almond my home has been broken into twice and my car once, 1 think that's a littfe extensive for a nice neighborhood, but i would like to see a permit if not aii day at, teast maybe from 10 p.m. to 6 a.rn. because the problem is strictiy after 8 p.m. When the sun goes down we don't know who is out laying in your front yard or in between your homes or wh�ose beer can that is. , ' CHAIRMAN YARGER - Is thece any enforcement in the evenings :in the permit �. parking areas? , - _ SGT. BARRY WEINSTEiN - Around the college area where the problem has been . ,� excessive, because our parking officers are off at 4 p.m., we have the area cars and motorcycie officers available until 8 p.m., the regutar patrol officers in cars work 24 hours and they go around the permit parking areas when they can. The problem we have is that with the number of officers we have the number of accidents that occur in the later evening hou�s and the number o# cails the officers receive there isn`# alot of time to go around and check permit parking areas, it is a lower priority compared to a burglary or _ traffic accident, so we need community involvement as much as possible. �HAIRMAN YARGER - Do we have an Qrdinance yet for 'NO PARKING - T�W AWAY.� � BOB HERRICK - Yes it was adopted 6-11-91 and will be effective in 30 days. BERNIE DENNIS - Keep in mind that if that area were posted from 10 p.m. until 6 a.m. or any combination thereof, you're also impacted by that posting - you could not park on your street. , �,::. �8 : d. , { - M�L��► ��.(�SHON - The .City of Anaheim has a 'NO PARKlNG �VERNIGHT - _ p�Rnn�T Or��.�`� �vaii�� or��► ��° �e�p�e t�� l;ue in the neighborhood. The city could ticket �� #�►e� ws�� t� but i�°� �� +er�#�r�ed t�� +��, but this ��av►u°� t�� s�d�r�ts ta ca��,�n and say there is a car i� front of my home, it's , midnight, they don't have a resident sticker can you send an officer out to check it out, they they can taw it right away. You wouldn't have to enforce it too much and residents couid park there and you wouidn't have to come out uniess you received a caii, and then �ou couid tow away the � v��#or'� �ehicie. � � - �HAIRMAN YARGER - "TOVtf AWAY' is for everybody, �lou� can't differentiate � betUveen a resident's car versus an o►utsider's vehicle.� � DON BACON - 215 S. PROSPECT - Most nights 1 go out and count the cars on . the streets, i retire for the evening about 10 p.m. and they keep me awake with their taiking a�d slamming car doors, they wake we up in the morning around 5 a.m. The cars park from Chapman ail the way down to Pamyra, the� hang o�Qr iratQ �h�� d�iveways. Most nights there are about 45-50 cars on the west side of the street, and on the e�st side there are about 15-18 � cars. .; This is a pretty consistent pattem. � think we're �n this problem ` becau�e we have a problem in housing, we have a code violation we have p trouble handling. � � f , CAREN BRERETON - 214 S. DUNAS - My Street isn't affected too much by the � parking but we are affected by the traffic. This is a traffic pr�blem as they go through here and steal from all the recycle containers. I've lived here 5 years and I've regretted every day of it because of #he problem from the apactments. � � STEVE ADAMS - 249 � PROSPECT - The streets that are specified in the agenda were specified by the city, we did not :ask for them to be included. � We met with both city and police officials and it was suggested �by them � , that this was our course of action to remedy a� situation we saw as both a � � social and traffic problem. We're here to talk to you about both issues. � The vehicles that have outstanding warrants, can they be towed away? GT. BARRY WEINSTEIN - When you have outstanding tra#fic warrants _for parking viotations the law af the �tate of California no tonger provides for either vehicles to be towed away� nor does it any longer atlow for an arrest � on these violations; they impose sanctions at #he time of registration or driver's licensing, and that can delay receipt of registra#ion/license up to a year or :more. A person with a parking warrant will not receive his driver's license or registration when he gets down to DMV, it does work but it's a little slower pro��ess. . . . � � 19 il 1 STEVE ADAMS - The posting of 'No Parking or Permit Parking' on the north ��w+� �# Prospect behind Aibertson's accoss from the apartments has in fact moved t�r� p��+��t�� ir�tc� the adjacent areas. If we can't have controiled parkin� �h�� I the�l� the o��her areas, shouid have those signs removed � immediately. - PHIL C�NZELMAN - 235 � PROSPECT - ! had #wo roommates that worked � even�ng hours and I wouid have to go out and police the front of the home to p�rovide parking for them. � � LEWIS HERNANDEZ- 205 S. PROSPECT - We're new to the area; the problem on . � l�raspect comes from hard working peopie subjected to a situation that is hard for them to remedy as well. ! think if we couid do some combination of the remedies discussed we might get a solution that will work. If we could create a 'No Overnight Parking - Tow Away' combination with resident permits it might work, we that live on Prospect don't have driveways, we only have rear alley access. Can we create a program that is - monitored and enforced by the residents themselves? � BERtvtE �Etvn►�S - Staff would ask that the CTC handle both of these area in , the same way, spatiality, probler� wise, etc. _ . B0B HERRICK - There is one distinction between these two issues, one has ' _. gone through a petitio�n process and the other has �ot. By denying one there is no prejudice for a further request. � CHUCK GLASS - Since both areas are basically identical in their scenarios, if you were to going to continue this matter keeping in mind we're dark next month, then one action you may wish to consider is to reconsider the Swidler area - define a boundary tonight that should be petitioned - prepare the petition and get it out for circulation and they :have 2 months to get it returned, and that puts both areas on an equal basis. � COMM�SStotvER �EM�tvG - I think the best thing we can do is to go ahead and deny the request and then get this before the City Council on the same agenda as the other request. Then if the City Council doesn't approve the request it doesn't mean staff can't be directed to work on an altemative solution. BERNiE DENNIS - When we go to the Cit�r �ouncil, we make the presentation as it was done here today, but the other xhing we do is to indicate to the Council what the suggestions were, what :the concerns and concepts were on your part and we speak an those. Yes you will be heard, you can attend the meeting and you may speak to the Council yourselves. � . � �.:,: zo � •:�. . :�. BOB HE��x�� r�� th��+� go on the consent caiendar and �re address�d c�r�ly if son��a�� t� t� �p�+e�� , t��t you have �o fill out the � ��r+� ��c�u�s�� i��n t� be pu11�d from the c��erat �c�lendar and heard . _ separately so you can address it. , - �HAiRMAN YAR�ER - Cioses the public hearing and asks for a motion. � #�ECC?MMENDATION: That the GTC, by Motion, DENY the request; and - ��rr�,�t to t�a�� thi� item h�ard at the 7 p.m. session of the Councii meeting. . � MOTION: D. YARGfR . SECOND: N. HOWER � AYES: UNANIMOUS IV. ORAL PRESENTATIONS 6 J. �"h��e being no members of the pubiic wishing to address the City Traffic : , �ommission, and no further�discussion c�f any other business by members of • the Commission or staff, Chairman Yarger adjourned the meeting at 7 p.m. . . . Respectfully submitted, � � . , L5 �J►1— � Phy ' Ti�en _ Recording Secretary . , � _ . . . - � , �-:::: a . • 21 �, �, - � . � � � 0 _ - � . . . . . .. .. y:::. �