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09-11-1991 - Minutes TC r � CITY OF ORANGE MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING ' C!�'Y �°�c,�F�� G�1'VIM15�tON DATE OF MEETING: ��PTEMBER 11, 1�91 ROLL CALL: PRESENT- COMMISSIONNERS: D. YARGER, J. FORTIER, F. SCIARRA, N. HOWER, B. LEMiNG PRESENT - STAFF: B. DENNlS, B. HERRICK, C. GLASS, B. WEINSTEIN, � ` D. ALLENBACH, P. THEN � I. CC)iV�EN`f CI��E�VDA� - 1 . Req�r��t for installation of 7 Hour parking on the west side of First St. north of Chapman Ave. Eric M. Bogart TOGO'S Eatery - 30�1 E. �Cha�man Ave. Orange, CA J2G69 €�ECaMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the request. � MOTION: B. LEMING SECOND: F. SCIARRA t AYES: UNANIMOUS 2. Request for the installation of time /imit parking at 414 N. Glassell St. Joseph M. Cervantes, M.D. Cervant+es Institute 410 N. Glassell �t. Orange, CA 92666 RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the request. MOTI�N: B. LEMING SECOND: F. SCtARRA � AYES: UNANIMOUS 3. Request for the installation of red �curb markings at the business complex at 750 & �58 N. Ba�avia St. Teri B. Csiszer River Rock Co. 758 N. Batavia St., #J Orange, CA 92668 - � , RECOMMENDATtON: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE the request. 11I�OTt��1: B. LEMING SECOND: F. S+��€�� - AY�S: �1111ANIMOUS 4. Request for the installation of an intersection vision zone at Riverboat Way and Cottonwood St. Skip McGowan 2932 N. �ottonwood St., #10 - Q�ra�g�R, �� 92�6C5 �3r�1 presentatir�� was based on the written �taff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for discussion: � SKIP MC GOWAN, 2932 N. COTTONWOOD ST. #10 - My original request was because of blocked vision and in addition to this request I would like to additionally request a driveway vision zone, D�,VE ALLFNBACH - We are willing to go along with the 30-35 ft. red curb at the intersection, however, we were unaware the proponent wanted vision . zones at other driveways. We have no problem doing that but we should probably notify the people who live in those areas fir5t. I would re�commend that you approve the installation of the intersection vision zone and perhaps continue the driveway vision zone one month so we can have time to notify people who live around those driveways. RECOMMENDATION: Approve as recommended by staff. Additionally, that we notify the people in the area on the driveway vision zones and continue that for 30 days. MOTION: D. YARGEfi SECOND: N. HOWER � AYES: UNANIMOUS 5. Request for the installation of a driveway vision zone on the east side of the driveway at 245 E. Lincoln Ave. Lloyd Gole 227 E. Lincoln Ave. Orange, CA 9266a RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE the request. MOTION: B. LEMWG SECOND: F. SCIARRA � AYES: UNANIMOUS 2 , it. CO�ISIDERATION ITEMS � A. Request for the instaliation of an ,��a��sectia� r��rn ��z,� a� Meats Ave. and N. Pine St. � 4�1'iliiam E.. Weiis 21�� . �'ine St. Orange, C� 9�fi�5 Oral presen��r� �� a�ed c�r� �1�� written staff report, please refer to your co�y. Chairman Y�r�er �pened the public h�aring far discussion: William Walk�er�2��0 N. Pine St. - I had some follow-up questions fram last . � m��n��'� rrae�ting. Ar� �th�� an� br�aks in the hedge? Yes there are some break� but they don't actuaily �el� the vision because the angle you approach the intersection the hedges still block vision. It was stated that 35 ft. would take up the whole area, when in fact there would be 30 ft. � parking left available, plus parking on Pine St. and the driveway for the owner at 721 Meats. Th�re are 30 homes accessed by Pine St. who have sign�d this p�r�tition who suppart the intersec`tion vision.zone. � COMMISSIONER FC��TIER - I have observed where the proposed 35 ft. of red ��rk� �� o be installed and the hedge there really dominates the area where � anybc�dy wis�ing to park there wouldn't be able to open the passenger door ; anyway. - MAXINE STAUMP. 721 E. Meats Ave. - I have a petition from my neighbors • who support my contention that 35 ft of red curb isn't necessary. There is an alley on Pine St. and across the street there is a fire hydrant and 2 driveways and this limits the available on-street parking down to one car only. I am requesting that you compromise.and reduce the amount of red �vrb down from 35 ft. COMMISSIONER SCIARRA - The requested vision zone was made because of the possible danger that exists to motorists exiting Pine St. onto Meats and in the past 3-4 years there have been no accidents at this location, nor or there that many cars coming out of Pine St. so it would appear that possibly . a vision zone may not be necessary here. Yaur ordinance does not state that the vision zone has to be of any specific length. B0B HERRIC, ASST. CITY ATTORNEY - I will be happy to give an interpretation of the ordinance after I have read it through, it will take a #ew minutes. , 3 RECOM1Wil�t�t)AT�t)�: Tf�� e tab�e� t�i� ��ern �e�r the �ime 6��g to allaw the Asst. City Attorney an opportur��ty #� r��ew t�� rdinance, and we continu� with o�her i�e�ns v�� odays �genda and then return to this issue. MQTION: B. LEMING SECOND: F. SCiARRA AYES: UNANIMOUS CH�iR�IIAi� Ypi�GER - R�econvened this item with a response by Asst. City _ Attorney Bob Herrick. ` ASST. CITY ATTORNE� BOB HERRICK - �'ve looked at the ordinance and it talks - in �t�� t�r�s a►f the ��proximate length of the intersection vision zone shall be; so we have both a term that implies some flexibility and a mandatory term in the same sentence. I think that there probably is some discretion on the part of the Commission, but I would caution the Comrr�ission that in exercising any discretion they wanted to make this ordinance and these . numbers were arrived at through some sort of process of determining what . would be effect�ve and I think that the Commission would need to rely on �v4��nce a� to t�e �ffectiveness of the length of the vision zone and I think � our experts on that would be the Traffic staff and they could teil you whether or not reducing it by any number of feet would render it ineffective, - in which case the city would be from a liability point of view better off not having it at ali. � COMMISSIONER LEMING - When it comes to these vision zones and we talk abou� d�iv+eway zones versus an intersection zone, I would imagine that the speed limit along �he road would have a reference of how far you want a vision zone, so 1 assume that if it's a 25 MPH speed limit versus 45 MPH you would need a longer vision zone for the higher speed? BERNIE DENNIS - There are 2 relationships for an infiersection vision zone. � That is the width of the street and the speed of the approaching traffic. We use the criteria that it takes 4 secQnds for a vehicle to cross 2 travel lanes (half �the width of a secondary arterial high:way), converting 40 MPH to feet- per-second is a multiple of 1.476 so the vehicle going 40 MPH is travelling 59 ft. a second (round off �to 60 ft.y you would need 240 ft. of sight distance for a vehicle stopped on Pine St. to safely traverse the two traffic lanes that he would be in conflict with (those would be the 2 on his immediate left). WILLIAM WALKER - The statement was made that there's not that many cars that actually travel on Pine. There are 25 houses in this area with 2 cars each and I think that's alot of traffic each day. Another fact is that there is spring and fall Little League so there is year round athletic events utilizing the park so this vision zone is necessary here. 4 _ i j CHAIRMAN YARGER - Closes the public hearing and brings the item back to the Commission for further discussion and/of a motion. �OMMISSIONER ��RTiER - � �av� alot of signatures for and against this vision zone and staff has indicated that there is a need for this vision zone because _ a danger does exist. RECOMMEIVDATION: That we accept staff's recommendation and APPROVE the : request to install 35 ft. of red curb. MOTION: J. FORTIER - SECOND: F. SCIARRA AYES; FORTIER - YARGER - SCIARRA - HOWER - NC)ES; LEMING B. Request for an adult school crossing guard at the intersection of Shaffer St. and Wilson Ave. Orlan Grunktee 1126 N. Shaffer St. . Orange, CA 92667 � Qral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your LL eopy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for discussion: � BARBARA GRUNKLEE. 1126 N. Shaffer St. - I live about 2 houses from that corner and the school children are crossing at various points along Shaffer and most of the time in my driveway. My concern is Shaffer St. seems to be �re�y heavily travelled :and I'm afraid one will be hit. COMMISSIONER FORTIER � In my observation of this location I have to agree with Mrs. Grunklee: The one problem I have is that the traffic guard would be down on Wilson Ave. and I would like us to approve the motion but look at how the children are using that crossing guard and I would also like to be informed when that guard is installed so I can contact the principal of Galifornia School and help her realize that she needs �to "in service" the kids that they don't cross at Adams anymore, and they she physically have sameone down there for awhile because kids have patterns and to heck with the crossing guards, and so you have to tell the kids that there is a crossing guard and they are not going to cross anywhere else and if they do th�re ar� going to be certain penalties. BER�t� C��n�� Ilrs. Grunklee, yoW live on the west side of Sha#fer south of Wilson, and these kids use your driveway, what would you feel about us putting in a concrete pad and relocating th�t crosswalk, it would actually be a sidewalk extension through your parkway? - 5 k BARBARA GRUNKLEE - I wouidn't have a problem with that as long as we're not responsible for anything. BERNIE DENNIS - You would not be respca�s�b��e for the �ost� a�d you w�uld certainly profit from it for the sampl� r+eason that wh�en peaple park at your curb they wauld hav�e som��f�ere to p�rk r�ther #han your parkwayo BARBARA GRUNKLEE - That would vrrQrk because when the kids are standing in the driveway �nd I'm wanting to enter my driveway 1 can't bec�use there is � � a whole fiamily of kids, parents and strollers and they jus�t stare at me and won't move out the way. � COMMISSIONER FORTIER - Maybe we could put the crosswalk in at Adams rather than where it is locat�d nQw (Wilson), I observe kids coming down the street and 1'�r nc�t sure t�� i�s wi11 go down and cross at Wilson and then �vrralk back to get to the �chool and that's not what I see, they go down Shaffer and get out of the sight of the crossing guard and then they cross in the middle of the block. ELLEN JOHNSON. 1034 N. Shaffer St. - We have had chronic problems with speeding motorists along our street. B�Ri�IE DENNI� - VV� wo�ld be perfectly willing to install handicapped ramps � a� both corners of Wilson and Adams, so that wherever we finally end up with the crossing guard it will make it easier for crossing but that is a sizeable investment so before we do that we want to approve the guard and determine which is the best location. I think you will also see a modulating affect with the traffic speed on Shaffer with the presence of a guard, it tends to work that way. CHAIRMAN YARGER - Closes the public hearing and brings the item back to the � Commission for further discussion and/or a motion. RECOMMENDATION: To accept staff's recommendation and APPROVE the request; and Commissioner Fortier will contact California School principal to have a staff inember present to enforce the students use. MOTION: J. FORTIER SECOND: B. LEMING � AYES: UNANIMOUS 6 � � , � C. Re uest fior the im lementation ofi a nei hborhood arkin ermit ro ram � q P 9 P 9p P 9 , � or� the south side of the 300 block of E. Maple Ave. Lind� L+�rr��rski 32Q E. Maple Ave. Or,ange, CA 92fi�� _ Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. There was no discussion on this item. � RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE the request. MfJT�ON: J. fORTIER � SECOND: B. LEMING AYES: UNANIMOUS D. Request for an adult school crossing guard at the intersection of Newport Blvd. and Canyon View Ave. - �Vorman C. Guith, Superintendent C�range Unified School District . 370 N. Glassell St. � Orange, CA 92666 �ral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your � copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for discussion: COMMiSSIONER FORTIER - There is alot of new growth in that area and although maybe 7 or 10 kids are crossing now I am sure there are alot of new homes that people are moving into, and within the next few weeks you may see alot more kids crossing there. BERNIE DENNIS - In his letter to the Police Dept. your superintendent indicates that there are 70-80 students living in the atfiendance area who wi11 have the option of attending Chapman Hills School; is it your experience that as the school year progresses this option will be exercised by more kids, is that normally what happens? , COMMISSIONER FORTIER - Not it's not, normally once an option is exercised � and the parents do that the first day of school, �nd it stays that way, they don't switch 3 weeks later. COMMISSIONER LEMING - How many children are we talking about, 6 or 7? DAVE ALLENBACH - So far the maximum number of children who were ' observed crossing has been 7, and this has been in the afternoon around 3 o'clock. ; � COMMISS(ONER FORTIER - Why is there a temporary crossing guard at this location now? SGT. BARRY WEINSTEIN - The placing of a crossing guard was on a temporary basis to monitor that situation in accordance to the request from the school superintendent and it was done for a one week time period. I have given _ the results to staff. BERNIE DENNIS - This really is not an unusua) situation, during the course of most school years and certainly in new ares where we even think there might be a problem we have, historically, put temporary guards on scene until we can evaluate it from our own perspective and either bring it to the � either the Traffic Commission, or take whatever action is appropriate. COMMISSIONER SCIARRA - Would it be proper then if we went ahead and did approve a crossing guard then on a temporary basis or would it have to be on a permanent basis? BERNIE DENNIS - The guard be approved on a temporary basis generally relative to school semesters. At the end of the first school semester or perhaps the end of the first school year, if either the combination of vehicles or the pedestrian crossings has not picked up then the Commission can . exercise its prerogative and removes the guard. By the same token you have perhaps the best of both worlds because while this growth is taking , place you have the presence ofi the guard being there. CHAIRMAN YARGER - Closes the public hearing and returns the item �to the Comrnission for further discussion and/or a motion. RECOMMENDATION: That we APPROVE the request for a crossing guard at the intersection of Newport Blvd. and Canyon View Ave. on a temporary basis, and calendar this for review after the spring semester of 1992. COMMISSfONER LEMING - Please explain how this affects our criteria for school crossing guards when down the road we get anoth�r request? BERNIE DENNIS - This is a discretionary thing, we have criteria but that is subjective to your opinion as to what you judge to their best ability as to whether we should do this or not. Every time we approve one af these that don't meet our minimum criteria you can bet there will be another request made down the Iine. MOTION: F. SCIARRA SECOND: B. LEMING AYES: UNANIMOUS 8 E. Request to prohibit on-street parking on both sides ofi Batavia St. between the Southern Pacific Railroad and Taft Ave. Git� �f C�range . Tr�ffic Engineerin� Llivisc�n Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your - � copy. There was no discussion on this item. �EC4MMENDATION: That we accept staff's recommendation and APPROVE the rec�est to prohibit on-street parking on both ides of Batavia St. between the South�rn Pacifie Railroad and Taft Ave. - _ MOTION: B. LEMING � SECOND: F. SCIARRA AYES: UNANIMOUS tlt. ORAL PRESENTATIONS J. Public Participation - At the conclusion of the meeting of items listed on this Agenda, members of the public may address the City Traffic Commission . regarding items of interest to the public that are whin the subject jurisdiction , of the City Traffic Comrnission. ,, WILUAM WALKER - On the request for an intersection vision zone on Meats � and Pine; I don't think the 35 ft. is a solution to the probfem, it's a problem all the way down to Cambridge and I would like to see you install a vision zone of 50 - 60 ft. BERNlE DENNIS - Based on what authority do you think the 35 ft. is not enough? WILLIAM WALKER - This is a personal opinion. What can we do to extend this even further? BERNIE DENNIS - You could request that extension be made through the Traffic Cammission. But I would suspect further that you should back that up with something other than supposition. COMMISSfONER LEMING - If you come back requesting 60 - 90 ft. of red curb that opens the whole issue again and it's entirely possible that a decision could be made to give you nothing. 9 9 � , i � � ' � �,; I!/. ADJOURNMENT �411 business before the City Traffic Commission being concluded, and no � � further members of the public wishing to address the Commission, Chairman Yarger adjo�urned the meeting. Respectfully submitted, Phyllis Then Recording Secretary 10