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08-12-1992 - Minutes TC .-�.�, � �>C..:��:;,. , � CITY OF ORANGE - �~-, MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION DATE OF MEETING: AUGUST 12�1992 ROLL CALL: PRESENT - COMMISSIONERS: D. YARGER, J. FORTIER, N. HOWER, B. LEMING, F. SCIARRA PRESENT - STAFF: B. DENNIS, C. GLASS, D. ALLENBACH, P. THEN, S. O�TOOLE ABSENT - STAFF: B. HERRICK, SGT. B. WEINSTEIN I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES May 13, 1992 - �PxovE as published by Recording Secretary. MOTION: J. FORTIER SECOND: B. LEMING AYES: UNANIMOUS 7une 10, 1992 - ArPxovE as published by Recording Secretary. MOTION: D. YARGER SECOND: J. FORTIER AYES: ITNANIIvfOUS II. CONSENT CALENDAR l. Review of City Traffic Commission Annual Activity Report for the 1991-92 Fiscal Year. RECOMIvIENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE& FILE the report. MOTION: `D. YARGER SECOND: N. HOWER AYES: UNANIMOUS . 2 2. Request for the installation of an 'EMERGENCY VEHICLE� parking space in �ront of the Chapman University Student Health Center on-Sycamore Ave, Jackie Brodsky, R,N. Chapman University Student Health Center Orange, CA 92666 RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, ArPxovE the installation of 30 ft. of white curb �.nd 'EMERGENCY PARHING ONLY' Signs. MOTION: D. YARGER SECOND: N. HOWER AYES: I7NANIlVIOUS 3. Request for the installation of driveway vision zones a�4709 &4715 W. Chapman Ave. Raymond L. Sal�atore, D.C. Tom Taung 4709 W. �Chapman Ave. Spicy Thai Restaurant Orange, CA 92b68 4715 W. �hapman Ave. Orange, CA 92668 RECOl�!Il1�IENDATION; That the CTC, by Motion, APPRflVE the request. MOTT�N: D. YAR�ER , SECON'D: N, HflWER � AYES; I1NAI�TIMOUS �II. CUNSID�I�ATIOl�T ITElV�S A. Y2equest f�r the ir�stallation of 'N4 STQPPING ANYTIl�IE-TOW AWAY' restnctions on both sides of Lawson Way between Town & Country Rd. and the south city limits. Traffic Engineering Division Or�nge Police Dep�. -Traffic Bureau City of Orange Oral presentation is based on th� written staff report, please refer to your cop�. Chairman Yarger open,�ed the public hearing for the following discussion of this request. Joan Himes, :�.100�V. Town & Country Rd• - I was expecting more of an explanation as to the adding of the..�ane on Lawson Way. T was told it was because of a major development that �2. would be built`:�ext to Polly's Pies. I have been parking my car on Lawson for 2 years now, . I work in the Tishman Bldg. and can't afford to park in the parking garage, however, i can understand widening the road or increasing the lanes for this project which will take 1-3 years to built and Y'rn hoping that you�,���a��"this until the traffic warrants it. I'm here every day and the traffic doesn't warrant it; th��peo��e going in and out of the Tishman Bldg. are pushy, they take wide turns to get into there, if the want to use the postal�drop-boxes on the far side of the street they cross over and as it is there is a v�ery small amount of parking on that road anyway, . just enough for $ vehicles in the block that approximates the Tishman Bldg. I think it's too soon to make that decision and i'd like to see it delaye�. 3 Bernie Dennis - Your point regarding the development that you refer to as Po11y's Pies is conect, that's known as the Shimizu development in the City of Santa Ana. Basically what's going to happen is that the environmental review process is nearing compl.etion now and in a11 likliehood within a �ear they will issue the building permits for the first phase of their project which, in �round figures, is about a 250,000 to SOO,OOU sq. ft. depending upon what the composition of their development is. We know for sure that the first phase of their development will include a housing element and there will be a number of multi-level, multi- story condominium units fronting on Lawson and on Owens in the corner parcel. Ther� will also be at least 200,000 - 250,000 commercia� develapment and, if the City of Santa Ana has their way, a relatively large size office/professional tower, the latter is somewhat unlikely now as T'm sure you are aware, the area is somewhat over-built in office/professional space now much less a 28 story building's worth. 'That's one area of development and that would be the first phase of at least a 3-5 phase development ultimately resulting about 1,500,�000 to 1,750,�00 sq. ft, of development. 'Son of Tishman', as we call it, �vhich is the brother of the building you work in, the building perrnits were issued on that 3 years ago. Joan Himes - T �vatched them dig the hoYe. Bernie De�nnis - They move the dirt back and forth year to year to keep their building permit acti�e, but rumor i� that this new buildi.ng w�11 come on-line in the not to� distant future. Perhaps the most pressing issue ir� regard to pr4viding som� additional capaGity on Lawson, and one that I think Chuck alluded t�, is the inter�eptor sewer job that's under way now. The sewer dep�h is such thati ParkerlOwens will be increment,�l�y �losed during the cnurse of this ' constru�tion as i� moves down. We have a xather significant �equirement xhat this sewer job be +ccamplete before the l�ain St.1I-5 Fwy.. Bridge closes d4wn. As soon as the work is � complete on the SR-�2lSR-�7/I-5 interchange the "Crush", literally when that is complete then Main St. and the I-5 Fwy. is going to be stopped for 3 years. The �.ternate route is going to be Brc�adway - l�wens/Park�r - �wson - Main. Although i� may look prernature to remove parking at this point in time it re;a.�.ly isn't. Joan I3imes-I don't see that anything invokved with the parking rem,oval other than the time it takes to post the signs and add�, stripe, which coulri be done in a matter of days once the time arriv�s. I'm asking that you wait to the last minute to do this parking�removal. Bernie Dennis - We can do that. Chairman Yar�er - Closes the public hearing and returns the item to the Commission for further discussion and/or a motion. RECOD�IlV�NDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, AppRovE the request. MOTION: °�. LEMING , SECOND: =F. SCIARRA . AYES: UN�►NIMOUS ,� . >� 4 � B. Request for 'red curb' markings and turn restrictions on Spring St. at El Modena High School. Gail Richards, Principal El Modena High School 3920 Spring St. Orange, CA 92669-3599 , Commissioner Fortier- What are the measures that the school district has commited to? Chuck Glass - Essentially it would be the gates, the traffic patterns within the school area, along with the installation of the necessary pavement markings, and also the establishment of the passenger loading zon�in that designated area. RECOMMENDATION: Thati the CTC, by Motion, ApPRovE the request, subject to the Orange Unified School District imple�n�enting their commitments. MO�'ION: B. LE11iIIN�G SEGOND: F. SCIARRA A�ES: UNANIlV�OUS �. Request for the installation �f an 'All-Way s�rop' at the intersection �f Serrano Ave. and Yellowstone Blvd, Annette U'Rer� � Cardinal Property�Vl�nagement, Inc. � 1'7821 E. 17th St., 5u�te 2'70 Tustiny CA 9�680 Oral repo�t is based on the v�r�tten sta�f report, please refer to your copy. There was no discussion an this item, RECOI��VViENDATiQN� �hat the CTC, by Motion, �rRovE the request. MOTION: D. YARGER SECOND: N. �IOWER AYES: UNA'NTMOUS D. Request to reconsider the installation of an 'All-Way sTop' at the intersection of Canyon View Ave. and Notre Dame St.lRaven Ct. .,: Traffic Engiri�ring Division City of Orar�ge�_- Dave Alienbach -Approximately.2.years ago this intersection was approved for a traffic signal � and was placed on the Signal Prip�ty��:List. This is a request to reconsider the intersection with regards to putting in an 'All Way:ws�oP' in advance of signalization. We have re-studied the intersection. � � Over the past z year period traffic volume on Canyon View has increased at a regular rate, in � � 1990 when the intersection was studied the average volume was 3,300 vehicies, b� 1991 that voiume had increased to 4,700 vehicies and today we are averaging approx. 1,500 vehicles 5 daily for both east and westbound directions on Canyon View. Raven Ct. and Notre Dame, however, are both local residential streets and are built-out. Traffic has increased only approx. 12-13 vehicles a day over the last 2 year period, it is not expected to increase over that amount since both tracts are completely built-out at this time. We have reviewed the accident history at this intersection for the past 2 year period and found that there have been 4 re+corded accidents that have accurred and 3 were DUI's, and 1 of those 3 occurred within the intersection and the others were auto vs. fixed objects, the 4th accident involved a vehicle that backed out of a driveway and hit a parked vehicle and in our opinion there is not an accident problem here at the present time. The proponent has sta.ted that he feels a s'roP sign would be useful in controlling speed, however, we do not xecommend installing sTOP signs with the intent�on of controlling speed. s'roP signs are designed to assign right-of-way and correct a. right-of-way problem which does not apparently exist here. I would �ike to point out that based solely on n�mbers the intersection does marginally meet the warrants for an 'All-Way sTo�', which could be installed sin�e this intersec#ion is sc�eduled to be:signalized in the near future. Chairman Yarger - +�pened the public hearing for discussion of this item. Mark Cam�beli - 162 Longs�ur - Distributed photos of Canyor�View traffic Yeaving Raven Ct. and from Canyon View af�the approac� to Raven Ct. There zs al.ot of conge$tion here every rno�aring and it's very �iifficult to se� oncoming traffic when trying to make a turn out of Raven c�nto Canyon View, �ither left or right. Chairman Yarg�r - Closed the public hearing and returned. t�e itern to the Commissioners f4r ' thier discussio�and/or a motion. Commissioner Lemin�-�Vhat is the distance that you can see coming t�ut of Raven? Chairman Yarger � What seems to be the problem, coming out and making a left turn? Mark Campbell - Left and right turns both. Commissioner Lemin� -�Iow many �omes�re on Raven Ct.:� 1Vlark Carn�bell - There are 24 on the othe� side and 12 on our side. Alot of people coming out of Notre Dame because i�s a gated community up and beyond it there are 200 300 homes. Chairman Xar�er -Is that the only gate? Mark Cam�bell- No there's one down at the light. Chairman Yarger - They actually have one of their gates for entering and exiting at a traffic signal, don't they? Mark Camnbe�.l�- Yes. Chairman Yar�- This is a request for a controlled sTOP for 36 homes. Apparently the sight distance is more than the curb radius,..is it the wa11 there? Mark Cam�bell - There are a cauple�of big walls there. It's a pretty sharp radius and at the same time it's a really steep hill.�� ��V� � �� . : Chairman Yar�er -What's the feasibility of putting in a right-turn only lane and maybe cutting the curb back to give them a lane to exit and a little more room to get out? � 6 Bernie Dennis - Similar to what's in place on Nohl Ranch Rd. where the #21ane is moved out allowing the sTOP bar on the cross street to be moved out concurrently to increase the sight distance? Chairman Yar�er- Yes. Bernie Dennis - It could be done. VVe can prepare a geometric layout of that and show it to the Commission if they wish. Chairman Yar� - Why don't we continue this over and give the staff a chance to see if we can rnove the line a little bit for better sight distance and maybe restrict them to right-turn only when exiting. Marl� Cam�bell - Nobody would let you do that, they are making left turns all day long going to th� shopping center over the hill (has other comments that are incoherent as he is not speaking at the podiurn). Commissioner Lemin� - I'm concerned with the two homeowners cYosest to the corner, I �vould think that on a hill that would ha�re to s�oP you're going to increase your noise, pollution. Mark Campbell - We talked �tbout that a� a11 our meetings and taking it a11 into consideration and in ta.lking �o Dave this m4rning and he said that in the long run a light wauld be the best thing to keep everything fiowing. (several o�her comments that are incohrent as he is not speaking .from a michro�hone) �ommissioner Lemin� , We should con�inue t�s and °see if we can do something with xh.e ' vision especially v�ith the north side of the street, it doesn't seem to be a problem from the so�th side. As far as the speed I think that's a problern ta be address�d by t�e P41ice with a little more visibility in tihe area from time to t�me. � Bernie Dennis - Th�problerr�s are the entry monuments (wa11). Mark Cam�►bel� -There's a sTo� sign up there and �TOP sign where we are and � light already at the gated comrnur�ity. Chairman Yarger - We can't put a STOP light or a STOP sign at every street, we'd never get any tsaffic through. Mark Cam�bell - That's why I'm saying a sTOP sign, I've been working for a light for 4 years and you promised me a light. I understand about the budget. Chairman Yarger- Then you're stopping everybody. � Commissione� Leming - I would continue to push for a traffic signal at least that way during certain hours �t would keept the traffic moving, where a 4-Way sTOP would �nake everybody have to stop. ��J� Mark �am�bell - iVlaybe you can do something about the visibility. Chairman Yarger - 'We're not�getti�ig anywhere so I think we should continue this item a month and let Traffic Engineeri���g do some�more survey and see if there is a possibility of moving the lanes a little bit more to provide sight adjustments. i don't know if there is anything that can be done about the monuments it might be too late for that. . Bernie Dennis - I would like to suggest that Mr. Campbell run this by his homeowner's association, you're bouncing back and forth, 1et's do it that way. � � Mark Campbell - Can we continue on the light, are they still going in? � Chairman Yarger - That's out of our hat�ds, Mark Campbell - How did they get s'roP signs put in up the street there and not�n ours? Bernie Dennis - Canyon View is comprised of 10 different sub-divisions. During the course of the Canyon View development we did sorne projections and determined where we were going to need trafffic control and their approximate time-frame. We knew going in that we were going to have to control the intersection of Canyon View and Chapman; we knew that the first intersection southerly of Chapman was in the wrong place, it wasn't where staff wanted it, it got there otherwise. So we knew when we signalized that location we would have to include also the entry to the Baldwin tract�o rnake that signal work sufficiently. �'he next location that through projection and modeling �hat we deterrnined control would be required was at the top of the hill, and that was done for 2 reasons: 1) To provide an �access at that location commensurate with what the traffic dernancl was going to be; and 2) As an alternative to using if �ou wind back dovcwn through there as an al.ternative to using the Chaprnan access to the same area, and if yc�u're farniliar with th�at I think you will agree that it makes your problem look like a piece of cake. The 3rd alternative traffic control point was on down toward Newport and we never envisionecY one at you� location, from a straight traffic volume persp�ctive. Mark Campbell - All I �now is that people are flying down that hill and it's hard to get out. Bernie Dennis - We're not trying to ignore you, �ve''re trying to com� up with something that , wi11 wor�for everybody involved. Chairman Yarger - '�V�'ve got to get mo�ing on, we're going to have to continue this for a . mon�h and c�rne bacl� with ar� �alternative plan for improved sight visibility until the traffic signal that has been promised far that street the money is avai�able. Mazk Cam�bell -'W�en is the light due in no�v? Bernie Dennis - �At le,ast two years, maybe longer, depending on what happens. REC4MII�NDATION. That the CTC, by Motion, CONrIlv[� this item until the 9-9-92 meeting ta giYe Traffic Engineering a chance to review this and see if they can do anything with lane adjustment to give better sight exiting the street. MOTION: D. YARGER SECOND; B. LEMING AYES: UNANIMOUS E. Request for tI%e installation of red curb markings on Shaffer St. between Wilson Ave. and Katella Ave. ��� � .'.. 1 ,.. Victor iversen � . 719 E. Hoover Ave. � � Orange, �A 92667 � �v� �� 'Y� � Chairman Yarger - Opened the public hearing for discussion of this request. Vic Iversen, 719 E. Hoover - Distributed photos of area depicting problem created by the palm trees on Shaffer St., � . 8 Chuck G1ass - Just for clarification before you vote, Mr. Tversen's request wasn't exactly clear just exactly how much parking he wanted removed and in �our field investigations we found that by removing an additional �0 ft. of parking from the east side of the street is about all �ou wo►uld need before you are behind those palm trees, so short of cutting down trees additional parking removal would be academic. �ic Iversen - I just want that whole block. I want that whole street removed between Hoover and Wilson a11 my neighbors would be happy. Chuck Glass - Let me suggest two things then: 1) I don't know how taking parking off the west side of the street improves the sight distance when you're westbound; and 2) removing all the parking, I don't have a problem with it as long at the other residents don't have a problem with it either, but you will not increase sight distance because you cannot see through the palm trees. Commissioner Lemin� - V�hat we're talking about is adc�ing SQ ft. of additional red parking that's there now, which would take you �ack approx. 80 ft, from the intersection. Vic Iversen - Well �ou`ve a.lready got red marker now if you go 50 ft, further that's almost to the end of the block anyway. Chuck Glass - This way ther,� would still be room for 3 cars to park. Bernie Dennis �-VVe have no objection to �aking the parking off the street, however, if�ve just take it off arbitarily and there are people parking there, the parking is not going to go�away it's just going to come bacl�around to your streets. If you understand that going in, fine. � �ic Iversen- It's oka�with me. � �C+�Nrn��vnATjoN; Tha.t the CTC, by Motion, ��RovE the removal of on-street parking from Shaffer St. betwee� �Vilson Ave, ar�d �atella Ave. on t`he east side of tl�e street only. MOTION: D. YARt7ER SECOND: J, FORTIER AYES: U�TANIlVIOI7S F. Request for the installation of a sTop control device at the intersection of Wi11ow Springs Rd. and Morning Glory Way. Dr: Patrick Baghidilzian � 282 N. Wi.11ow.Springs Rd. Orange, CA :92669 Oral presentat��n was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. there was no discussion of�this item, � RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC,�by Motion, D�the request. � MOTION: B. LEMING � � . � :;w . >_r SECOND: F. SCIARR� AYES: UNANiMOUS 9 G. Request for the removal of existing 'xo P�.t�vG ANY'rrn�' restrictions in front of the Korean Methodist Church at 4700 E. Walnut Ave. Sandy Garcia 4625 E. Walnut Ave. � Orange, CA 92669 �Jral presen�a.tion is based on the written staff r�port, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarge�r opened the public hearing for discussion on this i�em. Sandv�, �625 E. Walnut - We have discussed this request with the church staff and they agree that the sign:s shQuld be removed. Chairman Yar�er - �Closed the public hearing and returns the item to the Commission for further discussion and/or a motion. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, �iy l�iotion, �r�tovE the request. MO'TION: F, SCIARRA S�C4ND: N. HOV�ER AYES: U.�IANTMOUS H. Request for the adoption of a sr�n Lnvn•r zone on the realigned section of Prospect St. between Spring St. and the�ollins Ave. Cu�ve. Traffic Engineering Divi:sion City of Orange Dave Allenbach - �n January 1992, this road was opened. It was completely realigned and basically is a brand new road. Right now it's posted at 30 MPx, however, based on the results of our speed zone data. we feel that a more accurate posting would be to have it posted at 35 �x between Spring St. and Bond Ave., and then post�t at 30 NtPx through the Collins curve. There is an e�isting speed zone on Prospect south of Spring which is at 35 MPx. Collins Ave. in proximity to the curve is already posted at 30 MPx this will give us a consistent traffic flow and even speed distribution. Th�re was no 4cliscussion on this item. RECOMIVIENDATIOIv: That the CTC,,by Motion, APPROVE the request. MOTION: B. LEMING . � � SECOND: F. SCIARRA � �w ` " AYES: UNANIMOUS 10 iV. ORAL PRESENTATIONS l. Chairman Yarger - I would like to have an item placed on our agenda for next month; for discussion on 7amboree Rd. road leaving Tustin coming into Orange, to re-evaluate our speed - limit out there. �. �ernie D�nn�s - Depending on the length of the Agenda for September we will take a few minutes and give you the first of sev�era� traffic �eports, this on�e will be on the I-5 Fwy. widen�ng. �V'. ADJOIJ1�:�v1VIE1`�TT' There being no furth�r ora�.presenta.tions from the public, and n�o issues for discussion by either staff � or the other Cammissioner's, Chairman Yarger adjourned the meeting. �espectfully submitted, Phyllis Then Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division � ,w . >.