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04-08-1992 - Minutes TC /� � .. .��-�.�1�'.♦'.>;;". � CITY OE ORANGE �;�+��.,..,��-", MINOTFS OF A RHC�ULAR P�EE.TING CITY TRAFFIC (:QMMISSION DATE OF 1�EETING: April 8� 1992. ROLL CALL: Present - Commissioners: D. Yarger, J. Fortier, B. Leming, N. Hower, F. Sciarra Present - Staff: Sgt. B. Weinstein, B. Herrick, B. Dennis, D. Allenbach, C. Glass, P. Then I. APPROVAL OF MIN[JTES - March 11, 1992 RECOMMENDATION: Approve as published by Recording Secretary MOTION: B. Leming SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous IY. QOI�TSIIVT ('.Ar.�mAR l. Request for a handicapped parking stall 'blue curb' in front of 531 N. Orange St. There was no discussion on this item. Victor Wells 531 N. Orange St. Orange, CA 92667 RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE the request. MOTION: J. Fortier SECOND: N. Hower AYES: Unanimous III. CONSIDERATION ITF�RS A. Request for permit parking on the 500 block of N. Orange St. Pamela Hall 505 N. Orange St. Orange, CA 92667 Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. - 1 - Lyndan Swenson, 520 N. Orange St. - We have .a real problem with the College parking. When you come home from work yau have to look around the neighborhood in order to find somewhere to park. The College has done absolutely nothing about this problem. Students periodically will park and partially block our driveways, they throw trash in the neighborhood, they drink, you call the police and they do nothing. Chairman Yarger - What time of day �oes this occur? Lyndan Swenson - This happens every schaol day, between 8:00 a.m. and som�times as late as 7:00 p.m. Chairman Yarger - Would that be true today? Lyndon Swenson - From ti�e to time� yes. John Aleceia, 510 N. Orange St. - I have li�ed in the area for about 10 years. This year the problem has really gotten to the point where I can't handle it anymore. I have called the pal�ce for people drinking in front of the house, as late �s 11:00 p.m. These are students. They come into our neighborhood with open containers, and nothing is done, there is no citation or anything else written. I have called the College and nothing is done. They come out and t�ll the students, "Would you, please leave," end of subject. I have called the police for blocking my driveway just la�t Friday night at 7:00 p.m. an� the police refused to ticket the car, saying "I c�uld get out of the driveway". I have a note from Pamela Hall, she wa.s unable to make �.t, if you would like to read it. Tom Ghinder, 523 N. Orange St. - I am relata.vely recent to the neighborhood, I fincl that the Callege student parking is very inconvenient. I came home fram wark today in order to att�nd this meeting and I couldn't find a parking spaee. In our neighborhood on Walnut Ave. a portio� of Orange St., Grand St. and among other streets, th.ey are all posted Neighborhood Parking Permit Area. Our segment is the only one that c�oes not have permit parking. They are driving all the students to park on our street. So� it is a concern to me that we are unable to find adequate parking especially during the day. This also applies when there are special events going on at the school, such as so�c�er and basketball games. Ghairman Yarger - Chuck that video tape that we just viewed th.at �as taken at 2:00 p.m. tY�is afternoon, am I correct or in�orrect, didn't we film that part of north Orange St.? Chuck Glass - That is correct. - 2 - Chairman Yarger - On the video filmed today at 2:00 p.m., wasn't there open parking on one side of the street and in most of the area there? Chuck Glass - That is correct. George Littau, 513 N. Orange St. - It is true, John and I were out there when they came by, but if they would have come between 11:00 a.m. and 12:00 p.m. that video ta.pe would have shown that parking lot filled all the way through. The far end was open� I agree with them, but the closer they get to the College, sure enough they are going to grab that corner. They will park three cars in a row if they have to, in a two car parking place. They will even block the driveways and the sidewalks, and you can't do nothing about it. Chairman Yarger - Have you called the Orange Police Department? George Littau - We have and like we said, we had them up there last Friday� evening and th.ey wouldn't even cite them for blocking the driveway. Commission Fortier - How far away are you from the College? Tom Ghinder - I am the second house off of Walnut Ave. The College starts at Walnut Ave. Commissioner Fortier - Mr. Glass other than the video tape today, have we had any oth�r observation in that area? Chuck Glass - Yes, probably more than what we woulcl like to count, Mr. Allenbach would be able to give you more of a run down on that. Dave Allenbach - Prior to the video tape we have done six separate studies during various times of the day beginning as early at 7:45 a.m. and ending as late as 9:45 p.m. At na time dicl we find the street more heavily parke�l than about 45 percent, this is similar to 2 years ago when you cansidered this very same request. The demand for on-street ��.rking has not significantly increased or decreased in the past few years. So, our opinion is this was not warrarnted then and it is still not warranted now. It is our recommendation that the request for N�ighborhood Parking Permit Area be denied on this street. Chairman Yarger - I recommend to hald this motion off anc� study it for 30 days. I would like to see some video �tapings of the area during morning, mid-morning, afternoon, mid-afternoon and late afternoon where we can get a true picture of what is existing in the area at this time. no you think we can do that, and not video tape during the vaeation period? Dave Allenbach - Yes Mr. Chairman, we can do that. Chairman Yarger - Is that fine with you? - 3 - Tom Ghinder - I feel that°s fine, thes� people are here not for the �xercise of a walk over to City �all, they are here b�cau�� they feel they have a pro�lem. And indeed if there is a problem, I too would like to solve t�at problem. Commissioner Fortier - I might make a suggestion, you might want to study the area at least one time during the vacation and compare the change or difference in the two periods. - Chuck Glass - Mr. Chairman, before you move on� if the Commission feels that they may wish to act on this at the next meeting in addition to the information we have, probably there should be a new petition circulated as it has been over two y�ars since this petition was circulated, and as one of the residents testified� "he's new on the block" so to speak. Chairman Yarger - Ok. Would any af you like to pick up a petition and take it around to the neighbors �.nd get their feeling on permit parking? Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and r�turned the item to the Commission for their final comments and/or a motion. RECOMMENDATION: Item to b� eontinued for the additional video taping and circulation of a new petition. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: J. Fortier P,YES: Unanimous B. Request for the est�.blishment of a 40 MPH spe�d zone on CrawaEorcl Canyon Rc1. between Chap�nan Ave. au�c� it's norther].y terminus. Traffic Engin�ering Division City of Orange Oral presentation was based on the written staff r�port, please refer to your copy. Th�re was no discussion on this item. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC� by Motion, APPROVE the request. MOTION: J. F�ortier SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous C. Reques�t to add Jamboree Rd. from Santiago Canyon Rd. to the south city limits , to �h.e City Truck Route System. Traffic Engineering Divisian City of Orange - � - Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. There was no discussion on this item. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC� by Motion, APPROVE the request. MOTION: F. Sciar�a SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: Unanimous D. Request that a new City Ordinance be prepared under California Vehicle Cocle Section 22507.2 to al.low, by P�er�it, the propert� owner or tenant of a property to bloc:k his/her clriveway with a vehicle. James Erhart 799 N. �'ern St. Orange, CA 92667 Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Jim Erhart, 799 N. Fern St. - I have a fire hydrant on the southeast corner of my property and in order to park my motor home on the street and maintain the 15 ft. clearance from the fire hydrant, I have to partially block my driveway. This Ordinance would allow me to do that by permit. I do not have enough room to park my motor home an my property or to park it anywhere off the street near my residence. I have checked a.t various storage lots in the area and there are none with enough space for a 34 ft. motor home. I do not have to block the driveway totally, as this wording states, it would only be a pa.rtial block to approximately 2 of the driv�eway. Commissioner Fortier - What happens when you block you driveway? Do you get a ticket? Jim Erhart - Yes. I receiv�d a notice abou� 2 weeks ago, wh.ich is the first time that I have ever had any problem with it and I have been doing this for years. They say that an emergency vehicle could not get up into my driveway if it had too. If I had two cars parked in my driveway they wouldn't be able to get in there anyway. Commissioner Leming - Mr. Erhart, if you put your motor home in the driveway does it overhang the sidewalk? Jim Erhart - Yes, it would hangover almost out to the street. There is only enough room to park a passenger car in the driveway between the garage and the sidewalk. There's not much more room than that. Commissioner Fortier - Bernie, what happens when you block your driveway with your own vehicle, do you get a citation for that? Jim Erhart - They did one time, yes. - 5 - Bernie D�nnis - I think I ca� speak for the Police Department in this respect. That is not the type of violation that the Police Department gaes out �nd looks for, typically, it occurs as the res�lt of a complaint from a neighbor, virtually that is the only reason they would go out and do that, or the result of some typ� of emergency situation. This is not something that is actively pursued. Commissioner Fortier - N�rmally the Police Department does not �o out there, unless, somean� has complained. - Jim Erhart - That is correct, one of my neighbors complained. About 2 weeks ago, the Police Department ca�e o�t and posted 72-Hour violation notices on my motor home and a truck across the street. And two days later, th�y came out and put another notice on my motor home, another 72-Hour violation and that was a�aut 11:30�.m. Th�n again about 1:30 p.m. the same Parking Patrol Officer came ba.ck and put another notice on my vehicle about blocking the driveway. I was at work, but my neighbor told me that when she came out in the morning and posted the second 72-Hour violation, she took a series of measurements on the back of my motor home to the fire hydrant and took a con�iderable ama�unt of time doing that, then sh� �ent away and came back later wrote up this notice about blocking the driveway. About 8 years ago we had a fire in the neighborhood, and the Fire Department hooked up to the fire hydrant and they said they had no problem with where my motor home was parked� �hey h�d plenty of room to get in and do what the� had to do. Then about two years ago when my daughter had a baby, she came home from the ho�pital an,d she h�marrhaged, we called the paramedics and they came out, �hey had no pr�blem w�th the m�tor home and it was parked there partially blockin� my driveway. This permi� would allow me to p�rtially block my driveway. Commissioner Leming - Mr. Erhart, so wha� has happened is that one of your neighbors compl�ined about �our motor home? Jim Erhart - I ha�e a neighbor who doesn't like motor homes and if I was the only one on the block that had a motor home I wouldn't be to cA�cerned, but in that two blo�k str�tch of Fern St. there are about 4 or 5 motor homes there most of the time, and there are tw� oth�rs parked in and out of the. area most of the time. Commissioner Leming - What do you do on street sweeping days with your motor home? Jim Erhart - U�ually it stays there, I keep the street clean. Comanissioner Leming - You keep the street clean? Jim Erhart - Yes. - 6 - Commissioner Fortie� - �he onl� problem I see with this is that we are setting a precedent on something that I don't think that we would want to �et involved with. If we do this, we would be opening the door for everyone else in the city to follow; and maybe you feel that you have a good reason for it, but it d�es create a lot of problems in a lot of other areas. Jim Erhart - I do understand that, but this Ordinance would only allow me to get a permit. �his Ordinance wouldn't guarantee that everybody could block their driveway, it allows us to take out a permit from the city to partially block our driveway. Bernie Dennis - Mr. Chairman and �embers of the Commission, with your permi�sion may I respond to that? The vehicle code does indeed allow the city to enable th�s kind of an Ordinance and concurrently, if approved, you would enable anyone in the �ity to take out a permit to park in front of their driveways it woul� not b� ex�lusive. The p�ogram that the folks were talking about earlier, the permit parking p�ogram cost u� about $35,000 a year to administer. We do not have the staff and frankly don°t have the inclination to get involved in this kind of a program. I too am a recreational vehicle owner and I pay $50 a month to store it el�ewhere because I have neighbors who don't like boats, and I knew that when I bought the thing. Jim Erhart - Yes, I did too, and I have tried to find stora�� for it but there is none available in the City of Orange. I also been workin� w�th Sgt. Weinstein of the Or�nge Police D�partment who sazd he would also check around for me too. Berni� De�nis - You know one quest�on was asked earlier by one of the Commissioner's, "What are you going to do with it on stree� sweeping days? Because we are indeed going to post all of the streets in the City of Orange for parking prohibition during street sweeping days. So, you will �e invalved in that. But frankly, I just don't have the staff to do that, it's that easy, or the mone� right now. Chairman Y�rger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commissian for their final comments and/or a motion. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DII�Y the reguest. MpTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: �nanimous E. Request to install 'aNE HOiJR LIMITED PARKI� 7 A.M. TO 5 P.M. - �TURDAY, SUNDAY AI�D HOLIDAYS EXCLUD�' on both sides of Eckhoff St. from Chapman Ave. ta 'Willow Ave. , Arbor Way, and Maple Ave. from Stevens St. to Holly St. Davi.d C. Yinc�e� 20�0 W. Maple Ave. Orange, CA 92668 _ � _ Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. David Xinger, 2020 W. Maple Ave. - I s�e that there is a recommendation to approve, and quite frankly, I have to take a breath of fresh air on that. And at the same time I would have to caution the Commission against instituting this in a way or in a fashion that would permanently impact the neighborhood. In fact just to regress just a tad, I never ha� any �ntention when I started this effort to ianpact the Commission, Traff�c Engine�ring and the residents of my neighborhood. It appea�s that this whole problem has stemmed from a lack of communication either purposely or unintentionally between the �uilding where MTI Schooi is lacat�d, the school aclministrator, and the owner himself. It appears that there wa� an infraction when the original release was �rawn up and under the circumstances they should have not been allowed into the prc�perty in the first place. As I see it there is an individuals consideration being a property owner an W. Chapman Ave. of this commerci.al building as adverse to the homeowners and residents of the neighborhood. As I �nderstand it the students are not being given a choice of whether or not they are allowed to park in this parking lot ar not. They have, quite frankly, been tald, "No, they will not be allowed in the parking lot on an order of pri.ority basis." I see this as a public sector issue and not one as a headache for the Traffic Co�ission. If we must institute this policy, I would request there would be in the future the open door of possibly the members of our neighborhood coming in and revising the situation at possibly the time when you institute the street sweeping for th.e entire City of Orange, and maybe at that time the solution would have fotand a remedy for itself or perhaps Kenney Eckman and Susan Tully of Code Enforcement wi11 have been able to remedy the situation through c�tation. Chairman Yarger - Do you recall last month, when you were here, there were people in your area who are opposed to this? David Yinger - Absolutely. Chairanan Yarger - Once again we reviewed a film taken this afternoon prior to this meeting, we went up and down the �tre�ets and th.ere were a couple of bincks wher� there was not one vehicle parked. I think it was Arbor way, which is close tc� the little cul-de-sac street, where vehicles took up appraximately 25 percent of the pa.rking spac�s. I would almost feel that was the neighborhood themselves. On Niaple Ave. behind the school is probably the only place where we saw what you would probably call heavy, heavy parking. I am going to estimate that on both sides of the street there were probably not mare than 12 to 14 veh.icles at the most. - 8 - If we approve �his and the signs go up today, and that's what you want, they will not come down. The reason being is because there is an expense there and that°s where �he burden is going to lie. David Yinger - I am all for that, as a ma�ter of fact it will help to strengthen the security in our neighbo�hood, it will alleviate a lot of the tension that a lot of our neighbor,s are feeling about a cont�ngency of automobiles that are unrecognized in the neighborhood, raising the possibility of �urglaries and other possible criminal ��tivity. Commissioner Leming - Last month when we heard this issue there were a number of your neighborhood residents who were opposed to this the limited parking. Are yau fo� it or against it? David Yinger - If I have m� choice, I am far it and I a.m not going to argue the point. Comznissioner Leming - What we have here is a land use .problem. I hope we have someone here from the Planning Department or Code Enforcement who will give us �n update on this issue. Personally I have some concerns about posting this thing if we ar� going to �nd up with the school moving in a short �eriod o� time or �f they can �olve it. If you would have been on Eckhoff St. on Tuesday, street sweeping day, between Maple Aue. and Chapman Ave., just one �ide of the street is posted .for street sweeping, the other side including both sides and the cul-�e-sac and Arbor Way are not post�d. On that particular day the east side of the street, �he D�1 Taco side of the street, is completely inundated with automobiles including the entir� Arbor Wa� cul-de-sac. Simply because they are not a1low�d to park on �he opposite side of the �treet where it is posted for street sweeping. ChairYnan Yarger - That is going to be rectified wh�n th� City Street Sweeping Ordinance goes in�o effect because it will be posted on bo�h sides of the street. David Yinger - True. And even at that, this last Tuesd�y or maybe it was the Tuesday before that, s�ven individual cars parked on the street sweeping side and they were all cited. Both myself and the gentleman that lives in th� second house from the alley way sat out during lunch time and we watched two �eparate individuals, take the t��ket off their windshield, go to lunch, �ome back, place the ticket back on their windshield and then go back to school. As I see it, that �s another infra�tion of th� law. They ar� taking advantage of us in the neighborhood. The students are now at the point wh�re they are thumbing their noses at us. There is ari attitude probl�m that exists and the tension quite frankly is liable to escalat� because I know that the neighbors are ready to take things inta their own hands. I certainly know that yau don't want that. �he neighbors haven't wanted that and they have been patient in trying to pursue this in a manner that has been acceptabl� to you, the law enforcement ag�ncy, as well as trying to realize som� benef�t in a solution to this problem. I think that they have been more than patient. - 9 - They saw fit to put me in charge of this, I guess, becaus� of my vocabulary and my eloquenceo But the fact is that the matter does still exist an.d that when we post these signs it will, quit� fx�ankly, be liable to move this situation to another part of another neighborhood who will be impacted. pavid Yinger - That is my issue, we h�.d a fine n�ighborhood before this happened, and since this has happened there has been no end to problems, to trouble, arad frankly the�re hasn't been any indication that this is going to �hange at this poi.nt. John Godlewski - This is a land use situation. The school h�.s been located on this property, I realTy don't have the details of how it was ever allowed ta move there in the first place, however, these things happen. It is a Co�e Enfarcement problem, they ha�e been given notice to get out of the property by May 22, 1992, I agree it doesn°t look like anything is happing c�ut there, but after May 22, 1992, Cade Enforcement will go ahead with �ourt praceeding and file on them and get them out, as they are not permitted in that location without a CQnditional Use PerPnit. Now, they may chose to apply for a Conditional Use Permit but they would at that time have to address the parking issue and show how they are gaing to resolve the parking situation, �.nd appar�ntly ther� is no r�solution for that property. I can't say how long it is going to take �to finally evict them from the parcel or to terminate the operation as it is currently taking place. We will irr�mediately after May 22, follow with our procedure to give them a notice t� appear in court. And these things may go on for a number of weeks afterwa�ds, but we �.re aware of the problem and we are proceeding in the �ashion that we normally do these thing� and we will put an end to it as quickly as we can. Commis�ioner Leming - I am lead to believe that the existing parking lot at the school is not being fully utiliz�d. John Godlewsk�. - Yes, that is my und�rstanding as well. Commi�s�oner Leming - Olavio�zsly if it w�re th�.t would then alleva.ate problem? John God�.ewski - It wc�uld not alleviate the prolalem. The cite curr�ntly is way under park for the number of students tnat atten�7 the facility. Commissioner Leming - Even with full use of the parking lot? John Godlewski - Yes. Davi.d Yinger - Again, in lite of what the gentleman from Planning Department just shared with us, this has �een my fear all along. If tkiis is going ta carry on and it must go to litigation, I would st�rongly suggest that w� follow through wi�th the approval of the signs and the parking restrictiom. I myself am wi�lling to put up with it ar�d a few indiviclua.ls tha.� mounted a campaign against this had a few personal interest involved, and it certainly had nothing to do with the praperty values as I understand it. It had to do with families owning more than one automobile anc� placing that automobile on the street from time to time. - 10 - �n Arbor Way, there i� a lady run�ing a business out of her home and s�e stated that she had people parking on her street from �ime to time attending her business and it was important �hat she keep that open, I don't know how Code Enforcement feels about that, but I do know that we have �o do something and we have to �o so�ething now. If it means that the Signs �ill stay up, I far one and th� r�st of the neighborhood who signed that petition are willing to accept that. Commissioner Leming - I guess I am confused, I was under the impression that mos� of th� residents were opposed to the restrictian? Alsor the aperators of th� schaol were here at our last me�ting and I thought there �as some sense of cooperation that: (A) They were trying ta relocate. (B� There wa� some confusion �.bout charging students for the use of that parking lot. I was hoping that maybe through city staff Code Enfarcement they would work someth�ng o�t, however, we still don't know �f they are going to actually do something on May 22, or not. Personally, I have a problem approving this and finding out on May 22, the pr�blem is going to go aw�y. W�at kind of �ost are we looking at for si�nage and all the others things that might be involved:� Bernie D�nnis - Abaut $6Q0 a running block for the inst�llation nf posted signs on both sides of the street. Commissioner Leming - I know the city staff's recommendation is to approve it, �ut I still have some reservations. I would lik� to see the pressure be maintained on the �choal, and other ways, rather thari creat a l-Hour limited parking in a residential neighborhood. Chuck Glass - Our recommendation for appraval is provided that the af�eeted residents are in f�vor of the restrictions, which leads into your �omment. The comment you ma.de was relative to the people who attended the last meeting and spoke, the majority of those were opposed, but y�u have to remember there are a lat of people who .did not attend the meeting. George Calafat, 202? W. Arbor Way - I ask tha� you approve this recarnm�ndation. Wl�y should we be subject to the owners whim over at this trade school? In fact, there are two trade sch�als involved. Th� M�I ow�er who was present last month, and they also have a dental school there and they're using, I'm sure, free parking in our area. I don't want to �e subject to the whims and I don't think that any of the residents should be subject to th� awner's de�ire of when he is �oing ta charge for parking or when he isn't �r when the tenants are going to m�ve out. This could go on for months and months, and what we want i� this 1-Hour parking, and whatever violatio�s he has with the city, le� him resolve that between him and the city, and give us our 1-Hour park�ng. If the residents feel that this isn't wha� they really want at a later date, then why don't we put it for revi�w in a year's time and if they don't want it and they consi�er it a hardship, then go an petition again and circula�te �,t. However, we do hav� 70 percent of th� resi�ents that want this ,and that's over the required amount of residents needed. - 11 - If we �elay in doing this, it's just goin� to cause more ill feel�ng and �ctu�lly it is a hazard and somebody is g�ing to be hurt or killed. Because when you try �o g�t out of � �riv�way on Eckhoff St. for instanc� and there is a truck parked th�re, you can't see the onc�ming traffic. When a pull out of Arbor Way onto Eckhoff St. and there are cars �arked ther� on both sides �f th� st�eet, th�y whip up fro� Chapman Ave. �nd by the time t�ey �it Maple Ave. th�re going �0 MPH and �t is danger�us. So, it is a h�z�rd �nd if we �on't have this, I think somebo�y is g�ing to b� hurt. I would like to see it passed. Elsa Blaziv�c, 2027 W. Arbor �ay, #O - I ha�� property on Arbor Way when g� th�re you say, well where is th� party? Becaus� all of th��e cars are p�rked there, �n� it just �sn't conduciv� to a �ood neigh�orhood. Natur�lly, the property value will go dawn in t�at a�ea. All of the owners in that ar�a are keeping there prapert� up, they �ave gardene�s, t�ey°re upgr�ding there properti�s. It just isn't a �ood thing f�r the n�ighbo��oad. If your recomm�nding that it b� approv�d, I would g� right �long wath �hat, and have it �on� immedia�ely. Ch�irman Ya�ger - Does anybo�y else in th� a�dienc� want to speak on t�is item? �hairman Y�rg�r closed the public hearing and returned the item to �he Commission for thezr final c�mm�nts and/or a motion. C�m�ni�sioner L��in� - I am still relucta�t to apprav� this on the basis that I am not sure and know wheth�r the maj�r�ty of the resi�ents in this are� want this parking restractiQn. Mr. Glass, what was the result of th� p�tation? �hu�k Glass - There were a�dre�ses on t�e petition that I believe where never conta�ted. We did natif� all the r�sidents �nd some �f them did show up. What I would suggest is th�t if the Commission would like to go forward with this and recommend �he installa�ion, it goes befor� the City Gouncil in �ppraximat�ly 2 weeks, while we don°t no��m�lly �enatify. I believe, in this case, we should notify all area residents. Commissi�ner Lem�ng - I uxzderstand the frustr�t�on th�t the progerty own��s � are having right naw, and th� residents i� the area, �ut I think that you have c�me to the wrong place to resalve it. I think it needs to go tp �lanning D�partment, Code Enforcement, City Council, an� t�ey should enforc�. . . . G�airma� Yarger - One thing you have to understand is that �e are a sounaing board for th� Cauncil only, what decisions we ma�e here tod�y is not �a�ve� an stone. Anything we do her� goes ta City C�uncil who makes the final dec�sio� on anything we do. �avid Yinger - Let the City Tr�ffic Commission say "y�a,°' and �e will l�t the City C�uncil decide. W� hav� done aur h�mewo�k. W� ��e frustrated, you'�e right. We are frustrated ta the paint of valatility, �nd we are here to s�ek a amiable an� amicable resolution ta �his problem. What you°re telling m� now is that you're p�.s�ing the buck. I'm not happy at all. - 12 - Chairman Yarger - Nabody tald you that, yaur coming ta your own conclusion like yau said over here, "people picked you as s�okesman, because you h�ve a good w�y with wo�ds and you hav� a good demeanor"' don'� �tart coming back and say�ng we ar� passing th� buck b�cause we h�v�n't made a ��ci�ion yet. Davi� Yinger - I'm s�rry, I°V� �een wor��ng with C�de Enforcement quite a bit longer th�.n �his Commission has been presented with this pr�blem «nd it is an ongoing issue and they have done nothing. Ch�i�man Yarger - Wait a minute, wait a minut�, y�ur talking abaut som�thi�g completely aut of our role, we have nothing to do with t�iat. We have other items on the a�enda, and I don't hav� time to t�lk to y�u ab�ut Code Enf�rcement. Dav�d Yinger - �ell you better fin� time, b�c�use. .. Ghairman Y�rger - This Coa�ission daesn°t have anything �o do with Code En�ar��ment please und�rstand that. navid Yinger - I have dealt �pecifically with the Traffic Office,. . Ch�irman Yarger - I have �losed the publi� h�aring a,r�d the issue is now back to the Connm��sion for final discussian. �avi� Yinger - W�11 you'�e jerking th� wrong guy. Ya�'�� jerking the wrong guy �nd I think you have bit off more than you c�n �hew. Chairman Y�rger - Do the Commissioner's have any athe� discus�ion an this? Coi�missioner L�ming - Well, the p�oblem with the 1-Hour is �hat it is a policy setting situation an� in th�s instance we know w�er� the problem is c�ming from. To have a 1-Hour parking rest�iction �n a resi�enti�l neighborhaod, some neighbors a�en't going to �e aware of ��, they're going to have f�iend� c�me �ver stay and far 2 h�ur� an� then go back outside and find a ticket an th�ir �ar. Commissioner Fortier - Well Mr. L�ming, despite the man's quick temper, all aside. I think what is happ�r7ing is that Go�e Enf�r�ement t�ings tak� a lot of time. These people told us last month, that th� sch�ol was going to b� out of ther�, �nd it seems as if n�thing is even happenin� w�ich we s��pe�ted might be the case. I think Mr. Glass has a good point, if the people are w�lling to live w�th th� sign�ng and they are notified, and if they do�'t lik� �h� signing th�y c�uld certainl� get togeth�r, �o�e down and mak� their pres�nce known. I don't have a prob��m with the signing, b�cause the�e are people breaking the statue5 �f parking on the stre�ts. I th�nk it has b�en going on �or a long time and I k�ow how these thing� go t�rough �he caurts t� mov� them out, they are probably looki�g at 6 m�nths m�namum. So, I really don'� h�ve a problem with the �igni�g if th� Commission doesn't. C�mmissioner Leming - The motion �o approve subject to notification af the proper�y owners and residents, is that what th� intent of the staff is? - 13 - Chu�k Glass - Yes. I �eli�ve, in this caseo that we would probably want t� notify �esidents and acc��ant�/property owners of th� action that the Cammission would take and t�at the final determination would b� done by the City C�uncil, and advis� them of when that meet�ng would be held. Cominissio��r Lerning - They th�n would have a voice at the Council? Chuck Glass - Certainl�. Cam�niss�aner Leming - As lo�g as you're going to renotify eve�ybody in the _ neighborhood whether you approve or �eny it. Chairman Yarger - Well yQu knaw, I°m looking ba�k at last month's meeting minutes a�d th� people of th� school s�id that t�ey had bee� looking for a new location for the last 4- 5 month's, the proble� was �inding a building with ad�quate parking. They appareritly have a problem, and I hav� a feeling that it is really g�in� to drag on. Bernie Dennis - Fir�t of �11 we ar� back in the business of salving a no�-tr�ff�c �roblem w�th a traf�ic engineering soluti��. And I hav� �o problem with that b�caus� I knaw where the folks are coming from, but this isn't g�ing t4 resolv� itself in the next cou�l� of weeks. How in the worl� do yQu go out and find a sch�al? It's not on �very corner and I wauld think th�t if the city ind�cat�d �o thes� folks that they s�ould g�t out of t�ere, I don't know if it°s r��lly ou� r�sponsibility Qr our care if they f�nd a scho�l or don't fin� a �chool, so what? We have neve� ever d�ne this, but that wan't ke�� �t f�n� turning arau�d an� biting us in t�� backside; a�d just �s sur� as �he word the fellow that stormed out of her�, �is aunt is going to be playing bridge with his mother-in-law and is going t� get a tick�t and g�es� wha he's going to co�� an� see? Us, and then all of a s�dden it will �e�om� totally u�fai�. Fro� � histarical �roc�dure th�t is the way it has always happened whe� w� h�ve done this, and that i� why we are very p�rticular in making a d�cisian of this �ype. 5gts �einstein - I would like to bring up two items for thought. �ith th� 1-Hour signs my enforc�ment ��ficers go b� and mark the tire and t�en they c�me back in �n hour, time permitting, and if that mark is gon� or the �ehi�le has bee� moved a few blocks down, or a fe� �ars down and the mar� is gane, thEy c�nnot issue a citatian. What I am saying is, stu�ents �re obviousl� v��y perceptiv� �nd may find th� abil�ty to have one stud��t go out �nd move sever�l cars, and I am not so sure that thzs going �o el�minate the problem, Se��ndly, I do get the maj�rity of th� phone calls from, far example, parking pe�mit locati�ns where reside�ts and relativ�s of residents call �t least 6 or 7 calls a da�e complaining that they go� tick�ts; I would see this h�ppening e�peciall� wi�h a 1-Hour limit. I ju�t wan�ed yau to be aw�re of t�ose facts. - 14 - �hai�man Yarger - We1.1 the gen�l�man that just stormed out of here said th�t over 6� per�ent �f the resid�nts want�d it. My feeling is we've beat this thing like a dead hors�, let's let th� City Council and t�e neigh�o�hood make the �ecision. REGOMI�ENDATION: Th�t the CT�, by Motion, APPROVE th� request and that notices be sent to the resi��nts about the C�ty Council m�eting and if th�y want �� vo�c� an opini�n o�e way or ��e other, th�y should show up for t�at Ci�y C�u�cil m�eting. M�TI�N: D. Yarger SECO��: F. Sciarra A�ED: J. Fo�tier NaES: �3. Lemi�g �BSTAIN�D: N. Hower F. Req�aest to �hange the exis'ta.ng parking r�strictions on Han�y St. in proximity �a Handy Elementary Sch.00l f rom 'NO PAR:�ING 7-9 A.N!. & 2:30-4:QO P.M. ' �.nd implem�rnt '�i0 PAR�ING 7-9 A.M. & 2-,4 P.M.' �.nst�acl. c�f f ic�r �ef f Gray Oranc�� Polic� Departmen�t Traffic Bureau Oral pr�sentation w�� based on th� written sta.ff report, pl�as� refer to yaur copy. Bob `�'heilen, 811 N. Hanc�y St. - Judgi�g from what I have hea�c� here today, when signs go up gettimg th��i down is very expensiv�. I u�der��and this might be a very diffioult requeste how�ver, those bicycles lane si.gn� have b��n up fc�r ouer 2� years and I t�ink th.at we h�.ve g�tten aur money's worth ou.t of them. Na pa�king fram 7 -9 a.m., a�tually Y beli�ve ��� sigr�s say 7:30 - 9030 �..m. aa�d in tl�e aft�rnaon it is 2.30-4:00 p.m. The value c�f those ��.gns, I k�ave �to assume, was to �a.ke it saf� for ch�].dre� who want to ride their bieycles saf� to school. But living there anc� a�avir�g nny of f�.ce in my h.ome, I don't r�ally see very many �ch.�lc�r�n riding their bi�ycl�s to schaol at all. The gr�at�st abusers of tha� bicycl� lane �.re r�ot th.e residents, but the prima.ry �en�.l.ties are going to the residents th.at la.ve there. For example, aft�r a Christmas Vacation � had one �f my vehi�l�es parked in front of my house, there was a t�.cket on tY�� �ar. Now, z loc�k�d at my c3.ack �.nd it sa�.d 7�30 aom., I w�nt c�ut to move my �ar, the tick�t listed �th� time as 7:33 a.m., mak�s no c�iff+erenc� the officer was st�ll finishing up writing the ticket. H�r camment was, °'well you sh�auld have been here a couple minutes earlier." Well that's fine� th� intent was th�t my car should nat �aa�e i�e�n th�re �n.c1 yes I wa� c�oinc� tQ m�ve it, but I miss�d �t by �. couple minut�s. - 15 - The greatest abusers as I men�ioned a�e not the residents, �andy School is right there in f�ont o� my hou�e. Peo�le br�ng their child�en �o s�hool and they pick th�ir ch�ldren up after school. The �ri�n�ry tim� th�t they do this i� during th� 'No Parking' tim�. Recently, the City �f Orange had police officer's at the driveway of the schoa]_ and th�y we�e not permitting pe�ple into the d�iv� thraugh a�ea to pick up their children bec�u�e the �urb side was already all full of c�rs. So, w�at were th�y daing with these peopl�, they were allowing them all .ta park in fr�nt of the schaol an both sides �� the �icycle laner where accordi�g to the signs there shauld b� no parking. Ch�irman Yarqer - Di� yau say that th�re were police affic�r'� there? Bo� Th�ilen - Yes. Chairman Yarger - I think t�at there is a code or som�thing set up that is controlled by la� enforcement where thase signs d�n°t have to go into effect since they ar� being contr�lled. �ob Th�ilen � E�actly, c�nsequen�ly, if the key pur�ase far th�se si�n� is to keep cars out �f the bicycle l�ne during th� emergency p�riods which is prior to and right aft�r scho�l and the police depart�ient feels that it is �mportant �nough f�r the time to b� extend�d, th�n it certa�nly do�sn't make sense for them ta �e p�rking t�e c�rs th�re. Chair�an Ya�ge� - Was that possi�ly during a real ���vy rain? Bo� T�eilen - NQ. W� have had lots �f h�3vy r�in but it wasn't during a rainy day that th�y w�r� doing thato You can ��ec� everyday of �he week, ther� is a great d�al of cars that a�e p�rked the�e picking u� ��d ta.king their c�il�ren ta s�hool. Point #2, if in �a�to the bicycl� lane is the key to bicycle safety and childr�n riding th�i� bicycle�, then why is it just on Handy St.? The �ulk �f the children ��ming t� that school d� n�t live on �an�y St. o but where they �ive i� t��y rade th�ir bicycl� ta �chool they'�e g�ing to s�e�d a l�t mor� ti�e on other str�ets b�fo�e t�ey get ta Handy St. wh�re there is no bicycle lane. Wh�ther it �.s he�vily trav�lpd or �ots if it is th�t un�af� for a bicycle to pull around a ga.rked car it only ta�es one c�r to hit that ehild. So, if in fact, t�at is truly an unsafe situation �hen possibly it s�ould b� spreaa out thr�ugh t�e e�tire city. So, consequ�ntly my sug�estian to you gentl�men is th�t the bicycle l��e is not the answer t� bicycle safety. And rather �han extendi�g t�e hours, i� would b� m� re�u�st th�t you �on�ider remavin� the signs complet�ly from H���y St. �ina Marie, 221 N. Oak St. , #� - I �idri't originally come her� to talk a,bout this subject but I do walk to s�hool that way and I pass Handy Schaol every �or�ing, and I woul� like to see the sig�s stay �s th�y are because �s T �m walking to sch�al a� 8:�0 a.m. every m�rning I do ��e a lot of bi�ycles i.n th� bicycle r�ck� aut at Ha�dy Elementar� Scho�l and I th�nk it wou"ld be - ].6 - �afer for the kids. I also know th�t around 7:30 a.m. a lot of �ar� start to build u� on Handy St. an� at the �nd af Walnut Ave. and Coll�ns Ave. and tha� is a very heavily trav�led area. I als� k.now that I°� really heavy on t�e safety Qf the kids in the com�unity �e�ause where I came from before it was a �mall tow� but w� still h�d safety fo� th� ki�s, and moving ta a b�g area it just ma.kes you more a�are and conscious af the safety f�r the kids �v�ry though they're not y�ur own. � �oul� just like tp see it stay t�e w�y if it is possible. �hairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the �tem to the �ommission far their final comm��ts d�d/or a moti�n. B�b H�rrick - I have a ques�ion �� staff. �as the �ch�ol notified .or �ere they �ware th�t anyone might be re�ue�ting the removal of th� bicycl� lan�? Dav�d Allenbach - Th� pri�cipal of the s�hool was no�ified of this re�uest b�t we were not consideri�g removin� the �icycle lane, we wer� merely consideri�g �han�ing the time of '�� Par�ing' �n t�� afternoo�. B�b Herrick - My recommendatio� �n the legal side would be if the ��mmissian wa��ed to conside� r�moval of �he bicycle lane that they not do it at this tim� sinc� it w�s not agendized �r noticed th�t way. It wQuld hav� to eom� back at a tim� wh�n th��� who have ari intere�� in th� �i�ycl� lan� wo�ld hav� been �otif�ed that it wauld be at issue. R�COMMENDA�I�N: That the C�C, by Moti�n, APPROVE the request. MOTION: J. Fortier S�COND: N. Hower � AYES: Unanimp�s G. Request for the insta.l.�atis�n of prc�te�eted 1.eft-tu�n phasinc� at �tY�e inters�ction of �Co].lins Ave. �d '�an�3a Rd. Tina Mari� Mayna��1 221 N. aak St., #]� c�r�ange, CA 92667 Or�.l presentat�on was b�.sed an t�ie wr�.tten �taff report, pleas� refer to your copy. Tina Marie, 221 N. Oak St., #D - The l�ft-�urn �has� is nat so�ething that I specifically reques�ed �n my letter, it was just an id�a that I had. What mo�ivated me ta d�a this was that orie of nny f�iends was killed at t��aat inters�ctior� la�� i.n �.991, and in fact, s�e warked at Villa Park High School, she gc�t hit that marna.ng b�cause �he lent her car ta her son far twa days. T�i�t was the first c7ay that she w�.lked ta work, in fact, I almost got hit thi.s mc�rni�g by a truck. Wh�n you're turning left from Wanda Ave. to Collins Ave. goin� e�.st, driver's clon't loc��. at the oth�r �nd of the intersection on the other side af the crosswalk. I w�s figuring that m�.ybe something else could �ae c�ane be�ause _ �7 _ as you know I have been tald that plans have b�en thought about to ex�end �anda Ave. through t� Walnut Ave. �aybe y�u could place the crasswalk on the �es� s�de rather than th� east s�de o� the i�tersec�ion. I know of only one � house ��at �t would prob�bly be a pro�lem to. You have to w�t�h the car� �s they turn, I have watch�d the peQple in th� �a�s look totally i� the opposite directio� as they �urn. And I r�alize that we can't da anything a.bout the drivers' bi_�t maybe we c�uld do samething about the c�assw�lk. Chairma� Yarger - I agree wit� you, drivers don't alw�ys loo� like they should. Is t�ere a�ything el�� you would like to add? Commi�sion�r Fo��ier - T�na, it is nice that you would c�m� here with these conc�r�s, howev�r, what we have seen �t that intersectio�, every anters�ction, i� a potenti�l disastgr. If �omeone doesn't look or sameone runs aut in the street someone will �e hurt. fiher�'s only been one pedestrian hit i� th�t ar�a in 5 y�ars ��d l2 accidents i� that area in 5 y�ars. A l�t of cars ga th�ough ther�, so that tells us - that s�ction i� probably pr�tty �afe. Tina Marie - �ut if yau count the near misses.. . �ommissi�ner Fortier - Well, you can't �aunt those, there's near misses all �he time everywhere. So, yQu loQk at thi�gs and sometimes �t is har� �ta�i�tics that you �o laok a�. A�d the near mas�es, who ��n �ount those? So, w�a� I see fr�m this is th�t i� is a p�etty safe inter�ection. REC�MM��DATIO�: Tha� the CTCr by Moti�n� DENY the request. ���IONe �. Yarger SEC�ND: �. Leming AYESw Una�imous I. AD►.T �'r' Discussion. o� all tcac�ay's Agenc�a �tems b�fare the C�.ty "I"raffic Comma.ss�on being cca�nple��, �.nd th�re b�inc� no further requests f�or acti�n unc�er Oral Presentatiax�s, it has beer� movec� to adj�aurn this sess�.on c�f th.� CTC tc� n�xt regular m��t�,ng. NlOT�ON: D. Y�rger S�COND: J. Fc�rti�r A�ESo U�.animaus - 18 -