03-11-1992 - Minutes TC �f �
CITY OF ORANGE t `� ?
�,�.� �,
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING "'"- '
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
DATE OF MEETING: MARCH 1 1 , 1992
ROLL CALL: PRESENT - COMMISSIONERS: D. YARGER, J. FORTIER, B. LEMING, F. SCIARRA
ABSENT - COMMISSIONERS: N. HOWER
PRESENT - STAFF: SGT. BARRY WEINSTEIN, C. GLASS,
D. ALLENBACH, P. THEN
ABSENT - STAFF: B. DENNIS, B. HERRICK
I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - February 12, 1992
RECOMMENDATION: APPROVE AS PUB�ISHED BY RECORDING SECRETARY
MOTION - J. FORTIER
SECOND - B. LEMING
AYES - UNANIMOUS
II. CONSENT CALENDAR
1 . Request to remove the �NO PARKING' restrictions on the south side of Meats Ave.
between Cambridge St. and Greengrove St.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE the request.
MOTION: J. FORTIER
SECOND: F. SCIARRA
AYES: UNANIMOUS
2. Request for the installation of red curb at 1210 E. Mayfair Ave.
James M. McCormick
1210 E. Mayfair Ave.
Orange, CA 92667
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the request, but ask for
additional police enforcement in the area for parking violations, and further
suggest that the applicant notify the police when a violation occurs.
MOTION: J. FORTIER
SECOND: F. SCIARRA
AYES: UNANIMOUS
3. Request for the installation of 4-Way STOP signs at the intersection of Canyon
View Ave. and Hidden Canyon.
Vicky Whittington, Project Manager
Equitable Management Corp.
12460 Euclid St., #203
Garden Grove, CA 92640
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the requeste
MOTION: J. FORTIER
SECOND: F. SCIARRA
AYES: UNANIMOUS
4. Request to reduce the parking time �imit on the south side of Palm Ave. east of
Glassell St. for the business located at 291 N. Glassell St.
Carlos Herrera
Casa Blanca Realtors
291 N. Glassell St.
Orange, CA 92669
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE the request.
MOTION; J. F�RTIER
SECOND: F. SCIARRA
AYES: UNANIMOUS
5. Request for the installation of a flashing yellow warning light at the northerly
terminus of Main St. north of Taft Ave.
Donald Bethune
GMF Sound, Inc.
1961 N. Main St.
Orange, CA 92665
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the request.
MOTION: J. FORTIER
SECOND: F. SCIARRA
AYES: UNANIMOUS
2
I11. CONSIDERATIC�N ITEMS
A. Request for the removai of driveway vision zones at 832 N. Lemon St.
Burton Horn
832 N. Lemon St.
Orange, CA 92667
Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
There was no discussion on this item.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the request.
MOTION: D. YARGER
SECOND: J. FORTIER
AYES: UNANIMOUS
6. Request to widen Walnut Ave. east of Wayfield St. and install a left turn lane.
Thomas Calvert
530 N. Park Ln.
Orange, CA 92667
Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for discussion.
Tom Calvert, 530 N. Park Ln. - I understand the cost of these projects is so very
high, my suggestion and sketch was only one ideal I'm sure there are probably
other ways of implementing this for a lower budget but I would like to get the ball
rolling because a turn lane would provide a much needed safety zone.
Grace Stoughton, 1905 E. Orangegrove Ave. - Daily we come down Walnut and
turn into Park Ln. to go to Orangegrove Ave. and use this entrance and I know
how dangerous it is here. A long time ago this was posted at 25 MPH but now
there aren't any signs at all.
Chairman Yarqer - Does staff know what speed it's posted for at this time?
Chuck Glass - The posted speed limit is 25 MPH the pavement marking may have
been removed. We`II check on that and have it re-installed if that is the case.
Chairman Yarqer - Beyond staff's recommendation because of the tremendous
expense of acquisition of property is to send it to the City Council and have them
hear this request and maybe include it in the next Budget and see if they can't
approve a project in this area. Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and
returned the item to the Commission for their final comments and/or a motion.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, recommend that this street
improvement project be considered in the City's 1992-1999 Capital Improvement
Program.
MOTION: B. LEMING
SECOND: F. SCIARRA
AYES: UNANIMOUS �
3 �
C. Request for an adult school crossing guard at the mid-block crosswalk at
381 N. Esplanade St.
Gordon Mitchell
Esplanade Elementary School
381 N. Esplanade St.
Orange, CA 92665
Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
There was no discussion on this item northern than staff's update.
Dave Allenbach - We feel that the crosswalk is being used as intended and both
students and parents cross at the crosswalk rather than randomly through this
stretch of Esplanade. The crosswalk does not meet any of the minimum criteria
for the placement of a crossing guard.
Commissioner Fortier - Have you observed the kids crossing here?
Dave Allenbach - Yes, we were there in the afternoon dismissal period which is
the time we determined would have the highest amount of usage by pedestrians
and during that time we counted 12 pedestrians, 8 of which were students. Our
minimum criteria for placing a crossing guard at a mid-block location suggests we
have 20 students per hour with a minimum vehicular approach 300. Our count
was 12 pedestrians and 64 vehicles. Most of the motorists were there to pick up A
their children from the school, they were aware of the crosswalk and they did
seem to exercise the proper caution when approaching the crosswalk. In our
opinion the crosswalk right now is as safe as we can make it and we don't feel
the placement of a crossing guard here would enhance pedestrian safety.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, DENY the request.
MOTION: J. FORTIER
SECOND: F. SCIARRA
AYES: UNANIMOUS
D. Request for a school bus stop on White Oak Ridge at Glen Oalc Lane.
Frank L. Remkiewicz - Director of Planning & Facilities
Qrange Unified School District
370 N. Glassell St.
Orange, CA 92666
Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your
report. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for discussion.
Frank Remkiewicz - When we last discussed this we thought there was a
possibility of talcing the bus into the park and using the turn-around there and
bring the children back out. I went back and subsequently verified the size of the
busses in this route which is 87 passenger bus, we tried this one time and ran
over several of your sprinkler heads, as a result we don't do this anymore. I
tallced with city staff at this time and we are very pleased that we were able to
work out the final outcome.
4
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, APPROVE a school bus stop on the
south side of White Oak Ridge at Trails End Rd.
MOTION: J. FORTIER
SECOND: B. LEMING
AYES: UNANIMOUS
E. Request to install 'ONE HOUR LIMITED PARKING 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. - SATURDAY, SUNDAY
AND HOLIDAY'S EXCLUDED' on both sides of Eckhoff St. from Chapman Ave. to
Willow Ave., Arbor Way, and Maple Ave. from Stevens St. to Holly. St.
Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for discussion:
Chuck Glass - At the February CTC meeting under Oral Presentations, there were
residents of the area who discussed with the CTC problems they were
experiencing from a business in the area. As a result of that oral presentation it
was suggested that they may wish to put in or have some 'Limited Time' parking
restriction placed in the neighborhood. Subsequently staff discussed this with the
proponents and prepared and distributed a petition to be circulated the area and
returned for staff's analysis and to be placed on this agenda. We went ahead and
placed this on today's agenda and sent out notices, however, we did not received
the completed agenda until late yesterday afternoon which is why it was handed
to you today and we haven't really had time to review it. If you so wish you may
go ahead and talce action on this today, you may note that our recommendation is
to continue the item based on the fact that we had not received the petition from
the applicant.
Chairman Yarqer - Opened the public hearing for discussion;
Judy Bolton, 158 N. Ecichoff St. - Adding to our traffic problem up and down this
street is this parking situation that malces it very difficult to get in and out of our
driveways in a safe manner. It is our understanding that this limited time parking
restriction will only be for a "temporary" basis until the problem was solved and
then they would be removed. There is a definite sight distance problem because
cars park so close to the driveways.
G�qe Calafat, 2027 W. Arbor Wax - The safety is a problem. As you exit Arbor
Way onto Eckhoff St. if all the cars that are parked along Eckhoff you have to inch
out in order to see the oncoming cars, when they whip around off Chapman they
are going pretty fast and when they reach Arbor Way they're going 30-35 MPH
which is rather hazardous. As far as 'One Hour' parking it has good and bad
points, I see both sides of it but I would lilce to see it initiated on a 6 month or a 1
year basis and if everyone feels later on that it doesn't serve it's purpose then
circulate another petition for the people if they don't want it anymore. I know MTI
is supposed to vacate but they might appeal this and it could go on for a long time
so we need to do something as soon as possible. Arbor Way is almost a semi-
commercial area because it's so close to Chapman Ave. and I think we will
continuously have this problem of cars parking in the residential neighborhood all
day.
s
Commissioner Lemina - Does this problem generate from residents who have more
than two vehicles per household, or is it from the trade school?
Georae Calafat - It's both, as well as the little professional/commercial center on
the corner of Eckhoff and Chapman.
Chairman Yarger - Question to staff. What do you estimate the cost to be to put
up signs in that area? A temporary posting was suggested, but what are we
talking about from an expenditure basis?
Chuck Glass - We would have to have signs made up and installed, it would
probably be less than $500 total.
Tom Bui. President of MTI Colle� - About 4 years ago when we tried to moved
from Struck and Batavia to our current location we went to the City Planning
Commission to get permission to operate the school at 2011 W. Chapman and in
the application we mentioned it was a vocational school so the city absolutely
know what we were and what we were doing. We received approval from the
Planning Commission and the City Council was present at our dedication
ceremonies. Things started getting bad when students started parking in the
neighborhood and a few months ago we got a letter from the Code Enforcement
staff that we have to do sonnething and 2 r�nonths ago we received a letter fronn
the City Planning Commission that they would no longer allow us to operate from
this location. After we received this letter and subsequently a violation notice,
we decided to move out of the area, we have been working very hard as it's very
difficult to locate a building we can move into. We are here today to let the
neighborhood knovrr that we are working on �rying to find a new iocation and
mave out of the area, we certainly are sorry far creating this problem, but we are
asking you to grant us some extra time to find an appropriate building to move the
school because anything else would force us to close altogether.
Chairman Yarger - The CTC has nothing to do with the time element for you
moving out of the area, that is between you and the Planning and the City
Council, we have no jurisdiction on that at all.
Tom Bui - Since we won't be here much longer l don't think this '1 Hour'
restricted parking is really going to help you. We have been looking for a new
location for the last 4-5 months the problem is finding a building with adequate
parking for our needs. We are negotiating with 3 properties now and we can
show you the response we have received from potential landlords.
Commissioner Fortier - It sounds to me that once your school has moved the
residents would be satisfied with conditions as they exist, we might want to
consider continuing this issue a month or so to see how your negotiations are
progressing.
Unidentified Person - The only thing I object to is that this is a vague proposition,
he has looked for 3-4 months and it could continue for another 3-4 months, there
is nothing specific and that's the way it stands, I don't think that's really good
enough.
6
Chuck Glass - Code Enforcement has placed a time limit on them, however, if he's
not out I'm not sure what the next steps are. In the long run it could end up in
the courts and take a considerable amount of time.
Daniel Rudat, 2010 W. Arbor Wav - I signed the petition in favor but I have
changed my mind and would like my name deleted. I think the '1 Hour' parking is
just a temporary solution to the problem. I'm concerned that if the city puts the
signs up and my experience is that the signs probably won't come down. We
have a home business where our clients would have to move their cars every hour
and that wouldn't be reasonable; additionally visitors wouldn't be able to park in
front of house and I personally wouldn't purchase a house with such a parking
restriction.
Lorena Rudat, 2019 W. Chapman - I've appreciated MTI because they have rented
my parking lot and so I would miss them, but I just don't want '1 Hour' parking on
Arbor Way; I don't care where else you put it but Arbor Way doesn't want it.
Geri Maness, 1921 W. Maple Ave. - It sounds great for those that own homes
there but for those of us that live in apartment don't have a 2 car garage or a
driveway for parking, and most of the residents do have 2 cars per household and
I don't go to work until 9:15 a.m. We have 1 covered parking space per
apartment which doesn't seem good for us. I'm opposed to MTI parking on the
streets, I have talked to some of the students there and their reasoning for parking
on the streets is because MTI charges to park in their parking lot.
Chairman Yarqer - MTI's parking facility for their students, is that lot filled with
cars during day when students are there?
Geri Maness - It is pretty much filled but when I have seen students on the street I
have seen empty parking spaces in the lot which prompted me to ask why they
park on the street. At any given time there may be 8-10 people parking on the
street and there have been enough emptjr spaces for them in the parking lot.
Commissioner Lemina - Was staff aware that MTI is charging students for parking,
is that part of our problem?
Tom Bui - We don't charge students for parking in the lot. You see empty spaces
in the lot because we are only allowed a certain number of spaces in the lot
because we are not the only tenant of the building, and we have tried to get the
landlord to give us more parking but they said no. There are 200 stalls in the
parking lot and we are allowed to use 72 of them. Any student who is willing to
park outside of the lot is given an incentive of $25/monthly. I tried to rent
additional parking spaces from other businesses like Adray's and the Union Hall
across the street but most of them said no because of the liability issue. We have
120 active students plus staff's cars.
Unidentified Person - If you have a trade school you are allowed so many square
feet per office. If you had a regular office and not a trade school you would have
adequate parking, but fihe requirement jumps up 3 times for a trade school vs. a
regular office.
7
Tom Bui - When we negotiated to move into this building we sent the Planning
Commission a letter saying that we were a vocational school planning to sign a
lease with the landlord for this location, �nre would like the city to give us opinion
and approval and if they had any objection to please let us know. We got a
license from them with no objections.
Paul Ortiz, 1919 W. Maple Ave. - Those who cannot afford to park in that parking
lot at the school park on our street, now that is the cars of the residents of the
apartments. We have apartments on both sides of the street most have 2 cars on
the street. If you are going to put those signs up why don't you put stickers on
the cars of the apartments advising that they are residents?
Chairman Yarger - You couldn't enforce it anyway stickers wouldn't make any
difference, there's no legal way to enforce that.
Paul Ortiz - What are we going to do then, a 2 car family with no driveway, no
garages, what do we do get rid of our cars?
Comrnissioner Fortier - If MTI wasn't there would that solve your problem?
Paul Ortiz - Yes it would.
Bennie Owen, 458 N. Stevens St. - We have rental property on Eckhoff St. I don't
oppose a solution to the parking and traffic problem in this area. I also own
property on Compton Ave. that had a simila� problem which was solved with a
parking permit program. I feel that would be a solution that would be applicable to
all the situations here particularly to those who reside in the apartments on Maple
as it doesn't restrict the time or hours you may park it just restricts parking to
residents and their guests only.
Chairman Yarger - A parking permit program is a very difficult thing to monitor in
an area where you have apartments.
Commissioner Leminq - As far as a parking permit program is concerned, we
adopted a policy a year ago which would require certain things to be in place to
qualify for the program; one of the things that doesn't is apartment overcrowding.
Just because an apartment complex is overcrowded we don't want people to
come before us asl<ing for parking permit program because it wouldn't solve the
problem since everyone living there would get permits and in addition to that we
don't want to create a city where every neighborhood has their own little parking
program it becomes unmanageable. I don't think this situation today qualifies or
meets any of the crifieria; we have a school that has outgrown their building and
they are malcing an effort to relocate and they are going to have to.
Lorena Rudat - I have a small parking lot between MTI school and Del Taco which
I rent to MTI for their overflow parking.
David Shaffer, 2028 W. Arbor Wav - I'm concerned with the value of the real
estate and people moving into the neighborhood and how my property would be
affected; and secondly if indeed the signs would come down once the school had
left the neighborhood. I wouldn't move into a neighborhood that had regulated "
parking there have been problems with the Chapman University area.
s
Kristen Rudat, 2010 W. Arbor Wav - I live next door to the school so I see alot of
activities others don't. Their parking lot is not being used to it's full potential.
There are two separate schools in that property and I don't know if the city has a
say in future tenants of a property, the residents in the area would prefer to see
other professional types of offices in this building. Students jump the fence into
our front yard to save them having to walk around the block to get to their car and
that°s not very nice for us; also one of my neighbors witnessed a drug deal in their
parking lot and the students smoke pot in front of our homes and we would really
like so see a better class of clientele in the future in that site.
Chairman Yarqer - I think you would see city government involved in lawsuits
when you start telling a landlord what tenants he can get depending on how his
property is zoned.
Kristen Rudat - I think its evident that the problem is the school.
Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing.
Chuck Glass - Whatever uses are permitted in the commercial zone could go in
without any city approvals. In all probability the school has gone in through the
process of the Conditional Use Permit through the City Planning Commission. If
I"m not mistaken, in those cases notification is sent to a certain radius around that
particular use to the neighborhood and I would suggest that the proper arena to
oppose that use would be at the City Planning Commission and City Commission
as opposed to the City Traffic Commission.
Commissioner Fortier - I would really like to help these people but as I see it if we
post this for 1 Hour parking we're hindering them and to put up signs for such a
short "temporary" time is not a good use of city resources. I think it's best to
wait and see the progress the school makes in relocating their facility, and if its
done in a short period of time then the problem will be gone and everyone is
happy. I don't think the 1 Hour parking is really going to help and it really will
only penalize the residents themselves. I think we should continue the item for a
month and monitor the situation and have staff report back to us, if the school
doesn't move out in a timely manner then we can see about posting the area.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by Motion, CONTINUE this item one month, and
ask that representatives from the Code Enforcement Division and the Planning
Department be present for additional input into this issue.
MOTION: J. FORTIER
SECOND: B. LEMING
AYES: UNANIMOUS
Georqe Calafat - We did circulate a petition and signed by the majority of the area
residents and please talce that into consideration.
9
IV. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
Commissioner Leminq - Last month we had an individual at 238 S. Cambridge ask
for a neighborhood parking permit program; it just so happens the City Council the
following week, approved the improvement of Pritcher Park and from what I've
been able to ascertain this will involve two restrooms, a couple structure buildings
and as far as I can tell it will have an impact if its used as anticipated on parking in
the neighborhood. I would like to make a motion for a memorandum to be sent to
the City Council and the Parks and Recreation Dept. requesting that the issue of
parking for Pritcher Park be brought to the city Traffic Engineering staff for their
input and that any change in usage for a property that will have an impact on
parking that staff and CTC be contacted to give us an opportunity to have input
on it that way we're not addressing the issue after its done. I think its a better
system and I make that motion.
RECOMMENDATION: A memorandum be sent to the City Council and the Parks Dept.
requesting that the improvements to Pritcher Park be submitted to the Traffic
Engineering staff for their input on the parking impacts. And that a policy be
adopted that when any department is going to change the usage of the land from
residential to any other use it should go through Traffic Engineering staff and the
City Traffic Commission to address parking impacts.
MOTION: B. LEMING
SECOND: F. SCIARRA
AYES: UNANIMOUS
F. ADJOURNMENT
Discussion of today's agenda items being complete, and there being no further
requests under Oral Presentation, it was moved to adjourn this session the City
Traffic Commission to it's next regularly scheduled meeting of April 8, 1992.
MOTION: D. YARGER
SECOND: J. FORTIER
AYES: UNANIMOUS
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
I�t'�a�fJML.
Phyllis Then
Recording Secretary
City Traffic Commission
10