08-11-1993 - Minutes TC �y�,�s
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CITY OF ORANGE
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Date of Meeting: Au u._� st 1 l, 1993
ROLL CALL-PRESENT-COMMISSIONERS: D.YARGER,J.FORTIER,N.HOWER,F. SCIARRA
ABSENT -COMMISSIONERS: B.LEMING
STAFF: B.DENNIS,B.HERRICK,LT.E. TLTNSTALL, C. GLASS,
D. ALLENBACH P. THEN
I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
June 9, 1993 - APPROVE as published by Recording Secretary
MOTION: F. SCIARRA
SECOND: J. FORTIER
AYES: UNANIMOUS
II. CONSENT CALENDAR
l. Request for '20 Minute' P�rking adjacent to 171 S. Anita Dr.
Thomas E. Skinner
Assistant Asset Manager
Newport Equity Capital Corporation
171 S. Anita Dr.
Orange, CA 92668
Oral presentation was bczsed on the written stc�ff report,please refer to your eopy.
Chc�i��n�an YaTger oper7ed the plrblic hearir�g fo�• the following discussion of thzs request.
Thomas Skinner - Newport Ec�uitv Capital Cor� (171 S Anita Dr.l - My request now
instead of '20 Minute' would be for '2 Hour' parking, after consulting with the building
tenants that is the time limit they would desire. Someone is parking a very large trailer on
the street which blocks visibility of traffic when exiting the parking lot (submits photos of
problenz ar�ea bz�t they do not show the offending vehicle).
Chairman Yar�er - You say they are only parking here one day a week?
Thomas Skinner - We can count on it once a week, sometimes it's there 2-3 times a week.
Chairman Yar�er - Is that parked on the south side frontage or the north side frontage?
Thomas Skinner- South side.
Commissioner Sciarra- Is that a trailer or a motorhome?
Thomas Skinner - It takes a truck to move it so I guess it would be more like a
motorhome/trailer.
Chairman Yarger - Does it look like a commercial trailer, is it a big box type? Does it
have a name on the side.
Thomas Skinner -It looks like a big box, and there is no name on it.
Chairman Yar�er - When we go into different areas with limited time parking we run into
trouble enforcing because of the cut-backs.
Commissioner Fortier - What is the problem with the parking that you would need this
limited hour parking? From what I'm hearing there is ample parking available in the back
and when we get concerned is when there is no parking of�street we would look into this _
type of time limit parking.
Thomas Skinner - The problem isn't that there isn't anywhere on-site for parking, it's
because the person with the trailer cannot fit into any of the parking lot spaces and he
chooses to park in front of the building which obstructs view when exiting the parking
structure.
Chairman Yar�er-But you have 2 ways to go in and out, I can see the south exit could be
obstructed but most of your people could exit the north driveway and not have any
obstruction whatsoever.
Thomas Skinner -Most people don't exit one driveway consistently.
Dave Allenbach - If this is a request for 'time limit' parking, we would have to recommend
that you deny that type of request because the building does have ample off street parking.
If the CTC wanted to consider '2 Hour" parking it really should be considered for the
entire street because this particular problem really is just going to shift to somebody else's
doorstep. With regard to the sight distance problem of the trailer, which is a different
issue than time limit parking, that could be resolved with some red curb at the driveway's
to provide some sight distance. There is an ordinance prohibiting the parking of
commercial trailers on public streets unless they are loading or un-loading merchandise, I
believe you can park a recreational vehicle type trailer on the street provided it is not
hooked up electrically to a business/residence for living purposes.
Chairman Yar�er - I recommend that the next time that vehicle is parked there that you
call the Police Dept.
Commissioner Sciarra - Actually the trailer is a different situation entirely. I have to go
along with the engineer's report and findings that the parking lot is only 50% full and I
don't see that red curb is warranted.
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Commissioner Fortier - I agree with you, however, if Mr. Skinner would like to remain in
the audience until Lt. Tunstall rejoins the meeting, perhaps he may of�er a suggestion on a
way to resolve your problem.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion DENY the request.
MOTION: D. YARGER
SECOND: F. SCIARR.A
AYES: UNAI�IMOUS
2. Request for a 'driveway vision' zone at 739 N. Batavia St.
Barbara Hicks
1372 La Colina Dr.
Tustin, CA 92680
There was no discussion on this item.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion APPROVE the request.
MOTION: D. YARGER
SECOND: N. HOWER
AYES: UNAI�TIMOUS
3. Request for short term p�rking on the west side of Citrus St. adjacent to Sunland
Credit Union, located at 1010 W. Chapman Ave.
Lisa VanPatten, V.P.
National Express Funding Corp.
1010 W. Chapman Ave., Suite 200
Orange, CA 92668
Due to a mal.fu.nction with the t.ape recorder oral testimony of this item wasn't
recorded.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion DENY the request.
MOTION: D. YARGER
SECOND: �. SCIARRA
AYES: UNANIMOUS
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III. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
A. Request for a 'Neighborhood Parking Permit' Program on both sides of Shaffer St.
between Katella Ave. and Trenton Ave.
Louis Peters
1422 N. Shaffer St.
Orange, CA 92667
Oral p�esentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to you.r copy.
Chairrnan Yarger opened the public heccring for discussion of th.is item. Due to a
malfunction with the tape �eco�ding equipment, not all of the beginning of
the discussion wa.s �ecorded.
Louis Peters, 1422 N. Shaffer St. - The residents that signed would be amenable to paying
the fees, I for one will be more than happy to and for 3-4 vehicles that I have. It's just
something we definitely need, there is a value to our homes and the neighborhood is in
transition and we would like to keep it but we can't, the street is just totally marked with a
grease strip that you wouldn't believe and I'll clean it myself, I'm not asking the City to do
it but just allow me to have no cars there so I can clean it.
Chairman Yar�er - You have capabilities of parking 4 vehicles on your property; 2 in the
garage and 2 in the driveway.
Louis Peters - That's correct.
Chairman Yarger - So in essence what you're saying is that you want permit parking
because you don't want people parking in front of your house from the apartments, is that
correct?
Louis Peters - We have an on-going problem, that is correct.
Cominissioner Fortier - How did you find the capacity on the street at the time you
conducted the traf�'ic survey?
Dave Allenbach-We drove the street several times during the day. We were out there in
the early evening, admittedly we may have been out there too early to catch the demand
for the evening as were out there around 5:00 - 5:15 p.m. At that time the demand was
fairly light, there was a total of 18 vehicles parked along this section of Shaffer St. There
was plenty of capacity left for additional vehicles to park on the street.
Commissioner Hower-What time is the main problem?
Louis Peters - It starts about 7:00 p.m., and then on weekends there will be automobiles
3/4 of the way down the block.
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Commissioner Hower-I drove through there last night at 7:20 p.m. and there were only 6
cars parked on the street and at 8:20 p.m. there were only 7 cars parked there. This
morning at 9:40 a.m. there were only 7 cars parked on the street; so there were no
problems at that time that I could see.
Commissioner Sciarra - It appears then that there is no problem with the availability of
parking but the applicant wants the permit parking to keep the apartment dwellers from
parking in the street. Is that correct?
Louis Peters - I would like to be able to control the parking, who parks on the street.
When somebody throws a dirty diaper on your front lawn or attempts to urinate/defecate
on your lawn, is that prejudicial on my part because I'm trying to keep the apartment
dwellers away? Maybe it is I don't know, I'm making a call that I don't want this to affect
my property, I don't need my 5 children to see this, I don't need the trash thrown that
these people leave, they have no concern of what they're doing. My neighbor and I go
out and have to sweep the street, empty oil cans and the like. A man walks down to my -
home carrying an empty liter 7-Up bottle with water from my hose and fills his radiator
and then he throws the empty bottle on my lawn. I didn°t spend $200,000 +to buy a gas
station, I didn't invite him, if he comes and asks me that is a different story but this is what
we're faced with.
Chairman Yar�er - It sounds like inore than a parking problem to me, these are social
problems and people are looking for a tra�'ic solution. We agree that you have a problem
but it's not really traffic, that is a public street.
Louis Peters - I understand that, I spoke with Susan Tulley of Code Enforcement earlier
and she went out and spot checked those apartments and there are more people in the
apartments than there is supposed to be. I cannot control that, but maybe having permit
parking as a venue for other social issues, but at least we can have our destiny somewhat
under our own control. I can't change people but we are trying to do this the best way
we can and this is an avenue that we felt would be viable for the neighborhood and the
neighborhood is 100% in favor of this.
Chairman Yarger-How long has it been since you've spoken with Code Enforcement?
Louis Peters - Susan hasn't returned any of my calls, and she indicated to me that with the
recent budget cuts she might not be around after July, however, I have kept notes of my
calls to the Code Enforcement Dept. and dates of such.
Bernie Dennis - Susan won't be returning your calls as she is no longer employed by the
City, and the Code Enforcement Dept. and their availability to do this kind of work has
been severely curtailed.
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Rudy Lovato, 1451 N. Shaffer St. - I'm about 6 houses down from the apartments. As
the economy recovers from its current recession is that there will be alot more people
jammed into those apartments and they will spread down as far as we are. I feel that the
same thing applies in that we have to take pride in our neighborhood, we've seen the value
of our property go down considerably because of insidious attack of apartments by a low
element of people who are not available to afford an apartment of their own, I know that
from talking with the mailman he complains that when delivering mail there are many
people's mail address to the same apartment. Right across the street from me is a house
that has 2 families occupying it and he has 6-7 cars, trucks parking there all the time. My
next door neighbor's have expanded their driveway to 5 car lengths wide, if all these
people only parked 2 cars in their driveway and had to put the rest on the street it would
decrease the number of available parking spaces.
1412 N. Shaffer - There are cars parked on the street blocking my driveway and I wasn't
able to get out until I tracked down the owner of the cars and asked them to move. We
have a patio in the front of our property and these people come onto our property and sit
there and visit with each other, do whatever they care to do, and leave whatever trash they
care to leave. It's true that it is a social problem, but it is traff'ic related when I can't get
out of my own driveway.
Commissioner Fortier - I understand this is upsetting to you, but as we look at this issue
all the reports to us show there is adequate parking available on the street. Now you inay
have undesirable people parking in front of your home, people blocking your driveway,
parking illegally but you see that is another matter.
Bernie Dennis - About 2 years ago the City Council, particularly Councilwoman Coontz
convened a neighborhood meeting involving some of the residents here today but it was
specifically to address a variety of problems on Shaffer St. in this area. At that point in
time with quite a variety of staff present, Traff'ic Engineering, Police Dept., Code
Enforcement, the residents were advised that the city would take very positive actions in
trying to reduce the overcrowding in the apartment complexes and through that effort,
hopefully reduce among other things, the on-street parking deinand emanating from the
apartinents onto the R-1 section of the Shaffer St. area. The Code Enforcement staff
began that procedure, the Police began their procedure in doing alot of things, as you will
recall from a couple of years ago we took some actions in regard to signing, and other
options, but unfortunately I think for the people involved, all of these expectations didn't
materialize. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no continuing effort or no effort at
this point in time to resolve the overcrowding issue. In this area you are dealing with two
distinctly dif�erent landlords, each of which have a particular philosophy; one landlord was
very cooperative and one was absolutely uncooperative. Although I share, what I believe
to be the opinion of the Coinmission that this is probably a social problem, I can't help but
feel in the same respect that maybe the City inadvertently let these folks down. I'm not
sure that we have fulfilled the rest of our obligation and that was to resolve or to attempt
to resolve the source of the problem, the overcrowding in the apartment complexes.
Commissioner Hower - Perhaps then we should send this to the City Council, which is a
body that could address some of these other problems, and let them solve this.
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Chairman Yarger - I worry, with the cut-backs in the City, if there are permits who will
enforce it? Do we have enough law enforcement, the Police Dept. says they are having
problems.
Commissioner Fortier - I agree that these people have a problem, but I think it should go
to the Council and they should be the one's to help them. It is not the removal of parking
to solve this problem.
Louis Peters - I don't see how the City Council is going to do anything to solve this now.
We're willing to take that responsibility to take on this additional complication of how we
have to live and in addition it may take additional manpower to enforce this it is additional
income to the City when you put a ticket on a car you get income from it.
Chairman Yarger - That doesn't really make a difference, the City doesn't get all the
money collected froin fines.
Chairman Yar�-When will this item come up before the Council?
Phyllis Then - We can schedule this for August 24th, or on September 14, 1993, if you
want this on an evening session.
Commissioner Sciarra - The use of the parking permits in this case, I feel, is unwarranted
and doesn't meet the true intent of a permit parking program; and I would like to make a
motion that we deny the request.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion DENY the request for a
neighborhood parking perinit program on this segment of Shaffer St. And I recommend
that we send this to the City Council for their review at a 7:00 p.m. Session, and that
notices be sent to all affected area residents.
MOTION: F. SCIARRA
SECOND: N. HOWER
AYE S: UNANIMOUS
NOES : NONE
B. Request for a '3-Way' STOP control at the intersection of Loma St. and Serrano Ave.
Tanet Morgan
Cardinal Property Management, Inc.
1290 N. Hancock St., Suite 103
Anaheim; CA 92807
Oral presentation is based on written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman
Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this item.
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Christina Stichler, 6642 E. Waterton - The Mabury Ranch HOA Board of Director's
would like to go on record that we would like the STOP sign put in as soon as possible as
we have concerns with the on-going safety in our community. We have 400 homes with
only one access in and out of the area. With the continuation of Serrano we may never
get that because of Woodcrest Development going underneath and the road development
contingent upon that. With the opening of Loma we will see considerably more tra�ic of
people coming across the hill and down to the beach via Jamboree and missing all the
freeway traffic. We also are seeing traffc now of commuters going through our
neighborhood. We would like to strongly urge the Commission to actively look at this
with the assumption of keeping our on-going safety in mind and that installing this now
will keep that safety during the process of opening up Loma St.
Bernie Dennis - Regarding the signalization, it's very probable that we'll bring the signal
for that intersection down, time-wise.
Christina Stichler - When I came out this afternoon it was real scary coming through the
construction area, thank goodness they had a flagman there.
Chai�man Ya.rger closed the public hea�ing and �eturned the item to the
Commission for their comments arr.d a motion.
RECOlVIlVIENDATION- That this be DEFERRED until such a time as traff'ic warrants
it be reconsidered.
MOTION: N. HOWER
SECOND: J. FORTIER
AYES: UNANIMOUS
C. Request for a '3-Way' STOP at the intersection of Grand St. and Trenton Ave.
Debbie Rivet
1482 N. Grand St. �
Orange, CA 92667
Oral present.a.t.ion is based on th.e written sta.ff re�no�t., please refer to your copy.
Chaa���an Yc��ger opened the public hec�ring for the following discussion of this request.
Rudora Saul, 1472 N. Grand St. - I would like to ask when the speed zone survey was
done, I was almost hit yesterday crossing the street. Due to the apartment, which we're
having the same problem as the people on Shaffer St. are having, tons of cars are parked
on the street and there is poor visibility when trying to make a left turn.
Chairman Yar�er-Which direction are these cars coming from?
s
Rudora Saul - They are coming from Cambridge to Glassell, so it is from both east and
west. There is alot of tra�c, because of the apartments. One house on Trenton has 22
people living in it and they have 9 cars; I haven't been able to speak with them because
they act like they can't speak English, but th�y have been gracious enough to heed my note
to leave the front of my property for my family and friends to park. The people at this
house also have about 8 children under the age of 3 that are allowed to play in the
parkway strip with all the oncoming tra�c speeding through the intersection. The STOP
sign is for the safety of the children. Like I said, the visibility of cars trying to make a left
turn orito Trenton is very poor and people are going so fast, I think a STOP sign would
slow people down,
Chairman Yar�-How far is it frorn Grand to Glassell St.?
Dave Allenbach-�t's about-6�Q feet.
Chairaman Yar�er � As far as exiting Grand onto Trenton �here is red curbing to afford
visibility, is that correct? -
Dave Allenbach - Yes sir, u�e recently installed red curb at this intersection to enhance
motorists visibility.
Chairman Yarger-Were the other neighbors notified abo�t the 3-Way STOP?
Rudora, Saul -I don't know, I received a lett�r and that's why T came today, ta support my
other neighbors.
Chairman Yar�er - When you start stopping venicles and starting them you are creating
� m+are polluti+on, bot� from naise and fumes, �vhen you get people right on the corner
where the STC�P sign g�es in they're the�ne's who will have to listen to the car as it stops
and starts. It loaks like the people were .notified of the meeting but they didn't care to
shaw up. �
. Commissioner�art�er - STOP signs are not designed to control speed of traf�'ic, they are
to assign rig��t-of-way on1y.
Chairrt�a.n Yarger closed the publi� hea�in,g and �etu�ed the item to the
Conzmission for their comments and a motion.
RECOMMENDATION: Based on the fact that it doesn't meet warrants and there �
seems to be a speeding problem rnostly and that STOP signs aren't designed to control
speed, I recommend that we APPROVE a'1-Way' STOP installation.
MOTION�:;:_; J. �ORTIER
� SECONLI:�����_ N. HOWER
AYES: �� UNANIMOUS
.,,. . ss•
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D. Request for 'protected left-turn phasing' at the intersection of Glassell St. and
LaVeta Ave.
Brendon Moore,Principal
Holy Family Cathedral School
530 S. Glassell St.
Orange, CA 92666
Oral report is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. There was no
discussion on this item.
I�ECOMMENDATION: That we APPRUVE the protected left-turn phasing and
p��.�e �his pzoject on the Signal Priority List, ta be performed in conjunction with the
anticipated G'ity prQject, oz when the ultimate right-of-way has been established.
1VIOTION. D. YARGER
SECOND: F. SCIAIZRA -
AYES: UNA,NIMOLTS
TV. URAL �'RESENTATiONS
PUBLIC PARTICIPATI�N - At the conc7usion of the meeting of items listed on this
agenda, member� of th+� publ�c may address the �ity T�affic Commission regarding items �
of interest to th� public that are within the subject jurisdiction of the City Traffic
Commission.
Commissioner Scrarra - Something has got�o be done about the tra�ic that builds up on
Chapman and Tustin, especiai�y the eastbound�traf�ic an Chapman. When that bus make
a stop there he really creates a bQttieneck situatian. If passible I'd like to see the cars
moved out of the parking bay and have the bus relocated into that bay.
No other comments were made.
V. ADJOURNMENT
Discussion of al1 today's Agenda items before the City Traf�ic Commission being
complete, and there being no further requests for action under Oral Presentations,
Chairman Yarger�.djourne�this session of the CTC to it's ne�regular meeting, scheduled
for Septem�ber 8, 1993.
Respectfully submitted, .
Phyllis Then � `. ��
Recording Secretary � � '
Traffic Engineering Division � '" ` "
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File Name:August
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