04-14-1993 - Minutes TC � �
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- CITY OF ORANGE
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Date of Meeting: April 14, 1993
ROLL CALL -PRESENT - CONIlVIISSIONERS: 7. FORTIER, N. HOWER, B. LEMING,
F. SCIARRA
ABSENT - COl�Il�IISSIONERS: D. YARGER
PRESENT - STAFF: B. DENrTIS, C. GLASS, D. ALLENBACH
LT. E. TLTNSTALL, P. THEN
I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
March i0, 1993 -APPROVE as published by Recording Secretary.
MOTION: B. Leming
SECOND: F. Sciana
AYES: Unanimous
II. CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Request for the installation of 'NO PARKING ANYTIME' restrictions on Regency,
Meredith and Hillsborough.
Kimberly Onishi, Community Manager
Keystone Pacific Property Management, Inc.
3919 Westerly Pl., Suite 200
Newport Beach, CA 92660
Monique Keitz, Parking Committee Chairperson
Belmont Estates Community Association
4248 E. Cornwall Ave.
Orange, CA 92667
RECONIlVIEENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, APPROVE the installation of
'NO PARiZING ANYTIME' restrictions on the east side of ReFency Ave. between
ViaEscola Ave. and Meredith St.
MOTION: F. Sciarra .
SECOND: B. Leming ,_ . ..
AYES: Unanimous
2. Request for the iytstallation of ayt additional 30 feet of red curb at the parking �
lot entrance�ocated on the north side of Katella Ave. easterly of Handy St.
Don Dawson
2302 VanOwen Av�.
Orange, CA 9266`7
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, APPROVE the request.
MOTION: �. Sciarra
SECOND: B. Leming
AYES: Unanimous
3. Request for the installatiflM of a `1 HDIIR' parking zotze in front of
402/410 N. Classeil St.
Dr.Ned S. I�horey
4Q�N. Glasseli St.
C�range, CA 9266b
R.EC011�I1✓��TDATI+ON: That the CTC, by rnotion, DENY the request.
MOTII�N: �. Sciarra
S��OI�TD: B. Lerr�ing
AYE"S: Unanirnous `
4. �.equest for the r�moval of all scliool related signing and pavement legercds
un Meats Ave. between Cambridge St. and Tustin St.
Traf�ic Engineering i�ivision
City of Orange �
Commissioner Lemin� - Since w�e have this request � assume this is because this school
facility �s not being u�+ed, �nd I was �vondering if we could go ahead and do this out by
McPherson School,which would be Prospect and Palm.
�Bernie Dennis-That is an excellent suggestion. The reason we are making this request is
that we have a difficult enough tirne controlling speeds on streets adjacent to schools that
are open, we don't wa.nt to give the illusion that we are either building a trap with a "25
MPH" si�ns, or that we are over-signing for non-usable facilities. We will do this at both
schools�d we appreciate your suggestion. ; .
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- -RECONIlV�NDATION:-�:That t�e CTC, by motion, APPROVE-the removal of school
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related signing and pavemen�ks.legends on Meats Ave. between �Cambridge St. and
Tustin St.; and also on ProspEct S�. and Palm Ave. . -
1V�OTION: B. Leming .�. . ':; . � _
SECOND: F. Sciarra �
AYES: Unanimous
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III, CONSIDEIZATI�N ITEMS
A. Request for the removal of markec� pedestrian crosswalks on Collins Ave.
between Cambridge St. and Tustin St.
7oe Fortier, Vice-Chairman
City Traffic Commission
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Vice-
Chairman Fortier opened the public hea.ring for the foilowing discussion of this request.
Vice-Chairman Fortier - I t�.lked ta Dennis Mill�r, P�incipal and he �s real concerned with
the mid-bl�ock crosswalk where all the accidents have Qccurred. He wonders �f it was
feasible to bl�.cken out the crosswalk now. H� will get notif ca�ion to parents and
�tudents and will bodily guard that un#il everyone understands that it is no long�r a
crosswalk. Is that possible?
Dave �lenbach - We have no problem with that, we were merely suggesting until after
the h+�ater re-rni�c project occurs 1�ecause the school term would be �ver and there
wouldn't be a problem with re-training students on whi�h routes to utilize, however, if the
Principal doesn't have a problem with that we certainl�don't, we can�lack it out.
Vice-Chaii-man �ortier - If Mr. Mil�er foil�ows through with what he said he would do it
might he�p with the safety of some kids.
• Bernie Dennis - �Vhat w� will probab�y do vn that is bl�ck it out rather than sandblast it,
and r�ernove the signing.
� Vice-Chairman Fortier-If you'll alert me as to when this will occur I will alert Mr. Miller. �
Dave Allenbach- As soon as the City Council approves it we will take care of the work.
�REC0I��MEN:UATION: That the�TC,by.rnotion APP�O'VE the following:
1. Remove the crosswalk at 1Vlaplewnod/Collins
2. Retain crosswalk at California/L�nn -
3. Install pedestrian warning flasher at Ca�ifornialLynn. This installation will require
a budget appropriation and we estimate this cost to be between$10-12,000
4. Remove the�rosswalk at:Shattuck St.1�o11ins Ave.
5, Retain crosswalk at Lincoln St./Collins�4ve.
6. Instruct staff to look into t�e possibility of contacting OUSD to see if we can
acquire partial funding for the flasher installation by OUSC, since the benefit will
be to OITSD.
MOTiO�:�=- B. Leming
SECOND:;�. N. Hower �
.AYES: :Unanimous
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� B. Request for the removal of marked pedestrian crosswalks on 1Viain St: and
Sycamore Ave.
Joe Fortier, Vic�-Chairmat�
City Tra�c Cornmission
Oral pres�entation is based on the written staf�'report, please refer to your copy. Vice-
Chairman Fortier opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this request. �
Vice-Chairman �ortier - Wouid this involve the installation of the "oversize" signs
automatically, or would we have to request their use?
RECOMIV�NDAT�ON: That the CTC, by motion, APPROVE the request.
MOTTflN: F, Sciarra
SECOND: J. Fortier
AYES: L�nanimous
Bernie Dennis -Mr. Fartier will you take the lead in this a.nd notify the school principal of
our action toda.y?
Vice-Chairman Fortier-Yes I will.
�. Request for th� i�t,�tallut�on of u 3-T�T��y STOP control device at the intersection of .
�egency Ave. an�i 1wl�redith St. .
I�mberly�n�shi,�Cornmunity Manager
Keystone Pacific Prop�rty Management, Tnc. .
3919 Wesxerly Pl., Suite:�0�
Newpor�Beach, CA 92�60
Monique Keitz,Parkin,g�ommittee Ghairperson
Belmont Estat�s�ommunity Asso�iation
4248 E. Cornwa��Ave. -
Orange,CA �2667
Oral presentation is based on the written staf�report, please refer to�your copy. Vice-
Chairman�ortier opened the�ublic hearing for discussion on this request.
Cornrnissioner Sciarra-Who would be responsible for moving that STOP bar and creating
a larger vision zone?
Dave All�nbach�Ci�y sta#�would do this.
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Kimberl,�flnrshiL Keystone Pacific Propertv Mana eg ment - I have a petition signed by
some of the homeowner's for the requested ST4P sign. This requesx is based on the
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interest of safety for the community, there have been`�reports of several "near-miss"
accidents at this intersectiori due���o the fact that the neighborhood drivers are negligent
when paying attention to the��res� of the traf�ic, we're hoping the STQP signs will help
keep the community a little safer.
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Vice-Chairman Fortier - The residents feel it is a dangerous intersection and that's the
request for the STOP sign, is it because of motorists speed or the proximity of the road
curvature and that there is a sight pi-ob�em?'
Kirnberly Onishi - Yes, it curves and �t's a pretty well used intersection and there have
been many reports of near-miss accidents at several homeowner`s meetings lately.
Commissi4ner Sciarra -Don't you feel that when parking is removed on Meredith St, that
it will improve the visibility of oncoming traf�ic at this intersection?
Kimberl,y Onishi - We would have to see how that affects it, but I'm sure that would help
quixe a bit.
Vice-Chairman Fortier-�he relocation of the STOP bar may help also,
�Commissioner Lemin� - �t�ther thing that may help with visibili�ty wc�uld be for your
asso�iation to look at the landscaping currently in place at this intersection, and if some of
it can be removed nx trimmed back to help improve visibiiity you may be able to assist the
city�n their ei�orts to improve rnotorists safety.
Bernie Dennis - Did you unde�-stanc� the first action regarding the posting of the 'NO
PARI�,ING ANYT�' signs on the east side of Regency? The failure to install those
signs, or the installa�ion and subsequent removal of thos�e si,gns, whatev�r happened is a
violatian of the State Map Act. It's not a matter that the Comrnission can resolve or
anyone individually, and don't revievv this as a request, view it more �n the sense tha.t this
. a�solutely has to be dane;.and also view �t i�the sea�se that there prabably is some liability �
involved bo�h to your property management �ompany and very possibly an+� in all
like�ihood to the c+on�rnunity assa�ciation. r would suggest that you resolve this
� immediately.
RECOlVIlV�NDATIO�T; That�he CTC,�y motion, DENY the request.
M4TION: N. Hower
�ECOND: B. Leming
AYES: ZJnanimous -
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, D. Request to permanently close Broftson Ave. at Bedford Rd.
Carl Clugston
573 S. Devon Rd.
Orange, CA 92667
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Vice-
Chairman Fortier opened the pu�lic hearing for discussion on this request.
Bernie Dennis - Both the city's current financial situation, which can probably be
at�ticipated to continue for se�veral years, we have no burning desire to maintain a street
that isn't u�ed. Although I agree with Dave, I question the possibility of diverting traffic
from MainPlace�r from LaVeta clown�o Bronsan and subsequently into that area. By the
same token T can't see, if this is a burning issue to that neighborhood, that it's of that much
concern to the city one way or the other. If the residents are able to resolve the iss�e the
street a.nd keep in mind per our diagram, there is driveway access �ff Bronson to 592
Bedford an�1 591 Crest Rd. If the residents are able to resolve that issue and if indeed
Bronso�was dedicated to �he city in easement, as vve feel it is, and would able to revert
bacl�ta the adjacent property owners and if, of course, they're willin;g to acce�t it. If both
of the property owners are not willing t+o accept it, we do not want to have a remnant
blocked off at both ends, collecting weeds.
Another issue tc� b� cansiderec� is the Bedfa�d frontage with the property owner at 592 �
Bedford, wau�d he be accessing his property oi�Bedford via a driveway, or woutd he be
�oming in of�Crest via Bronson an�d coming in via the "back door"? If that were the
case, then this individual wduld requYr�e a 'reciprocal access agreement' between the Crest
property owner and hims+elf, These are some of the issues invalved.
If also, the CTC takes an action, and in the final analysis a hearing will be required before
the Council whereas they w4uld be asl�ed to 'vacate' the street. Again a public hearing
would be involved. Y think the CTC decisio�n should be first, is there:a need for the street -
far a traffic purpose? What would be served in abandoning it? What would be served in
keeping it? But always, when you consider those issues, consider �hat there are yet
questions to be answered that are probably beyond the scope or ability of us to make at
this point in time. We've been assured by the applicant that both parties involved a.re
amenable to the re-distribution of the property. �Ve don't know how they would do that,
other than yes in all likelihood #hey would each take the 30 ft. half-street known as
Bronson. Another consideration t�at would ha�ve to be made, and this would be
consider�d at the public hearing was 'what are, if any' utility easements in the street?" If
there�.re.u�ility easements th+en obviously nothing can be done on the property in the form
of a permanent structure that could not be done unless the utilities were`relocated, and I
seriously doubt for what would may be 3,000 sq.ft. of property gain'for each of the
properties,that would pencilxout:��-�
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The final issue really involves the status of Bedford per se. There is a possibility in the
next 15 years or so, if not sooner but I would expect that long, that Bedford will be
improved to a 4-lane facility which would necessitate in all likelihood the acquisition of the
Bedford frontages. If you recall that was one of the conditions for approval for
MainPlace, one of the mitigation measures. Whether that ever comes to fruition I don't
know, I know that it is a condition that stems from either the Phase II or Phase III of that
development. Right now they have 1,600,000 sq.ft. developed, if they go to Phase II
which is another 1,000,000 sq. ft. then they have certain obligations to make; Bedford
could very well be one of those requirements.
Maybe it �sn't �.clear cut issue of sho�ld be abandon it, or should we not. From a straight
tra#�ic point of view, I think Dave's report pretty well indicated that the stre�t isn't heavily
used by vel�icular tra�c. From the city's point of view a 30 ft, half street is just
sornething for us to maintain. I would suspect, from s�me of the area residents, probably
Bronson af�ords a reasonably convenient by-pass to get out onto Bedford Rd. and maybe
up to �use the signalized intersection of Bata�vialLaVeta, As the tra�ic on LaVeta
increases the accessibility of the cross-streets, w�ether it be Devon, Crest, Alpine is going
to grow increasingly di-f�icult and I will assure you that we have absol�tely no plans, zero
plan, tc� impl�ment signalization a� any locatior� other than Bedford/LaVeta. With those
points�f view in mind you might want to deliberate it.
�Jice-Chairrnan�ortier - Tf�his street is c�ased fhe city has not interest in maintaining the
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street, �
Bernie Dennis -Frorn right-af-way line to right-of way line. East property line of Crest
�, and the west pr�perty�ine�f Bedford, is that the city would abandon. We would have not
interest in that secti�n.
Vice-Chairman Fortier - You've talked to these property owners and they understand that
they would have to maintain that or do something with that property?
Berriie�ennis - A�though they say�hat, I don't doubt Carl's word, one of the provisos in
the vacation proceedings would be an 'absolute dedication' of that right-of-way back to -
these property owr�ers. a�nce they accept that right-of-way, they are on the hood.
Vice-Chairman Fortier-I wonder if they understand that?
Bern%e Dennis - They would have to, this wQuld be a condition of the abandonment, It
would not be a matter of either one of them it would be both or none. There is another
interesting ramification too, and that is the property owner's responsibility to find out.
o When they accept this property �they had better have some very good legal
ad�ice because if they a:ccept that there is a possibility that will change their
Proposition 13 umbrella, it could significantly change the value of their property.
I have one af these "residual pieces of property", and I called the County on any
number of occasion�.�rid �Z've never got the same answer twice. So I just didn't
accept the property..� .:�. . >:.�
i'll get some of these answers for the CTC regarding the vacation, what the
��mifications a:re in giving the pro���-ty back, and. we wiil notify these two
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�roperty owners. �
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Commissioner Lemin� - If this were approved would it be a condition that the property
owners have to remove the payement section and put in landscaping in the area so it
doesn't give the appearance of a street?
Bernie Dennis It couid be a requirement of the City Council that there may have to be
some remedial work performed on Crest Rd. to close the street. At best the prolongatian
of the curb and very possibly sorne kind of a modified turn-around and that would be all at
the expense of these two property owners.
RECOMIV�NDATION: That the CTC, by motion, CONTINUE the request one
month and have stat�send special notiees to the property owners at 591 S. Crest, and
592 S. Bedford, anc� urge them to attend the rneeting due to the responsibilit�es req�ired
by these adjacent property owners.
, M�TION: B. :Lerning
SECOND; F, Sciarra
AYES: LTnanimous
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IV. ORAL P�E�ENTATION�
Bernie Dennis -�We were asked �everal months ago what the impacts would be relative to
ist the hiring freeze which was instituted ar�d that hurt us relative to 2 positions in-house
for Tra�ic Engineering. We were �lsn asked what was the irnpa�t c�f the 4-da�r work �
week, and we°told pe4ple�ve would ma�e a concerted effor� to continue to da the CTC ,
items on a 30 day tum-around. I don't know if you are av�are �f it or not but w�e are the
only Commission or Gammittee�vho does that in the city. I�you �ry �o turn something �
around at th�e Planning Cornmission or the City �ouncil within 30 +days �nd � thi�k you'd
be in for a big s�rpris�. But, it's starting to both�er us n�w, and i don't know how long we
��:n keep doing this 3Q-day turn around. � wou�d lilce to see it �ontinue �ut � have a
#'eeling that some of�hese .req�uests may �lip to 60 days. i�ust wanted to a.rivise you of
this fact.
�ommissioner �,emin� - When you say 30 days you're talicing about from the time you
receive a request you try to get it before us and action taken and recommended to the City
Council�vithin 30 days?
Bernie Dennis-T'hat is correct:
Commissioner Lem_in� - Well I xhink with the budget constraints and the 4-way work
week I don't know how you've been able to do it. ' I do like�aving the agenda and staff
�reports,ear-ly enough to review them and even view�the site before the meeting and I think
rt's important to continue that policy. I want to make sure t�at w hen it comes to
� budgeting that:there is enough money for the CTC to do it's job.
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Bernie Dennis - There is sorne real doubt in my mind that if our Commission or if#he
Council or if�the city as a whole has rea�ly felt or recognized what the impacts of some of
these reductions and restrictions are going to be, and �huck has been out for the last 3+
weeks, in addition to his other duties the prepa�ation of the CTC agenda and reports, for
all practical purposes, fell to Dave this month. It would be nice to say to Dave, well why
don't you share that with Doug, unfortunaxely Doug has at least 5 major �transportation
projects. Or we could have said, why don't we share it with Reggie, Reggie isn't here any
more and neither is �avid Kuan. So it's rnultiplying on us. As you notice from your
agendas, we haven't any less t4 do in this area. We will continue to do the best we can,
we are going to have to come up with a compromise as to how we serve the public and
how we serve the CTC, and I think the cQmpromise is that we are probably going to have
� to adjust our cut-off dates for reports earlier, we will do what we can and some of them
may carry-over.
V. ADJOURNIVIENT
Discussion of a11 iterns from today's Agenda being complete, and there being no further
� requests for action under Oral Presentations, Vice-�hairman Fortier adjourne�l this session
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of the CTC to it's next regul.ar meeting. '
°�� Respectfully submitted,
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Phyllis hen �
Recording Secretary
City Traffic Co�nmission
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