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04-13-1994 - Minutes TC ' ;�j - 0 f ` �� CITY OF ORANGE '`��'�`` ''�`''` MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING CITY TRAFFIC C4MMISSION Date of Meeting: April 13, 1994 ROLL CALL-PRESENT -COMI��IISSIONERS D. Gibson,B.Leming,F. Sciarta ABSENT -COMNIISSIONERS D.Yarger,J.Fortier PRESENT -STAFF B.Dennis,C.Glass,D.Allenbach,Lt E.Ttinstall,P.Then ABSENT -STAFF S. SooHoo. Sr. Assistant Citv Attornev I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES March 9, 1994 - APPROVE as published by Recording Secretary. MOTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: D. Cribson AYES: Unanimous II. COl\TSENT CALENDAR 1. Request for the installation of an on-street 'Handicap' parking stall adjacent to 761 S. Park Vine St. Al Palladino 761 S. Park Vine St. Orange, CA 92669 Staff presentation is based on the written report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Leming opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this item. Al Palladino. ?61 S. Park Vine St. -There is more than what meets the eye in my request. I would like to show this video which will identify what is not a problem and what has been constituted, by a neighbor, as being a problem. We live in a complex of 200 homes of duplexes and 4-plexes all of which share common driveways. It is a general practice of common courtesy to park in the driveways. I've been here for 2 years without a problem, now I have new neighbors who are having a tough time putting their utility vehicle in their garage if my van is in the driveway. At no time since November has anyone approached me to discuss how we might cooperatively resolve this issue. . � CITY TR.AFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meeting - Aaril 13, 1994 I am capable of driving and I am the only driver at my household; we parked the van on the street one night and as my wife was helping me disembark from the van in my wheelchair we almost got clobbered. It would be quite dangerous for that van to be parked on the street for anyone using a wheelchair,I don't recommend it. Commissioner�-This request is to paint 25 ft. of blue curb which would only allow vehicles to park that have the properly licensed which denote �iANDICAPPED'. Do you agree with the recommendation that it would help you? AI Palladino -No it would be dangerous and I wouldn't use it. Bernie Dennis - I can see why you would have difficulty making an approval, and it was our understanding that this would help Mr. Palladino and if it won't we would certainly withdraw our recommendation. Commissioner LeminQ - We can't discuss the issue of parking in the driveway because we really don't have any jurisdiction over a problem between 2 neighbors on private property. The Commission is prepared to approve a parking space which might alleviate the problem you're having. Al Palladino-I wouldn't ever park there. James Dun�er, Prope , Mana�;er - When we were notif ed of this request we were overjayed, it would provide a parking space Mr. Palladino could use. Unfortunately he believes he finds driving necessary even though he does not possess a valid CA driver's license. The facilities as described in the request would meet the needs of handicapped individuals and I believe it would be appropriate in consideration of his need. Commissioner Leming closed the public hearing for final discussion by the Commission, and/or a motion. RECOMMENDATION: In view of the fact that staff has withdrawn their recommendation I would make a motion that we deny the request for the ir�stallation of a handicap parking space at this location. MOTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: D. Gibson AYES: Unanimous Bernie Dennis - Would you let the record show that the initial staff recommendation was for the installation of the ha.ndicap parking stall, and that recommendation was only withdrawn after Mr. Palladino, in public testimony, indicated that this would not be used by him. " 2 � ` CTI'Y TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meeting - Anril 13, 1994 ^�� iw 2. Request for the installation of 'NO PARI�TG ANY TIlVIE' restrictio�s at the intersection of Talbot St. and Cornwall Ave. V'icki Murray 4205 E. Cornwall Ave. Orange, CA 92667 Oral presentation is based on the wrinen report, please refer to your copy. Commissioner Leming opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this request. Vicki Murra,y, 4205 E. Cornwall Ave. -I wanted to say that when I wrote my letter to the city and the Traffic Commission I was very impressed with the way it has been handled and even if it is denied i feel that the City of Orange is doing a good job, and if a person has a complaint it's heard and it sounds as if staff has certairily checked it out. There would be one No Parking' area in the middle of the area where you are allowed to park. I brought this to your attention because it is a corner and although it is wide one car will park right there and stay there on the corner for a long time so when people come out around the corner they steer towards the center of the street to avoid that car, and then people coming the other way do the same thing and I've watched several near head- on collisions. There is parking available across the street on the straight side, something to consider in Belmont, along alot of the streets, it might be wise to choose one side of the street to be posted for No Parking' because it can obstruct your vision. I think Meredith is posted this way, but others could use it also and if they went through the development and had one side of the street that had no pazking it would help. Dave Allenbach, T.E. StafF- The street mentioned, Meredith, has parking restricted on one side for two reasons; one is that it only has direct access from residences on one side of the street; and also the street is not wide enough to accommodate parking on both sides of the street. Bernie Dennis - This is referred to as a �Iillside Loca1' and it's within our Subdivision� Standards. Commissioner Lemin� - I would suggest that the homeowner's association could inform area residents of the sight distance problems and suggest to their residents that they not park so close to the curb return at intersections. RECOMMENDATI4N: That the CTC, by motion, DE1VY the request. MOTION: J. Gibson SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous � 3 . ' CI'I'Y TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meetin�;Aarit 13, 1994 III. CONSIDERATION ITEMS � A. Request for the installation of 'NO LEFT TURN' signs on Collins Ave. at Waverly St. M'ichal Doesburg 861 Iv. Waverly St. Orange, CA 92667 Oral presentation is based on the written report, please refer to your copy. There was no discussion on this item. RECOMMENDA'I'ION: That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request. MOTI4N: F. Sciarra SECOND: J. Gibson AYES: Unanimous B. Request for the installation of an all-way STOP control device at the intersection of Lincoln St. and Sycamore Ave. Stuart T. Hafer 3 74 N. Lincoln St. Orange, CA 92666 Oral presentation is based on the written report, please refer to your copy. Commissioner Leming opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this request. Al Compton-445 N. Lincoln St. -I've lived here for 19 years and in all that time I've only seen one collision. I agree with the possibility of installing a STOP on Lincoln St. at Sycamore Ave. as it's kind of a natural STOP because you're meeting 2-way traffic on Lincoln St. I thought perhaps some kind of a caution sign, I hope the city doesn't put them up very much but something like this I thought maybe one of those yellow caution warning beacons on Lincoln as you come up to Sycamore it might help the motorists on Sycamore after you make a STOP. But I agree with you that a 3-way STOP would be excessive at this location. Dave Allenbach - I would also like to point out that I have heard, by telephone, from several of the area residents who are not in favor of a 3-Way STOP installation and I did receive a letter, which is in your information packet, from one of the residents who also was not in favo� of the 3-Way STQP. Should you approve the 1-Way STOP on Sycamore Ave. that it does include 30 ft. of red curb for sight distance. Commissioner Leming closed the public hearing and returned the request to the CTC for final comments and or a motion from the Commission. � 4 • ` CIfiY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Re�ular Meeting - April 13, 1994 RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC,by motion, DENY the request. MOTION: F. Sciana SECOND: J. Gibson AYES: Unanimous C. Request for the installation of an aIl-way STOP control device at the intersection of Center St. and Palm Ave. David M. Sanroman 279 N. Center Qrange, CA 92666-1503 Oral presentation is based on the written report, please refer to your copy. Commissioner Leming opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this request. Commissioner Sciarra-Did you say you would recommend 30 ft. of red curb? Dave Allenbach - Yes sir, on the south side of Palm Ave. just westerly of Center St. in front of 288 N. Center St. Commissioner Lemin� - Did you say you could illuminate the intersection in lieu of the STOP signs? Dave Allenbach -Yes that is correct. That is an Edison street light and we can ask them to upgrade the wattage for more illumination. Commissioner Lemi� - How many parking spaces would you lose by installing an additiona130 ft. of red curb? Dave Allenbach - We would lose 1 parking space. However, currently there is 80 ft. of � frontage on Palm Ave. in front of this particular residence so there would be approx. 50 ft. remaining to accommodate parking on Palm Ave., and there is also the frontage on Center St. that is available. Commissioner Lemin� - Is this in one the areas where we have a neighborhood parking pernut program? Dave Allenbach-Yes sir,this is Area A. Commissioner Lemin�-What would this effect have? , � 5 � � - - ` CITY TR.AFFIC COMMISSICIN Minutes of Regular Meeting - Aaril 13, 1994 Dave Allenbach�- I believe we had 2 right-angle accidents; a northbound vs. eastbound vehicle, I believe by putting another 30 ft. of red curb on this side of the street we will - increase sight distance and possibly reduce the number of accidents. Carole Walters - 534 N. Shaffer St. -I was contacted by area residents that wanted me to speak for them on this issue that agree with the installation of the STOP sign, there are frequent accidents here. There are as many as 8-10 cars waiting to get across Palm Ave. now during peak times so the increase in noise and air pollution probably won't make any difference to us. (letter by Ms. Barker, 313 N.� Center St. + si,gnatures of immediate neighbors) I'm speaking for myself now when I say I understand you're saying that if there is already a STOP sign a block away you shouldn't have another one so close; that's discrimination against the neighbors. Chapman Univ. on Walnut Ave. we did not need 3 STOP signs, we have one on Shaffer/Walnut; Center/Walnut and Grand/Walnut and then we have the light so how is different and we say on Center St.just make it a 2 Way STOP so people on Walnut wouldn't have to stap so many times. To me, if Chapman Univ. can have this these homeoumer's are asking to be protected they have the right, and if you can say one area can have the STOP sign and the other area you can`t because it's too short a distance you're wrong, you cannot play games and you cannot do favors. And I'm tired of this and I've gone across there alot and I've almost been in an accident alot but don't turn this down because you �an't have STOP signs cause it is you had better answer us why Chapman Univ. was able to. Commissioner Lemine-Can we have some background on the STOP signs along Walnut? Bernie Dennis -Basically there is a double STOP at Grand/Center on Walnut at Chapman University. The construction of the student housing unit on the north side of Walnut prompted the retention of an existing sign at Grand/Walnut and the 'tentative' installation of a 4-Way STOP at Center/Walnut. We probably will be coming back to you in the near future regarding the removal of the Center/Walnut STOP. What Ms. Walters says is correct at this point in time, it is double STOP and it shouldn't be in our estimation and we will come back with the justification to allow the CTC to make that determination. Regarding the issue at hand specifically Palm & Center, that has absolutely no bearing on Chapman University it's not part of the equation whatsoever. Commissioner Lem� - In order to make the intersection a little more safe we're talking about maybe 30 ft, of red curbing. Carole since you live in the area would that help or would the removal of one parking space? Carole Walters-Anything like that would help so you could see. - � 6 s ` CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION , Minutes of Regular Meeting - Apri113, 1994 Commissioner Leming closed the public hearing anal returned the item to the Commission for their,fi'nal comments andlor a motion. Commissioner Gibson-I have driven these streets for many years and I concur with Mrs. Walters that the hazards on the hazards of that intersection. I find a similar hazard at 'Grar►d/Palm as well especially with the signal here at Chapman/Grand. I understand the need to retain on-street parking and not red curb any more that one must but I personally feel the 4-Way STOP is appropriate; and if not that then to red curb not only the southwest corner,but also the curb on the northeast corner for clear vision zone. RECOMMENDATTON: That the CTC, by motion APPROVE the request for the installation of a 4-Way STOP sign at the intersection of Palm Ave. and Center St. , MOTION: J. Gibson There being no second the Motion fails. RECUMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, APPRUVE the installation of an additiona130 ft. of red curb on the southwest corner of Palm Ave. at Center St., as well as increasing the illumination of the street light at the northeast corner. MOTION: J. Gibson � SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous Commissioner Lemine - Can we send this resident at 288 N. Center St. that the proposed red curb installation will be going to the next City Council meeting? Dave Allenbach-Yes sir. D. Request for the removal of a school crosswalk at the intersection of Collins Ave. and California-Lynn St. Tom O'Nea1 870 N. Lynn St. Orange, CA 92667 Bernie Dennis - Commissioner Fortier, who is absent today, as well as the Principal of Yorba Middle School has asked that this item be continued until the May meeting. We have contacted the applicant and he has no objection to that continuance and with that staf�would recommend that item#D be continued to the May 11, 1994 meeting. Commissioner Lemin� - I don't think there is anyone in the audience today wishing to speak on that item so we're just going to pull this item and continue it until the May meeting. 7 ; . ' CITY TR.AF�IC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meeting, Aprit 13, 1994 E. Request to change access channelization on Santiago Blvd. at Brookside Ave. and the Villa Park Shopping Center. Traffic Engineering Division City of Orange In lieu of a written staff report, Bernie Dennis-City Tra,�c Engineer, gave the follawing oral presentation on this item. Bernie Dennis - Over the past several years the staff of the City of V'illa Park and the City of Orange, as well as the elected officials of the two cities, namely the Mayor and the Mayor ProTem and the City Managers have been apprised of a particular problem existing at the intersection of Brookside and Santiago� Blvd., and at the central access point to the V'illa Park Shopping Center on the east side of Santiago Blvd. To set the scene Santiago Blvd. is a 64 ft. wide secondary arterial highway running north and south. The principal intersection of issue is Brookside is a "Tee" intersecting with Santiago on the west side of the street. Basically the diffculty of the concern arises from the fact that Brookside and the driveway to the shopping center are "off-set" intersections. When we use the term "off-set" in traffic engineering vernacular particularly "off- set" in the wrong direction it means that for a vehicle wishing to enter the shopping center go�ng southbound and maki.ng a left turn into the center, it directly crosses the path or occupies the same space as a northbound vehicle wishing to turn left into Brookside; this is the reference to "off:set the wrong way". There are number of these intersections existing within the city, the difficulty in regard to this particular location is that Santiago Blvd. is a relatively highly traveled secondary highway with a tra�c volume slightly in excess of 20,000 vehicles per day, at this location. As part of our analysis we reviewed the recorded accidents that occurred at this intersection for the last 7 years, which indicates 6 reported accidents with the exception of accident #6 all of which were property damage type. Typically you can attribute certain accident characteristics to turning movements whether they be in driveways or on streets, whatever the case may be. It's highly likely, for example, in the case of accident #1 and #6 that the rear-end collisions were occasioned by somebody making a left turn in front of them; of course it could also � be a pedestrian. In essence we have approximately 3 of the 6 accidents in total that can be attributed to activity immediately around the intersection area. and for the sake of discussion when I state intersection I'm talking about the combination of both the street and the driveway. , s r _ � CI1'Y TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meet,ing - Anril 13. 1994 Traf�c counts were conducted at the entry of the shopping center at Brookside by both the City of Villa Park and the City of Orange. The City of 4range did peak hour vehicular counts, the City of Villa Park did entering counts. By using the two in combination we can estunate that about 1,340 vehicles are traveling southbound and turning left into the shopping center on a daily basis while approximately 342 vehicles are going northbound and turning left onto Brookside. During the course of the many discussions that have been held between the two cities there seem to be four options that the Traffic Commission may wish to consider. I will give these in no particular order of preference but just in general sort of wary. 1. Install a raised traf�ic island on Santiago Blvd. complete with a left-turn pocket that would, in essence, a11ow the continued use of the main shopping center driveway by � southbound traffic on Santiago Blvd. During the discussion of raised islands the use of Brookside other than a right-turn out or a right-turn in would be precluded. Traffic would be diverted, we would estimate 340+cars would be diverted northerly and enter the residential area via Hillside; and this would compound the circulation within this residential area. One of the things to consider at this juncture is typically when a decision is made to provide access inevitably at least within the policy dictates of the City of Orange, the public street always has preference. The +counter to this of course is that the traffic volumes per se are significantly different. 2. The counter option to serving the shopping center would be to provide a raised island and a left-turn pocket that would service northbound tra.f�c on Santiago and thus allowing a left turn onto Brookside. As with Brookside this kind of a configuration would restrict a central island in the shopping center to a right-in and right-out operation. The difference perhaps between the two situations is that to gain access to the central island southbound motorists have one opportunity to access the shopping center via an existing driveway generally at their north property line. I would give you the fact that this not �preferential drive for two principal reasons. It provides service area for shopping center; and the way the shopping center is constructed it r�vould require a serpentine move to get into the main shopping area. Also a secondary access exists southerly of the central point at a location of about 600 ft. southerly. Under this concept neither of these access points would be restricted in any way; lef�-turns storage would still be available for the left turn moves as well as full egress out onto Santiago Blvd. 3. To service the shopping center would be via a left turn at the signalized intersection of Santiago Blvd. and Wanda Rd., and the entering of the shopping of�'Santiago Blvd. (the east-west Santiago.) : 9 � CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of ReQular Meeting - April 13, 1994 4. Another option exists in the form of traffic signalization. About 12-13 years ago the city had a similar situation at the intersection of Cana1-Meats-Greengrove (i.e. an intersection configuration that was off-set the wrong way), we have, we feel, successfully signalized that intersection and we have sent construction drawings of that all over the country, it has worked very well in consideration of geometry that we had to work with. 5. The ne�rt option that the Commission may wish to consider is that based on the accident history a non-problem. Do the existing conditions justify the expense of$IO-14,000 for the construction of a raised island to serve either driveway; or to spend $75,000 to construct a traffic signal and then continue to support that signal at the rate of$400 a month. Th�se are some of the options the Commission may wish to consider. As far as a sta.ff recomrnendation, we feel that given the conditions of the multiple access points of the shopping center off Santiago Blvd. and the fact that Brookside is indeed, as I indicated, a public street our recommendation is that if a control feature is to be initiated that it should be a raised island providing left turn storage and left turn accessibility to Brookside via Santiago Blvd. We have received correspondence from the City of V'�la Park and obviously have discussed this issue with them at length over a period of time. V'illa Park is opposed to the recommendation that I have currently made. V'illa Park has, however, indicated a willingness to participate in both the construction costs and maintenance costs of a traffic signal at this intersection. This concludes my report, I will be happy to answer arty questions the Commission mary have. Commissioner Sciarra-What is the accident count at this intersection to date? Bernie Dennis -We've had six traffic accidents reported here in the last seven years; three of which are directly attributable to activity within the intersection. In all likelihood the users to be penalized, and unfortunately in either case, whether it be relative to providing access to Brookside or denying access to the Ralph's Shopping Center, will perhaps to a large degree, be Orange residents. I would think primarily due to the street system coming out onto Santiago Blvd. from the City of V'illa Park. Commissioner Leming opened the public hearing for comments and the following discussion on this item. Bob Purcell, 2801 Lakeside Ave. - I've lived here for 30 years and the big problem is the increase in traffic and speed on Santiago. There have been several smaller accidents that obviously haven't been reported by several of the residents around there. We think the left turn into Brookside and doing nothing to Ralph's except stopping that left turn would not ± af�ect Ra.lph's and would possibly save lives in the near future. , lo CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular MeetinQ - Aarii 13, 1994 Bob Mannin�, 1638 N. Fern St. -My street is the dead-end of Brookside and we've been there 30 years and have had access from Santiago onto Brookside and there are alot of cars that do come out of the shopping center making a left-turn onto Santiago as well as left-turn into the shopping center. If there was access only into Brookside you would cut down the traffic that was crossing the street and eliminate some possibilities of accidents. There are three other access points into the center and when they remodeled I was under the impression they were going to close that access point anyway. Darvl Hansen, 1676 N. Fern St. - I have lived here 23 years. My position on that intersection is of mixed emotions, I agree that it is a problem. I travel Santiago Blvd. coming home from work and probably turn left into Brookside from Santiago at least 1- 1'/z times daily. I'm familiar with the intersection but the irritation I find is from people coming southbound on Santiago feel that they have the right to take over that little left- turn pocket which is currently designed as access for Brookside. If there is a decision to make a change I would be in favor of the island with left turn access into Brookside. If you elirninate this left trirn those of us in Orange would be very unhappy as we would have to go down to Taft Ave. to make a left and then go over to Fern St. and make another left to get into the tract, this would dramatically increase traffic through this neighborhood. Given that fact plus that there is additional access points for those entering the shopping center, I feel that the least inconvenience would occur if that left turn into the shopping center were eliminated. Brian McCaleb 2603 E. Brookside Ave. -I have lived here for 8 years. I have discussed this issue with several neighbors who are unable to be here today and our order of preference is as follows: aj maintaining status quo; they do not see this as enough of a significant problem to require action by the city or expenditure of tax dollars. . b) re-striping or raised dots or�signage to prevent southbound traffic on Santiago from entering or transiting the existing left-turn pocket which serves Brookside from Santiago. c) if more significant action is required we would prefer that southbound traffic on Santiago be prevented from turning left into the shopping c�nter driveway; we are opposed to the removal of left tvrn access from Santiago into Brookside insofar as the Villa Park Shopping Center now has 3 driveways which connect to north-south Santiago and 2 driveways which connect the center to the east-west extension of Santiago. We feel that the left-t�xm access to only one of these driveway does not significantly impair public access to the shopping center. d) All residents I spoke with were in agTeement with the fact that any decision made by the CTC should be in favor of traffic circulation of City of Orange residents rathex than City of Villa Park commercial establishments. 11 CI1'Y TRAFFTC COMMISSION Minutes o,f Regular Meeting - Apri113, 1994 Barry Denes, 9881 Wildwood Wav Villa Park , a,yor of Citv of Villa Park�-I would like to address several of the issues raised: 1)Volumes and does a problem e�st-If you're one of the 3 or 6 people who have had an accident on Santiago Blvd. there is a problem, but you have 20,000 cars a day on this street. Of those 20,000 cars 342 use Brookside and 1,340 pull into the Ralph's Shopping Center. A point I would like to make is those 1,340 have got to go into Ra1ph's someplace and if they go to the driveway further south or if they go down to the signal yo�'re still going to have 1,340 people on that street ttyir►g to get in. We do not think the problem justifies making any change at this time, however, if you feel you have to we would ask that you continue to talk with us and look further into a signal at this location. This shopping center is a key source of revenue for our city and we need as many of our customers to continue to patronize us for some of that revenue, not at the cost of public safety,I would ask that you consider that. Commissioner Sciarra - Would the shopping center consider moving that driveway to align it directly across from Brookside? Barry Denes-We haven't had any conversation with them regarding that suggestion. 7oseph Chavez, 2711 E. Lakeside Ave. - I have been involved in an accident at this intersection and I was hit by a delivery truck coming out of the shopping center, I didn't report the accident due to the fact that it was of minor property damage and no injuries were sustained. There are alot of children and other pedestrians crossing the street there so that makes it very dif�icult and there is nothing to protect pedestrians there. Secondly, on driving in and out of Brookside it is very di�cult to see vehicles approaching on Santiago there is a curve and a block wa11 which dimiriishes sight distance so you have to move out into Santiago and this isn't always safe. The island may help and I think it is an improvement; but the best thing would be a traf�c signal because it helps pedestrians as well as the motorists. William Sniezico, 2701 E. Brookside Ave. - I've been here for 18 years. It would be much better if the people would go down to the signal go left on Santiago and then they can drive right into the parking lot instead of driving in front of the stores where people are walk�ng across with the carts, it's very dangerous because people don't slow down. Adele Doran, 2817 E. Lakeside Ave. - I patronize this shopping center and regardless of any changes you make I will cantinue to shop there and I will not go down to the Ralph's down in Orange simply because there is so much traf.�c anyway that I don't want to take the time to do that. Many people go down to the other driveways, I don't think closing this particular driveway will keep people from shopping at this Ralph's store, going another 100 yards to enter the center won't make a difference to them at all people will continue to shop there. A signal would be nice but orily because I think that brings more commercialized things into an area where you want to keep it not quite so commercial as at Tustin and Katella. 12 ' CTTY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes, of Regular Meeting' Aprit,_ 19�4 Tim Fessler, Vice-President Construction of Ral�h's Groce , Store - Ralph's doesn't wish to inconvenience in any way the residents to the west of shopping center, however, we believe the 4:1 traffic counts reflect the majority of opinion of the residents/customers in the area. We are opposed to removing the southbound access from Santiago Blvd. to the shopping center and would encourage the removal of northbound access from Santiago to Brookside only if the city deemed that some action was necessary and that a tra�c signal was not appropriate. We believe that the situation does not actually require a change. Before any action is taken I would ask that some consideration to the traffic flow within the shopping center. In 1991 we reviewed the possibility of realigning the driveway to be across from Brookside(shows site pla.n of center and it's driveway's)it would go right into a "Tee" intersection with some small shops and then people would have to make a quick ri g ht an d a quick left and it doesn't work. � We would encourage that you do check perhaps full warrants for a traf�ic signat, we don't feel perhaps that it's really necessary but perhaps in this situation it could be the best possible solution if any action at all is required. �th me today is 1Viike Blackwell, District Manager of Ralph's for this general area and our Store Director Ken Admire. Also with us is Robert Kahn who is a Traf�ic Engineer that we hired in 1991 to review the situation when it was last considered and also we've asked him to look at it again. Our consensus a,greement is that there really isn't a severe problem with this situation. Perhaps the best thing would be to either leave it alone or to consider a traffic signal. Bud Ouist, City Engineer - Citv of Villa Park - I've worked with Bernie Dennis in regard to this intersection over a period of time. I'm aware that Brookside tract was built back in the 1960's and the shopping center wasn't built until the early 1970's. These intersections and these driveways have worked effectively for many years and the problem that we're having right now is two-fold; one is volume, but the biggest is speed. The traffic on Santiago Blvd. has increased significantly in velocity and speed. Quite frankly if this street were in my city I would take measures to reduce th� speed on Santiago Blvd. and I'm not even sure that I would approach the idea of left turn pockets and a signal but I would pursue speed reduction. The City of Villa Park obviously doesn't want the restriction of left turns into that driveway of the shopping center, I don't even think that should be a consideration. After the speed is reduced then we could laok at it again. Commissioner Lemin� - Do you think that as soon as we get Loma open it will reduce some of that trai�c? Bud uist-It could be reduced, but you still have the problem of speed. Fred Male,y. Citv Mana e� r " City of Villa Park -People southbound on Santiago seem to feel that there is a prior right into the center vis a vi the northbound left turn into residential areas. Northbound you're coming off a reverse curve, you've got a sharp turn and the visibility northbound in that area is poor while coming southbound there you have 13 � ' CITY TR�4FFTC COMMISSION Minutes of Re ular Meetin - A ril 13 1994 � a straight alignment so I think people pull into the left turn que with alot more visibility � ; than they do from the north. We would be willing if necessary to consider the traf�c �ignal, if some construction is required in favor of any restriction on turning movements. In that same line I think I would be more than willing to immediately recommend to the City Council that we, the City of V'illa Park, restrict left-turns out of the shopping center at that driveway and possibly the ones south of there because it's on the curve itsel� prohibit left turns exiting and that may help to some extent to relieve the traffic. Certainly �omeone who wants to go southbound on Wanda at that point could exit the east-west leg Qf Santiago at the signalized intersection or at any one of the entrances along the east-west af the center and go the signalized intersection to make their left turn and go south to I�atella and I think that would help. The merchants, I feel, could live with that and it �ould be safer for their patrons. � There are alot of other historical issues regarding this phoneme, I think some are argumentative it's difficult I think we need further study between the staffs of the two �ities before a fa:ir and viable recommendation could be made to the Commission. Bob Patchen MaYor ProTem - Citv of Villa Park - One thing has been nussed today; we �ave traf�ic counts but we don't have an incident count, and all of this talk is about �otential incidents. I think it would orily be fair, before anything is done, that somebody �tand there and watch how many incidents we have (turn lane conflicts) how many times �as somebody inconvenienced because of this clash of the wrong way left turns. What �bout the relationship of the Loma connection to Santiago Blvd.? I'm the guy who stands �p at my council meetings and says that when that happens it's going to unload Santiago �1vd. and V'illa Park Rd. because as you must know traffic is turning off to get off the �"ieeway come around on Santiago and turning across into our city to get back out to �amboree and you're exactly right, once that happens it will unload both streets. �arole Walters 534 N. Shaf�'er St. - Some months ago I received a petition from a Brookside resident of 60+ names regarding this intersection and the dangerous conditions a�nd that if anyone was injured/killed here both Orange the Villa Park would be liable. I - �ook this petition to our City Council and they asked me to go to a Council meeting at the �ity of Villa Park, I went to a 7:00 p.m. Council meeting at Villa Park, I handed the petition over to Bob BeII who was the Mayor at that time. Don't you think that after both c�ties have been working on this for 14 years you would have a solution by now? The �rookside residents are important and I think priority should be given to them. � �eddV Shen ard 1663 Oriole Pl -_I've lived here 30 years. We knew as soon as the shopping center was built that the dnveway was going to be a problem for the residents on i Brookside. The residents here really enjoy this shopping center, but all we ask is a safety �argin. �ommissioner Leming closed the public hearing ar»d returned the item to the Commission ,�c�r final discussion arrdlor a motion. 14 � . � CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meeting - Anril 13, 1994 �_.. Commissioner Leming - If the northbound traffic on Santiago could make a left turn into Brookside, what would happen to the tra�c conv:ng out of the shopping center and went northbound just make a'U-Turn', or worse yet, turn onto Brookside and then turn around inside and then come back out because they want to go southbound on Brookside? If we deny them southbound exit, do we have a count of vehicles exitin� the shoppin� c�ater that go southbound? Chuck Glass -Peak Hour turning counts indicate 19 southbound moves (�eft turn) during the noon hour; and 9 were counted during P.M. peak hour making southbound moves. Commissioner Lemine- So those people would make a U-Turn? , Chuck Glass - My guess is that they would take an alternate route if they were going in that direction. They would probably go through the center and come out onto Santiago at the south side of the center and then have a right turn at the signal and go wherever their destination is. Commissioner Lemin� - If we went with this option what is the possibility of posting for 'NO U-TURN? Bernie Dennis - If we went with the raised island we would reduce the width down to where we would have to post it as �No U-Turn'; we need a minimum of 37 ft. to atlow a U-Turn. Commissioner Lemin� - I have a question of Jim Fessler of the Ralph's Construction Division. When you looked at options of moving these driveways in alignment with Brookside you mentioned another driveway 150 ft. from the signal which is not very safe anyway; when you looked at this did you think in terms of moving that in the other direction? Of making the "off-set" geater, which would allow safe turn lanes for both? Jim Fessler-I believe if we did that we be running right into a bank. Commissioner L�-Do you have a site plan of the center? Bernie Dennis - There is a 'through' aisle northerly of the bank about 120 ft. south of the driveway. Tim Fessler - That "Tee's" into that intersection right there and then you have to make a maneuver right or left again. That driveway that is north of those shops only goes to the end of the parapet then you have to go right or left again, that is not a continuous drive across the shopping center. 15 � CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meetin� - Anril 13, 1994 _____ Commissioner Leming - Once they got into the center they would go either right or left, they could go straight part of the way. Could it be redesigned to make it work? By making the off-set greater than it is you might be able to provide a safe spot for each of the needs to be met. Both a southbound left turn lane into the shopping center and also a northbound left turn lane into Brookside. It might be inconver�i�nt, you're not going to go straight into your center, I shop at your center and since you've increased your traffic going through there you have people shooting out of Ralph's and they need to make some turns, that's my personal opinion. I'll tell you because people are going straight through and they're going to Rockwell's or they're going over to the City Hall building and they are not going to stop at Ra1ph's so they just go straight through, making a couple of turns would slow them down a little. Bernie Dennis -, If I may suggest, you and the Commissioner's may wish to make a recornmendation based on whatever you wish to be considered going to the City Council. I suspect what will happen, and this certainly conjecture on my part, that once the CTC makes �recommendation it will go to our City Council and then it will go back to the City of Villa Park/Orange Ad Hoc Committee, and then back to the City Council for public hearing. Commissioner Sciarra - I think that particular option would be a viable solution to this problem and that if the Ralph's Grocery people think this is a viable option we could proceed. Bernie Dennis -If an additional driveway were placed, say at this area, I guess that would also imply in doing so that this center driveway would have to be closed. If not it's counter-productive. Over the past 14 years of trying to find a solution I don't remember if this option has been discussed, with all due respect to Ralph's, they historically have been pretty adamant about how they want their circulation to work. Or at least this is what we have been advised by our counter-parts from the City of Villa Park. , Commissioner Lemin� -Well I think by the number of people that we've had speaking on this issue today, the idea that it's a "non-problem" is just not true. It's at least perceived to be a problem. We've had some accidents, maybe they're not serious injury ones and maybe there have been some unreported, but I think the majority of the residents of the City of Orange perceive this as a problem and I don't think we would be doing our job if we didn't come up with some recommendation. The signa� may not have been discussed enough; the cost is one thing but knowing V'illa Park I'm sure they would be happy to participate and maybe Ralph's would participate or maybe the merchants and the shopping center as a whole would participate in the cost of installing a traffic signal. The question is would a traffic signal really help and how would that affect the traffic on Santiago since you have a signal so close, especially at peak times, are you going to have traffic backing-up? 16 � CI1'Y TRAFFIC C4MMISSI4N Minutes of Regular Meeting - April 13, 1994 __ Commissioner Gibson - Should a signal be installed would they work on driveway and intersection demand or would they be time cycled? Bernie Dennis - The nature of this particular kind of signal can be made as efficient as possible, techrucally, but th� fact remains that the �eometry of the intersection indicates that you have 6 different phases, certainly some of these overlap. The street and the driveway cannot be served at the sa.me time because in a conflict of these kinds of moves in the middle of the intersection the operation is reasonably effycient, it certainly will back traffic up as it cycles around to allow the protected left-turn going in each direction and to serve the driveways. We don't deliberately build that kind of inef�iciency into a signal but the very nature of the operation is because the 2 streets are off-set we can't run them at the same time,therefore we have to run them separately so that automatically adds a minimum � plus the left turns which can't run at the same time, that adds a minimum pf 30 seconds to the operation of the signal, perhaps a little more. Under normal circumstances and based on the flows that we're talking about, yes it would provide protected left-turn phasing out of the driveways, out of the streets and conversely onto the streets. It would most assuredly impact traffic on Santiago. It would be fully trat�ic responsive. Commissioner Gibson-Would it create gridlock at the Wanda signal? Bernie Dennis-I think not. Commissioner Sciarra-The problem with signalization as I see it, not orily would we have a $75,000 cost factor but we're iooking a $5,000 year ma.intenance/service factor that goes with it. The only two viable options that I can see are the raised island providing a left- turn lane onto Brookside; or to relocate the driveway as you have discussed and if the Ralph's people have indicated they haven't considered that closure of the one driveway and relocation irito the center then that would only leave the diagram that Mr. Dennis has shown and we would have to go with the left turn into Brookside. Commissioner Gibson - What is the feasibility of selecting Option A, and at a later time if R.alph's and the shopping center decide to relocate the driveway, reconfigure additional turning space. Commissioner Lemin� -I think Bernie answered that earlier, certainly we can recommend to the City Council a course of action and then include that uriless the City's of Orange and Villa Park and the owners of the Ralph's Center come up with an alternative for the driveway, I think we can do that and at least move the issue forward. Bernie Dennis - I would prefer, if we can, inasmuch as we already have everybody in attendance that we move it forward and let us do the work that you suggested we consi�er and we'll incorporate that into our notification and your action to the City Council and they can do with it as they see fit from there. I would suspect that they would absolutely want to confer with the V'illa Park who would want to confer with Ralph's. 17 r ' CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Re.gular Meeting - Aari113, 1994 _ RECQMMENDATION: I'll make a motion that we go ahead with the raised island and left turn lane into Brookside and eliminate the left turn southbound into the shopping center. MOTION: F. Sciazra SEC4ND: J. Gibson With the addition that the two City's of Orange and V'illa Park and the Ralph's management look into making the off-set greater to allow for both left tum lanes. Bernie Dennis-Before you call for the vote, I think I recognize your direction and yes, we will accompany your comments and recommendation to the City Council with, whatever can be developed regarding the relocation of that driveway to the south. I think that the concept of doing an'incident count'is valid and I think we should probably do that, I think that is a very reasonable request. I think also the concept of what will the street look like when Loma is open,which we have a reasonably good feeling as to what that will be, but I think that would enter into what magnitude of cost would be most appropriate at this time. If we're looking at a situation that the traffic is going to go down dramatic�lly, perhaps the expenditure of a lesser amounts of money in the form of channelization would be more reasonable than a very expensive signal. I think the point that the points that have been brought up both by the residents of the City of Orange and certainly by V'illa Park and their staff should be incorporated into our recommendation to the City Council and we will do that. AYES: Unanimous Commissioner LeminE-When will this go to the City Council? Bernie Dennis-Under our new format all agenda items are scheduled by the City Manager and City Clerk, as appropriate. � F. Review Summary and Amendments to the Brown Act which became effective April 1, 1994, as it applies to the CTC. Bernie Dennis - Unfortunately, our City Attorney is not in attendance and I suspect we will have to defer this item to our next meeting. Commissioner Lemin� -In that case I'm going to pull this item from the Agenda and we'll � review this next month. 18 y ' r 1 L ` CI1'Y TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meetin� - April 13, 1994 IV. ORAL PRESENTATIUNS PUBLIC PARTICIPATION - At the conclusion of the meeting on items listed in today's Agenda, members of the public may address the City Traffic Commission regarding items of interest to the public that ar�e within the subject jurisdiction of the City Traffic Commission. There were no other presentations made. V. ADJOI:IRNMENT Discussion of all items before the CTC being complete, and there being no further requests for action under Oral Presentation, Commissioner Leming adjourned this session of the City Traf�c Conunission to it's next regular meeting, which is scheduled to be held on May 11, 1994. Respectfully submitted, Phyllis Then Recording Secretary Tra�c Engineering Division (714)744-5536 File Nsme:April(Disk�l3B) 19 , MEMORANDUM May 10, 1994 TO: Honorable Mayor and Members of the City Council THRU: David Dixon, City Manager FROM: Bernie Dennis,Traffic Engineer SUBJECT: Center Street and Palm Avenue Agenda Item 2-6 It has come to our attention that a resident in the subject intersection area may not have received proper notification of the Traffic Commission's total action regarding this matter. As the party could be impacted by the Commission's recommendations, I request that this item be removed from the City Council's agenda and returned to staff for clarification. BWD:dr