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01-12-1994 - Minutes TC �µ��' E .�� _. sh;s,, .. . CITY OF ORANGE MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Date of Meeting: January 12, 19� ROLL CALL-PRESENT-CONIMISSIONERS: D.Yarger,7. Fortier,B. Leming,F. Sciarra PRESENT-STAFF: B.Dennis,Lt. E. Tunstall, C. Glass,D. Allenbach, B.Herrick I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES November 10, 1993 - APPROVE as published by Recording Secretary. MOTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: Unanimous II. CONSENT CALENDAR 1. Request for the eztension of a 'NO PARKING' zone located between 149 &203 E. Lincoln Ave. Samuel W.Holcomb Angelus Travel 149 E.Lincoln Ave. Orange, CA 92665 There was no discussion of this item. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC,by motion APPROVE the request. MOTION: B.Leming SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meeting: January 12, 1994 2. Request for the removal of °NO PARKING ANYTIME' restrictions on both sides of Walnut Ave. westerly of Prospect St. Christine Herriott,Association Manager Action Property Management,Inc. 701 S.Parker St., Suite 1600 Orange, CA 92668 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this request. Comments were made by an unidentified member of the audience, as he was speaking from the floor and not into the microphone, his comments were incoherent. There were no other comments and Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for a Motion. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC,by motion DENY the request. MOTION: J.Fortier SECOND: F. Sciarra � AYES: Unanimous III. CONSIDERATION ITEMS A. Recommend guidelines for the installation of SPEED HUMPS on public streets in the City of Orange. Traffic Engineering Division City of Orange We would like to continue this item to our next regular meeting. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC,by motion CONTINUE the request. MOTION: B.Leming SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: Unanimous 2 CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meeting: January 12, 1994 B. Request for the installation of a traffic signal at the intersection of Bedford Rd. and Main Place Dr. June Butler,Assistant Property Manager PM Realty Group 5 00 S.Ma.in Street, Suite 101 Orange, CA 92668 Oral presentation was based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this item. ���ai.�D�r�s9 �ity Tr�f'ic Eng��er - 1'l�e applicant is a bus�ess pe�son a�t1�e Ci� of O�ange, the subject intersection is in the City of Santa.Ana. The appropriate action, I feel, would be to forward this request to the City of Santa.Ana via the TSIA-JPA for incorporation into the Bedford Loop Road study. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC,by motion FORWARD the request to the City of Santa Ana. MOTION: B. Leming SECOND: J.Fortier AYES: Unanimous C. Request for the installation of a warning flasher on Canyon View Ave. westerly of Outrider St. Gadi Vasquez Orange County Board of Supervisors 10 Civic Center Plaza Santa.Ana, CA 92701 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report,please refer to your copy. There was no discussion on this item. Comrnissioner Lemin� - Although I think through other information received the budget impact might be alot less. My concern would be tha,t the cost of it according to this recommenda.tion that was presented to us is between $6-7,000 and that those kind of dollars knowing that the financial constraints the City is in whether or not they could be spent in other areas or on other projects #1. I have no problem with the sign that says, 'WATCH DOWNHILL SPEED' with maybe reflectors for night that type of thing but whether or not..... but to go out and spend$2,000 -$3,000 or up to $7,000 for a flasher at this time when there has only been a couple of accidents over the last few years I'm not so sure, and one of them was due to a DUI, I think you could have had a millio� flashers out there and p�obably wouldn't ha.ve prevented that accident. From that standpoint what would the actual cost of the flasher be? And could be not go to another sign with maybe reflectors? 3 CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meetin�: January 12, 1994 Bernie Dennis, City Traffic Engineer-Perhaps you may want to go ahead and approve this request but place a cap on the amount of money spent to implement that. $3,000 would be sufficient. Commissioner Lemin� - How much more effective is a flasher vs. signage? The only reason I bring it up is that I recall driving on alot of streets where you see 'WATCH DOWNHILL SPEED' and there is not flasher but they stand out, would those.....is there any ..... I assume the flasher is that much more effective I guess..... Bernie Dennis -The flashers as opposed to signs;I don't know of any qualitive study that has been done that indicated flashers, after a period of time, are any more valuable or any more effective than a conventional sign. Obviously the first time,the first 5 or 10 times that you see a flasher it attracts your attention as do most regulatory signs, after an exposure period to a flasher or almost any kir�d of a device you'mentally'don't see it any more. �ou�o�v "t�iat it's�e�e." Ho�r r�u�h attention do you pay to the flashers on Tustin St.now? Commissioner Lemin�-I don't really notice them that much. Bernie Dennis -Subconsciously you know that they're there. But maybe in it's own right that ha.s a particular value because realistically I don't know that you're trying to forewarn people who are famliar with the roadway but perhaps you are attempting to notify people lst, Znd or 3rd time users that you've got a potentially hazardous condition coming up. Maybe in that respect a flasher � is beneficial. Commissioner Lemin� - I just wonder if ti would be more .... just as effective of like I say of insta.11ing a sign and see how it works for the next 12 months or a year, you can always use the sign, I mean if you have to go back and put a flasher on I assume the sign would be adequate that you would end up atta.ching it to the flasher, I only bring it up for discussion in knowing wha.t the City has been going through over the last 2 years as far as budget and my feeling is we're not out of the woods yet either. Commissioner Sciarra-In light of the fact that we did have 2 accidents there in a short period of time since that area ha.s been open it's possible that we should have a flasher. I think$3,000 is a lot of money but I think it's worth it if it does anything by holding down any more accidents in that area it would be well worth it's cost. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion APPROVE the request to insta.11 a flashing warning light on Canyon View Ave. at Outrider St., and that we put a spending cap not to exceed$3,000 on said insta.11ation. MOTION: F. Sciarra Vice-Chairman Fortier-I know there are flashers in different parts of the city for different reasons and I've been on that roa.d and is it your opinion that it is of a safety nature that a flasher would be the best vehicle to curta.il the speed or warn the driver that there is a hill there? I drive over the crest and I see it's a big hill, I put the brake on, I don't need a flasher and that's why when we reviewed tha.t I asked if it was that dangerous enough to warrant a flasher. To me it ha,s to be something really dangerous that somebody can't foresee that could cause them a problem, that is ' my opinion of where a flasher is warranted. As I drove Canyon View Ave. I saw it was a big hill and I put the brake on as I drove down it. 4 CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meeting: January 12, 1994 Bernie Dennis - That's a point well taken. About 85% of the things we do is for 10% of the population or the public. Vice-Chairman Fortier-Once you put a flasher here and somebody sees that flasher, and they say I live over here in Nohl Canyon I've got a big hill there and if they have a flasher I should have a flasher and on we go. Commissioner Lemin� -I still would be in favor of trying the insta.11ation of a sign and testing it's effectiveness. Commissioner Sciarra -The only problem I can see with that, and if that's true then we don't need flashe�� a�g�here�t�e Ci�all g�ou'd have�do is have con�entional signs e�e�here. �ut you know flashers do have an effect on drivers and I think the Police Dept. would probably concur. Commissioner Lemin� -Again to, I think the flasher for those people who come in and out of the side streets on that gives you a false sense of secuirty inasmuch as oh it's like a light", and I think that's the problem you have on Tustin Ave. I think that flasher,if we're relating it to other flashers throughout the city, gives the people using the crosswalk as some kind of a safety feature and you could end up having more accidents cause you have people who say, "well there°s a flahser there're going to be watching a little more carefully,'°and they're not. Cha.irman Yarger-We have a motion on the floor,I will second that motion. SECOND: D.Yarger AYES: 2 NOES: 2 Motion does not carry. RECOMMENDATION: That we APPROVE the installation of a'DOWNHII.L SPEED'sign at that location without the flasher to whatever spec's. staff would recommend. MOTION: B.Leming SECOND: J.Fortier AYES: 2 NOES: 1 ABSTAIN: 1 Commissioner Lemin�-What would be the cost for a sign insta.11ation of this type? Dave Allenbach-We can do a sign installation for approximately$100. Vice Cha.irman Fortier - We can put in the sign and if it doesn't do the job we can renew the request and perha.ps put in a flaher at a later da,te. I really opposed to flashers and neon signs for STOP signs. 5 CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of Regular Meeting: January 12, 1994 IV. ORAL PRESENTATIONS PUBLIC PARTICIPATION - At the conclusion of the meeting of items listed on this agenda., members of the public ma.y address the City Traffic Commission regarding items of interest to the public that are within the subject jurisdiction of the CTC. Nothing by members of the audience. 1. Bernie Dennis - Next month we'll be before you, in a11 likleihood, with the revised speed zone surveys. As most of you know by now we've reevaluated the entire city and will make recommenda.tions in accordance with the Appellate Gourt d��ision of 3 mon�s a�o9 wh�x�as sp��d limits have to be posted within 5 miles per hour of the 85th Percentile speed to be able or to quality for speed enforcement by rada.r. This could really be a barn burner. There are going to be some very interesting changes, it could well be extremely expensive to the city. Just as an example, it will cost us $6,000 to change Tustin St. alone, if we change it and in all likelihood we will. We ha.ve 198 street speed zone segments that Dave ha.s re-evaluated and the format you will see, the document you will get is dense and it will be submitted to the Court upon our Counsel approval. For example the folks on Bata.via St. who for years and years have fought for their 30 MPH speed limit are going to be in for, I suspect, a very interesting surprise and the folks on Santiago Blvd., the folks on Chapman Ave. and a number of other streets will also be surprised. , We will just about get that done in time to make the switch to the metric system. 2. Commissioner Lemin� - I understand ne�month that we're going to be losing our sta.ff attorney, are we going to have a replacement, and I think the Commission ought to thank Bob for the work he's done for us in the past. Bob Herrick, Asst. Cit,y AttorneX-I will miss you, but I will not miss the commute it takes to get here. Bernie Dennis -I think that a motion by the Commission commending Mr. Herrick for his devoted and dedicated efforts on to the City Council would be in order. MOTION: D.Yarger SECOND: B. Leming AYES: Unanirnous V. ADJOURNMENT Discussion of all items before the City Traffic Commission being complete, and there being no further requests for action under Ora1 Presenta.tion, Cha.irman Yarger adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission to it's next regular meeting,which is scheduled for February 9,1994. Respectfully submitted, Phyllis Then Recording Secretaxy File Name: 7anuary Disk#3B 6