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04-12-1995 - Minutes TC r .�� t �;, . i� :� CITY OF ORANGE y` _ :s,� ,�. CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting Anril 12, 1995 I. OPENING A. Pledge of Ailegiance To The Flag c�s c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 B. ROLL CALL: Present - Commissioners: D. Yarger, J. Gibson, 6. Leming, F. Sciarra Absent - Commissioners: J. Fortier Present - Staff: B. Dennis, C. Glass, Sgt. S. Gable, P. Then Absent - Staff: D. Allenbach, W. Winthers c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�s c�s c�3 c�c�s c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 cr3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 C. APPROVAL OF MINUTES • Minutes are not available at this time. D. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN CONSIDERATION CALENDAR C. Request for intersection evaluation at the intersections of Spring St./Esplanade St. and Spring St./Seranado St. RECOMMENDATION: Continue this item to the May 10, 1995, CTC meeting. MOTION - B. Leming SECOND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous -i- , Minutes of a Reaular Meetin� - Citv Traffic Commission - Anril 12, 1995 . II. CONSENT CALENDAR A. Request for 'NO PARKING 7:00 A.M. - 6:00 P.M., MONDAY THRU FRIDAY' on the north side of Fairway Dr. in front of the Rehabilitation Institute (R01). Praim S. Singh 1800 E. LaVeta Ave. Orange, CA 92666 Chairman Yargei - lndicated he would have to abstain from voting on this request as it represents a conflict of interest to him. Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the pub/ic hearing for the following discussion of this request. There was one speaker in favor of the request whose concerns are noted as follows: Unidentified Speaker - 2367 Braedon Court, Orange That alley is used for delivery with alot of big truck-trailers having problems going in and out; probably red curb on either side of the alley would be sufficient for our needs. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request but APPROVE the installation of a driveway vision zones. MOTION - B. Leming SECOND - J. Gibson AYES - Gibson, Leming, Sciarra ABSTAIN - Yarger Iit. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR A. Request for '3-Hour' parking restriction in the South Qrange Street Municipal Parking Lot. John Robertson, Chief of Police . CITY QF ORANGE Oral presentation is based on the written staff �eport, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the fol%wing discussion of this request. There was one speaker in favor of the request, her concems are as follows: Marg►aret Greinke - 16252 Jackson Ranch Rd., Silverado -Assistance League We're asking for a S 1,200 credit or ten "free" parking permits per year. We provide needed low cost dental service for school children, free clothing for school children and other services through proceeds raised from our Thrift Store and various fund raising events; all of this money stays in the City o# Orange. An expenditure of S 1,200 per year would dramatically affect our budget in a negative way. -2- , Minutes of a Re4ular Meetin� - Citv Traffic Commission - A�ril 12, 1995 � III. C�NSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.y There was one speaker onnosing the request, his concerns are as follows: Carro!/Johnson - 100 S. Glassell St. -Downtown Business Association Moving from 2 to 3 hours is going to absolutely inundate the parking lots. if � you have 100 customers trying to come to your store today and you can't find parking because the permit parking areas are all full by other organizations you won't have any parking left over for individuals that wish to patronize the stores in the downtown area. The Municipal Parking Lot on Lemon St. is terrific but not alot of the women want to walk that far so we're back to the same problem again. We've tried 3 hours and 4 hours in the parking lots but it didn't work. Please don't let one organization have preferential treatment over the rest of the downtown area, each one of those businesses will do between $100 to $500,000 business a year and they are willing to pay for their parking permits but they expect to have a place to park. I don't feel a philanthropic group should be given preferential benefit for their volunteerism, that is their choice. Chairman Yarger c%sed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for final discussion and/or a motion. Bernie Dennis - One option the CTC may wish to consider is once again to continue this until another meeting. We will be happy to meet independently with the Assistance League to discuss permits. We've sent copies of our recommendations to all of the folks that would be involved the Antique Association, Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Business Assoc. and the only folks that responded were the Assistance League. We don't feel that 3 hour parking expansion is a good idea; we know that 2 hours work in conjunction with the permits. We're extremely leery about the aspects of deferral of 50 parking spaces for new businesses. We have to recognize the fact that parking space is a scarce commodity each one of those stalls has a value from S 10-512,000 if they could be replaced, and they can't be. � � Chairman Yarger - If the Assistance League were to received contribution dedicated for the purchase of parking permits only, would there be space within the permit parking area of the municipal parking lot for them to utilize? Commissioner Leming - We all know there is a problem with parking in the Old Towne area and somewhere along the line the Planning Commission and the City Council is going to have to address that issue. I don't think S 1,200 a year for 10 parking permits is unreasonable, even for a non-profit organization. When I shop or visit an area in another community that is impacted by parking i have to pay to park, the merchants no longer provide "free" parking for their customers, but that is my choice. I think that when you allow businesses to come in to an area and you don't , provide enough parking you're affecting all the other businesses because people aren't going to come back and shop at your store if they can't find a parking spot. -3- Minutes of a Regular Meeting - Citv Traffic Commission - Anril 12, 1995 , iil. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR tCont'd.} RECOMMENDATION: That the request for '3 Hour' parking restriction in the S. Orange Street Municipal Parking Lot be denied. MOTION - D. Yarger SECOND - J. Gibson AYES - Unanimous Chairman Yarger - Also, I will make a $100 contribution to the Assistance League to be utilized for the purchase of a parking permit for the municipal parking lot. And I will also be more than willing to see if there are more business people that are willing to contribute funds toward the purchase of parking permits for the Assistance League. Commissioner Leming - I would like to make a Minute Order in the form of a letter to the Planning Commission, that the CTC has a concern that the Planning Commission has approved or is about to approve a number of projects without requiring the applicant to provide the minimum number of parking spaces for their operation. Also, that the City should consider some type of parking structure in the Old Towne area even though they have to find some alternate ways to finance its construction. MOTION - B. Lemming SECOND - D. Yarger . � AYES - Unanimous B. Request for the installation of a traffic signal at the intersection of Heim Ave. and Orange-Olive Rd. Vern Rasmussen 1631 1 Fellows Dr. Orange, CA 92665 O�al presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the fol%wing discussion of this request. There was one speaker in favor of the request, his concerns are as follows: Yern Rasmussen - 16311 Fellows Dr., Orange Once a week I help kids crossing the street, the last time I counted cars going westbound making a left turn onto Heim there were 27 cars in line and there is by far more cars there today. Because of the ditches on Heim it isn't possible to have a right-turn only lane. St. Paul's Lutheran School presently has 375 students and the enrollment is to increase by 65 students this Fall and most of them get to school by car. Bernie Dennis - What do you think the attitude is of the residents along the south side of Heim relative to annexing to the City? Vern Rasmussen - I've never really asked them. I don't see where it makes any difference. Bernie Dennis - Jere Murphy, Advanced Planner for the city is now in charge of annexation activity. Mr. Rasmussen and I tried to make contact with Mr. Murphy earlier taday, however, he wasn't in, but we will try to put Mr. Rasmussen in touch with Jere Murphy regarding possible annexation. -a- Minutes of a Re�ular Meetina - Ciri Traffic Commission - April 12, 1995 111. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.f There were two (2) speakers ooaosing the request, their concerns are as follows: Caroln Svensson, 2456 Lore Ln. - Because my house backs up to Orange- Olive Rd. t realiy don't want a signal there. With a 45 MPH speed limit the prospect of cars hitting their brakes just outside isn't pleasant, even with the wall because the noise is already intense. If the County were to put in additional lanes on Heim it would solve the problem: The problem occurs when people are taking their kids to school or picking them up. I can say from talking with my neighbors on Fellows Dr. that they wouldn't mind being annexed into the city. Sabrina Green, 603 E. Heim Ave. - I'm 2 houses east of the intersection. From the letter I received in the mail about today's meeting until listening to , the discussion this afternoon I have completely changed my opinion. I was in favor of the signal because there was a large back-up ot traffic especially on weekends with the Mall traffic and with the school traffic; however, we have noticed an extreme difference in the amount-of traffic since the sports facility was built on Canal and Meats. We like having no curbs and sidewalks, we don't want the street widened, we like the street being as quiet as it can be and adding all those extra things will encourage traffic to use our street more that it is and we don't want it to become a 4-lane road. Bernie Dennis - Just as a matter of clarification. When we're talking improvements from the City of Orange perspective, we're not talking about widening it any more than what you see on the street now. Sabrina Green - To get a left-turn lane it would have to be widened. Bernie Dennis - If you're standing in your front yard and you look to the left and you see the location where there is curb, gutter and sidewalk now that's what we're talking about; and with having the County own the street it's their call. Chairman Yarger c%sed the public hearing and returned item to the Commission for fina/comments and/or a motion. Commissioner Gibson - I don't believe a traffic signal is warranted, I think you would find heavier traffic accessing that particular intersection being protected with a signal. I would like to see that intersection improved by the County, perhaps there might be Measure M funds available the County could use I think an improvement is warranted but 1 don't think a traffic signal is at this time. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request. ' MOTION - J. Gibson SECOND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous -5- . Minutes of a Reaular Meetin4 - Ciri Traffic Commission - Aaril 12, 1995 , lII. CONStDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.� C. Request for intersection evaluation at the intersections of Spring St./Esplanade St. and Spring St./Seranado St. Gordon Schott, Principal Nancy Murray, Principal Esplanade Elementary School EI Modena High School 381 N. Esplanade St. 3920 Spring St. Orange, CA 92669 Orange, CA 92669 RECOMMENDATION: That this item be continued to the May 10, 1995, CTC meeting. MOTION - B. Leming SECOND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous D. Request for westbound 'U' Turns on Chapman Ave. between Tustin St. and Wayfield St. Bob Smith AI Unsers Auto Care 13729 Rosecrans Ave. Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670 Chuck Glass, Traffic Engineer gave the following oral report on this request. This is a request from the owner of the property at the northeast corner of Chapman/Wayfield where there is currently an auto center approved, the request is for U Turns on Chapman Ave. essentially west of Wayfield. The � basis for the request is to reduce the amount of left-#urning traffic that would be utilizing the Mobil Station driveway. I would like to point out that currently Wayfield is restricted to right-turn only onto Chapman Ave. and left-turns are prohibited. At the present time the Mobil station has left-turn ingress or egress. We . have determined, that the request in essence is already approved, that is to say that U Turns currently are allowed on Chapman. The proponent is asking for some additional signing, pavement markings, raised median to promote U Turns. It is our opinion, in our recommendation, that two things should be done: . . 1) Since the request itself is already in place that the request be received and filed; and 2) As far as any request for additional signs, pavement markings it would be our opinion that none of this should be approved or installed until such time as the auto center is in place and operational where we could really evafuate traffic conditions in the area. One of the reasons we are hesitate to get into the business of installing 'U Turn OK' signs is that it would set some sort of a precedent where in theory we could be doing this all up and down Tustin St. or other business corridors. This segment of Chapman, strictly by definition in the CVC, is not eonsidered a "business district". -6- , Minutes of a Reaular Meetinc - Ciri Traffic Commission - A�ril 12, 1995 � fil. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.) Chairman Ya�ger opened the public hearing for the fol%wing discussion of this request. � Joe Foust, Austin-Foust & Associates, Inc. (2020 N. Tustin Ave., Santa Ana, CA) Traffic Engineers for the applicant. - I am requesting a change in the on-street markings or putting in signs that 'U Turn OK' or pavement markings but no other modifications either to medians or lane channelization lines. Developer will pay for the work. Extensive discussion of this request ensued, a few of the points made are as fo/%ws: � Commissioner Gibson - I'm cautious from a liability standpoint to allow signs to be instatled. � Commissioner Leming - What about opposing traffic in the continuous left- turn lane and potentia! for head-on conflicts. Mel Berkeley, AI Unsers Auto Center - tt hurts us from a customer service basis when its hard to exit; it doesn't endear us to our neighbor at the Mobil station. Bob Smith, AI Unsers Auto Center - We were aware of the U Turn problem when we started this project, however, we cannot continue the project without this U Turn since our financing will be cut off without it. �ur lender wants positive identification that can't be taken away. Bernie Dennis - We ca:n never guarantee that. What happens if 5 years from now the City Council decides they want to install a raised island here? They will have, in ess�nce, taken it away. That is the purview of any City Council at any time. Commissioner Sciarra - This situation is exactly what occurs when you come out of the Post Office on Tustin St./Quincy Ave. When you leave the Post Office you have to turn right as (eft turns are prohibited and everybody that wants to go Ieft when they leave the Post Office turns right and then makes a U Turn at Adams, and they make this move without signage. Bernie Dennis - The recommendation is to wait until the center opens and � then review the traffic conditions before we make a decision. Joe Foust - That's okay, this project won't open for another 10-11 months down the road. RECOMMENDATI�N: - That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request to post Chapman Ave. with U Turn permissive signs but would APPROVE the installation of a diagrammatic U Turn permissive sign on Wayfield to serve the subject development. MOTION - B. L�ming, But I would like it to go through the City Attorney's office for review. SECOND - J. Gibson Chairman Yarger - Coming out of Wayfield going easterly on Chapman Ave. we have a left turn pocket for people to turn into Wayfield. What is the distance from the centerline of Wayfield down to;the double line? -�- r Minutes of a Recular Meetina - Citv Traffic Commission - Aorit 12, 'I995 a I11. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.) Bernie Dennis - Roughiy this is about 300 feet. Chairman Yarger - It bothers me is if people come out snd think they can make a U Turn immediately without going into the island area. Commissioner Leming -Then the applicant should re-stripe to make this clear so it isn't confusing to the motorists. AYES - Unanimous E. � Request to establish the speed limit on Loma St. from Serrano Ave. to the north city boundary. City of Orange Traffic Engineering Division 4ral presentation is based on the written staff report, please iefer to your copy. There was no discussion on this item. RECOMMENDATION: That the City Council direct the City Attorney to prepare an amendment to the Ordinance No. 5-94 changing the speed limit on Loma 5t. north of Serrano Ave. to north city limits from 40 MPH to 45 MPH. MOTION - D. Yarger SECOND - f. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous F. Req�est to remove the existing painted crosswalk and associated red curb at 759 N. Eckhoff St. County of Orange 1055 N. Main St., #700 Santa Ana, CA 92701-3fi16 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your cop y. There was no discussion on the item. RECOMMENDATIOM: That the CTC, by motion, APPROVE the request. MOTION - D. Yarger � SECOND - J. Gibson AYES - Unanimous G. Request to remove the existing m�d-block school crosswalk on Orange-Olive Rd. located between Fellows Way and Glendora Ave. City of 4range Traffic Engineering Division Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to you� copy. There was no discussion on this item. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, APPROVE the request. MOTION - B. Leming SECOND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous -s- r Minutes of a Re�uiar Meetin� - Citv Traffic Commission - A�ril 12, 1995 . III. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.� IV. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS No reports were presented. V. ORAL PRESENTATIONS No oral presentations. Vt. ADJQURNMENT Discussion of today's Agenda items for the City Traffic Commission being complete, and there being no further requests for action under Oral Presentation, � the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission to it's next � regular meeting. The next regularly scheduled meeting of the City Traffic Commission will be held on Wednesday - May 10, 1995. Respectfully submitted, , �1�� l Phy ' Then � Recording Secretary City Traffic Commission TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION DEPARTMENT OF PUBLlC WORKS CITY OF ORANGE 300 E. CHAPMAN AVE. ORANGE, CALIFORNIA 92666-1591 PHONE: (714} 744-5536 FAx: (714)7446961 � TAPE #CTC-95.04 OF THIS CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION NIEETING IS AVAILABLF FOR YOUR REVIEW. PLEASE CONTACT THE RECORDING SECRETARY IN THIS REGARD. �IF YOU WISH TO USTEN TO THE TAPE SOME ADVANCE NOTICE WOULD BE APPRECIATE0. File Name: Apr-Min (Disk �8/6-Then) -9-