04-12-1995 - Minutes TC r
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CITY OF ORANGE y`
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CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting Anril 12, 1995
I. OPENING
A. Pledge of Ailegiance To The Flag
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B. ROLL CALL:
Present - Commissioners: D. Yarger, J. Gibson, 6. Leming, F. Sciarra
Absent - Commissioners: J. Fortier
Present - Staff: B. Dennis, C. Glass, Sgt. S. Gable, P. Then
Absent - Staff: D. Allenbach, W. Winthers
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C. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
• Minutes are not available at this time.
D. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN
CONSIDERATION CALENDAR
C. Request for intersection evaluation at the intersections of Spring
St./Esplanade St. and Spring St./Seranado St.
RECOMMENDATION: Continue this item to the May 10, 1995,
CTC meeting.
MOTION - B. Leming
SECOND - F. Sciarra
AYES - Unanimous
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Minutes of a Reaular Meetin� - Citv Traffic Commission - Anril 12, 1995
. II. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Request for 'NO PARKING 7:00 A.M. - 6:00 P.M., MONDAY THRU FRIDAY' on
the north side of Fairway Dr. in front of the Rehabilitation Institute (R01).
Praim S. Singh
1800 E. LaVeta Ave.
Orange, CA 92666
Chairman Yargei - lndicated he would have to abstain from voting on this
request as it represents a conflict of interest to him.
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your
copy. Chairman Yarger opened the pub/ic hearing for the following
discussion of this request.
There was one speaker in favor of the request whose concerns are noted as
follows:
Unidentified Speaker - 2367 Braedon Court, Orange
That alley is used for delivery with alot of big truck-trailers having problems
going in and out; probably red curb on either side of the alley would be
sufficient for our needs.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request but
APPROVE the installation of a driveway vision zones.
MOTION - B. Leming
SECOND - J. Gibson
AYES - Gibson, Leming, Sciarra
ABSTAIN - Yarger
Iit. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR
A. Request for '3-Hour' parking restriction in the South Qrange Street Municipal
Parking Lot.
John Robertson, Chief of Police
. CITY QF ORANGE
Oral presentation is based on the written staff �eport, please refer to your
copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the fol%wing
discussion of this request.
There was one speaker in favor of the request, her concems are as follows:
Marg►aret Greinke - 16252 Jackson Ranch Rd., Silverado -Assistance League
We're asking for a S 1,200 credit or ten "free" parking permits per year. We
provide needed low cost dental service for school children, free clothing for
school children and other services through proceeds raised from our Thrift
Store and various fund raising events; all of this money stays in the City o#
Orange. An expenditure of S 1,200 per year would dramatically affect our
budget in a negative way.
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Minutes of a Re4ular Meetin� - Citv Traffic Commission - A�ril 12, 1995
� III. C�NSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.y
There was one speaker onnosing the request, his concerns are as follows:
Carro!/Johnson - 100 S. Glassell St. -Downtown Business Association
Moving from 2 to 3 hours is going to absolutely inundate the parking lots. if
� you have 100 customers trying to come to your store today and you can't
find parking because the permit parking areas are all full by other
organizations you won't have any parking left over for individuals that wish
to patronize the stores in the downtown area. The Municipal Parking Lot
on Lemon St. is terrific but not alot of the women want to walk that far so
we're back to the same problem again. We've tried 3 hours and 4 hours in
the parking lots but it didn't work. Please don't let one organization have
preferential treatment over the rest of the downtown area, each one of
those businesses will do between $100 to $500,000 business a year and
they are willing to pay for their parking permits but they expect to have a
place to park. I don't feel a philanthropic group should be given preferential
benefit for their volunteerism, that is their choice.
Chairman Yarger c%sed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for final discussion and/or a motion.
Bernie Dennis - One option the CTC may wish to consider is once again to
continue this until another meeting. We will be happy to meet
independently with the Assistance League to discuss permits. We've sent
copies of our recommendations to all of the folks that would be involved the
Antique Association, Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Business Assoc.
and the only folks that responded were the Assistance League. We don't
feel that 3 hour parking expansion is a good idea; we know that 2 hours
work in conjunction with the permits. We're extremely leery about the
aspects of deferral of 50 parking spaces for new businesses. We have to
recognize the fact that parking space is a scarce commodity each one of
those stalls has a value from S 10-512,000 if they could be replaced, and
they can't be. � �
Chairman Yarger - If the Assistance League were to received contribution
dedicated for the purchase of parking permits only, would there be space
within the permit parking area of the municipal parking lot for them to
utilize?
Commissioner Leming - We all know there is a problem with parking in the
Old Towne area and somewhere along the line the Planning Commission and
the City Council is going to have to address that issue. I don't think S 1,200
a year for 10 parking permits is unreasonable, even for a non-profit
organization. When I shop or visit an area in another community that is
impacted by parking i have to pay to park, the merchants no longer provide
"free" parking for their customers, but that is my choice.
I think that when you allow businesses to come in to an area and you don't
, provide enough parking you're affecting all the other businesses because
people aren't going to come back and shop at your store if they can't find a
parking spot.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - Citv Traffic Commission - Anril 12, 1995
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iil. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR tCont'd.}
RECOMMENDATION: That the request for '3 Hour' parking restriction
in the S. Orange Street Municipal Parking Lot be denied.
MOTION - D. Yarger
SECOND - J. Gibson
AYES - Unanimous
Chairman Yarger - Also, I will make a $100 contribution to the Assistance
League to be utilized for the purchase of a parking permit for the municipal
parking lot. And I will also be more than willing to see if there are more
business people that are willing to contribute funds toward the purchase of
parking permits for the Assistance League.
Commissioner Leming - I would like to make a Minute Order in the form of a
letter to the Planning Commission, that the CTC has a concern that the
Planning Commission has approved or is about to approve a number of
projects without requiring the applicant to provide the minimum number of
parking spaces for their operation. Also, that the City should consider some
type of parking structure in the Old Towne area even though they have to
find some alternate ways to finance its construction.
MOTION - B. Lemming
SECOND - D. Yarger .
� AYES - Unanimous
B. Request for the installation of a traffic signal at the intersection of Heim Ave.
and Orange-Olive Rd.
Vern Rasmussen
1631 1 Fellows Dr.
Orange, CA 92665
O�al presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your
copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the fol%wing
discussion of this request.
There was one speaker in favor of the request, his concerns are as follows:
Yern Rasmussen - 16311 Fellows Dr., Orange
Once a week I help kids crossing the street, the last time I counted cars
going westbound making a left turn onto Heim there were 27 cars in line and
there is by far more cars there today. Because of the ditches on Heim it
isn't possible to have a right-turn only lane. St. Paul's Lutheran School
presently has 375 students and the enrollment is to increase by 65 students
this Fall and most of them get to school by car.
Bernie Dennis - What do you think the attitude is of the residents along the
south side of Heim relative to annexing to the City?
Vern Rasmussen - I've never really asked them. I don't see where it makes
any difference.
Bernie Dennis - Jere Murphy, Advanced Planner for the city is now in charge
of annexation activity. Mr. Rasmussen and I tried to make contact with Mr.
Murphy earlier taday, however, he wasn't in, but we will try to put Mr.
Rasmussen in touch with Jere Murphy regarding possible annexation.
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Minutes of a Re�ular Meetina - Ciri Traffic Commission - April 12, 1995
111. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.f
There were two (2) speakers ooaosing the request, their concerns are as
follows:
Caroln Svensson, 2456 Lore Ln. - Because my house backs up to Orange-
Olive Rd. t realiy don't want a signal there. With a 45 MPH speed limit the
prospect of cars hitting their brakes just outside isn't pleasant, even with the
wall because the noise is already intense. If the County were to put in
additional lanes on Heim it would solve the problem: The problem occurs
when people are taking their kids to school or picking them up. I can say
from talking with my neighbors on Fellows Dr. that they wouldn't mind being
annexed into the city.
Sabrina Green, 603 E. Heim Ave. - I'm 2 houses east of the intersection.
From the letter I received in the mail about today's meeting until listening to
, the discussion this afternoon I have completely changed my opinion. I was
in favor of the signal because there was a large back-up ot traffic especially
on weekends with the Mall traffic and with the school traffic; however, we
have noticed an extreme difference in the amount-of traffic since the sports
facility was built on Canal and Meats. We like having no curbs and
sidewalks, we don't want the street widened, we like the street being as
quiet as it can be and adding all those extra things will encourage traffic to
use our street more that it is and we don't want it to become a 4-lane road.
Bernie Dennis - Just as a matter of clarification. When we're talking
improvements from the City of Orange perspective, we're not talking about
widening it any more than what you see on the street now.
Sabrina Green - To get a left-turn lane it would have to be widened.
Bernie Dennis - If you're standing in your front yard and you look to the left
and you see the location where there is curb, gutter and sidewalk now that's
what we're talking about; and with having the County own the street it's
their call.
Chairman Yarger c%sed the public hearing and returned item to the
Commission for fina/comments and/or a motion.
Commissioner Gibson - I don't believe a traffic signal is warranted, I think
you would find heavier traffic accessing that particular intersection being
protected with a signal. I would like to see that intersection improved by
the County, perhaps there might be Measure M funds available the County
could use I think an improvement is warranted but 1 don't think a traffic
signal is at this time.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request.
' MOTION - J. Gibson
SECOND - F. Sciarra
AYES - Unanimous
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Minutes of a Reaular Meetin4 - Ciri Traffic Commission - Aaril 12, 1995
, lII. CONStDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.�
C. Request for intersection evaluation at the intersections of Spring
St./Esplanade St. and Spring St./Seranado St.
Gordon Schott, Principal Nancy Murray, Principal
Esplanade Elementary School EI Modena High School
381 N. Esplanade St. 3920 Spring St.
Orange, CA 92669 Orange, CA 92669
RECOMMENDATION: That this item be continued to the May 10, 1995,
CTC meeting.
MOTION - B. Leming
SECOND - F. Sciarra
AYES - Unanimous
D. Request for westbound 'U' Turns on Chapman Ave. between Tustin St. and
Wayfield St.
Bob Smith
AI Unsers Auto Care
13729 Rosecrans Ave.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
Chuck Glass, Traffic Engineer gave the following oral report on this request.
This is a request from the owner of the property at the northeast corner of
Chapman/Wayfield where there is currently an auto center approved, the
request is for U Turns on Chapman Ave. essentially west of Wayfield. The
� basis for the request is to reduce the amount of left-#urning traffic that
would be utilizing the Mobil Station driveway. I would like to point out that
currently Wayfield is restricted to right-turn only onto Chapman Ave. and
left-turns are prohibited.
At the present time the Mobil station has left-turn ingress or egress. We
. have determined, that the request in essence is already approved, that is to
say that U Turns currently are allowed on Chapman. The proponent is
asking for some additional signing, pavement markings, raised median to
promote U Turns. It is our opinion, in our recommendation, that two things
should be done: . .
1) Since the request itself is already in place that the request be received
and filed; and
2) As far as any request for additional signs, pavement markings it would be
our opinion that none of this should be approved or installed until such
time as the auto center is in place and operational where we could really
evafuate traffic conditions in the area. One of the reasons we are
hesitate to get into the business of installing 'U Turn OK' signs is that it
would set some sort of a precedent where in theory we could be doing
this all up and down Tustin St. or other business corridors. This
segment of Chapman, strictly by definition in the CVC, is not eonsidered
a "business district".
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Minutes of a Reaular Meetinc - Ciri Traffic Commission - A�ril 12, 1995
� fil. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.)
Chairman Ya�ger opened the public hearing for the fol%wing discussion of
this request.
� Joe Foust, Austin-Foust & Associates, Inc. (2020 N. Tustin Ave., Santa
Ana, CA) Traffic Engineers for the applicant. - I am requesting a change in
the on-street markings or putting in signs that 'U Turn OK' or pavement
markings but no other modifications either to medians or lane channelization
lines. Developer will pay for the work.
Extensive discussion of this request ensued, a few of the points made are as
fo/%ws: �
Commissioner Gibson - I'm cautious from a liability standpoint to allow signs
to be instatled. �
Commissioner Leming - What about opposing traffic in the continuous left-
turn lane and potentia! for head-on conflicts.
Mel Berkeley, AI Unsers Auto Center - tt hurts us from a customer service
basis when its hard to exit; it doesn't endear us to our neighbor at the Mobil
station.
Bob Smith, AI Unsers Auto Center - We were aware of the U Turn problem
when we started this project, however, we cannot continue the project
without this U Turn since our financing will be cut off without it. �ur lender
wants positive identification that can't be taken away.
Bernie Dennis - We ca:n never guarantee that. What happens if 5 years
from now the City Council decides they want to install a raised island here?
They will have, in ess�nce, taken it away. That is the purview of any City
Council at any time.
Commissioner Sciarra - This situation is exactly what occurs when you come
out of the Post Office on Tustin St./Quincy Ave. When you leave the Post
Office you have to turn right as (eft turns are prohibited and everybody that
wants to go Ieft when they leave the Post Office turns right and then makes
a U Turn at Adams, and they make this move without signage.
Bernie Dennis - The recommendation is to wait until the center opens and �
then review the traffic conditions before we make a decision.
Joe Foust - That's okay, this project won't open for another 10-11 months
down the road.
RECOMMENDATI�N: - That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request to post
Chapman Ave. with U Turn permissive signs but would APPROVE the
installation of a diagrammatic U Turn permissive sign on Wayfield to serve
the subject development.
MOTION - B. L�ming, But I would like it to go through the City
Attorney's office for review.
SECOND - J. Gibson
Chairman Yarger - Coming out of Wayfield going easterly on Chapman Ave.
we have a left turn pocket for people to turn into Wayfield. What is the
distance from the centerline of Wayfield down to;the double line?
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Minutes of a Recular Meetina - Citv Traffic Commission - Aorit 12, 'I995
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I11. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.)
Bernie Dennis - Roughiy this is about 300 feet.
Chairman Yarger - It bothers me is if people come out snd think they can
make a U Turn immediately without going into the island area.
Commissioner Leming -Then the applicant should re-stripe to make this clear
so it isn't confusing to the motorists.
AYES - Unanimous
E. � Request to establish the speed limit on Loma St. from Serrano Ave. to the
north city boundary.
City of Orange
Traffic Engineering Division
4ral presentation is based on the written staff report, please iefer to your
copy. There was no discussion on this item.
RECOMMENDATION: That the City Council direct the City Attorney to
prepare an amendment to the Ordinance No. 5-94 changing the speed limit
on Loma 5t. north of Serrano Ave. to north city limits from 40 MPH to 45
MPH.
MOTION - D. Yarger
SECOND - f. Sciarra
AYES - Unanimous
F. Req�est to remove the existing painted crosswalk and associated red curb
at 759 N. Eckhoff St.
County of Orange
1055 N. Main St., #700
Santa Ana, CA 92701-3fi16
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your
cop y. There was no discussion on the item.
RECOMMENDATIOM: That the CTC, by motion, APPROVE the request.
MOTION - D. Yarger �
SECOND - J. Gibson
AYES - Unanimous
G. Request to remove the existing m�d-block school crosswalk on Orange-Olive
Rd. located between Fellows Way and Glendora Ave.
City of 4range
Traffic Engineering Division
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to you�
copy. There was no discussion on this item.
RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, APPROVE the request.
MOTION - B. Leming
SECOND - F. Sciarra
AYES - Unanimous
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Minutes of a Re�uiar Meetin� - Citv Traffic Commission - A�ril 12, 1995
. III. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.�
IV. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
No reports were presented.
V. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
No oral presentations.
Vt. ADJQURNMENT
Discussion of today's Agenda items for the City Traffic Commission being
complete, and there being no further requests for action under Oral Presentation, �
the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission to it's next �
regular meeting.
The next regularly scheduled meeting of the City Traffic Commission will be held on
Wednesday - May 10, 1995.
Respectfully submitted, ,
�1�� l
Phy ' Then �
Recording Secretary
City Traffic Commission
TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLlC WORKS
CITY OF ORANGE
300 E. CHAPMAN AVE.
ORANGE, CALIFORNIA 92666-1591
PHONE: (714} 744-5536
FAx: (714)7446961
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