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03-08-1995 - Minutes TC � ' , '_�,,` �� ;�� � CITY OF ORANGE --�`�` ;c��: `rr;�^� CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: March 8, 1995 i. OPENING A. Piedge Of Ailegiance To The Fiag cos c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 c�3 ca3 c�3 c�t c�3 c:�c�s c�3 c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 cas c:6 c�3 c�3 c�c�3 c�3 c�s c�3 c�3 c;�c�s c�s c�s c�3 B. ROLL CALL: Present - Commissioners: D. Yarger, J. Fortier, J. Gibson, B. Leming, F. Sciarra Present - Staff: B. Dennis, Capt. Walsh, C. Glass, D. Allenbach, P. Then c�c�sc�c�sc�c�c�sc�c�c�c�sc�sc�c�sc�sc�sc�c:�c�c�c:sc�c�c�c�c�c�c�c�c�c�c�c�sc�c�sc:�c�c�c�sc�sc�sc�s C. APPROVAL OF MINUTES • Meeting of: October 12, 1994 • Meeting of: November 9, 1994 - Amended • Meeting of: January 18, 1995 - Amended RECOMMENDATION: Approve as published by the Recording Secretary MOTION - F. Sciarra SECOND - J. Gibson AYES - Unanimous D. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN CONSIDERATION CALENDAR A. Evaluation of the intersection of Main St. and Mapte Ave. RECOMMENDATION: Continue until the April 12, 1995, CTC meeting. MOTION - D. Yarger SECOND - J. Gibson AYES - Unanimous -�- • Minutes of � Reauto �Jleetin� - Cifir Traffic Commission - fVoorCh $. 1995 (Cont'd 1 i . tl. CONSENT CALENDAR � There are no Consent Calendar on the March 8, 1995 Agenda. ill. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR A. Evaluation of the intersection of Main St. �nd Maple Ave. Traffic Engineering Division CITY OF ORANGE RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, CQNTINUE this item until the April 12, 1995 CTC meeting. MOTION - D. Yarger SECOND - J. Gibson AYES - Unanimous B. Request #or the instaliation of a '3-Way' ST�P control at the intersection of , Roxbury Ave. and Springfield St. Keystone Pacific Property Management, Inc. 41 QO Newport�Place, Suite #350 i�ewport Beach, CA 92660 Ora! presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. There was no discussian on this item. RECOMMENDATtON: That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request. MOTION - D. Yarger SECOND - J. Fortier � AYES - Unanimous C. Request for the installation of a traffic signal at the intersection of Walnut Ave. �nd Rancho Sa�tiago Blvd. � Mr. Bob TunstaU 101 Civic Center� Plaza Santa Ana, GA 92701 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public fiearing fo� the following discussion of this request. There were two speakers in favor of the request, their concerns are as follows: i -2- ° Minutes of e Re�ular �Jleetin� - Citv Traffic Commission - March 8, 1995 tCont'd.) 111. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.) , � D. J. Ferris, Asst. Principal Santiago Middte School, 515 N. Rancho Santiago Blvd. - I spend part of every day at this intersection, 873 kids with one access in and out. We have approx. 150-204 cars picking up kids on a day- to-day basis plus our staff inembers, there are 3 busses, an ice cream truck, a few EI Modena H.S. students cruising by; it is a mad-house for about half . an hour. If we were to have an emergency our access in and out would be difficult especially between 2:45 - 3:15 p.m. Due to the liability involved I have been instructed n�to go out there and help kids cross the street, but 1 do monitor their crossing �ctivity. Providing the additional lane for right-turn only would be great, marked crosswalks would be great, a 'NO PARKING DURING SCHOOL HOURS' zone would also be great. Commissioner Fortier - It's not a car problem but a �Cid problem, the sporadic way they cross the street. if we put a Crossing Guard there to keep the kids up on the curb, let the cars go through �nd then stop for the kids to � cross. That would stop most of the problem. Terri Sargeant, 137 N. Cobbtestone - Striping is needed on UNalnut since there is none out there right now. Perhaps you could leave the door open for future traffic counts to see what will happen after the opening of Loma St., as the vehicles use that as a by-pass what the vehicle count will continue to be. There are things the School District could do, increased bus fees (S 180 per child/annually) would cut-down on bus passengers, increases pedestrians and drivers, and as Santiago becomes a Charter School in 1995 it also opens the doors to inter-district enrollment, and the traffic counts may get even warse. It might be more feasible i# you put 'NO STOPPING DURING 5CNo0� HouaS' atong Walnut so you do not impact residents of the cul-de- sacs. Chairman Yarger c%sed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commrssion for further discussion and/or a motion. Commissioner Leming - On the issue Of 'NO PARKING DURING SCHOOL HOURS' along Walnut, I would assume that most of the parking that is there during school hours when children are being picked up or dropped off are parents waiting #or kids, and if you remove parking from Walnut where will they wait for their kids? Dave Allenbach,- It appeared to be very short term #he parents pull in there : and wait long enough to pick up their kids and then they leave. During the . course of the school day both side�s of Walnut are virtually un-parked and t believe the only people in the school parking lot are the faculty and administrators. We had noticed that many parents v�rere parking along Rancho Santiago in the bike lane while #hey were waiting for school to end so they could avoid crossing the intersection �es much ras possible. If we extend the �NO PARKING' the amount of on-street parking on Rancho 5antiago may increase. I don't think this problem will go eway, 1 think it will just filter somewhere else and since you have a bike lane there are a number of children riding home in the afternoon and now instead of using the bike lane they're out in the travel lane for quite a distance. •3- ° Minutes of a Reaular nlleetin� - Citv Traffic Commission - March 8, 1995 (Cont'd.) Iii. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.) Commissioner Leming - 1 think it's been policy that we've only assigned Crossing Guards at efementary schools, wouid we have a probiem there? We've had other requests for guards at other middle schools and we've turned them down. Bemie D�nnis - If we have someone out there as a crossing guard, in this particular case, contrary to the normal appiication of guards we're going to use him principally to control the pedestrian crossing activities. You saw the videos we prepared f�r you and I believe what has happened in the area is that the pedestrian sctivity is actually leading to a raumber of vehicle violations. 1A/e think #hat the guard would be used to group the kids and crass them over in a scramble system where a{I directions of traffic stops at one time and everyone moves across, or in #he �onventional manner. This individual is going to be more than the crossing guard you would n�rmally associate with an elementary school. If we're better able to regulate the traffic at Walnut and Rancho Santiago we might find an increase use of parents picking their children up at the school site rather #han the street because I think they will feel that they aren't "t�apped; once they're on the school grounds they can get in and out on Walnut with some degree of safety. it is different because we've never recommended a guard for this particular kind of application, we recognize that there is a problem, we're hard pressed to justify or recommend an �$O,Q00 traffic signal for a two hour a day problerr� �end we aren't for sure with the width of the streets and the number of students th�t a signal really would work. YVe think the right turn conflicts would be significant, we aren't sure that the kids would fiteraliy allow the signal to work correctly, and this seems to be the best solution#or this problem. Commissioner Sciarra - !f 'NO PARKING DURING SCHOOL HOURS' were installed on Walnut would push traffic onto streets in surrounding neighborhoods, how many cars are we talking about and where would they be pushed to? Dave Allenbach - 874 vehocles were counted in the morning and 710 cars were counted in the afternoon. Approximately 300 of those cars in the afternoon were entering the schoot from Walnut and they turned around and came right back out again, 1 would assume those 300 cars would be parking along Walnut. 1f we removed the parking completely through there it would have to go somewhere else. There are two adjoining shart cul-de-sacs but I think for the most pa`rt it would filter out through the neighborhood. Commissioner Sciarra - If we put a right-turn lane in wouldn't that impede the traffic? Dave �Ilenbach - At this time we already have 144 fit. of 'NO PARKING' zone and I think that's long enough given the stacking distances we have there to accommodate the cars that are making the moves to keep the area clear and I think would work through efficiently. We could remove the parking provisionally and if we had a problem later on down the line we could � reinstate it. .¢ ' Minutes of a Reaular ��leetina - Citv Traffir Commission - March 8. 1995 (Cont'd.l tll. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR �Cont'd.) Bernie Dennis - If you remove the parking from the north side of Walnut which is actuafly self serving in the sense that it could provide an additional lane you're going to force the pick-up of kids to occur either on the school site which is the most desirable thing, or they're going to turn off on the side strset and wait for them, which is what we would prefer � to have happen. � Commissioner Leming - I think alot of people don't want to go into the school site because they have to go in, turn around come back and you have 300 cars you have to fight. Most of them are stopping out on Rancho Santiago and they're waiting there and allowing their children to walk out to them. If you remove parking from Walnut you're going to force more of them onto Rancho Santiago. Bernie Dennis - If you wish we coU(d remove sufficient parking along Walnut, maybe back to the first cross•street, to get an adequate right-turn lane and still feave some area at the east end of the street on the north side for the pick-up and drop-off of kids. 250 ft. of right turn lane would be sufficient and again I think that with the control at the intersection it's going to encourage people to pick up their kids on the school site. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, DENY #he request for a traffic signal, but that we APPROVE the instaltation of the extra crosswalks, assign the crossing guard to help expedite traffic and police the students flow across the intersections, and see how that would work, plus install the right turn lane with the removal of 250 ft. of on-street parking from Walnut Ave. MOTION - J. Fortier SECOND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous D. Request for '3-Hour' parking in the S. OranBe St. Municipal Parking Lot. John R. Robertson, Chief of Police CITY OF ORANGE REGOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, CONTINUE the request for discussion of the problems between the Police and the Antique Dealers Association. MOTION - J. Fortier SECOND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous -5- ' Minutes of a Reaular �.�eetina - Citv Traffic Commission - Marvh 8, 1995 ICont'd 1 - til. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.) , E. Request for the instatlation of a '3-Way` STOP at the intersection of Loma St. and Lexington Ave. - Edmond Goodding 5522 E. Lexington Ave. Orange, CA 92667 Ora/report was based on the written staff report, p/ease �efer to your copy. There was no discussion on this item. RECOMMENDATION: That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request. MOTION - D. Yarger SECOND ' - J. Gibson AYES - Unanimous F. Installation of an 'All-Way' STOP control at the intersection of Walnut Ave. and Lincoln St. Beatrice Kight-Herbst 1435 E. Walnut Ave. Orange, CA 92667 Oral presentation is based on written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this request. There was �ne $aeaker i� favor of the 'AI1-Way' STOP control, her concerns are as follows: 8eatrice Kight-Merbst, .7435 E. Walnut Ave. - There have been 10 accidents in the last 7%z years, its because of the speed. The street is posted for 25 MPH but your study indicates the average speed at 28-35 MPH. I'm not pleased with the idea of increased noise and pollution from a STC3R sign at my corner but 1'm more concerned with reducing the accidents as well as the safety of pedestrians that are crossing Walnut Ave. at various times of the day. Chairman Yarger c%sed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further d�scussion and/or a motion. Commissioner Fortier�- 1 recognize the residents concerns however, this is a secondary arterial roadway and one of the problems we have is in expediting traffic through the city, if we put in a STOP sign everywhere we were asked we would never get traffic moving, From what I hear the intersection doesn't meet the minimum warrants; and STOP signs are not designed for reducing speeds. RECOMMENDATI01�: That the CTC, by motion, DENY the request. MOTION - B. Leming SECOND - J. Gibson AYES - Unanimous -s- ' _ Minutes of a Res�ular ��leetina - Citv Traffic Commission - March 8, 1995 tCont'd 1 111. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.) � ' G. Request for 'NO PARKING AT ANY TIME' restrictions on both sides of Taft Ave. between Main St. and 6atavia St. for the installation of marked bike lanes only on Taft Ave. between Main St. and Batavia St.; and on Batavia St. between Taft Ave. and Lincoin Ave. Orange County Flood Control District County of Orange - Environmental Management Agency � P. 0. 8ox 4048 Santa Ana, CA 92702-4048 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your cop y. Chairman Yarger opened the pu6/ic hearing for the follo wing discussion of this item. There was 1 speakers oonosing the request, his concerns are as follows: Todd Deshter, 17 33 1N. T�ft Ave. - 1'm requesting the on-street parking remain on Taft Ave. until such time as heavy vehicle snd bike traffic requires the creation of 'BIKE ONLY' lane. I contacted the County of Orange and I talked to Amid Lomi who submitted the original request to the City for the detouring and he indicated he did not request any parking removal either during the detour or later. In fact he recommended against any parking removal. He said the bike #raffic on the river tr�il during business hours is very light and wouldn't warrant that, �and that heavier bike traffic occurred on weekends where there is littfe or no business parking on the street. He further indicated that the County Traffic Standards allow for a joint use, parking is aUowed with a bike lane where there exists a 12 ft. wide lane along the curb, that is 8 ft. for the parked car, and 4 ft. for the bike lane. On Taft Ave. there is 24 ft. between the curb and the dotted line which leaves 12 ft. for the parking lane and 12 ft. for the #2 travel lane; and he says that is ample width for a joint use and especially if the parking is light. For example Cambridge has a bike lane and allows parking which is a narrower street than Taft Ave. Currently our customers use parking on Taft Ave. for picking up and dropping off cars, for insurance adjusters who seem always to arrive at the same time can easily find parking on the street. We do have a front parking lot yet street parking is very convenient for our customers during certain peak hours. Two of the six businesses affected do not have front parking lats and this might result in their customers coming over to park in our lot. There were 2 speake`rs in favor of the request, their concerns are as follows: Ignacio Ochoa, Traffic Engineer for County of Orange, 300 N. Flower St., S.A. - i'm here to answer any questions you may have on this item. The County did originally propose the sh�red use parking and bike lane, however, given the bike only lane option, it is aur opinion that 'BIKE ONLY' option is safer and is a better facility #or bicyclist, it gets rid of a lot of potential for liability. •�- � Minutes of a Re�ular ��leetina - Citv Traffic Commission - March 8 1995 lCont'd ) Iil. C�NSIDERATION CALENDAR tCont'd.) � Don Harvey, Exec. Director of O.C. Bicycle Coalition, f 30 S. Glassell St. - The issue of the usage of the bike trail on Taft Ave. is not well measured during business hours. The usage during the summer is very heavy and much of it is children who do not have business hour limitations, we have spent some time observing users of Moon Park in Costa Mesa just south of the 405 Fwy, and we have seen typically fairly large groups of children . taking trips down that way. We feel that having bicyclists next to parked cars is a littte risky, experienced cyclists go wide about 4-5 ft. from the car so not to be hit by doors opening, at times bicyclists are in the travel lanes to maneuver around parked cars. Chairtnan Yarger - Is this bike route proposed as permanent or temporary? If it's permanent why would you want children �exposed to heavily traveled streets once the river trail is finished and is re-opened wouldn't you want to move them back to that safer area? Don Harvey - Bicycling on the city street is safer than on the use of trails. That may not be widely understood but the best reference on this subject is John Forrester's book "Effective Cvclinv_; in which he gives a figure of 2.6 rnore accidents on trails than on roads. The reason is that on trails there is a wide mix of speeds, trails tend to attract people �vho are less capable, and the rules of the road aren't well understood, so if you come down a trail you can't rely on people coming the other way for sure ta stay to your left, people wander eround. Bernie Dennis - When the work in #he Santa Ana River is complete that trail wi(I indeed be re-opened. Under #hat circumstance the city detour trail becomes secondary in nature. -"T'he reason i# is being suggested that it be retained really is two-fold: 1) Because it is a part of the IVlaster Plan of Bicyci� Trails which may or 'may -�t�t be approved. t# it isn't approved in alt likel�hood it will be �emov�ed in total, or in part. 2) Though perhaps not a major consideration we're going to invest several � thousand dollars to make this work. If the trail proves to be effective after the river tr�il is opened then given the expenditure of funds to make it workable we should probably save it. If, on the other hand, it's not effective and it doesn't fit into the ultimate Master Plan and there are other problems, then it should be removed. You could, today, �pprove this for the detour only and when the hearings relative #o #he Master Ptan of Bike Trails cam�s up, and they will come before the Traffic Commission, you certa�nly would have your �nput at that �oint in time whether it be this or the rest of #he system which is quite �xtensive. . Commissioner Sciarra - Isn't there eny way Mr. Deshler can improve his on- site parking facility to accommodate the loss of on-street parking he might experience? Todd Deshter - The building� was built in 1976, and it's not that close to the street. It is quite adequate and convenient most flf the time it's during the peak hours when it's just very nice to have the on-street parking available. The lot accommodates between 30-35 vehicles. i -S- ` Minutes of a Recula� ��eetin� - Citv Traffic Commission - March 8, 1995 tCont'd 1 Iti. CONSIDERATION CALENDAR (Cont'd.) ' Commissioner Sciarra - The problem we have is the e�reme liability involved with cars parked on the street and with children going around the cars getting hit by doors opening, etc. Todd Deshler - If I may suggest that you remove the parking �nly after a bic�rcle count has been done on Taft and at the time that the bikeway is approved and later on down the road, it seems premature at this time to permanently close off the parking on Taft based on the extreme light usage. Commissioner Gibson - I appreciate Mr. Deshler's concerns, however, being well acquainted with hazards of the river bike trail once bicyclists are off the , trail #or the summer they might possibly find Taft Ave. much more to their satisfaction as a safer route between Taft and Lincoln, and I think it would be a service to bicyclists and commuters who want to use that trail to create this alternate route as a permanent feature. Commissioner Leming - Could staff refresh +�ur memory as to how many � vehicles were found to be parked on this segment of Taft Ave.? Doug Keys - There are 3 vehicles that are continually parked on the west side of Mr. Desh{er's western driveway, a van and two other vehicles. My guess is that given our repeated trips out there and seeing the exact same cars I would guess that its employees parking out #here. Relative to the other uses in the area we did not observe, at any flther time, any other vehicles parked along Taft. We went o�t in the morning at 9:00 a.m., at 11:00 a.m. and also at 2:00 p.m. to get a variety of times to see if there v�ras a di#ference in parking usage. RECOMME�tDAT10N: That the CTC, by motion, APPROVE the request. MOTION - F. Sciar.ra SECOND - J. Gibson AYES - Fortier, Gibson, Leming, Sciarra NOES - D. Yarger 1V. ADMINISTRATiVE REPORTS Nothing to report. V. ORAL PRESENTATIONS Richard G. ,�impson - 2448 Love Ln., Orange, CA 92665 1 came down to spe�k to what i #hought was going to be on the agenda which was the consideration of installing a traffic signa! at Orange-Olive Rd. and Heim Ave., and evidently that will be on next month's �agenda. � My fellow residents of Fellows Dr. �re asking the city to correct the striping on Orange-Olive Rd. so we coutd have turn pocket, or at �east a continuous left turn iane to tum into. At present,or since Orange-0live Rd. was resurfaced and they striped a turn lane for Heim, we have been in the precarious position of sitting in a fast lane of traffic waiting to turn into a private street; and 2 weeks ago I was hit while waiting to turn into that street. -s- ` _ Minutes of a Reaular ..�eetina - Citv Traffic Commission - Ma��n 8 1995 (Cont'd 1 � For many years we've had a severe probfem making left turns out of Heim Ave. " onto Orange-0live Rd. due to the fact that the County island to the south of Heim and we have very poor visibility. To make a left turn you have to go past a crosswalk and many times I have to pull out, back up and make a few gyrations in order to turn left. Bernie Dennis - Do we have any trouble takin8 the parking off the east side of that street if we needed it in order to stripe that in7 Unless we have to get involved � with some kind of parking removal there really is no need for Mr. Simpson to come back as we handle this type of stuff in-house. We can let you know probably the first of next week. 2. Vem Rasmussen - 16311 Fellows Dr., Orange 92665 Back on 11-30-94, ! sent a letter to the County regarding the need for a traffic signal ant the intersection Orange-Olive Rd. snd Heim Ave. From east to Lincoln only Heim goes through to Tustin St. There is dire need for a traffic signal to be installed at this location. Bernie Dennis - This request is on the Agenda #or #he �►pril 12, a 995 City -- Traffic Commission meeting and you will receive a notice in the mail. Vt. ADJOURNMENT Discussion of today's Agenda items for the City Traffic Gommission being complete, and there being no further requests for action under Oral Presentation, at 5:15 p.m. the Chairman adjourned this session of the CTC to it's next regular meeting. � The nsxt regularly scheduled meeting of the City Traffic Commission will be held on � 1Nednesday -Apri1 12, '1995. _ Respectfulfy submitted, _ � �� Phy ' Then Recording Secretary : City Traffic Commission TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION DEPARTMENT OF PUBUC WORiCS CITY DF ORANGE 300 E. CHAPMAN AVE. o�,NGE, c,4UFORt�w 92666-1591 PHONE: (714)7445636 FAX: (714)7446961 � TAPE #�CTC-95.03 OF THIS CITY TRAFFIC CbMMISSION MEETING iS AVAILABLE FOR YOUR REVIEW. PLEASE Ct�NTACT THE RECORDING SECRETARY 1N TNIS REGARD. IF YOU WlSH TO USTEN TO THE TAPE SOME ADVANCE NOTICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED. File Name: Mar-Min (Disk�`8/6-Then) -10-