10-14-1998 - Minutes TC ��� �5�..�:r�'
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CITY TRAFFIC COMM15514N ;-,,������:�����
M i n utes of a Regu(ar Meeti ng: October 14, 1998
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I. OPENING
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A. Flag Pledge �. _
B. Rol1 Cali:
Present-Commissioners: D. Yarger,). Fortier, W. Poutsma
Absent: F. Sciarra, W. Winthers
Present-Staff: H. Bahadori, D. AIlenbach, C. Glass, M. Binning
Sgt. B. G reen, P. Then
C. Approval Of Minutes: ,
RECOMMENDATION: APPROVE the CTC Minutes of August 12, 1998 and
September 9, 1998, as published by the Re�ording
Secretary.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: . ). Fortier �
AYES; Unanimous �
D. Items To Be Continued or Withdrawn
None this meeting.
Ii. CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Request for the insta�latian of red curb rnarkings on both sides af th� driveway that
services the McPherson�Magnet 5chool parking tat at 300 S. Prospect St.
Rod H ust, Pri nci�al
McPherson Magnet School
333 S. Prospect St.
Orange, CA 92869
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
There was no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Approve the installation of 20 ft. of red curb markings on both sides
of the exit driveway located on the Palmyra Ave. frontage.
MOTION: D. Yarger " ..
SECOND: �. Fortier
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
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Minutes of a Re�ular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 Page 2
AYES: Unanimous
II. CONSENT CALENDAR (Continued)
2. Request to remove the southerly 20 feet of red curb from the south side of the entry
driveway on Nohl Canyon Rd. that services Nohl Canyon Elementary School.
' Valerie C. Via, Program Directar
Released Time Christian Education of Orange
P.O. Box 2935
Qrange, CA 92859-0935
Oral presentation is based on rhe written staff report, please refer to your copy.
There was no discussion of this request:
ACTION: Approve the removal of the southerly 2� ft. of red curb from the
south side of the entry dr�veway on Nohl Canyon Rd. that services Nohl Canyon �
Elementary School.
MC4T�ON: D. Yarger
SECC�ND: ). Fortier
AYES: Unanimous
111. CONSI DERATION ITEMS
1. �Request for the installation of speed humps on Shaffer �t. befinreen Taft Ave. and �
- Meats Ave.
Anthony Dunn
1733 �f. Shaffer St.
Orange, CA 92865
Oral presentation is based on the written �taff report, please refer ta your copy.
Chairrnan Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this
request:
Barbara DeNiro, 1118 E. Adams Ave. - 1 live on the by-pass street to the
Tustin/Katella intersection. My concerns are just questions and information. Type
of hump to be used, safe MPH for travelling over the hump, Fire Dept. concerns
about speed humps, who pays for removal if the residents decide they don't want
the humps after all, does this tend to devalue property, w��l it create pooling of
water, concern for bicycle safety. �
Chairman Yarger-The Fire Dept. did take this issue into consideration and have no
objection to the installation of speed humps at this location. Perhaps staff can
answer some of your other questions.
� Tape #C�fG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
� Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 Page 3
Dave Allenbach, Asst. Engineer-Speed humps taper and become pavement level at
the edge of the gutter so water is allowed to flow freely. Bicyclists and
motorcyclists do not have any difficulty negotiating these humps.
Shawn Robertson, 1818 N. Shaffer St. - In favor of the installation of these humps.
— N�othrng so far seems to have helped this situatian. I don't believe this will
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devatue our property values, if anything I think it will increase our property vatues.
Mike Hennessy, 1802 N. Shaffer St. - In favor of the installation of these humps.
We`ve done everything you've asked of us, this problem doesn't go away, and we
need some help.
Tony Dunn, 1733 N. Shaffer St. - In favor of the instalfation of these humps. We
can't have a Police officer every day to monitor the street, the nice thing abaut the
humps is thafi they are there 24-hours a day, 7 days a week.
Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussian andfor a mation.
Comr�nis5ioner Fortier-We've been working on this issue for a long: time and these
res�dents have b�en very pati�nt while we`ve been gaing �hraugh this process.
4n� thing f vuoufd like to say is that these speed humps cost $15,000 and ance
t�ey are installed' they're there. If you come back in 6 months and say the humps ,
are ug(y and we'd Iike them removed,
� Commissianer PQutsma - l have a question for staff. Mr. Dunn indicates he has
observed traffFc going down th� street at 70 MPH in the evening. For people
travelling through the area and don't know there are speed humps on the street and
they're going at 70 MPH, I�ow illuminated are these humps at night so they don't
cause an accident?
Dav� A[�enbach, asst. Engineer �- At each hump location there will be a warning
sign with an aduisary spe�d posted below 'rt, on eaeh hump there will be reflectiwe
striping simi�ar to what you see on the street. This striping will be in the form of a
"chevron" or "arrow head" that gives a direction of flow far traffic. At night, with
the headlights on you wiI( be able to see both the signs and speed humps in plenty
of time to drive accordingly.
Chairrnan Yarger - I have a quesfiion for legal counsel. If someone does speed
� � do�vn this street and night not realizing there are speed humps and their car goes
out of control and does damage either to a structure or vehicle, what is the city's
obligation?
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your.review. Pfease contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
� Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Re�ular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 Pa�e 4
Mary Binning, Asst. City Attorney - The speed hump would simply become the
traffic 1aw and driving in an unsafe manner for the conditions is certainly not any
liability on the City. These have been planned and will be installed appropriately,
but as far as an individual matorists inattention and subsequent damage, that would
y b€ Iike any other speeding or unsafe driving accident. �
Hamid Bahadori, City Traffic Engineer � If speed humps were traffic control devices
their regulations would fall under the purview of Caltrans through the California
Traffic Control Devices Committee, but they decided these are not traffic contro(
devices and they can be regulated at the local fevel. If we install speed humps
without any discretionary review by the publicly efected officiafs such as the City
Council then your point is valid and we have reason for concern, but these devices
are installed in accordance with the guidelines and standards that have been
reviewed and approved by the City Council so we will have design immunity like .
any other street design.
ACTIQN:
1. Approve the installation af speed humps an Shaffer St. betwee� Taft ave. and
Meats Ave. and recommend that the City Council approve the same.
MOTION: D. Yarger ,
SECOND: W. Poutsma
AYES: Unanimous �
2. Recommend that the City Councif approve an appropriation of approximately
$15,000 for the instaflation of the speed humps from Generaf Fund
Unappropriated Reserves into the department's Contracfivaf Services Account
No. 273-5032-447100. ,
MOTfON: D. Yarger
SECOND: J. Farti�r
AYES: U nan i mous
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. P{ease contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
'� Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 Page 5
IIl. CONSIDERATION ITEMS (Continued)
2. Request that a school crossing guard be assigned to the intersection of Taft Ave. and
_ Fern St.
>
Karen Carr '.
2342 E. Parkside Ave.
Orange, CA 92867
Oral presentation is based on the written staff repor�, please refer to your copy.
The following discussion of this item occurred:
Commissioner Fortier: Having been the principal of that school for years and the
current principal sitting next to me now, � agree with �our analysis and ! have no
objection to denying the request. The alternative of crossing at Taft is a good one
and the crossings should occur at that location.
ACTIO►N: Deny the request.
MOTfON: ). Fortier
SECOND: D. Yarger
AYES: Unanimous �
3. Request that a school crossing be assigned to the intersection of Carnbridge St. and �
Sycamore Ave.
Julie Burns, Asst. Principal
Cambridge Elementary School �
425 N. Cambridge St.
�range, CA 98266 .
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
)ulie Burns, Asst. Principal of Cambridge Elementary School - We have had a real
concern about this particular intersection for some time. We have had teachers
going out to assist with some kind of crossing control we feel it's very unsafe at that
intersection. During the study the Police Dept. was at the intersection and in one
day they issued 5 citations for a variety of violations including speeding, ignoring
flashing lights on the school busses and for running the STOP sign.
Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion andlor a motion:
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated,
� Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Regular Meetin�-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 Page 6
ACTION:
— 1.- Approve the request for the placement of a schooi crossing guard at the
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intersection of Cambridge St. and Sycamore Ave. and recommend that the City
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Counci I approve the same. �
2. Recommend that the City Council approve an appropriation of approximately
$6,000 annual salary from the General Fund Unappropriated Reserves into the
Police Department Crossing Guard Salary Account No. 1 00-4041-41 3 1 02.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: J. Fortier
AYES: Unanimous �
4. Request for the implementation of "NO PARKING 3-6 A.M." restrictions on both sides
of the 1200 blocfc of N. Parker St.
Traffic Engineering Division
CITY OF QRAI�lGE �
Oral presentatron is based on tf�e written staff report, please refer to your copy.
� Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following diseussion of this .
item.
Mike Nyulassie, 1250 N. Parker St. #A - I was here at your previous meeting of
)une and )u!y and i submitted a petition of 8 businessmen o�posed to this parking
restriction. I'm here again to say that the real problem here was one of the tenants
acrass the street from me has too much husiness for his faci(ity, he is now in the
process of rrroving. Tt�e street loaks very nice right now. � fot of my custorners
drop off their �ars at night and f move them �nto my Iot in the morning when I
arrive, I make the repairs and fihen put them back. It hasn't been bad the last
couple of months so again I want to oppose this request.
Chairman Yarger - Sgt. Green, sinee the Police Dept. is right within that area and !
suspect some of your motors go through there, have you seen much change here in
the last couple of months?
Sgt. Bob Green, OPD Traffic Bureau - I haven't personally been down the street
within the �ast 2 months, I haven't spoken with the Bicycle Team who are actually
making a project out of the area, making sure there was code enforcement
compl iance, etc. and I haven`t received a report from them. I would have to check
into that and get back to the Commission and give you a report on that, I'm not
aware of any progress or lack of progress at this time.
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at p14) 744-5536 in this r�gard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
'� Printed on Recycled Faper
Minutes of a Re�ular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - Octoher 14, 1998 Page 7
Hamid Bahadori, City Traffic Engineer-We invited all the businesses in the area to
a meeting on 7-30-98 at 2 p.m. and only three people attended, and those 3 people
— vuere rn favor of the propased parking restriction. There are very few businesses
�
that are opposing the restriction, Mr. Nyulassie indicates there are 8 people
opposed, the majority of��the businesses in the area are in favor of the parking
restriction, at least that's what we have been hearing and that is the opinion that
has been relayed to the City. The overwhelming issue is still there, a lot of these
businesses are using the parking spaces available to them an-site, illegafly for
storage purposes. If the parking problem persists and we do not restrict parking
the City will have no choice but to start enforcing our Zoning and Parking Codes
and I'm not sure if that's in the best interest of the businesses of the area.
Mike Nyulassie -Again, you said the majority. Only 3 peaple showed up that want
it done. I submitted a petition of 8 businessmen; 8 opposed to 3 in favor, the
majarity rules.
Commissioner Fortier -M�ke, do yau haue a place where your cus�omers can drop
off their car at night that's not on the street?
Mike NyutassEe- t do, but somefiimes it fufl and they need to park on the street. �
Commissioner Fortier-How many peopte drop off their cars at night?
Mike Nyuiassie - My hours are 14 a.m. to 7 p.m., t Iive in Riverside and to avoid � �
� the traffic problems t come in tater in the morning, so a lot of people will drop off
their cars at night.
Commissioner Fortier - I understand that, but you have a parking lot in the back I
presume?
Mike Nyulassie - It's Iocked u� with a gate, those are vehicles that I`m warking an.
I share a building with three other tenants. The people who ar� complaining `
aren't even here today.
Hamid Bahadori, City Traffic Engineer - If I may suggest, the CTC may wish to
direct us to work with fihe Police Dept. and take another look at this area and return.
this item next month.
Commissioner Poutsma-Mike, about the businessman across the street, when is he
moving?
Mike Nyulassie - He was supposed to move at the end of the month, he's trying to
find a place to move into. His business has escalated so much he's outgrown this
faci I ity.
, � Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
� Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Re�ular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 Page 8
Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion andlor a motion.
ACTION: Let's look into this a little more and review it again� at our next
_ meeting on November 18, 1998.
J
MOTION: D. Yarger .
SECOND: J. Fortier �
AYES: Unanimous
5. Request for the installation af an NAII-Way" STOP control on Virage at the main
entrance to the Beazer development.
Robert L. French, Ed.D., Superintendent
Orange Unified School District �
1401 N. Handy St.
Orange, CA 92867
Ora! presenta�ion is based on the wri�ten staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Yarger opened tl�e pu�li�hearing for the fotlov�ing discussion:
Chris Poysa, 226 S. Rosalind St. - ! attend�d the Waln�rt cul-de-sac meeting and part '
of the problem we hav� at Prospect Elementary School is that the entry of the
� Beazer track is drrectly across from the kindergarten area. One of t�e a�t�rnatives
discussed was having the deve(apment exit go northbound only and st�lt allow the �
parents who are coming in to drop off their students at the school so they will be
on tl�e east side of Virage and eliminate the cross-f(ow because there is a crossing
guard at SpringNirage.
Hamid Bahadori, City Tra�fic Er�gineer-The issue was discussed at that meeting and
some alternatives were�proposed and subsequent to that meeting we had add�tional
meetings wrth Ms. Ward and other members of the Schoof Board and Dr. French,
and at our last meeting they felt;it best �erved the school's purposes and the Beazer
tract to put in a 3-Way STOP rather than any directional restrictions for the
residents coming out of the tract. They were sensitive to the inconvenience this
would create for these new residents and they also recognized the enforeement that
, directional restrictions are not very effective in the absence of a lot of physical
construction and improvements and at this time the request from the School District
is to go with a 3-Way STOP and we will see how it yvorks. If the problem is not
mitigated then we can look at additional alternatives such as directional restrictions.
- Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
CommissiQn for further discussion and/or a motion:
� Tape #CT'G98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review, Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
L� Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - �ctober 14, 1998 Page 9
Commissioner Fortier- i'm familiar with that area and even through it doesn't meet
warrants I agree that for the safety of the kids it's a good idea. There will be
crosswal ks there. If it gets to a poi nt where it's not safe we're wi I f i ng to look at it
agai n.
.— �TION: Approve the insta�lation of an "All-Way" STOP control on Virage at
�
the main entrance to the Beazer devetopment. .
MOTION: �. Fortier
SECON D: W. Poutsma
AYES: Unanimous
6. Request for street name ehange at variaus locations around uThe Block At Orange",
Shopping/Entertarnment Center. .
�erry Engen
Mills Corporation
1 City Blud. Wesf,#1700
Orange, CA 92868
Mary Binning, Asst. City Attorney - Request to add urgency item to the Agenda.
Government Cod� Section 54954.2 which alfows items to be added to the Traffic �
Comm'rssion Agenda after the Agenda has been posted if the Traffic Commission
. determines by 2/3 vote first that there is a need to take immediate action and
second(y that this need arrose after the Agenda was pubEished. Whafi we have
before us today is a additional request by the Mil(s Corporation to change another
street name. This request was made known to the City after last Thursday when
was when these Agendas wer�t out and the stated need is the fact that with the time
�rame of the ope�ing of The Block if this item is not on today's� Agenda then it
would not be fulfilled before the Grand Opening. In order to �onsider this
additional name ehang� which would be changing "�ustEce V1�a�" west af The City
Driv� to "Shoppertainmer�t Way". If you wish to add tl�is item to the Agenda then
I would ask that you make a motion and vote and in this case it would need your
unanimous vote to add this item to the Agenda because there is a need and the
need for action came to the Commission's attention subsequer�t to the agenda being
posted on 10/9/98.
ACTION: Approve addition of urgency item to agenda.
M�OTION: D. Yarger �
SECOND: J. Fortier
AYES: Unanimous
a) Current Street Name & Location Proposed Street Name
"Justice Way" west of "Shoppertainment Way"
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meetin�-City Traffic Commission - Octo6er 14, 1998 Page 10
The City Drive
Oral presentation is based an the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this
request: �
')erry Engen, Mills Corp. - The idea of the names is to tie the entrance magazines,
and again these are not changing�ustice Way east of The City Drive, this is a means
for people to identify the entrance into our Mall, and that is a name that we have
actually trademarked as combining shopping and entertair�ment and it ties it to our
whole concept and part of the center.
Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussian andlor a motion:
ACTION: Approve the requested street name change to "Shoppertainment Way".
MOTION: D. Yarger �
SECOND: J. Fortier
AYES: Unanimous
b) Current Street N�me & Location Proposed Street Name
NCity Parkway East"west of "Entertainment Avenue" .
The City Drive
� Ora! presentatian is based on the writ�en staff reporr, please refer to y�our copy.
Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for t�e following drscussion of this
request: .
)erry Engen, Mills Corp. - This is another tie to the complex emphasizing the
entertainment component of the project.
Chairman Yarger clased the public hearing and returned the item �o the
Commission for further�diseussran �ndfor a motion:
ACTION: Approve the requested street name change to uEntertainment Avenue".
MOTION: J. Fortier .
� SECOND: W. Poutsma
AYES: Unanimous '
c) Current Street Name & Location Proposed Street Name
"Metropolitan Drive" between "The Block Drive"
The City Drive & Lewis St.
Ora! presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this
request:
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
� Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Regutar Meeting-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 Page 11
�erry Engen, Mills Corp. - To give you a little history, most of you may know.
When this project was developed many years ago it was developed by
Metropolitan Life Insurance which owned the majority of the property around that
whole area and therefore the street name they chose was Metropol itari Way. They
_ no longer own any of the property surrounding that area, the majority is now
� owned by the Mills Corp, and Spieker also owns some of the property. So the
name Metropolitan no longer has any relevance for what is there. It's a very short
street running from The City Dr. to Lewis St. Being that we are the majority
property owner and when the project opens that who(e area is going to be
synonymous with The Block, and it really makes sense, in our minds, to tie it to the
� center and the area. On top of that there are some traffic concerns that we deal
with. We will be activefy marketing this center not anly to local residents, but to
people outside the area, and we a(so have a division that will be marketing the
center to tourists. As you know last year Orange County had over 38 million
tourists and we pfan to capture those tourists dollars back into the city, which really
doesn't offer anything to tourists on a significant scafe. What that means� is that
you are going to have �eople come into the area outs'rde of Qrange who are
unfamiliar and it provides them with immediate recagnifiion. We are working
closely with staff and Caftrans on re-configuring the interchange at City Dr. and
SR-22 Fwy. and if many of you have trave[ed it and tried to make the weave from
the SR 22 heading west to exit at The C'rty Dr. reafize it is a very .dangerous �
situatian. We are looking to ameliorate that and improve that situation with the
. Ci#y and Caltrans over �he next coupte af years. By renaming the street it does
another thing in that it actuafly puts the name of the street on the freeway. What's
important about that is when you're bringing people into th� area that have not
been there before they're driving and all of a sudden they see something they
recognize, that's it. They could be in the fast lane or the middfe fane, and they
need to dart across traffic because they don't want ta miss the exit and it's
dangerous enough as it is. Recornmendations from our traffic engineers and
Caitrans, by changing.that name and getting an�off-rarr�p fihere it �Ilows peopie
enaugh notice to get over to the right lane so they're not trying to dart across traffic
and potentiatly get into an accident. Those ar� the main reasons why we believe
it's an important thing to change the name. Additionally, as you may or may not
know, we'tl be generating a little over 3,000 jobs and peop(e wifl not be just from
local areas.
Larry Summers, Director of Real Estate for Bergen-Brunswig -4000 Metropolitan -
The facility we are talking about was built for Bergen-Brunswig, it's our national
headquarters and was built in 1984 we've been there since 1985. We wish to
express strong opposition to this for the following reasons:
1. {t would require us to notify over 30,000 customers nation-wide.
2. We would have to change State and Federal pharmaceutical licenses involving
both the DEA as well as State agencies.
� Tape #CTC 98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice.would be appreciated.
� Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 Pa�e 12
3. Notificatian of thousands of our suppl iers. �
The cost to da this would be in excess of $1 Million dol{ars. I understand what the
Milis Corp. is trying to do. I wouid request that they think of some other
alternative.
� Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion andlor a motion:
Chairman Yarger - ! think this new center is fantastic but I also fe�l that who's on
the block first should be heard very strongly. I would hate to think that if I started
a business in 1985 and somebody comes in 13 years Iater and wants to change the
name of the street, and it's going to cost me in excess of $1 miltion to change my
business as far as contact'rng peopfe, State and Federal regulations. I have a
problem with changing the name of Metropolitan Drive.
Commissioner Fortier - One of the things that ( would like to cafl ta your attention
is that changing street names is a serious consideration and it's not something we
do in �: caprieious way, and we always look at how it affects the people who are
already there. Normally we change names of streefis vtre're looking at individual
homes and we a(ways fook to see how many homes there ar� wha wi I I al I f�ave to
change their checking accaunts and other personal documents, that is a big
consideration. I also have a problem changing this st�-eet name, I see one reason
why, but we do have to Iook at the people who are already there and the costs they
� will incur with such a name change. Another thing the street has been there,
when I think of I�etropolitan Dr. ! don't think of Metropolitan Life, � kn:ow where it
is and I don't even live in that area.
Commissioner Poutsma - I would like to know what the rules are considering some
alternative posting of such a great big facility other than legal off-ramp names. If
you driving down the freeway once in a while you'!t see signs that say NVIOLA
COLLEGEn or whatever, rs this a possibility other th�n an official name change?
Hamid Bahadori, City Traffic Engineer - Caltrans has very strict guideEines about the
signs they alfow on their property especially on the freeway. Certain institutions
such as colfeges, for example, if they are within 3 mifes from the freeway get signs
instalfed. There is another way Caltrans allows for signs to be posted and that is
purely a pofitical process. You may have noticed, for example, a sign called
uLITTLE SAtGON" on the SR-22 Fwy. There is nothing in the State manuals that
allows for something like that, that is done through appeal mostly to Sacr�mento
and then at either the Caltrans headquarters level or at a District Director level,
they make those decisions; those are purely discretionary. Mills will not qualify
under standard guidelines for any permanent name signs on the freeway. We are
working with Mills and Caltrans on some temporary identification signs during the
construction of the I-5 Fwy. improvements, but those are temporary signs. Their
standards do not allow any permanent sign except, if as I said, it can be done
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 . Page 13
politically Caltrans can make an exemption then they can install whatever they
want.
s
ACTION: Deny the request to change Metropolitan Drive between The City
Drive and Lewis St. to "The Block Drive".
MOTfON: D. Yarger
SECOND: ). Fortier
AYES: D. Yarger,�. Fortier
ABSTAIN: W. Poutsma; changed his vote to Aye.
Mary Binning, Asst. City Attorney �- I believe that unless you are abstaining for a
particular reason you are basically remaining silent on this vote and that may be
counted as an affirmative vote.
Commissioner Poutsma- 1 fihink 1 would c[assif�r my abstenti4n that I would like ta
see the process that the City Traffic Engin�er was tafking about investigated to see if
that could be achieved. I can see everybady's �oint of uiew and they are valid,
but t don't want to mal�e a vote that could cost somebady $1.5 m�llion to change
their address, but on the other hand l can see the safety issue where people are �
trying to dart acrass 3 lanes of traffic beca�se, �oh that's the place". That is my
� re�son for abstaining and 1 don't know if that qualifies or nat.
Mary Binning, Asst. City Attorney -That is not a valid abstention. You are entitled
to remain silent.
Comrnissioner Poutsma = Then ! think what I'll da is Ieave it to the Mills Corp. to
follow that route then to see what they can do, and I wifl change my vote to an
Aye.
IV. ADMINISTRATIVE I�EPORTS
There were no administrative reports at this meeting.
V. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
Chris Poysa, 226 S. Rosalind - I want clarification on the first Consent Calendar
item regarding McPherson Magnet School. I just want ta clarify that you're
planning to install the red curb at the "exit" driveway which is on the Palmyra side
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
T-«� Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission - October 14, 1998 Page 14
of the property and it exits out into a 2-lane street. How fast can we get it painted?
I wish we could use the "emergency" rule.
Dave Allenbach, Asst. Engineer - The school address is an Prospect St., however,
we were planning on the red curb being installed at the P'atmyra parking lot
J d�iveway. We have a 15 day wait in case an appea! is filed, after that it will
probably take about a week for it to be installed.
There were no other presentations either from the public or Commission.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda items of the City Traf�ic Commission was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission.
The next reg,ularty scheduled meeting of the City T�affic �ommission will be
Wednesday- NoWember 18, 1998.
Respectful(y submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then
Recording Secretary .
Traffic Engineering Division
CITY OF�RANGE
DEPARTMENT OF FUBLIC WORKS �
TRAFFIC ENGINEERING L�IVfSION
300 E.CHAPMAN AVE.
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744-5536
FAX: (714) 74469b1
� MINUTES [DISK#20/THENP]
� Tape #CTG98.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the
Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,some advance notice would be appreciated.
'� Printed on Recycled Paper