02-11-1998 - Minutes TC � .r
CITY �F 4RANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: February ii, 1998
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I. OPENING
A. Pledge of Ailegiance To The Flag
B. Roll Call:
Present- Commissioners: D. Yarger, W. Poutsma, F. Sciarra
Absent - Commissioners: J. Fortier, �. Gibson
Present - Staff: H. Bahadori, D. Allenbach, W. Winthers, C. Glass, P, Then,
Sgt. Bob Green
C. Approval Of Minutes
RECOMMENDATION: APPROVE the CTC Minutes of 12-10-97, as published by
the Recording Secretary.
MOTION: F. 5ciarra
SECOND: W. Poutsma
AYES: Unanimous
D. Items to be Continued or Withdrawn
None this meeting.
II. CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Request for the removal of red curb markings at the intersection of Grand St. and
Walnut Ave.
Behrooz Esfandiari, Associate Planner
Chapman University
330 N. Glassell St.
Orange, CA 92866
Ora/presentation is based on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your copy. There
was no discussion of this item.
ACTION: Approve the removal of 70 feet of red curb markings on the south side of
Walnut Ave. at Grand St., adjacent to Chapman University.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. Sciarra
AYES: Unanimous ,
��� Tape #CTC-98.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please
contact the Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard, some advance notice would be
appreciated.
�
� �
Minutes of a Re�ular Meetii City Traffic Commission Febrvar-�+ 11, 1998- Paoe 2
2. Request for the installation of red curb markings adjacent to the driveway that services
190 N. Cypress St.
Gary Mead
190 N. Cypress St.
Qrange, CA 92866
�ra/pre,sentation is base�d on the w�tten staff rep�ort, please refer to your cvpy. There
was no discussion of this item.
ACTION: Approve the request and install 20 ft. of red curb markings on both sides
of the subject driveway at 190 N. Cypress St.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. S�iarra
AYES: Unanimous
3. Request to remove the red curb markings at the intersection of Grand St. and Mayfair
Av�.
Maria Tasi
303 E. Mayfair Ave.
Qrange, CA 92867
Oral presentation is b�asc�d on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your copy. There
was no discussion of this item.
ACTION: Approve the request and remove the red curb markings on both sides of
Grand St. at Mayfair Ave.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. Sciarra
AYES: Unanimaus
4. Request for the installation of red curb markings in front of the Hinckley & Schmitt
11��t�r Co. ofFce located at 9G4 N, Batavia St,
Gar�r Hymel
Aztec Supply Co.
954 N. Batavia St.
Orange, CA 92867
Ora/presentation rs based on the written staff re�rt, p/ease refer to you�copy. There
v�as r�v discussion of this item.
ACTIQN: Approve the request and install 20 ft. of red curb markings in front of the
ofFice at 964 N. Batavia St.
MOTi�N: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. Sciarra -
AYES: Unanimous
��- Tape #CTC-98.01 of this City Tra�c Commissior� m�ting is availabl� for your review. Please
contact ti�e Recording S�cretary at(71�} 744-5536 in this regard, some advance notice wauld be
app�reciate�. .
, �
Minutes of a Regular Meetir, Cit�Traffic Commission February 11 1998- Paqe 3
5. Request for the installation of red curb markings adjacent to the driveways servicing
701 W. Grove Ave.
Michael Spurbeck
RSA Sutter
701 W. Grove Ave.
Orange, CA 92865 �
Ora/presentation is ba.se�d on the written staff report,please�efer to your copy. There
was no discussion of this item.
ACTION: Approve the request and install red curb markings at the two driveways
serving 701 W. Grove Ave., per the site sketch.
M�TI�N: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. Sciarra
AYES: Unanimous
6. Request for the installation of red curb markings in front of the Casa Orange Retirement
Hame at 142 S. Prospect St.
Diana Roberts
Casa Orange
142 S. Prospect St.
Orange, CA 92869
4ra/presentation is based on the w�itten staff report,please�efer to you�copy,
Dave Allenbach - Asst, TrafFc EnQineer - If you approve the installation of 65 ft. of red
curb markings in front of Casa Orange, there will be approximately 40 f�. of on-street
parking left on Prospect southerly of this location. We did send the resident who lives
at this location (address is on Almond but side fronts onto Prospect) a notification letter
asking them if they needed the on-street parking on Prospect or if they would they be
oppased to us removing the parking from their Prospect frontage. To date we have not
heard from this resident and the way we worded the notification letter was "if we have
not heard from them before CTC on 2-11-98, that we would assume that they do need
that section of on-street parking and we would leave that alone."
ACT`ION: Approve the request and install 65 ft. of red curb markings in front of
Casa Orange Retirement Home at 142 S. Prospect St.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SEC�ND: W. Poutsma
AYES: Unanimous
�� Tape #CTC-9�.01 of th'ss Cifi,� Traffic Commissian meeting is available for your review. Please
contact the Recarding Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard, some advance notice wouid be
appreciated.
Mmutes of a Regular Meetu Gty Traffic Commiss�on February 11, 1998 - Page 4
III. C4NSIDERATION ITEMS
There were no Consideration Items this month.
IV. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
A. Report an the installation of flashing crosswalks.
Information was given to the CTC about a new pedestrian warning device called a
"flashing crosswalk". Staff presented technical information and a brief video that
showed their installation and method of operation. There was some discussion about
possible installation sites. Staff also informed the Commission that approval of these
devices by the State Device Committee is pending and that installation guidelines would
be issued by the State once approved.
Staff will update the Commission in the future as new developments occur regarding
this issue.
B. Discussion on adopting an Ordinance to prohibit vehicular parking within "parkway"
areas.
As we understand it legally you cannot park your vehicle in the front yard, which is
covered through an Planning �rdinance section of the O.M.C. You cannot park a
vehicle on the street during street sweeping hours, where the curb is painted red, and
those type of restrictions. However, as we understand it, there is no restriction to
prevent someone from parking a vehicle in the "parkway", the parkway is actually
public-right-of-way although it is not in the street and it also is not in someone's front
yard. There have been a few complaints within the last few months of vehicles that are
parking in the parkway and just being left there for days on end as though it were a
parking space. I have seen araund the "Old Towne"area during street sweeping days
a few cars in the parkway, however, most of those people are trying to find a space to
parking their vehicle to comply with the street sweeping ordinance. Most of them, once
the street sweeper has gone by have complied with the spirit of the law and move their
vehicles back onto the street and park legally. There are a few people who have lef�
their vehicles in the parkway for days on end so we have been asked to bring this issue
before you for discussion and get some direction on how to proceed with this.
Cammissioner Sciarra - If we restrict cars from parking in the parkway areas that would
include everyone including those people who park here for short periods of time for
street sweeping days.
Chai�man YarQer-These people have no room in their driveway for their vehicles?
Dave Allenbach - My observations have been within the Otd Towne area only and there
are many residences that don't have on-site parking, and in some lacations where there
are multiple dwelling units on the same lot the driveway is for ingress/egress only,
residents are not al(owed to park long-term in these common driveways, even for street
sweeping days. With regard to the street sweeping a number of the streets are posted
�p Tape #CTC-98.01 of this City Traf�ic Commission meeting is available for your reviev��. Please
contact the Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard, some advance notice woufd be
app►reciat�d.
Minutes of a Re�ular Meetin, City Traffic Commission February 11, 1998- Page 5
for alternate sides of the street being swept one week and the other side the following
week so there is a place to store your vehicle and try to comply with the ordinance. I
don't have numbers of people that are using the parkway.
Sqt. Bob Green, OPD Traffic Bureau - The 72 Hr. law is in the O.M.C. I think we will
have to research that in the O.M.C. and the City Attorney`s office and find out just
exactly where the public right-of-way begins and ends. How far in from the curb line
would the public right-of-way extend? One of the rnajor areas of concern we have and
what prompted this request was the area of Walnut/Le�non and Walnut/Cypress where
we have many vehicles being stored on the parkway area by some of the local garages,
towing companies, ambulance repair shops, etc., within the commercially zoned areas.
We've also had some problems in the area of 500 N. Shaffer St. adjacent to Orange
High School.
Hamid Bahadori, City Traffic Enaineer - We have no objection to go back and develop
something in coordination with OPD and the City Attorney's office for an ordinance, but
one thing that will definitely be part of the discussion in your meeting and ultimately the
City Council meeting is the question of the street sweeping and many people are using
the parkway's to park for limited time for street sweeping compliance and I don't know
how you can make exemptions only for that activity.
From my perspective this is not a trafFic safety issue. Parking in the parkway can �reate
problems the sam� way as parking on the street so we handle those on a case-by-case
basis. If we receive complaints about peopte blocking sight distance at a driveway or
an intersection we go out and restrict parking. This is more a quality of life issue. If
these cars loak ugly and are not desirable to see vehicles parked here for a short period
of time if you approach this from that perspective that's going to be the
recommendation from the Commission and if the Counci! decides that this is a matter of
public policy they don't want to see vehicles parked even for 20 minutes on the city
parkway, if they make this finding that parkways are not built for parking vehicles then
th� question of time, area, zones and all of that is a separate issue. They may pass a
alanket ordinance for the whole city. If we go to the City Council we must have some
strong justification why do we want to go with such a restrictive ordinance covering all
the city, what is the justification? Then for traffic safety reasons we have to either
show traffic accidents or complaints coming in or records of phone calls something that
shows what has prompted this action.
ACTI�N: Direct staff to work with the Police Dept. and the City Attorney to develop
the appropriate ordinance and research the O.M.C. and see what needs to be amended
or changed and then we will bring something back for yaur consideration. It may take
some time but we might be ready by our April meeting.
i� Tape #CTC-98.01 of this City Traffic �ommission meeting is available for your review. Please
contact the Recording Secretary at(714} 744-5536 in this regard, some advance notice would be
appreciated.
,
Minutes of a Reqular Meeti►_ -Citv Traffic Commission _ Feb�vary li, 1998- Page 6
3. Discussion on adopting an Ordinance to prohibit parking motor homes on public streets.
Chairman YarQer - Sgt. Green and I have talked about this and we`re finding
motorhomes parked throughout our city where the mofiorhomes is nowhere close to
their residence who own the vehicles. They found areas where they can park the
motorhomes; based on license plate traces some of the motorhomes are registered to
addresses in other cities. Because they are not allowed to park in some of these cities
and Orange doesn't forbid it they are infiltrating our area and parking their vehicles in
our city it's unsightly, they get close ta driveways and you can`t see around them and
it's dangerous, exiting the driveway or even the street. I personally would like to see
staff get some information put together and I know Sgt. Green already has numerous
pieces of dacumentation of these vehicles by license numbers and where they live. I
don't think people should park their motorhomes on the street.
Commissioner Sciarra - I agree with you I think it's an eye sore and a safety problem
because children or people crossing the street between parked vehicles can't be seen by
motorists and it could easily be a dangerous situation.
Hamid Bahadori f City Traffic En ineer - I would like to offer a difFerent perspective. A
few cities that I am familiar with went through this process and very few of them have
been able to pass an ordinance like this, of the ones that have passed such an
ordinance they are newer developed cities mostl�r in the South County area and it took
them a good 2-3 years to overcome the public opposition to this and the thing with this
type of ordinance is that it's pretty much undiscriminating and then if you are living in
the City of�range and you have a motorhome you cannot park it on the street either.
Then the question arises as to the definition of a motorhome comes a challenge you
have to get into very specific sizes as far as dimensions such as height, width, length; if
someone has a camper shell on the back of a pick-up truck do you consider that a
motorhome?
From our standpoint I suggest we approach this cautiously because many cities have
spent a lot of time and resources with no success at the end because this type of issue
brings out quite a lot of opposition from the community because they are very
restrictive. If you pass something like this and you have a motorhome you cannot stop
in front of your residence and leave your motorhome to go and get something from the
home and come back, you can be cited because you're parking on a public street. In
the City of Mission Viejo it took them 2�/2 years to pass this and now that they have this
ordinance on the books you cannon park a motorhome ar R.V. on a city street period
not even in frant of your own home for 5 minutes. I don't know how our City Attorney
feel about this or the Police Dept. but as far as successfully passing this through the City
Council that will be quite an effort requiring a lot of justification and the political and
community support.
Commissioner Poutsma - People who awn $70,000 motorhomes have the fiscal power
to also hire attorney's to fight these measures.
`� Tape #CTC-98.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for aur revi�w. PI
contact the Reccrding Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard, some advance notice wouldabe
apprec�ated.
Minutes of a Reqular Meetir�.. . Cit�Traffic Commission Febn�ary 11, 1998- Paoe 7
Commissioner Sciarra - They also have the resources to put these motorhomes in
storage lots.
Hamid Bahadori - I know a few people in the City staff also think such an ordinance is
illegal,that you cannot pass an ordinance like this.
Wa�ne Winthers, Asst. City Attornev - I think a Iot of the cities who have been
successful in passing these ordinances are cities that do their incorporation rules
differently and have the ability to make certain restrictions that a city such as ours
doesn't. We're a general law city and we have a little more trouble with some of these
things. More of the newer planned communities such as Mission Viejo and Irvine have
rules within their incorporation that allow them to make certain restrictions much more
so than a city such as ours so I think it is difficult. I remember when I first came here
back in 1992-93 there was some investigation into such an ordinance at that time and in
fact I think Stan Soo Hoo may have drafted an Ordinance and maybe stafF can elaborate
as to how that played out at that time.
Hamid Bahadori - If you wish to pursue this further I suggest we do some type of
consultation with the Council either through a briefing memo or as an Administrative
Report on a Council Agenda and get their general feed-back because I don't think you
really want us to spend a lot of time and efFort if you know that the Council does not
want this from the public because then it won't go anywhere and if the oppasition is
there then with all the good intentions that the CTC has and with the best resolution
that the City Attorney is going to draft it's not going to pass.
Commissioner Sciarra - Have we received any complaints from citizens?
Dave Allenbach - In our office no.
Sut. Bob Green - We have many, many, many. They are calls for service, people call in
and they complain about a motorhome at a particular area the major complaints are
coming from the north end of the city around Fletcher and Southerne I have 13 (what
we ca{I 28's which are registration information) on vehicles that the Parking Contral
ofFicers have gone out on, ran the registered owner information and cross-referenced it
to the location out of the 13 only 2-3 were within several blocks of the registered
owners address.
Hamid Bahadori - I think it may be more appropriate if the Police Dept. initiates this
request before the Council, honestly because Traffic Engineering daesn't have the
documentation of complaints to justify initiating such an ordinance. Maybe if the Police
Dept. takes the lead on this and indicate that they have documented calls and for this
reason they would like to see a citywide ban on parking R.V.'s on city streets.
Sat. Bob Green - What I`d like to do is get better and further documentation on the
complaints and track it for several months and see what the magnitude of this problem
is and go from there. I will keep the CTC and Traffic Commission updated and perhaps
we can discuss it again in a future meeting and see what course of action we should
take. I will be happy to take the lead an this issue if that's what called for.
t� Tape #CTC-98.01 of this City TrafFc Cornmission meeting is available for your review. Please
contact the Recording Seeretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard, some advance notice would be
appreciated.
�
Minutes of a Reqular Meetii , City Traffic Commission February 11, 1998-Page 8
4. Status report on major developments throughout the City:
There was no discussion of these projects.
V. ORAL PRESENTATION
1. Chairman Yarqer - Commented on a Caltrans problem it's getting worse when you are
westbound on Chapman Ave. in the morning just as you pass Yorba, we have 3 lanes,
the right lane becomes freeway on-ramp only. Now Chapman drops down to 2 lanes
and the center lane is backed-up with motorists trying to get under the overpass trying
to get on the southbound on-ramp; people are trying to exit the freeway and now the
lef� lane is starting to back-up because commuters are making left turns onto the
freeway from the commuter lane, and the trafFc going eastbound since there is no
traffic signal these people can't make a left turn, and it's a parking lot.
Hamid Bahadori - I have good news and bad news. The good news is that the
Chapman interchange at the SR-55 Fwy. is going to be totally reconstructed. You're
going to get 2 new trafFic signals on either side of the freeway. One between the
Freeway and Tustin St., and one between the freeway and Yorba. It's going to be quite
a challenge to run those four signals but it's going to help alleviate this congestion you
a re referri ng to.
The bad news is that it's goinQ to get a lot worse before it gets better and that will be
probably the end of this year when they will start construction on the SR-55 Fwy. The
long term relief is probably going to come when the Meats Ave. interchange is built.
We've been working with Caltrans for many years on this interchange but that's
probably not going to happen until the year 2000.
2. Commissioner Poutsma - Regarding the new stopping law for school buses displaying
the`stop' sign. What is the Police Dept.'s position, have you started giving citations for
vehicles who don't stop going in the opposite directions. A tot of the principals are
writing these things in their newsletters and we`re getting phone calls all the time.
Sut. Bob Green - We have not received many calls or complaints of people not stopping
for the buses. The law requires a request tha�t the drivers of the buses obtain a license
number, description of the vehicle and time and location where the violation occurs and
that it be reported to the Police Dept. and we're required by the CVC to send out a
warning notice. I have received absolutely no requests for warning notices at this time.
I have a form filled out it's in guidelines with the CHP form we haven't experienced a
major problem. I know the officers are going out to the schools and their routes and
staps and we haven't received a large number of complaints. '
�� Tape #CTC-9�.01 of this City TrafFc Commission meet;ng is avai{able for your r�view. Please
contact the Recording Secretary at(714} 744-5536 in this regard, some advance no�ice would be
appreciated.
Minutes of a Re�ular Meetir City Traffic Commission February 11� 1998- Paae 9
VI. ADaOURNMENT
After discussion of all Agenda items af the City Traffic Commission was concluded, and
there being no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, Chairman Yarger
moved for the adjournment of this session of the City Traffic Commission to it's next
regular meeting. The next regularly scheduled meeting of the CTC will be Wednesday -
March 11, 1998.
Respectfully submitted,
CTTY F ORANGE
1 � �---
Phy ` Then
Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
CTTY OF ORANGE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS
TRAFFIC ENGINEERING aIVISION
3OO E. CHAPMAN AVE.
ORANGE, ca 9Z866
PH: (714) 744-5536
FAx: (714) 744-6961
� FEBMINUTES [DISK#ZO]
« Tape #CTC-98.01 of this City TrafFic Commission meeting is available for your revievr. Please
contact the Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard, some advance notice would be
appreciated.