08-11-1999 - Minutes TC 's:::�' .�??
CITY OF ORANGE � {�
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CITY TRAFFIC C�MMISSION ���'������������
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1�6inutes o�a Regular Meeting: August 11, 1999
1. OPEN I I�1G
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call:
Present-Commissioners: D.Yarger,J.Fortier, F.Petronella, W.Poutsma,
F.Sciarra
Present-Staff: H.Bahadori, W.Winthers, Sgt. B.Green, C.Glass,
D.Allenbach, P.Then
C. Approval of Minutes:
June 9, 1999-Approve as published by the Recording Secretary.
� ,
MOTION: F. Sciarra
SECOND: J. Fortier
�eYES: Unanimous
D. Items To Be Continued or Withdrawn
None this meeting.
II. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Request for the installation of red curb markings on the north side of Grove Ave. for the
driveway that services the business at 2015 N. Batavia St.
B i I I Pate
2015 N. Batavia St.
Orange, CA 92865
Oral presentation is based on the writ�en staff report, please refer�o your copy. There was
no discussion of this request.
ACTION: -
1. Approve the request and install 40 ft. of red curb markings on the west side of the
driveway, and 30 ft. on the east side; and
2. Remove the N2 HOUR" time limit parking restrictions on the west side of the driveway.
� MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: J. Fortier
AYES: Unanimous
Tape#CTG99.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secretary.at(714) 744-5534 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
i�Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission-August 11, 1999 Page 2
B. Request to add the 3700 block of E. Palmyra Ave. to the Neighborhood Parking
Permit Program.
� Adolfo Espinosa
3 74� E. Pal myra Ave. ,
Orange CA 92869 .
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. There was
no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Approve the request adding the 3700 block of E. Palmyra Ave. to Parking Permit
Area NI", including up to 3828 E, Palmyra Ave. and the residents on the north
side up to Thomas St.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: ). Fortier
AYES: Unanimous � -
Ce Request for the removal of red curb markings in front of 2968 N. Cottonwood St.
Raymond &)oyce Quast
2968 N. Cottonwood St.
Orange CA 92865
Ora!presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. There was
no discussion of this request. �
ACTION: �
1. Approve the request to remove the existing red curb in front of 2968 N. Cottonwood St.
2. leave 20 ft. of red curb markings on the north side of Riverboat Way.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: J. Fortier
AYES: Unanimous
111.CONSIDERATION ITEMS
A. Report and recommendations from Fire Chief Bonacker on the citywide speed hump
moratorium. �,.
Chief Vincent Bonacker
Orange Fire Department
CITY OF ORANG E
Oral presentat;on is based on the writ�en staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman
Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussions
Tape#CfG99.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 ir�this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
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V. Bonacker, Chief OFD - I have polled fire department's throughout the United States and
have focused on the results of 3. primary departments, Los Angeles County, the City of
� Portland, OR and Boulder, CO have experience with speed hump and traffic calming
devices. As I started this project many months ago I offered the opinion both as Fire Chief
and as a former Paramedic about the impacts upon response times. On one hand being a
former Paramedic I've arrived on the scene of people in the street and have wondered why
traffic couldn't slow down and on the other hand when I've responded I didn't want to be
hindered in any shape or form in getting to those people that needed help, so I was torn in
two directions when this project started.
, The clear evidence nationwide on it is that while it is a tool it is a controversial tool
inasmuch as related to emergency response for police and fire. So much of our business,
on the Fire side, is directly related to response time and the success or failure, survivability
of patients not only in cardiac arrest situations but in major trauma, serious breathing and
any other type of seriously critical injury relies on how quickly we can arrive on the scene
and intervene. So then the issue is how many delays can we encounter in route to a calf
between where we are when we receive the call and the time we arrive to the site of the
patient.
With all that data in mind and all the review it is the Fire Department's opinion and our
recommendation that we begin now a process of designating not only those streets that
have already been excluded by the City's traffic plan but those streets that we traditionally
use in our emergency responses. As you know we have 7-8 fire stations located
throughout the City and because of that we often use different routes. We know that at a
certain time of day we may not be able to get through a particular intersection so we will
by-pass that and take another route to a call and thereby save ourselves a minute or so in
response ti me. Those are the types of streets that may not necessari ly be on a traffic plan,
however, they are the streets that we use and we want to look at those in hope of
eliminating those as potential candidates for the types of calming devices that really slow
us down.
The issue also is accumulative affect based not only on the type of service delivery we offer
here in the City of �Orange but based on the number of apparatus that will respond to a
medical and fire or hazardous materials event. My report has tried to address the key areas -
of concern I've tried to back it up with the information from the agencies I have received.
We've jusfi done a brief sampling because we only have it on one street in town which just
happens to be right out in front of one of our busiest fire engine and rescue units, so we
were able to see the effect right away. That effect was as we had expected. If you go
north you hit two speed humps and our response time are up by 20 seconds against the
response time prior to their installation. �
Hamid Bahadori, Mgr. Transportation Services -There is a video available for your viewing�
which Chief Bonacker obtained from the City of Portland, OR Fire Dept. showing a test of
traffic calming measures specifically two (2) types of speed humps and one (1) type of mini- :
circle. This video is available if you wish to view it at this time, it runs approximately 5
minutese (CTC views video).
I hope that video was enlightening. The recommendation, to re-phrase Chief Bonacker, is
that you recommend to the City Council to extend the moratorium and direct the Public
Works, Fire and Police Dept. staff to work cooperatively to develop the network of streets
Tape#CTG99.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
�M�Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission-August 11, 1999 Page 4
that the Chief referred to that are beyond the streets that are already exctuded in the
Program. We believe we can come back to you at the October meeting with a report of
the timeline on how long it will take us to develop that work and what the general
guidelines are for its de�elopment.
Mark Levy, 2441 E. Collins Ave. - Handy was scheduled for speed humps and prior to its
implementation the project was put on hold pending a compromise within the
neighborhood. Our goal isn't necessarily that we have to have speed humps, we°re not
advocates of speed humps, but we do advocate traffic Nquieting". Handy certainly meets
and exceeds all the parameters that are delineated within the city's Program guidelines.
We are all certainly very surprised to find that the Nmini-circles" slow the response time
more than the speed humps. At the last meeting of the Ad Hoc Committee, Hamid was
very honest and advised us that Handy St. wouldn't qualify for any physical type of traffic
calming measures at all. Everyone knows we have a high speed traffic.problem, both you
and the City Council have reviewed and agreed with our concerns so we're in a quandary
because while we don't dispute the numbers in the Portland test or Chief Bonacker's
numbers,we really haven't had time to look for ourselves.
Perhaps the Fire Dept. really doesn't need to use Handy St. to access the Presidential tract,
perhaps there is another viable route available to them. I don't want this report filed and I
don't want the City Council to go ahead and develop a circulation element that is going to
preclude us. I think there is still room here for us to come up with some sort of middle
ground, some cooperative effort. The Orange Fire Dept. indicates their goal is to respond
to calls within 5 minutes, however, we have not had the opportunity to review their actual
response records in this regard. I'm not going to negatively impact the people in my area
but at the same time things changed radically last Tuesday when we had our meeting that
basically we went from being conciliatory and compromising to try other non-obtrusive or
non-offensive traffic calming measure to appease our neighbors to find out that basically
we're not going to get anything and the speed is going to remain as it is. The only thing
offered was an attempt to try to change the traffic volume to help remedy our situation.
We support the continuation of the moratorium at this time.
While there are two speed humps on either side of the Fire Station on Shaffer St. we have
� not seen any horrific result from this 20 second delay in response time, we've not seen
people dying or tragedies over there and we may have even been able to keep people from
being killed on that street. I don't think installing a couple of traffic calming devices will
impact the Fire Dept. Mission Statement of a 5 minute response. The Police Dept. can
substantiate the number of speed violations issued on Handy St. with speeds up to 53 MPH
range.
Chairman Yarger-With the state of the current freeway and roadway con�truction projects
which impact us for the next couple of years. The Collins Bridge will be closed again for
some time and Handy St. will be impacted by that bridge closure; so keeping that in mind
the additional 20 seconds delay may be of a significant impact on emergency response
time, and for a cardiac arrest victim that could be critical.
Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing at this time and returns the item to the
Comrr�ission for further discussion and/or a motion.
Tape#CTG99.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
��Printed on Recycled Paper
Iviinutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission-August 11, 1999 Page 5
Chairman Yarger- There is a possibility that the Fire Dept. can analyze using Wanda Rd.
rather than Handy St. that will have to be worked out by them. Do you think October will
give you enough time to do an overlay of the routes?
Hamid Bahadori - At the October meeting we will have a proposed timeline and general
parameters and guidelines for developing that secondary arterial system, which for lack of a
better title we will call the Emergency Response Route System. We will not have the
- ultimate modifications ready by October.
Vice-Chairman Fortier- During this moratorium are we going to be able to work with Mr.
Levy and the Ad Hoc Committee to devise some alternatives such as he has suggested to
either show the committee this won't work or perhaps it will. Is that within our realm of
possibility?
Hamid Bahadori - We have been handling Handy St. because of the history and
background of Handy St. and the time and efforts of people such as Mr. Levy have put into
this project. We have been treating this street separately from the whole moratorium
issue. During the moratorium period we have been meeting with a select group of people
who live in the area and we will continue to meet with them and definitely discuss the
issues Mr. Levy has brought up in this meeting for consideration, we will discuss it further
with Chief Bonacker as to whether Handy can be considered for further traffic calming �
, rr�easures or if there are other alternatives such as volume reductions. I do not believe the
City Council is going to make a final decision on Handy St. until they have a final decision
on the whole package.
ACTI ON:
1. Receive and file Chief Bonacker's report, extend moratorium.
2. Recommend that the City Council direct staff from Fire, Police and Public Works Dept. �
to work cooperatively to rr�odify the City's NResidential Neighborhood Traffic
Management Program" according to the Fire Chief's recommendation and report back
on the status to the CTC at their October 1999, meeting.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECON D: F. Sciarra
AYES: Unanimous
B. Request to change the street name of NThe City Drive" between Chapman Ave. and the
north City limits to NState College Boulevard".
�
Traffic Engineering Division
CITY OF ORANGE
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your copy. There was
- no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Approve the name change from "The City Drive" between Chapman Ave. and
the northerly City limits to "State College Boulevard".
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECON D: W. Poutsrna
AYES: Unanimous
Tape#C1'C-99.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� P6ease contact the Recording Secretar�at(714) 744-5536 in this r.egard,advance notice is appreciated.
��Printed on Recycled Paper �
,
Min�tes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission-August 11, 1999 Page 6
C. Request to change the speed limit on St. College Blvd.from Chapman Ave. to the northerly
City limits from 35 MPH to 40 MPH.
Traffic Engineering Division
CI`fY OF ORANGE
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer�o your copy. There was
no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Change the existing 35 MPH speed limit on St. College Blvd., from Chapman
Ave. to the northerly City limits,to 40 MPH. °
MOTIDN: D. Yarger
SECOND: J. Fortier
� AYES: Unanimous
D. Request to remove the NNO STOPPING - Bus zoNE" signs from the north side of Sycamore
Ave. adjacent to Cambridge Elementary School.
Deborah DiCato, Principal
Cambridge Elementary School
425 N. Cambridge St.
Orange CA 92866
Ora!presentation is based on the writ�en staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman
Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Julie Burns, Asst. Principal - Cambridge Elementary School - I want to thank the
Commission, Dave Allenbach and Sgt. Green who have been extremely responsive to our.
concern about a safe ingress and egress for our students at Cambridge. This is an ongoing
problem on Cambridge, even through we have recently been able to add a crossing guard
at SycamorelCambridge we have a lot of parents that still use the crosswalk at Sycamore
and it has become quite a danger. This will really help because we have a large area and
people are parking anyway even through its a r.ed zone, this will help, we do need to have
that zone of visual safety I think it would be a great help if we could have that.
Vice-Chairman Fortier-�How many cars can you park there now?
u,�l ie B urns-About 4-5 more; but we have also asked parents to drop students off and then
leave the area and not stay. Because of that we have closed our campus in the morning to
have parents come on campus and staying with their children until the bell rings. We
encourage them to drop the students off at 8:00 a.m. and they are supervised until they line
up to enter the classrooms at 8:10 a.m. By not allowing parents to park and come on to
campus that may assist with the problem.
Frank Petronella - You don't have anybody coming to school other than special education
students in buses? �
ulie Burns -That is correct. We have 2 vans that transport our special education students.
We have fiwo other vans that come to the school after school hours, it's usually a pick-up
for the"Y" or Methodist church daycare center.
Tape#CTG99.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
��Printed on Recycled Paper '
Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission-August 11, 1999 Page 7
Vice Chairman Fortier - Wouldn't the removal of the red curb encourage parents to stay
because they would have a place to park?
)ulie Burns -Tha�'s why campus is not open to parents in the morning, they are not allowed
� to come onto the playground with the students. We are working with the school district to
try and develop a "drive-thru" area for student drop-off within this area on Cambridge
because its safer than using Sycamore. We have approximately 775 students even _
thorough we are multi-track we have probably 600 students there at all times. �
Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing at this time and returns the item to the
Commission for further discussion and/or a rnotion.
_ ACTION: Approve the request to remove the "NO STOPPING - BUS ZONE" signs from the
north side of Sycamore Ave. adjacent to Cambridge Elementary School; and
retain 20 ft.of red curb markings on both sides of the school crosswalk.
M�TION: D. Yarger
SECOND: J. Fortier
AYES: Unanimous
Ee Request to waive the access ramp requirement for the installation of handicapped blue
curb markings in front of 235 S. Park St.
Concha Funes
235 S. Park St.
Orange CA 92868
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report,please refer to your copy. There was
no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Deny the request.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECON D: j. Fortier
AYES: Unanimous
IV.ADMI N ISTRATIVE REPORTS
There are no reports this month. . :
Va OttAL PRESENTATION �
None this meeting.
Tape#CTG99.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714) 7445536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
i�Printed on Recycled Paper
Minutes af a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission-August 11, 1999 Page 8
VI.AD)OURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda items of the City Traffic Commission was concluded, and as
there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this
session of the City Traffic Commission at.
The next regularly scheduled meeting of the City Traffic Commission will be Wednesday -
September 8, 1999.
Respectfully submitted, �
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyl I is Then
Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
CITY OF ORANGE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS
TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION
300 E. CHAPMAN AVE.
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 7445536
FAX: (714) 744-69 61
� -MINUTES [DISK#20/THENP]
Tape#CTC 99.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� P{ease contact the Recording Secretary at(714) 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
��
;�Printed on Recycled Paper