11-17-2004 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES
November 17, 2004
Committee Members Present: Jon Califf
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Donnie Dewees
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Dan Ryan, Senior Planner
Committee Member Absent: None
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an administrative session beginning at 5:00 p.m. The meeting adjourned
at approximately 8:25 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 2
1. DRC No.3908-04 -SON LIGHT CHRISTIAN CENTER (Orange Theater)
Request to approve vinyl replacement windows.
172 N. Glassell Street, Old Towne Orange Historic District
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner Historic Preservation
Item Continued from DRC Meetings of May 19, 2004, and October 20, 2004
DRC Action: Final Determination
Committee Members Joe Woollett and Craig Wheeler recused themselves from this item.
Committee Member Wheeler stayed in the room to maintain a quorum. Senior Planner Daniel
Ryan introduced the item, which was continued from the DRC Meetings of May 19, 2004 and
October 20, 2004. The DRC's action on this item is a Final Determination. The applicant is
requesting approval for vinyl replacement windows that were installed on the Son Light
Christian Center building. At the October 20, 2004 DRC Meeting, the applicant's attorney
presented a 37-page summary of information discussing their concerns on the use and
replacement windows on the Son Light Christian Center building. This item was continued to
the DRC Meeting of November 17, 2004, to allow Staff and the DRC Members time to read the
applicant's information. Staff has concerns that the work as proposed does not comply with the
Old Towne Design Standards, Secretary of the Interior's Standards for Rehabilitation/Guidelines
in the use of appropriate materials for contributing historic buildings within the City's Historic
District. Staff recommends that the DRC deny the request to allow the use of vinyl replacement
windows, and that the applicant should remove all vinyl replacement windows and install new
true divided light wood windows that match the historic profile, sash dimension, proportion and
finish in the original wood period windows.
The applicant's attorney, Maryann Cazzell, stated that it would create a hardship for the Son
Light Christian Center to have to replace the windows. Mr. Ryan stated that it was up to the
applicant to figure out how they were going to perform the work within the required period of
time, and Code Enforcement would work with the applicant in that regard, but typically the DRC
does not get involved with hardship issues. Ms. Cazzell asked if there were a reason for this and
were they prohibited from doing so? And Mr. Ryan stated that it just was not one of their
charges, that the DRC reviewed the design aesthetics of the project as they relate to the Old
Town Design Standards and the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and ensure that those
guidelines and standards are interpreted correctly.
The timeframes for completion of the re-work were discussed. Committee member Dewees
asked if the DRC's job was to make a recommendation as to what would be a reasonable time to
accomplish the changes, and Mr. Ryan said that it was. Chair Califf stated that once an
application was received for a building permit, the applicant has, typically, 180 days to pull a
permit, and you can receive a 180-day extension. Once a permit is pulled, you would have two
years to complete the work under the permit. He asked to have this fact confirmed, but he
believes that's the case as set forth in the Uniform Building Code. Mr. Ryan stated that this was
correct.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 3
Chair Califf stated that he was inclined to move that the applicant be required to apply, within 90
days, for a building permit to replace the windows with wood casement windows matching to the
greatest degree possible the original windows which were true divided light, and complete the
construction within the time prescribed by the Uniform Building Code. He noted that this would
effectively give the Son Light Christian Center approximately three years to complete the work,
and he further noted that this would be the same time period that would be given to anyone under
the same circumstances. Mr. Dewees asked that the applicant return with an actual proposal of
what work would be done. Ms. Cazzell asked for specifics on the time allowed to complete the
work, once the permit was received. Chair Califf emphasized that it would be per the time
specified in the Uniform Building Code, and would not be a grant of special privilege to Son
Light Christian Center. Chair Califf stated, again, that the DRC would not consider overriding
the provisions of the Uniform Building Code. That does not prevent the applicant from coming
back before the DRC with the request for a change.
A motion was made by Committee Chair Jon Califf that the applicant be conditioned to replace
the existing vinyl sliding windows with wood casement windows matching as nearly as possible
the original units that were in the building. The applicant shall be subject to the following
conditions:
1. The specific window manufacturer, when it is determined, should be submitted to
Staff and potentially to the DRC at Staff's discretion for review and approval prior to
a building permit being issued.
2. The applicant shall apply for the building permit to restore the windows within 90
days of DRC approval, and complete the permit application process, pull the permit
and complete the work within the time period allowed by the Uniform Building Code
as adopted by the City of Orange.
3. If the applicant puts the property in escrow prior to the above time period, the work
must be completed prior to the close of escrow.
Chair Califf asked if there was any discussion. There was none by the DRC members. Ms.
Cazzell stated that, for the record, Sun Light Christian Center is reserving all its rights.
SECOND: Donnie Dewees
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED
Ms. Roseberry advised the applicant that final determination by the DRC may be appealed to the
Planning Commission. The information on how to do this, she noted, is on the back of the
agenda for this meeting. She stated that, for the record, the appeal must be filed within 1 S
calendar days of the action, and Day 1 would be tomorrow (November 18, 2004). There is a
deposit of $1,000.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 4
2. DRC No. 3957-04 -PAIN DUMONDE @ SALON GALLERY
Request to enclose an exterior building walkway for use as an outdoor patio and waiting
area for a beauty salon and coffee shop
3443 E. Chapman Avenue
Staff Contact: Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Senior Planner Chris Carnes gave the staff overview of this project. The applicant is proposing
the removal of existing walkways and landscaping in front of a commercial building so as to
create an enclosed patio for a waiting area for the salon and outdoor seating for a coffee counter.
Mr. Carnes noted that staff felt that it appeared to be more of an addition, as it does not bear any
of the design features of the existing building. Staff recommended removing the black awning
that is proposed, and perhaps adding some brick trim to the faux stucco wall.
Jeff Rabbit, designer, represented the applicant at the DRC meeting. He noted that he and the
owner, who could not be present, had read Staff's recommendations and really did not find any
objections to the elimination of the awning. He noted that the building face would be covered,
eventually, with some type of vine and that would soften the appearance. He noted that there
were some contemporary elements on the existing building that they tried to replicate, and also to
propose neutral tones for the colors. He further noted that they were open to adding some sort of
a brick element to the building if that is what the DRC wants, and he offered several suggestions
where this could be accomplished.
Committee Member Woollett stated that he was not concerned about making the new patio area
look like the building behind it, as he felt it was important for each of the businesses to establish
a unique look for their property.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that he would very much like to see something in the patio
area that related back to the building so that it did not appear as an isolated element. He didn't,
however, feel strongly about the idea of just the brick trim. What would appeal most to him, he
felt, was if the panels below the laths were brick to match the building. Then the new forms
could be accomplished (the vertical stucco elements) but the base, if made of brick, would show
the relationship between the two. Committee Member Dewees felt the same, however he would
reverse the two, making the pilasters of brick, and the base would be stucco.
A motion was made by Committee Member Craig Wheeler to approve the project subject to the
following conditions:
1. The awning shall be removed from building elevations.
2. That either the wall pilasters of the lower horizontal portions of the wall shall use brick of
a type similar to the existing building.
3. The landscape design be restudied to see if there isn't a better alternative for the
horseshoe bamboo that is specified.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 5
4. A final landscape and irrigation plan be submitted for Staff review.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 6
3. DRC No. 3958-04 -STEVEN AND CAROL YOSHIZUMI
Request to construct an addition that exceeds 20% of the existing floor area
131 N. Waverly Street, Old Towne Orange Historic District
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner Historic Preservation
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner, gave the staff overview. He noted that the applicant proposes to
expand the living area of their one-story residence with a new addition to the rear of their
building. The 713 sq. ft. addition will include two bedrooms and two bathrooms, with a 174 sq.
ft. covered porch to be added to the rear of the new addition. According to the Old Town Design
standards as the addition exceeds 20% of the existing floor area; the project requires approval by
the Planning Commission. The layout of the project has an existing 2-car garage that is a bit
difficult to get into. The area between the existing house and the garage is approximately 16
feet, with about 10 feet between the face of the stoop and the face of the garage. The north edge
of the garage has about a four foot return, and Staff is recommending that they put a strong wall
or a shortened return there, and restore the garage to some kind of carriage style doors. Staff
applied a turning template to the project, and if the garage were to remain where it is, basically
the car would hit the stoop. One possibility may be to close off the door in the kitchen (as there
is another exit), which would also give more counter space in the kitchen. In lieu of that choice,
499 sq. ft. are allowed to be built without requiring a performing 2-car garage. Mr. Ryan said the
addition is well designed, the streetscape pattern is well maintained, the architectural style fits
the building. Staff is recommending approval on the size of the addition, even if it does go to the
Planning Commission, because it cannot be seen from the street, the roof height is not more than
the existing roof height, etc. It meets all the criteria, with the exception of being able to classify
the garage as a working two-car garage because of the allowance is less than the back-up
required.
Douglas Ely, DSE Architecture, introduced himself as the architect on the project. He noted that
the comments made by Mr. Ryan do not show up in the staff report they were given, so he
wanted to qualify the remarks. Chair Califf stated that the requirements were code requirements.
Mr. Ely noted the comment in the staff report that they increase the size of the garage doors. He
stated that the applicants were currently able to park two cars in the garage without the increase
in the garage door size. The applicant, Carol Yoshizumi stated that while it was a bit difficult to
park the cars, but the original doors were old, and to change it would be a shame. Mr. Ely had
prepared and presented a response to the request by Staff to change the garage doors. The
request from Staff was to look into increasing the width of the garage doors. In order to
accomplish they would have to move the existing water heater, and structurally, in order to
widen the door a new 4 x 14 foot header. He believed the building department would also
require them to put in a strong wall, and it is not known if the footing is deep enough to handle
the anchor bolts, etc. So, basically the entire facade would have to be redone. The applicant and
the architect stated their preference to leave the existing garage door as it is, noting that it still
has notes on it from previous owners. The other concern is that once the garage door is off,
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 7
trying to put it back on would be extremely difficult and might not ever function properly. The
extra foot of the opening, they felt, did not justify the rework.
Janet Crenshaw, OTPA, 464 N. Shaffer, stated that she felt the garage was historic, and admired
the existing structure. She noted that was 16-foot back-up space from the garage, and she had
difficulty at her own home with 20 feet. However, there is precedent that has been set, there was
a house on North Orange that had asingle-car garage and they were allowed to keep it.
Committee Member Wheeler asked how that was accomplished, had they been required to obtain
a variance, and Ms. Crenshaw stated that she was not sure. Mr. Ryan stated that he believed this
was allowed because that particular residence had an additional open parking space.
Mr. Ely stated that perhaps the two bottom steps on the stoop could be removed, and there would
be an additional two feet. Mr. Yoshizumi felt the back door was essential because of carrying in
groceries to the kitchen from the garage, etc.
Chair Califf felt that the spirit of the historic building code had been met, and it was designed so
that historic structures as the garage would not have to meet the code exactly, and could remain
intact. He felt this issue was more of a zoning issue.
Jeff Frankel, OTPA, 382 S. Orange Street, stated that he also felt everything should be done to
keep the existing garage just as it is, as well as keeping the original garage doors. Mr. Frankel
did feel that the addition is quite large.
Committee Member Dewees also felt that the design was quite good, and had been accomplished
while keeping the addition out of sight of the street.
Committee Member Wheeler asked how the design of the rear porch came about. Mr. Ely, the
architect, stated that they wanted to have the open porch in front, and the applicant wanted to
have acovered/enclosed porch in back (the applicant noted that they have a 3-year old child).
Mr. Wheeler asked if any windows were planned on the back porch, noting that it was unusual
not to have them. Ms. Yoshizumi felt that for privacy, her child's napping, etc., they would not
have them. She stated that they were not opposed to have them. Mr. Ely stated that they had
discussed framing in a window so that one could be added in the future, but for now did not want
to have one.
A motion was made by Committee Member Craig Wheeler to recommend approval of the
project to the Planning Commission subject to the following conditions:
1. Specify the new window treatment as wood to as closely match the existing windows
as possible, including new window trim to match the existing house window trim.
2. It is the DRC's recommendation that the garage be allowed to remain, as is, without
widening the garage door, but noting it is a matter for the Planning Commission to
consider as a variance item. The suggestion is changing the steps in back to reduce
the stoop is one that the DRC endorses.
3. Change the plane of the eave so as to make it a pop-out, or do so by extending the
barges.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 8
SECOND: Donnie Deweees
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 9
4. DRC No. 3965-04 -FIRE STATION NO. 8 (Capital Improvement Project No. 2681)
Request for preliminary review of conceptual plans for the construction of a new 7,800
square foot fire station (Fire Station No. 8).
5725 East Carver Lane (northeast corner of Cannon Avenue and Carver Lane)
Staff Contact: Jennifer McDonald, Associate Planner/ Environmental Review
Coordinator
DRC Action: Preliminary Review (detailed plans will be submitted to DRC for review at
a later date).
The item was introduced by Jennifer McDonald, Association Planner. She noted that it is a City
Capital Improvement Project. She introduced Jim Nicoloff, the Project Architect, as well as Jack
Thomas from the Fire Department. The project consists of the construction of a new fire station
to replace the existing temporary fire station located on the site. The project also includes
relocation of an existing water utility and enclosing the utility. The architecture is contemporary
Spanish style with a hip the roof and a stucco finish. Ms. McDonald noted that Staff did receive
a cost estimate for the project that was very much over budget, and that they will be reviewing
the design and materials over the next few months in order to get within the project budget. As a
result, the DRC will be presented with several options for the roof and fencing. An overview of
the project was given, noting that the area was predominately single-family residential housing,
and the predominant design is Spanish-style. Only two houses actually face the proposed site.
The overall site is 3.3 acres, and only 1.1 acres are being focused on, due to budget constraints.
It was noted that there is a Metropolitan Water Department (MWD) easement of 50 feet that goes
through the back of the site, and it ultimately does have an impact on the landscape design.
MWD has agreed to allow the driveway pavement across the easement, but the fire department is
precluded from building or planting trees across that easement area. So there is a "hole" in the
landscaping in that area. It was noted that the original budget for the project was developed
approximately 5 years ago, with costs estimated at $240/square foot. Costs today are running at
about $300/square foot and so the design team is faced with a number of challenges on how to
accomplish their task and remain within budget. It was also noted that chain link fencing with a
dark vinyl coating would be used. Committee Member Wheeler asked that instead of chain link
which is not allowed by the City), had they looked into any of the rectilinear mesh fences?
They have been looked at for other projects, and may work well with this one, and may be
considered.
Ms. McDonald stated that the landscape plan, per code, would require approximately 56 trees.
The current plan shows only about 25, and it was noted that the plan addressed (as stated above)
only about 1.5 of the acres on the site. One of the issues is that there are currently several trees
existing on the site, and they appear not to be growing well due to the soil. This needs to be look
into further with the landscape architect, as well as the area where the MWD has their easement
this area can only have ground cover, no trees).
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 10
Staff recommends considering some additional detailing to the building to break up the
considerable massing on the front of the building. Mr. Dewees felt that the break in the roofline,
the entry tower, the clearstory windows, etc., helped greatly to break up the mass. Mr. Wheeler
asked that a roof plan be brought back to the DRC when they bring the plans back for final
review. Mr. Dewees felt that the windows should be enlarged a little bit, and all agreed.
Ms. McDonald noted that the final plans, once completed, for the trash enclosure and the pump
station would also be brought back to the DRC for review.
There was discussion regarding the screening wall for headlights. Jack Thomas from the Fire
Department noted that they had been occupying that property for the past eight years and there
had not been a problem. Still, it would be looked into to avoid any headlamp fall-off into the
adjoining residential neighborhood.
No action -review only.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 11
5. DRC No. 3962-04 -HOME DEPOT
Request to demolish 114,883 square foot commercial building and construct a new
102,000 square foot commercial building with a 31,000 square foot garden center within
an existing shopping center. Parking lot, landscape improvements and signage are also
proposed.
1855 North Tustin Street (northeast corner of Tustin Street and Taft Avenue)
Staff Contact: Anne E. Fox, Contract Planner
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
The project was introduced by Anne Fox, a contract planner with the city. She noted that the
existing commercial structure would be demolished, and the footprint would be reconfigured to
incorporate a 31,000 square foot garden center along with the new 102,000 square foot
commercial building for Home Depot. Additionally, the existing parking lot area, which serves
the entire shopping center, would be upgraded to current City Code requirements in terms of
number of required spaces, and for striping, lighting and landscaping development standards.
Ms. Fox noted that Home Depot has gone to a point distribution system, thus consolidating the
deliveries to the site and eliminating the need for multiple deliveries from each of the separate
good being sold at the site.
Committee Member Wheeler asked about loudspeakers at the site, and would there be paging of
people, etc? Ms. Fox noted that this had been a concern, as Home Depot typically does this. As
it moves forward through the environmental process, the Planning Commission could require
certain restrictions on a conditional use permit to mitigate the noise to the surrounding
neighborhoods (i.e., quiet hours, dark times, etc.)
It was noted that this was not a typical prototype Home Depot Building, but had been designed
specifically for this site.
Committee Member Wheeler questioned the raised parapets on Katella, stating that they read as
a mass, not as a fin. There was consensus with the Committee Members that the fin parapets be
wrapped.
Two different color schemes for the building were presented, and the Committee Members
discussed their preferences. It was agreed that the first color scheme was preferred over the
second.
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to recommend approval of the project
subject to the following conditions:
1. Every effort should be made to mitigate problems with neighbors.
2. Color scheme 1 is preferred over color scheme 2.
3. Final landscape plans to be submitted for approval.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2004
Page 12
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
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