11-07-2001 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES
for Wednesday, November 7, 2001
Committee Members Present: Leonard Filner (Vice Chair)
Susan Secoy
Alice Angus
Joe Woollett (Chair)
Staff in Attendance: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
Howard Morris, Landscape Coordinator
Debbie Ritchey, Recording Secretary
Committee Member Absent: Mark Paone
Administrative Session - 4:30 P.M.
The committee met for an administrative session beginning at 4:30 p.m. The meeting adjourned
at approximately 7:00 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 PM
REVIEW OF MINUTES:
A motion was made by Committee Member Alice Angus to approve the August 22, 2001
minutes with the following corrections:
Page 1, Committee Members Absent amended as follows:
Leonard Filner ~`~~~e-^~:rT (Vice Chair)
DRC #3559 Lis Guisto, page 4, paragraph 1, sentence 2 amended as follows:
The proposal is to use an alternate wood siding material that has a slightly different profile than
the sample wood siding that was approved at the September 13, ~'~ 2000 DRC meeting.
SECOND:Susan Secoy
AYES:Alice Angus, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:Leonard Filner, Mark Paone,
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2001
Page 2
1. DRC No. 3669 -DONALD BERNARD
New landscape planter and replacement brick staircase at the front porch of an existing
residence in Old Towne.
230 S. Grand Street (Contributing Structure)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation
DRC Action: Final Determination
Continued from 9-5-2001 & 10-10-2001 DRC meetings)
A request from applicant was received to continue the item)
MOTION was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to continue the project.
SECOND:Leonard Filner
AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2001
Page 3
2. DRC No. 3675 -TOWN & COUNTRY CARWASH
Modifications of an existing freestanding sign for a carwash facility.
2747 E. Chapman Avenue
Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Applicants Barry Konier and Tom Olsen gave brief description of the project. They purchased
the carwash a year ago in January. When purchased the sign was all blue with blue trim. They
painted the sign approximately 6 or 7 months ago with a brown trim on it. They hired a
consultant to help them decide what color to paint the sign to attract more attention to the
building, and one of the recommendations was to paint it the current yellow color. They did not
realize that they needed to obtain a permit to change the sign. They were told that someone
had called the City and complained of the bright yellow color on the sign. Mr. Konier and Mr.
Olsen went up and down the street themselves to see if there were any signs with similar colors
and found the Shell and Unocal stations also had bright colors. They understand that the
recommendation from the City is to paint the perimeter white and the applicants are asking to
keep it yellow. The carwash also has the yellow on the gates as people enter the carwash. It
was painted at the same time the sign was painted.
Committee Member Mark Paone asked staff member Chuck Lau -Associate Planner, what the
original color of the columns were; Mr. Lau answered they were white originally and then
changed to blue. There was never any complaint about the blue because it didn't draw attention
to it the way the yellow does.
Committee Member Susan Secoy spoke of the original plans with the white and how everything
was white to tie it all together.
Committee Member Mark Paone discussed procedures and the committee's task of looking at
the whole project, the design of the building, the design of the sign, the color and how the
committee has to make sure the project is consistent with the environment and neighbor's
contents. When someone complains it comes back to the committee. Committee Member
Mark Paone does not believe the yellow is consistent with the cottage look of the carwash. The
color does not necessarily need to be white, however, white is the easy answer. The items that
have been painted yellow are a deviation of the original Conditional Use Permit.
Applicant Barry Konier was of the understanding that they could paint the building any color they
want and the City has no control over that. Committee Member Mark Paone stated that was not
correct under the provisions of a conditional use permit, and Committee Member Alice Angus
agreed. Originally the project went through a process, colors and the design scheme were
called out, and any change to that has to come back through an approval process.
Applicant Tom Olsen asked if they need to come back to Design Review if they want to change
the color of the building. Committee Member Alice Angus answered yes. The applicants had
the building reviewed for compliance with "Feng Shui" (the Chinese Art of Placement) and to
advise them on exactly what needed to be painted to draw more attention to the business.
Applicant Barry Konier also stated that in the time they have owned the business, there have
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2001
Page 4
DRC No. 3675 -TOWN 7 COUNTRY CARWASH (Continued)
been no complaints from their neighbors because they cooperate with everybody. He thinks the
sign is attractive and that it draws attention to the business.
There was a discussion between Committee Members and applicants on different options that
could be done.
Committee Member Mark Paone advised the applicants to paint everything back to the same
white as the trim on the building and get rid of all the yellow and if the applicants want to make a
color change they have to re-submit. If they are planning on painting the building, they could
probably tie it in right now and continue the item, but if it's going to be 6 months before painting
the building, the Committee cannot wait 6 months to get rid of the yellow.
Applicant Tom Olsen asked what had to be submitted to change the color on the building to
which Committee Member Mark Paone answered that staff member Chuck Lau could walk them
through the process.
MOTION was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to approve the project, subject to the
following conditions:
1. The freestanding sign structure shall be painted white to match the architectural trims
and details, and other design elements of the existing carwash building.
2. The yellow presently on the carwash building shall also be painted back to the original
approval (white) on the Conditional Use Permit.
The approval is based on the following findings:
1. The proposed signage incorporates design elements including materials, lettering style,
space, color, illumination and sign type that are integrated.
2. The proposed signage utilizes materials, colors, and design motifs that are compatible
with the building that is being identified.
3. The proposed signage will not adversely affect surrounding land uses or obscure
adjacent conforming signs.
4. The project design upholds community aesthetics through the use of an internally
consistent, integrated design theme and is consistent with all adopted specific plans,
applicable design standards and their required findings.
SECOND:Alice Angus
AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2001
Page 5
3. DRC No. 3679 -STEAK ESCAPE
Fagade remodel and wall signs for a new restaurant in an existing building.
445 S. Main Street
Staff Contact: Mario Chavez-Marquez, Planning Aide
DRC Action: Final Determination
Elizabeth Koh -Architect representing the Steak Escape presented the project. The Steak Escape
is taking a portion of the building on 445 S. Main. Half of the building is currently occupied by a
check cashing business. The tenant is actually asub-lessee. They are proposing to modify the
exterior of lease space and there will also be an interior tenant improvement. They want to
define their space from the tenants space by creating a parapet on the store front that faces the
parking lot and one facing the main street. They propose to sandblast the exterior white paint
that covers the existing brick facade so that it will bring the natural brick color out. They
propose to install a main entrance. There are currently two existing exit/entrances and they want
customers to come in through the front. One of staff s recommendations noted that the window
graphic had exceeded the allowed square footage. The applicant indicated that if they are not
allowed to put up the graphic, they will either white it out or put frosting on the window so you
can't see in at all. The color concept will be simple beige stucco coloring for the parapet and
green awnings and green trim around the edge. The aluminum storefront will also be painted
green to match. New channel letter signs will be installed, internally lit, monument signs will be
replaced, and gooseneck lighting is proposed to be installed to highlight the parapet. The site
plan has been modified to comply with drive aisle vehicular stacking requirements. They also
have to re-stripe the entire parking area. As sub-lessee this is beyond their scope of work, but
they are willing to do it. They are also willing to modify and improve the existing landscaping.
They will follow the same design pattern all around (front, side and portion of back area).
Committee Member Joe Woollett spoke regarding the glass area that the applicant wants to
obscure. Ms. Koh stated they want to do that as they have to build a restroom in that specific
area. The graphics will be installed from the inside (frosted graphic).
Committee Member Joe Woollett stated his understanding was that this was against the rules
per the City, and that the City sees that as a sign and will not permit it. Staff members Chuck
Lau and Mario Chavez-Marquez stated that up to 25% of the window area is allowed for window
signs. Ms. Koh responded that they would take the graphics out of the plans (as it would look
very odd to only have 25% graphics) and just frost the side so you can't look in, but it will blend
in with the existing windows. It's an application that you put on the window and looks frosted or
opaque, and you can't look in or out even at night time.
Committee Member Mark Paone had some concern about putting on a film type material to
obscured glass, and that it changes the characteristics of the glass a bit, sometimes enough to
crack it. Ms. Koh stated they have used this particular material several times and have had
good luck with it.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2001
Page ~
3. DRC No. 3679- STEAK ESCAPE (Continued)
Committee Member Mark Paone also asked about the remodeling inside the building that was
being done and asked if a new mechanical system was being installed and Ms. Koh said that a
new mechanical system would be installed that will have a hood protruding through the rooftop.
The current parapet obscures the units from all sides.
Committee Member Mark Paone stated that documentation should clearly state that parapet
blocks views from all sides. He also wanted the applicant to know that one of the committees
tasks is to make sure that every project is internally consistent and that committee is struggling
with this project where only half of the building is being improved and remodeled.
Ms. Koh understands the consistency the committee wants to have the whole building upgraded
to same type of architectural style. But this is a problem as the landlord has a very good thing
going with the check cashing business next door and has no incentives to make any
improvements including parking and landscape and the check cashing business has no
intentions to spend money to upgrade their own place. So the burden is on the applicant to do
the improvements themselves. The building now is very inconsistent as they have two different
facades, the cash and check place has black aluminum all around and existing space has
orange, yellow and blue. One idea is to paint all of the aluminum black to match the check
cashing business. Staff recommended to jog the parapet and install a separate awning.
Committee Member Mark Paone said this is part of the problem. He wants to look at the project
and get an answer that works for the building. The primary tenant does not seem motivated at
this time to make any improvements. ~He said that the other tenant needs to come up with an
idea how the whole building could be upgraded, resolve sign problems, and bring the whole
thing together. Ms. Koh stated again that they have no plans for upgrading and that they can't
make them change to go along with their plans of remodeling. Committee Member Mark Paone
offered suggestions on ways the applicant could handle the situation with the landlord to
possibly get some cooperation from them. Ms. Koh feels this puts her client in a difficult
position, so that they can't open the business because they don't have cooperation from tenants
or landlords. After more discussion, Committee Member Mark Paone still has a problem making
a finding that says this is an internally consistent solution.
Committee Member Susan Secoy concurs with the negotiation process saying she too is an
architect and involved quite often with retailers and what they negotiate with the landlord who
owns the property. It is part of the process and not an easy battle. Some homework needs to
be done. She likes the proposal but has a real problem with the parapet and the inconsistency
of taking such a small building and chopping it up even further, into smaller pieces. She cannot
support this particular proposal.
Committee Member Joe Woollett's primary concern is "fit", because it is such a small building.
He is concerned about the relationship of the building to the community as well as the building
itself. He would hope something can be worked out to change the existing parapet. Ms. Koh
stated they could take the parapet out if that was the main concern or she could propose to
keep the space as is and just paint the exterior, sandblast their side, put up a sign, and keep the
parapet as is, to which Committee Member Mark Paone stated maybe that was the solution.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2001
Page ~
3. DRC No. 3679- STEAK ESCAPE (Continued)
Committee Member Joe Woollett understands there is a problem with the sign at the check
cashing place and asked if Ms. Koh was aware of this to which she answered, "Yes, and that
she had been told".
Ms. Koh wanted to get input and suggestions what they need to do to keep the project moving
along. Committee Members all agreed that a re-submittal was necessary with elevations and an
evaluation of sign placement, etc. Other work needs to be done such as showing detail on
landscaping/vegetation, handicap access, parapet, and irrigation. Ms. Koh stated the project
would be re-evaluate and go with the original proposal, to keep the building as is
MOTION was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to continue the project
SECOND:Susan Secoy
AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2001
Page 8
4. DRC No. 3681 -CON-WAY TRANSPORTATION SERVICES, INC.
New freestanding sign for a newly expanded trucking terminal facility.
2102 N. Batavia Street
Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Approved as Consent Item)
MOTION was made by Mark Paone to approve the project as submitted.
SECOND:Susan Secoy
AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2001
Page 9
5. DRC No. 3885 - KAUFMAN & BROAD
Proposed 122 dwelling unit residential subdivision.
Tract No. 14360 (North of Serrano Avenue, west of Nohl Ranch Road)
Staff Contact: Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
A request from the applicant was received to continue the item)
MOTION was made by Susan Secoy to continue the project per the applicant's request.
SECOND: Alice Angus
AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
DRC 11-07-01 Minutes