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10-24-2001 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES for Wednesday, October 24, 2001 Committee Members Present: Leonard Filner (Vice Chair) Mark Paone Susan Secoy Karen Sully* Joe Woollett (Chair) Replaced Alice Angus for this meeting) Staff in Attendance: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner Howard Morris, Landscape Coordinator Debbie Richey, Planning Secretary Committee Member Absent: Alice Angus Administrative Session - 4:30 P.M. The committee met for an administrative session beginning at 4:30 p.m. The meeting adjourned at approximately 7:10 p.m. Regular Session - 5:30 PM REVIEW OF MINUTES: A motion was made by Committee Member Susan Secoy to approve the October 10, 2001 minutes with the following correction: DRC #:3674 -Phil Doyon, page 4, paragraph 7, sentence 1 amended as follows: Committee Member Susan Secoy indicated that she hates to see a an historic structure being developed beyond recognition, however, it is well documented that this addition occurred in the 60's, and has been there for 40 years. SECOND:Leonard Filner AYES:Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Karen Sully, Joe Woollett NOES:None ABSENT:Alice Angus ABSTAINED:None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for October 24, 2001 Page 2 1. DRC No. 3614 -GREG & MARILYNN EARLY New residential addition within the Old Towne District to include 650 sq. ft. of bathroom, laundry, stairway and 2-car attached garage on the first floor, and 937 sq. ft. of new second floor area consisting of bedrooms, bathrooms, closets and sleeping porch. 142 N. Cambridge Street (Contributing Structure) Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan -Senior Planner, Historic Preservation DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission Committee Member Susan Secoy stated she would be abstaining from this item as she is representing the applicant. Susan Secoy, Project Architect gave a brief history of the project. The project was previously submitted approximately a year ago with a different Architect. It was returned at that time for not being acceptable. It was too large and the bulkiness was a problem. More study needed to be done and it was then re-worked. This is when Secoy Architects took the project over and looked at the project to see what they needed to do to meet the clients needs and make the project acceptable and also to meet the requirements of Old Towne and the Design Review Committee (DRC). It came back to the DRC on September 5, 2001 for additional feedback. On the revised submittal, the floor plan and elevations were changed considerably to be more sensitive to the contributing structure. Committee Member Mark Paone stated when project was turned down before, for some of them it was because of the bulk & mass and for the others it was not being able to tell the identifying characteristics of the original structure. Susan Secoy stated that with the revised plans, the issue of identifying characteristics has been addressed by having part of the existing structure to remain intact. The project has gone through several design studies and in doing so the bulk and mass have also been significantly reduced. Committee Member Joe Woollett asked approximately how far back to the west does the existing roof go. Susan Secoy replied that from the front of the eve to the porch is approximately 20 ft. back. Committee Member Mark Paone asked if the roof of the sleeping porch is a trellis or covered roof. Susan Secoy replied that it is a covered roof over the trellis to keep the sleeping porch sheltered. Committee Member Joe Woollett noted that where the second floor had been extended it has now been cut back. He also asked if the front setback of the house is the same as the neighboring houses. Applicant Marilynn Early stated that it is the same City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for October 24, 2001 Page 3 DRC No. 3614 -GREG & MARILYNN EARLY (Continued) The meeting was opened for public comments. Janet Crenshaw - 464 N. Shaffer -She loves the house. Her concern is whether the house will still be a contributing structure. She likes the idea that this project was cut back, but stated again her concern of it still being a contributing structure. Jeff Frankel - 384 S. Orange St. - OTPA - He thinks the design is good, but still looks rather large on the north elevation, but the front looks really good. It still has an attached garage and that seems to be inconsistent with Old Towne Orange in general. Susan Secoy stated that several studies have been done and the reason they have been rather stubborn on this issue is because of the yard and site. They are trying to maintain as much landscape as possible. This solution does appear to do that. The garage is in the back so it does really go back to a historic time when you didn't look at garages at all. They are looking at garage doors that will be historically correct, and the owners have done an excellent job in restoring the interior of the house and they are excited to work with them to continue that quality. Committee Member Mark Paone -addressing two issues from public comments 1) It has been stated that this project isn't consistent with Old Towne Guidelines but he believes it is; 2) regarding listing as contributing structure - Mr. Dan Ryan, Senior Planner - Historic Preservation, noted in his report that with the proposed modifications to the original structure, that it would no longer be eligible for listing as a contributing structure. Mr. Ryan is the person who makes this determination. However, Mr. Paone feels that the original building is clearly identifiable and it is also reversible (only a matter of money), and therefore he feels it should not be rejected on the basis of money. Susan Secoy agreed, as they have been sensitive to that issue. The elevations that are being modified are the ones that have already been modified to such an extent that there is not a significant historical issue. Committee Member Mark Paone thinks that the proposed project is consistent with the original building and architectural style within the community. Mr. Paone asked if the applicants will return with landscape plans. He is curious to see how that develops because it appears that there is limited space with opportunities for landscaping along the wall. This is not an insurmountable challenge, but it needs some attention. He suggested that the applicants come back with landscape plans. Susan Secoy stated that she intends to provide a landscape design but hopes that it doesn't prevent the project from moving forward. Acting Committee Member Karen Sully feels this is a beautiful design, and that she likes the transition from the neighboring medical center to residential. She is in support of the project. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for October 24, 2001 Page 4 1. DRC No. 3614 -GREG & MARILYNN EARLY (Continued) Committee Member Leonard Filner was initially concerned with the issue of bulk & mass. Now that the plans have been revised, but with maintaining the integrity of the original structure, he is swayed in favor of the project. He would still like to see landscape along the south side, especially by the driveway. Committee Member Joe Woollett is fully in support of the project and feels that it is consistent with Old Towne. Committee Member Mark Paone stated that he believes the project is consistent with the Secretary of the Interior Standards in terms of eligibility for listing as a contributing structure within the Old Towne Historic District. Acting Committee Member Karen Sully agreed that the status of the listing should be maintained. MOTION was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to recommend approval of the project to the Planning Commission, subject the following conditions: 1. Prior to issuance of building permits, submit final landscape plans to DRC for approval. 2. The sleeping porch consists of a roof over trellis. The recommendation for approval is based on the following findings: 1. The proposed work conforms to the standards and design criteria referenced and/or recommended by the Design Review Committee or other reviewing body for the project. 2. The proposed work complies with the Secretary of the Interior Standards for Rehabilitation and Guidelines for Rehabilitation. 3. The proposed work will neither adversely affect the significant architectural features of the building, nor adversely affect the character of historical, architectural, or aesthetic interest or value of the building, its site, or the surrounding neighborhood. SECOND: Leonard Filner AYES: Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Karen Sully, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSENT: Alice Angus ABSTAINED: Susan Secoy MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for October 24, 2001 Page 5 2. DRC No. 3677 - FAZOLI'S RESTAURANT New 3,118 sq. ft. restaurant with drive-thru lane to replace an existing restaurant. 1333 N. Glassell Street Staff Contact: Anna Pehoushek -Senior Planner DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission Fred Cook -Architect, presented background information on the project. This will be the second Fazoli's Restaurant on the West Coast (they are mainly on the East coast). The project is located at Katella/Glassell and is an existing Mexican restaurant. They will demolish the existing restaurant and construct a new building for Fazoli's restaurant. Committee Member Susan Secoy asked why they decided to go with two different roof materials standing seam metal vs. tile). Fred Cook stated he would not have a problem with the use of only one type of roof material to keep it more consistent. This probably will not be a problem, but this is how it was done on other projects so they will have to check with the owner. The applicant and committee members also discussed the issue of reducing noise at the drive- up window for the adjacent residences to the north. Possible solutions included order confirmation boards, landscaping, or a solid wall. Fred Cook stated that he is hesitant to put up a wall because security can be an issue. They have had problems with walls on previous projects where people didn't feel safe in the drive-up window with a wall up so close where people can hide, etc. (especially high crime areas). The Police Department doesn't like it because they would like to be able to drive by in their patrol vehicles and see the area completely. Committee Member Joe Woollett asks staff if the City of Orange had an ordinance regarding allowable noise levels. Chuck Lau -Associate Planner stated that the City of Orange does an ordinance that regulates maximum allowable noise levels. Committee Member Mark Paone asks it it's necessary for DRC to do anything or does this become an issue that the Planning Department will go out and take a reading that this is in compliance, prior to Certificate of Occupancy. Chuck Lau -Associate Planner stated that a consultant would be asked to take a reading and would test it from a certain distance. The applicant and committee members also discussed regarding the appearance of the building: 1) Change the exterior to match adjacent shopping centers. Mr. Cook's concern was that the client may feel he is losing too much of the character of the look of an Italian Restaurant. 2) The type of roof the used. Committee Member Leonard Filner felt this was not a City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for October 24, 2001 Page 6 DRC No. 3677 - FAZOLI'S RESTAURANT (Continued) problem and that the parapet doesn't necessarily have to look like the rest of the center, it needs character Other Committee Members preferred the use of the same tile. If the decision were made to use the standing seam metal roof, the project would be approvable at this time. The applicants were open to making the changes but not without checking with the client first. MOTION was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to approve the project, subject the following conditions: 1. Prior to issuance of building permits, detailed sign plans shall be submitted to the Design Review Committee for final approval. All signage shall be integrated with the proposed building, and shall be deemed consistent with the underlying design theme. 2. The stone veneer base shall be continued around the entire perimeter of the proposed building. 3. The drive-thru window building extension shall be expanded by two feet to the south, as shown in "Exhibit A". This is intended to provide the proposed awning with sufficient spacing from the edge of the building wall. 4. The applicant shall integrate the "barrel tile" building extension into the primary building's mass by extending the roof and parapet walls northward as depicted in "Exhibit B". 5. Applicant shall provide a standing seam metal roof throughout with plaster type molding or provide barrel the roof throughout with parapet either barrel the or plaster and if the option using the is chosen, applicant shall return to DRC with a revised materials board for final approval. 6. Submit final landscape plans to Department of Services for approval. (Final plans to include City required inspection notes). 7. If the applicant chooses to use the standing seam metal roof with the crown molding, the revised plans may be reviewed and approved by City staff and would not required further review by the DRC. If the applicant chooses to use the the roof, then the revised plans and a sample of the the material must be submitted to the DRC for review and approval. The recommendation for approval is based on the following finding: 1. The project design upholds community aesthetics through the use of an internally consistent, integrated design theme and is consistent with all adopted specific plans, applicable design standards and their required findings. SECOND: Karen Sully AYES: Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Karen Sully, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSENT: Alice Angus ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for October 24, 2001 Page 7 3. DRC No. 3678 -MICHAEL & VALERIE NOBLE New 504 sq. ft. second dwelling unit on a 7,840 sq. ft. lot that contains an existing Craftsman Bungalow located within the Old Towne District. 173 S. Cypress Street (Contributing Structure) Staff Contact: Chuck Lau -Associate Planner DRC Action: Final Determination Nick Reich (representative for applicants) presented the project. The proposal is to construct a 504 sq.ft. second dwelling unit for their mother (Valerie Noble is his sister) and would like to get approval to move ahead with the project. Committee Member Joe Woollett requested for an explanation of all the asphalt on the property. Nick Reich stated that all the paving are existing and they would be agreeable to removing some of the paving to add turf or landscaping. The meeting was opened for public comments. Jeff Frankel - 384 S. Orange Street - OTPA -Wanted to know what kind of material the windows were, and the distance from grade to top of siding. He also wanted to know how big the columns were because it looks like one column was consistent with the original house but the other one didn't look like there was enough space. Janet Crenshaw - 464 N. Shaffer -Curious about the covered parking spaces what was covered? Mr. Reich responded that the plans had been revised. It is presently a covered carport and they would like to eliminate it to create more open space. She also asked why the project is not considered a granny unit so it doesn't have to have so much parking. (Mr. Lau replied that because the subject property is zoned R-2). Nick Reich stated that the windows are wood, as for the columns they would match the existing structure. His intent was to just show the 6 x 6 post in the middle, and it may need to be set back as it does look different on the elevation plans. Committee Member Susan Secoy agrees with the fact that the structure has been very well maintained and the applicants have been very sympathetic to it. A common concern right now is all of the asphalt and if it can be improved upon. She asked if the applicants would be opposed to putting in more landscaping up to the property line to divide the two drive-ways since saw-cutting would be done anyway. Committee Member Mark Paone asked why is the driveway a shared driveway. Nick Reich replied that it's a shared common easement. Two separate families have shared the driveway for years. It used to be a gravel driveway and the property was purchased that way. Committee Member Mark Paone is in support of the project, but stated the site plan still needed work. He feels that the house does fit in nicely, but the site plan doesn't fit in because of the large amount of covered surface and that is an issue with the Committee. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for October 24, 2001 Page 8 3. DRC No. 3678 -MICHAEL & VALERIE NOBLE (Continued) Mr. Reich discussed with the DRC on what other alternative materials could be used in lieu of the asphalt. He does not want to put a planter right next to the garage as that is where trashcans are kept and he would just like to put a walkway. Valerie Noble stated that there is an ongoing problem with the driveway. The neighbors and them have hesitated putting money into the driveway because the industrial business across the street uses their driveway for turning around their large trucks because it is a wide driveway. The Committee members are in support of the project, but are just requesting work on the site plan and the landscaping. MOTION was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to continue the project so that the applicants can come back with new plans and respond to the DRC's comments. SECOND:Susan Secoy AYES:Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Karen Sully, Joe Woollett NOES:None ABSENT:Alice Angus ABSTAINED:None MOTION CARRIED DRC 10-24-01 Minutes