10-20-2004 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES
October 20, 2004
Committee Members Present: Jon Califf
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Donnie Dewees
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Dan Ryan, Senior Historic Planner
Committee Member Absent: None
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an administrative session beginning at 5:00 p.m. The meeting adjourned
at approximately 9:15 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 2
2. DRC No. 3942-04 - OLSON COMPANY CONDOMINIUMS
No Staff Report included for this item. Plans presented to the DRC at the meeting.)
Proposal for an eighteen (18) tuck-under, 3-bedrooms - 2 % bath town homes, each with
a two-car garage. Five (5) onsite guest parking spaces.
Three lots at the intersection of Compton Avenue and Manchester Avenue (site of the
old fire station and two additional remnant parcels from the I-5 Freeway.)
Staff Contact: Christine Kelly, Contract Project Manager
Item continued from DRC meeting of October 6, 2004
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Christine Kelly, Contract Project Manager, gave the staff report. This project had been
continued from the October 6, 2004 DRC Meeting. The Committee Members had made the
following comments at the October 6, 2004 meeting, and the applicants were returning to finalize
these items:
Regarding grouping of vents: the DRC would prefer to have them on the back,
with all of the plumbing vents grouped together
Chair Califf noted that the above was made as an advisory comment, because it helped to keep
the roofline clean. The applicants agreed.
An additional item was carried over from the October 6, 2004 meeting:
Applicant to note on the final plans the specific type of trash enclosure (split face,
or stucco to match the building).
The applicant presented their proposal for the type of trash enclosure and DRC committee
members discussed it. It was noted by Committee Members that it was aesthetically more
pleasing to have the split face on both sides of the concrete walls. The standard conditions, in
addition to the landscape plans, were discussed at the October 6, 2004 meeting. This included
changes as to spacing and sizing of the trees in some of the entry areas, and all changes have
been made to the final landscape plans.
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to recommend approval of the project
subject to the following conditions:
1. Concrete block walls have the split face finish on both sides.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 3
2. DRC No.3908-04 -SON LIGHT CHRISTIAN CENTER (Orange Theater)
Request to approve vinyl replacement windows, and marquee sign modifications.
172 N. Glassell Street (within the Old Towne Historic District)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner
Item Continued from DRC Meeting of May 19, 2004
DRC Action: Final Determination
Craig Wheeler recused himself, as his office is within 500 feet of this project; Joe Woollett stated
that he would be present, but not acting upon this issue, as his office is also within 500 feet.
Maryann Cazzell introduced herself as the attorney for Son Light Christian Center, and
introduced Pastor Joseph Magliato, as well. Ms. Cazzell stated that she had brought in some
supplemental material to Daniel Ryan and asked that they be circulated to the Committee
Members. It was confirmed that the Committee had received the materials. Chair Califf stated
that they had a chance to briefly read through the materials and that they were quite extensive; if,
in fact, they were to be considered, he suggested that perhaps more time be given to the issue.
Ms. Cazzell was in favor of this. Chair Califf also stated that there were some issues that were
beyond the scope of the DRC to determine regarding the applicability of some of the standards.
Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner, was invited to give the staff presentation. He noted that this was a
continued item from a previous meeting, and that there were two issues before the Committee.
One is the replacement windows on the church building, and the other is the marquee itself. He
recapped that at the last DRC meeting the members were invited to go and look at the
replacement windows, to see the installation/materials and how the windows were viewed both
internally and externally, and he stated that this had been done. Mr. Ryan stated that, to clarify,
the building was originally listed in the Plaza District as a contributing building, and it is on the
inventory of historic structures identified as Building 502, 172 N. Glassell. The applicant, he
noted, was looking to modify the existing historic marquee sign, and to get approval for vinyl
replacement windows that were installed. Mr. Ryan reviewed the Secretary of the Interior's
standards for the treatment of historic properties, and specifically the general ones were
identifying, retaining and preserving windows and their functional decorative features from the
restoration period. When restoration to a window using the same kind of replacement material is
deemed technically or economically infeasible, or when a window has deteriorated beyond
repair, then a compatible substitute material may be considered. Mr. Ryan highlighted several
restoration methods that were not recommended, noting the Secretary of Interior standards that
would cause a historic building to be removed from the Historic Register and that included not
replacing windows/doors/sashes, etc., with in kind materials. Mr. Ryan summarized that staff
was recommending denying allowing the use of vinyl replacement windows, and that applicant
should remove all vinyl replacement windows and reinstall the original divided light wood
windows, and/or install new wood windows that match the original period windows. Further, he
reiterated that staff's response to the marquee changes were the same as noted in the previous
meeting. Mr. Ryan expressed that the Son Light Christian Center had maintained the inside of
the building quite well.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 4
Ms. Cazzell stated that Son Light Christian Center had withdrawn the marquee part of the
application, but they were requesting retroactive approval of the windows. She said that the
church was not aware that they needed permits to replace the windows at the time they were
installed, which was why they were requesting retroactive approval. She stated that she had not
seen the CEQA standards that Mr. Ryan referenced, and felt that there may be a Brown Act
violation in this, and she may need an additional 72 hours to review these materials. Ms. Cazzell
felt that Mr. Ryan was reading from a report that she did not have. Mr. Ryan stated that it was a
staff report that was copied to the applicant. Ms. Roseberry, Planning Manager, clarified that the
DRC would not be making a determination on the CEQA guidelines, and therefore there would
not be a Brown Act violation. Mr. Ryan stated that in Ms. Cazzell's letter to the City she
referred to the fact that changing the windows would not be considered adverse and cause the
building not to be listed in the Historic Register, however the local CEQA guidelines discussed
thresholds, and one of the thresholds is replacing windows that do not match with in kind
materials.
Ms. Cazzell reiterated the applicant's point of view that the replacement windows are far
superior to what was originally in place, and that they look very similar to what was there before,
with the exception that the second floor windows (facing east) were restored to something much
closer to the original ones. She presented additional photographs, stating that she felt there was
some concern regarding selective enforcement, if the argument is that anything within the
historic district is a historic building and would have to comply with the guidelines, then all of
the building should have to comply. She referenced the northwest corner of the plaza where
there were louvered windows, which were not original to the time period, and should have been
the divided windows. Chair Califf clarified one issue: because a building is within the National
Register District, it does not mean that it individually is therefore a historic building. Some of
the buildings that Ms. Cazzell referenced may be a modern building within the historic district,
and therefore the same rules do not apply. Ms. Cazzell stated that they had made a public
records request for documents to see if the church had been notified of the application to convert
to a historic district, and she further noted that there may be a constitutional church and state
issue, First Amendment, and U.S. and California constitution issue. After stating this, she said
that they don't want to get into all of that, they just want to get the replacement windows
approved as they are already in and cannot be removed, as far as she knows, without structural
damage or great expense to the church.
The public was invited to speak:
Opposed:
Janet Crenshaw, OTPA, 464 N. Shaffer -stated that she was at the last DRC meeting and read
the minutes and staff reports, and noted that the applicant had said at the last meeting that the
building was not historic, and in fact it is. She applauded the staff recommendations.
Jeff Frankel, OTPA, 384 S. Orange -stated that OTPA's response was still the same as at the
last meeting. The vinyl windows were installed contrary to the standards and without review,
and if the original windows are still available they should be reinstalled; if not, vinyl windows
should be removed and windows of in kind material (wood) should be installed in the same
design profile as the original windows.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 5
The committee members and Ms. Cazell discussed the quote for replacement of the windows
16,000 for materials, and $9600 for removal and installation). Chair Califf felt that this
estimated quote was potentially in the ballpark.
The Committee Members discussed a possible time period to allow the repairs to be made. Ms.
Cazell asked for a short continuance to review the public records. Chair Califf felt that this
would also give the Committee time to review the documents that Ms. Cazell had just submitted.
Dan Ryan said that the item had already been continued six months, which was the threshold, so
that he would not want the continuance to go on for too long. It was mutually agreed that
November 17, 2004 would work for all parties. Ms. Roseberry stated that the agenda packets for
the Committee Members go out the Thursday prior to the meeting, so if any additional materials
needed to be included for review, they could be incorporated then.
A motion was made by Committee Chair Jon Califf to continue the project to the November 17,
2004 meeting.
SECOND:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
ABSTAINED:
RECUSED:
Donnie Dewees
Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees
None
None
None
Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 6
3. DRC No. 3935-04 - GAMALIEL AND BARTHA VASQUEZ
Proposal to construct two, one-story, single-family residences.
Six remnant and vacant Cal-Trans parcels located adjacent to and east of the Newport 55
Freeway, south of Dana Avenue, and west of Sacramento Street (addressed as: 2220 East
Dana Avenue, and 226, 230, 236, 242, 246 North Sacramento Street)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner
Item Continued from DRC Meeting of August 4, 2004
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Senior Planner Daniel Ryan introduced the item. He noted that the last time the item was before
the Committee, on August 4, 2004, the City's Infill Residential Guidelines, the architectural
style, the number of stories, it's harmony and character as far as the neighborhood fit, and
whether or not the project was compatible with those guidelines. The applicant previously
submitted two single-family homes, both of a 2-story design, and it was a principally single-story
neighborhood. The applicant was asked to look at a one-story design, and also to look at the
character of the homes to be more reflective of the ranch-style that exists in the neighborhood.
What is before the Committee now is a revised project, and he noted there were still issues that
the Planning Commission would need to deal with as far as variance requests for lot size and
setback, etc. The applicant has designed the units to be more in keeping with the neighborhood
style, and it has been reviewed as it relates to the local infill guidelines. Staff still felt that the
massing on two substandard lots was overbuilt in relationship to the site and adjoining
neighborhood. Staff feels the project, as designed, is overbuilt and, as such, does not conform to
the City's Infill Residential Guidelines. The project also does not meet the context for
architectural design (two stories) as opposed to its adjoining neighborhood which is mostly
ranch-style single-story homes.
Chair Califf asked the applicants if they would like to speak.
Aaron Johannsen, 153 S. Cypress Street, represented the applicant. He stated that an attempt
was made to match the existing character of the neighborhood. He referred to photographs of the
surrounding area. He felt the massing was kept to a minimum, as the pitch and depth of the
houses was not excessive. The exposure was a concern when the houses were 2-story in nature
shading in the backyard, etc.). He does not believe that is a problem now. The houses do not
exceed, in massing, any of the houses surrounding the property. He cited the only variance was
for lot size on one lot, and lot size and lot depth on the other lot. All other items are in
compliance.
Committee Member Joe Woollett stated that he felt this was a very difficult site, due to its odd
shape and size, to apply the infill guidelines. The overriding violation is CalTrans building the
wall, in his opinion. Now there is a neighborhood with a problem lot. He believes that the
applicant has responded very well to the items discussed at the last meeting. He has picked up
the design treatment of the surrounding buildings. He believes the neighborhood needs to do
something about this vacant lot. For every rule, he believes, there needs to be an exception, and
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 7
he believes this lot deserves an exception. Because of the size and shape, one building would be
out of character to the neighborhood. He believes this is a good compromise, and supports the
project.
Daniel Ryan reviewed some of the previous submissions by the applicant, noting that one had
been asingle-family residence with an accessory second unit, which he believed was well laid
out, even though the primary residence was atwo-story. Mr. Johansen said that this particular
design did not fit the applicants' needs for his family (being too small at 640 sq. ft.).
Joe Woollett stated that from an aesthetic standpoint, the project meets the spirit of the rule. Any
other issue such as lot size, setback and variance, should be left up to the Planning Commission.
Craig Wheeler stated that he also felt that the aesthetic criteria had been met as far as the Design
Review Committee was concerned. Donnie Dewees agreed with this statement.
Chair Califf reviewed with Daniel Ryan that the Planning Commission would hear the issue of
the parcel map and variance.
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to recommend approval of the project
as submitted.
SECOND: Donnie Dewees
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 8
4. DRC No.3943-04 -SCOTT AND DENISE BOLT
Proposal fora 1,160 sq. ft. second-story addition to a one-story Prairie styled residence
260 S. Shaffer Street (within the Old Towne Orange Historic District)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Committee Member Craig Wheeler recused himself, stating that he was the architect on the
project.
Daniel Ryan, Senior Planning, gave the staff report. Denise Bolt and Scott Bolt, the applicants,
introduced some photos of the interior that they had taken of some of the refurbishment work
they had already undertaken to bring the project back to its original state. Daniel Ryan, in his
report, noted that the second story addition was setback to the existing parapet roofline of the
first story, and is designed in the same style as the existing residence. The applicant was
required to obtain a Conditional Use Permit for a second story addition in Old Towne. He noted
that the Prairie styled residence is a contributing structure within the Historic District, and the
residence and the garage have retained the original features. The neighborhood is evenly divided
between one and two-story residences. There was some discussion as to whether this addition
might be better added to the back, but in reviewing the site plans, Mr. Ryan stated that there did
not appear to be room to do so. It was recommended in the Staff Report that the addition be
constructed in such a fashion that there is the least possible loss of historic materials, and
character-defining features should not be damaged or destroyed. Regarding exterior finish, Mr.
Ryan felt that the existing stucco finish was in poor shape, and that even if the exterior of the
first and second floor were given a new smooth finish it might be recognized as a newer finish
and make it more difficult to recognize what is historical and what is new. However, it would
give an overall appearance of compatible materials. Staff is recommending that the new addition
be set back from the front facade to retain the original building facade with the defining window
elements being incorporated into the new design. The second story addition should be set back
further from the front facade so that its appearance is more reflective as an addition rather than as
part of the original residence. And the applicant should provide a means to make clear what is
historic and what is new. Mr. Ryan complimented the design of the project, but he felt it might
be a bit large based on some of the setbacks for the other second-story Prairie styles.
Scott Bolt stated that they had gathered some samples of stucco finishes, and finding nothing that
matched what they believed would be the original finish, stated that it would probably have to be
a custom finish. Mr. Bolt discussed the positioning of the interior stairwell, noting that it was set
in the interior of the residence as the typical Prairie style homes had been. Any further front
setback of the second story residence further diminishes the width of the upstairs room and
makes it awkward for usable space. Therefore it might be easier to bring in the setbacks on the
sides.
Janet Crenshaw, OTPA, 464 N. Shaffer, stated that she felt this was a good representation of the
city's history.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 9
Jeff Frankel, OTPA, 384 S. Orange Street, said he personally had not seen a 2-story Prairie
configuration, perhaps with more existing in the mid-west. He stated that the OTPA would
prefer to see asingle-story addition, and if a second story was to be approved, then a smaller
second story would be more sympathetic to the original structure would be preferred. He felt it
was difficult to differentiate the old from the new, and stated that it was "too well" designed.
Mr. Bolt asked if a slightly different stucco finish help to differentiate the new from the old, or
would it add confusion. Donnie Dewees stated that was also his question.
Mr. Ryan stated that Staff would like to add that if the applicants did decide to go with a second
story, that the first story of the building be photo-documented for historical inventory purposes,
and would like this to be added as a condition of approval.
Mr. Woollette felt that there would not be too much difficulty in defining that the second story
was an addition, even though it might not be apparent when driving by from the street. He felt
that the overall character of the historic district was the most important issue, not the details of
one of the specific buildings. The consistency of design is what benefits the district. He also felt
that it was correct to change the finish of the existing building so that it was more consistent with
the historic style. Mr. Woollette also stated that, as Mr. Ryan had pointed out, there was a
pattern within the historic district of having larger houses on the corner lots. The fact that the
second story was set back from the front did mitigate the impact without jeopardizing the
consistency of the style.
Jeff Frankel noted that on the plans it indicated completely demolishing the masonry chimney
and replacing it. He felt that the OTPA would be opposed to that. Mr. Bolt stated that for height
requirements they needed to extend the height of the chimney, and since the chimney had a
stucco finish, it could be rebuilt with little overall visual impact. Mr. Frankel felt that the
Secretary of the Interior standards addressed the issue of not removing historic masonry fabric.
Chair Califf asked if the interior would be demolished, and Mr. Bolt stated that it was not his
intention. He wanted to leave the interior intact.
Chair Califf asked a question pertaining to the Spanish Lace stucco finish, would it be more
appropriate to sandblast it? Mr. Bolt said no, that they wanted to take it down to the wood frame,
it needs to be rewired, and they did not want to disturb the interior, take care of plumbing, add
additional outlets, etc. Mr. Califf said he felt there was tremendous difficult in structurally
supporting a footprint that did not line up with any interior walls, and if it did not require losing
the entire ceiling, he would be surprised. Mr. Ryan felt there was more impact on the original
structure with this second-story proposal than there might be with other options.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 10
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to recommend approval of the project
subject to the following conditions:
1. Existing plaster not be removed.
2. Masonry fireplace/firebox be retained unless it is structurally unsound.
3. Provide photo documentation of the existing historical structure prior to any work
commencing.
4. If during structural design development, changes to the architectural design are
necessary, that those changes be brought back before the DRC.
SECOND:Jon Califf
AYES:Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
RECUSED:Craig Wheeler
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 11
5. DRC No. 3945-04 -CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF ORANGE COUNTY (CHOC)
Proposal fora 1,700 space parking structure and site improvements for 200 surface
parking spaces.
Approximately 400 feet south of La Veta Avenue on the east side of Main Street.
Staff Contact: Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Chris Carnes, Senior Planner introduced the item. He noted that the applicant brought back
items to review from comments made at an earlier DRC meeting regarding the proposed parking
structure and pedestrian bridge. The change to the pedestrian bridge was the recommendation by
the DRC that it be positioned straight across the street instead of at an angle. This has been
corrected. A discussion was made about making more prominent the entry features, in terms of
material and scale, and the entry features have been doubled in size (made two story). There was
also review with the landscape architect about adding planting material along the northerly
property line to screen the parking structure. It was determined that due to the requirements for
the sidewalk that they could not add landscaping in that area. The public works staff also
reviewed that the CHOC sign will not be on the bridge, as private signs cannot be put on
structures over public right-of--way. He noted that this would be the DRC's final review prior to
recommendation to the Planning Commission.
Speaking on behalf of CHOC were Phyllis Nelson, Jason Rupp and David Callis. The applicants
noted that they had reviewed the changes and were in concurrence.
Committee Member Donnie Dewees asked what had happened to the cypress trees that had been
proposed in front of the parking structure. It was noted that they were still there, although
grayed out on the proposed plans.
A motion was made by Committee Chair Jon Califf to recommend approval of the project
subject to standard conditions in the Staff Report.
SECOND: Donnie Dewees
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 12
6. DRC No.3949-04 -HERBERT LOVE
No staff report included for this item. Plans will be presented to the DRC at the meeting.)
Proposal for a new one-story, single-family residence and detached two-car garage
Vacant Lot at 491 N. Cypress Street (with the Old Towne Orange Historic District)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner
Item Continued from DRC Meeting of October 6, 2004
DRC Action: Final Determination
The applicant, Franklin Love, noted that at the DRC Meeting of October 6, 2004, the Committee
Members had asked for the following changes: (1) check the egress to ensure that the windows
shown will meet egress requirements, (2) clarify the window trim, (3) specify the texture of the
stucco, (4) specify the roof file (bring sample, if possible, or at least catalogue), (5) specify on
the drawings what the circular vents are, noting that the DRC prefers the plumber to group as
many vents as possible and poke through the roof with as few as possible, as this keeps the roof
clutter down, (6) modify the entry arch on the north side, (7) show the divided ribbon driveway,
and (8) check to see if a constant head height can be maintained for the windows. Daniel Ryan,
Senior Planner reviewed the items with the committee members, and noted that all DRC
suggestions had been followed.
The Committee Members discussed the location of the gate with the fence. Chair Califf noted
that depending on the type of gate, and whether it was open or closed, it would help to extend the
facade. Mr. Ryan noted that the gate was in the style compatible with the period of the house.
Jeff Frankel, OTPA, 384 S. Orange Street, noted that the sill, as it was now presented, looked a
lot nicer as a detail on the structure. He also stated that he remembered from the last meeting
that it was suggested that the ribbon driveway go all the way back to the slab in front of the
garage. The applicant noted that he could do this, and there would be no problem in doing so.
Mr. Frankel also stated that he appreciated the fact that the applicant went the extra mile to
finalize all the details.
Janet Crenshaw, OTPA, 464 N. Shaffer, stated that she still believed that the windows should
line up at the top, as she believes they look like add-ons the way they are presented. Mr. Love
noted that there was a sink on one and a bathtub beneath the other one. Chair Califf noted that it
was actually not that unusual to have them higher on a bathroom window.
A motion was made by Committee Member Craig Wheeler to approve the project subject to the
following conditions:
1. The window trim style be changed to the style with the projecting sill.
2. The ribbon driveway extend past the house to the concrete pad in front of the garage.
3. The gate be pushed back three or four feet, and reflect a style that is compatible with the
house.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 13
SECOND: Jon Califf
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 14
7. DRC No. 3955-04 -BARBARA DANIEL RESIDENCE
Proposal for a new two-car detached garage and the conversion of an existing garage
into an accessory second unit.
317 N. Cleveland Street (within the Old Towne Orange Historic District)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Chair Califf indicated he had a conflict and recused himself.
Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner gave the project overview. He noted that the existing 491 sq. ft.,
two car detached, non contributing, garage was converted to a second living unit without plans or
approval. The city historic building survey identifies the 1922 Bungalow as contributing to the
historic district. The existing 2-car detached garage was constructed in 1995. The project was
approved under DRC No. 3050. The applicant is proposing to construct a new 441 sq. ft.
detached, 2-car, garage behind the existing residence, and establish the former garage/living unit
with a kitchen and bath into a conforming accessory second unit. The existing garage is a mix of
wood and vinyl windows. There would also be one additional parking space added between the
existing residence and the attached new garage.
John Yvon, architect on the project, presented photos and plans showing the existing garage.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that the photos showed that the structure was no longer
being used as a garage.
Jeff Frankel, OTPA, 384 S. Orange Street, stated that he believed that the more appropriate
action would be to keep the existing garage structure and use it as a garage, since the general
pattern of the street is such that the garage is directly at the end of the driveway. That would
allow the applicant to create a living unit where the proposed garage is. Mr. Frankel asked
whether the siding would be wood. Mr. Wheeler stated that it was calling for composite. Mr.
Yvon stated that the existing doors were T1-11, and since the structure is only 10 years old, it is
fairly modern.
Janet Crenshaw, OTPA, 464 N. Shaffer, felt that there was quite a lot of cement to be used on the
property. She asked what type of siding would be used on the new addition, and was told it
would be composite. Ms. Crenshaw felt that it should match whatever material was on the
house, so that it was historical.
Committee Member Woollett questioned why cooking facilities were being added to the existing
secondary structure. Mr. Ryan stated that it was a code issue, and if it were to become a legal
accessory second unit, it would need the facilities. Mr. Woollett echoed the OTPA's comments
that it made more sense to convert it to a garage (because of its placement at the end of the
driveway) and to build the accessory second unit behind the house.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 15
The applicant, Barbara Daniel, stated that her son would be living in the accessory second unit
with his two children. The way that the plans were currently drawn would provide for a more
secluded yard area for the children. Mr. Ryan also stated that if the garage were to be at the end
of the driveway, it would not provide the setbacks necessary for back-up distance, etc.
Additionally the side-yard setbacks would not be met if the proposed new garage structure were
to be a living unit.
Mr. Woollett felt that the garage doors should be the same, for both the new proposed garage and
the accessory second structure that is built to look like a garage. The architect for the project
felt that was easy enough to change and he would make that change.
A motion was made by Committee Member Craig Wheeler to approve the project subject to the
following conditions:
1. The new garage doors match the pseudo garage doors on the existing accessory second
unit.
2. Revise entry roof cover, making it more a gable-style, supported by projected
cantilevered bracketed beams.
3. New windows that are to be added to the existing dwelling be wood instead of vinyl.
4. Provide eating/cooking facilities in living unit.
SECOND:Joe Woollett
AYES:Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
RECUSED:Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 16
8. DRC No. 3959-04 -LINCOLN PROPERTIES (CITY PLACE APARTMENTS)
Proposal fora 275-unit apartment building, of which 10 dwelling units shall include
office space.
Approximately 400 feet south of Chapman Avenue on the west side of The City Drive
presently used by the Doubletree Hotel for surface parking).
Staff Contact: Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Preliminary Review of Plans
Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner introduced the project. He noted that the project was to
include two parking structures, one is by contract to provide parking for the Doubletree
replacement parking, and the other is to be for the apartments. Ten of the units surrounding the
parking structure were designed to be work units, where the bottom floor can be used for
commercial or office purposes, with the living units above. Mr. Carnes noted that this was a
conditional use application as the property is zoned commercial. The project itself is in
compliance with the residential development standards used for high-density multi-family
housing.
Jack Selman, 144 N. Orange Street, the architect for the applicant, described the walkway system
that surrounds the garage, noting that the resident would drive up to the level where they lived
and park there. In some cases there is an open 15' area in between the residence and the garage,
and the area is landscaped with an open walkway. In some cases it is actually an enclosed
walkway opening up onto landscaping. Mr. Selman noted that the project was a classic
contemporary which fit into the design of the surrounding structures.
Chair Califf asked what sort of work uses were expected in the live/work units that are proposed.
The applicant stated that a good example might be professional or creative uses, i.e., interior
designers, landscape architects, architects, attorneys, insurance agents or computer technicians,
etc. The signage, if at all, would be small professional type signage as opposed to what you
would normally see for commercial retail space. Mr. Wheeler asked if there would be any
zoning restriction on retail, and Mr. Carnes replied that it is being set up with the appropriate
parking (5 per thousand) for retail, it is just not anticipated to be such.
Committee Member Woollett asked if the project had been reviewed by the fire department. Mr.
Selman stated that is had, and showed the fire department access plan that had been developed to
satisfy those requirements.
Committee Member Wheeler noted that on the hotel garage parking it appeared that someone
could actually get from the parking area (through the railings) into the hallways of the apartment.
He wondered if that was correct or even a problem? Mr. Selman noted that the plans might be a
bit confusing, there would be fencing on the lower level. He felt that someone might be able to
climb over the rail on the upper level, so they would review that area and make it secure.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 17
Mr. Wheeler noted that he was concerned because the materials used on the garages (concrete
masonry) were different than those used on the residences, and it seemed to make it more
foreign. He suggested that even if the material were concrete masonry, it might be better if it
were to have stucco over it. Mr. Selman felt that it might not be a bad idea, and there were
several walls where that might be particularly appropriate. He felt that the plans were not
detailed to that level yet, but that it might be more appropriate.
Mr. Selman stated that they would be providing the DRC members with a full color elevation, to
make it more clear for them to understand the different colors, etc. He stated that they would be
providing exact colors, in addition to the color renderings.
The committee members offered the following suggestions/conditions:
Color needs to be defined
If textural changes are noted, they need to be clearly identified
Provide additional detail to work/live area in order to make it more special in
terms of colors, landscaping, materials, etc.
Provide additional clarity on some of the parking structure surfaces.
Preliminary Review of Plans - No Action Taken
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 20, 2004
Page 18
A motion was made by Committee Member Craig Wheeler to adjourn the meeting.
SECOND: Donnie Dewees
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
The meeting adjourned at 9:15 p.m.
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