09-15-2004 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES
September 15, 2004
Committee Members Present: Jon Califf
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Donnie Dewees
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Dan Ryan, Senior Historic Planner
Howard Morris, Landscape Assessment/District Coordinator
Committee Member Absent: None
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an administrative session beginning at 5:00 p.m. The meeting adjourned
at 7:15 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
A motion was made by Committee Member Craig Wheeler to approve the September 1, 2004
minutes as submitted.
SECOND: Donnie Dewees
AYES: Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2004
Page 2
1 DRC No. 3842-03 -SOUTH MAIN PROFESSIONAL BUILDING - POMEROY III
Relocation of 1927 Gas Station Building and construction of new office building (see
next DRC Item for relocation site at 887 N. Glassell Street).
350 S. Main Street
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
The item was introduced by Senior Planner Daniel Ryan. He explained that the item was a
parcel of land at the southeast corner of Main Street and Palmyra. The property currently has
1,414 sq. ft. of service buildings and an existing 98 sq. ft. 1927 Provencial Styled gas station.
The applicant is proposing to demolish the 1400 sq. ft. service building and relocate and
rehabilitate the gas station, and build a 4,142 sq. ft. professional office building. The new
building will serve the local medical community and be designed in a modern style to fit the site
and to be compatible with other medical offices in the vicinity. The site will also include parking
for 26 cars, and bicycle and motorcycle racks. The applicant has requested an administrative
adjustment to reduce the front and side setbacks as noted on the plan. The landscaping plan was
also attached for the presentation. The proposal is to have the Design Review Committee make a
recommendation to the Planning Commission to relocate the historic gas station to another
project site that the applicant is also designing at Glassell and Collins. These two projects are
being reviewed together and will go forward through the process to the Planning Commission for
review of the environmental documents and relocation of the buildings. The gas station is listed
as eligible for the National Historic Register and it is one of the few remaining 1920s gas stations
in the County of Orange. The property owners have looked for a suitable site within the Old
Towne Historic District for the last couple of years, and having been unable to find a suitable
site, have decided to relocate it to their other property at Glassell and Collins. Mr. Ryan also
noted that the maximum height for the proposed new medical building is 32 feet, and the parapet
height on the equipment is 34 feet. This was incorporated into the administrative adjustment, but
if the applicant can lower the parapet height by two feet, this will be unnecessary. The applicant
has also been asked to provide lighting details and photo metrics for the project for approval,
which will also be required by the Planning Commission.
Leason Pomeroy, III, architect, gave a summary of the project. He noted that the site was
extremely small, and that the style of architecture was designed to be very clean and simple.
Because of the many city improvements required to develop this site (signals, etc.) combined
with the relatively small size of the lot, there was an enormous effort to get the maximum yield
from the office buildings to make the site economically viable. He mentioned that this site, in
addition to the other two, were in vast need of improvements (citing weeds, decaying buildings,
etc.) He stated that there would be no problem with dealing with lowering the equipment
enclosure's parapet by two feet (as previously mentioned by Daniel Ryan). He described the
smooth plaster finish on the outside of the building.
Committee Chair Jon Califf invited comments from the public.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2004
Page 3
Janet Crenshaw, OTPA, stated that she was more concerned about what would happen to the gas
station once it was relocated. She stated that she would reserve her comments until that item
came forward.
Mr. Pomeroy brought several images to show the direction of the project. Chair Califf said that
one of the questions on all of the plans was when the architect stated "smooth" on the finish, is
that smooth sand finish or hard trowel, because obviously the cracking of the stucco would be a
real concern. Mr. Pomeroy stated it would be smooth troweled, and they were also concerned
about the cracking and would make the necessary adjustments to alleviate that. The committee
members asked about the composition, and Mr. Pomeroy stated it was shear wall, paper, wire
and 3-coat exterior over wood studs. Chair Califf stated that obviously because of the finish, any
breaks in the plaster would become design elements, and Mr. Pomeroy stated that there would be
no reveals, that there would only be the slightest element of a connection between the plaster
areas. The color of the plaster was also questioned, and Mr. Pomeroy stated it would be colored a
dark grey. He explained that the color palette contained a yellowish wood, a greenish glass, and
the darker plaster color. The idea of the design is to make it look rich. Committee Member
Craig Wheeler questioned whether there were any issues with the exposed stairway. Mr.
Pomeroy stated that there was, the police department had noted this. He didn't believe there was
any security issue in terms of getting into the building, the police (he believes) were more
concerned about people going up there and sleeping on the second floor. Mr. Wheeler asked
whether some sort of gate could be put across the bottom. Mr. Pomeroy felt that if you did, you
would lose the design element and there could still be access if someone really wanted to get to
the second floor anyway. The office space and restrooms have been gated off, the building is
fairly well lit, and that is one way to help eliminate it.
Committee Member Joe Woollett felt that there was not quite enough information on the
landscaping, noting that it was the preliminary landscape plan. Howard Morns, Landscape
Coordinator, suggested adding several trees because the landscape was rather sparse, and he
suggested tightening up the space between the ground cover plants. He also suggested that the
Tasmanian tree ferns would grow too large, and the area where they were to be planted would be
too hot, so those should be changed. Mr. Pomeroy reconfirmed that the final landscape plans
should be submitted when the working drawings were submitted.
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to approve the project with the
following conditions:
1. Modifications should be made to the landscaping as discussed prior to review by the
Planning Commission.
2. Provide lighting details, fixtures and photo metrics prior to review by the Planning
Commission.
Final review of these items should be made after review by the Planning Commission.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2004
Page 4
SECOND: Jon Califf
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2004
Page 5
2. DRC No. 3936-04 RETAIL CENTER - LEASON POMEROY III
Development of new Retail Center including move-on of gas station building
887 N. Glassell Street, SEC of Glassell Street and Collins Avenue
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Senior Planner Daniel Ryan introduced this item. He noted that this was a C-1 limited business
district zone. The proposed development is one-story infill retail development including
relocation of the Provincial Style 1927 gas station building from 305 S. Main Street. The
proposed project includes the construction of a 2, 187 sq. ft. retail center on a vacant lot. The
proposed site would be bisected by the drive aisle from the driveways (one on Glassell, one on
Collins). The gas station building with two arched canopied roofs would be located at the front
corner. Anew triangular shaped retail building will be set on the rear property lines. Ten
parking spaces will be provided (8 spaces in front of the new retail center, and two covered
spaces under the arched roof of the gas station). At the northeast corner of the building will be a
loading area and trash enclosure. Handicapped, bike and motorcycle parking will be provided on
the site. Pedestrian walkways, trees/landscaping treatment and lighting are provided. In
addition, the setback on the Glassell side was an additional 5' because of the residential zone
adjacent to it. Additionally, the dedication for street site improvements took quite a lot of the
available building area from the site. The project has been through quite a lengthy staff review,
and the end project is a bit smaller and some administrative adjustments were needed to deal
with the parking and drive aisle lengths, landscape setbacks, etc., to avoid doing a variance. It
took an extreme amount of work to not only meet all the requirements, but at the same time
relocate the gas station building on the corner and integrate it into this site. The gas station
building will have its existing canopies, posts and other elements removed in preparation for the
move. The gas station building will ultimately (on the new site) be repaired and items replaced to
match the existing elements including wood shutters, windows and any structural elements. The
building will have an earth-tone composition roof and matching smooth plaster finishes to the
retail building. The placement of the gas station is intended to be an historic centerpiece and add
interest to the site. The limited height of the gas station will not obscure the view of the retail
building as seen from the street. Complementary materials, finishes and wood trim will
additionally unify the two buildings. The landscape plan is also attached. Staff is
recommending that the design review committee approve the project as a recommendation to the
Planning Commission.
Leason Pomeroy, III, architect, noted that they had worked with the planning department staff
for over a year until the idea came together to move the gas station to this site, which became the
catalyst to make both this project and the previous project (3842-03) work. Setting it up on the
corner of this property kind of makes it a gateway as you come down the corridor on Glassell
into Old Towne. Mr. Pomeroy showed a small model of the project so that the DRC Members
could get an idea of the scale of the project. He noted that the gas station building is in
incredibly bad shape, and would require extensive rework by preserving the roof and reframing
the entire building.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2004
Page 6
Janet Crenshaw, OTPA, stated that she was happy with the move of the building and suggested
that she knew someone who might want to use it as a retail space. She also felt that it was a
good use of the placement of the building to have it at the site as a sort of entrance to Old Towne.
Jeff Frankel, OTPA, stated that he had driven by the building numerous times and did not
recognize it as a gas station. The applicants stated that they were negotiating with someone to
possibly buy the original Mobile signs, as they wanted the building to remain looking like a gas
station no matter what retail establishment eventually leases it. Mr. Frankel stated that he was
pleased with the move to this location and the rehabilitation of the building.
Chair Califf expressed concern about the south sun's effect on the reflection from the roof onto
the neighboring property, and being on the property line, there would be no opportunity to
provide any landscape relief. Mr. Pomeroy noted that the proposed new building and the
adjacent neighboring buildings were almost the same height, so that would mitigate the
reflection.
Relative to the color of the new buildings, Committee Member Wheeler stated that his
preference would be to not have the new building and the gas station have the same color
scheme, but rather to have a contrasting color palette. Ideally, perhaps it could recall the color
scheme of the original gas station building. Mr. Pomeroy stated that he would look into this.
Landscape Coordinator Howard Morris suggested being careful about the landscaping along the
sidewalk areas as they tend to get stepped on. He suggested possibly using Rhaphiolipus Clara,
which would provide a mounding effect. It was decided the Staff would review the Final
Landscape Plan, and no Conditions of Approval were added to this project.
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to approve the project.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2004
Page 7
3. DRC No. 3889-04 -PALM CENTER REPLACEMENT BUILDING
Proposal to construct a 5,945 square foot commercial building.
970 North Tustin Street
Staff Contact: Kim Chaffin, Associate Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
An overview of the project was given by Kim Chaffin, Associate Planner. She noted that the
applicant was proposing a building that would house two commercial tenants, one being a bank,
and the other tenant has not been identified as yet. The building, as proposed, is 5,945 sq. ft.,
and is to be built up against the existing building (the former building on this site had an alley
between it and the adjacent building that was seen as a potential problem by the police and fire
departments). Because the new building will abut the existing buildings, it will mimic,
somewhat, the design of the columns, etc. She noted that the massing, material palette and the
textures were consistent with the surrounding buildings. The roof-mounted equipment will be
screened by the parapet walls. The police department noted, and City Planning Staff concurred,
to recommend deletion of the Queen Palm in front of the area where the ATM would be located
for security purposes. Staff also recommended that bollards be placed in the wide area which is
the handicap access point so as to avoid problems with people trying to park there, etc., and is
strictly kept for pedestrian use. Staff also recommends removing the existing sign on the
property (from the former establishment), which does not comply with the City's sign ordinance
and is a code violation. Klaus Barre the architect was in attendance to answer questions by the
DRC members. Mr. Barre wanted to note that the owner of the property had owned the property
for over 30 years and believes that he has documentation that will allow him to grandfather the
existing sign for the new building. Other than this issue, they were in concurrence with the
staff's conditions of approval. Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager, spoke to the signage
issue and stated that if the sign was deemed to the "legal non-conforming" then only the face of
the sign could be changed, not the shape or the height.
Committee Member Joe Woollette stated that after review of the drawings, it was not clear to
him how the new building related to the existing buildings on the south side (there is an arcade
that runs the length of the existing building and the new building is actually set back from there).
Mr. Barre stated that because of the position of the driveway, the new facility must be positioned
for pedestrian access and provide a welcoming and significant entry to the property. He noted
that because of the grade difference between the two areas, the transition would include a
stairway of approximately three risers. Asked if there would be a gap between the two buildings,
he stated that there would be an approximately 6-inch gap.
Committee Member Craig Wheeler stated that his biggest concern was that it was close to an
addition to the existing building in form, but it's different, it's adding a new element that doesn't
occur already in the design, getting more into eclectic forms rather than the relatively simple
forms of the existing buildings. Adding in the cornices and the round columns, etc., is going to
make the building stand out as being contrary to what else is there. He said that were it up to
him, he'd try to use something more of the vocabulary of the building that it was being attached
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2004
Page 8
to, and not adding the different design elements. It was noted that the cornices were foam
extrusions, and the columns were pre-cast concrete (round in shape). Craig Wheeler asked, "So
some of the columns are round, some are square?" The answer was yes. The glass color is noted
as being a dark bronze, with anodized aluminum frames.
Committee Member Donnie Dewees stated that he agreed with the earlier committee member
comments, that the new structure had elements that made it different from the simplified form of
the adjacent existing buildings. Mr. Wheeler felt that by removing the cornices it would bring it
more into the look of what is currently there, and clean up the design a bit. Chair Califf felt that
it was critical to see the joint where the buildings were connected, and it would be helpful to see
at least the corner of the existing building and how it relates to the new building. How that
works together is important, because, in a sense it "reads" like an addition. Perhaps the six inch
separation needs to be more, or perhaps the way the other building terminates needs to be studied
a bit more. The drawings don't clearly articulate this. Mr. Woollett stated that the DRC had
been consistent in advising how additions were made in shopping centers and industrial centers,
where their concern had been maintaining the continuity of character. It doesn't have to be the
same, but you can't just ignore the existing buildings; their design must be taken into
consideration. The new building must consciously acknowledge the other building. Mr.
Wheeler stated that as far as he could tell, the other building wasn't acknowledge in design at all,
and he would insist on seeing that (how the buildings relate). How it joins is very important,
there are different heights, different in-and-outs, multiple columns of differing heights and sizes
and scales, and the colors aren't the same. Mr. Woollett felt that the design as it existed was
unacceptable. He reiterated that it needed to relate to the other building. Mr. Barre, for clarity,
asked if Mr. Woollett believed that the column treatment, alone, was sufficient to relate the
buildings -and Mr. Woollette stated no. Mr. Wheeler stated that the heights needed to be the
same or significantly different -right now they were almost too close in height, but still not the
same.
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to continue the project. Chair Califf
asked the applicant if he felt there was sufficient direction to guide him, and Mr. Barre felt there
was. Kim Chaffin summarized: (1) deletion of the cornices, (2) the need to see how the building
relates to the existing building, and how it connects with the existing building, (3) how the
walking path works, (4) how the colors relate, and (5) heights should be significantly different or
the same height. Mr. Woollette also stated to Mr. Barre that the DRC was not trying to be the
architect of the building, but there needed to be some rationale as to how the buildings related to
one another, and it needed to be done graphically.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2004
Page 9
DRC No. 3939-04 -TURNER FACADE REMODEL
Proposal to remodel an existing non-contributing commercial facade in the Plaza.
119 S. Glassell Street, (Old Towne Orange Historic District)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner Historic Preservation
Item continued from DRC Meeting of 09/01/04 due to lack of a quorum.
DRC Action: Final Determination
The project overview was given by Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner Historic Preservation.
Committee Members Woollett and Wheeler recused themselves from the discussion. Mr. Ryan
noted that there was originally one storefront design submitted, but that they had submitted two
additional designs at this meeting. All of the three proposals are the same as to the second story
changes and awnings; the only variation is the first floor window and bulkhead design. Because
of a fire to the structure some time ago, the original materials are no longer there.
Susan Secoy, the architect on the project, introduced herself and Cheryl Turner, the applicant and
owner of the building (along with Gary Turner, her husband). Ms. Secoy stated that they had
submitted two additional designs, because after speaking with staff and Mr. Ryan they
understood that the first design might not have been quite as sympathetic to the designs resident
in the other buildings on South Glassell as far as the streetscape, as well as the rest of Old
Towne. She invited an open discussion with the DRC as to what would be the most appropriate
design. The Turner's stated that their goal was to make the building more open and accessible,
as the old design was dark and non-welcoming. Bringing the design out more onto the
streetscape would accomplish this they felt.
Chair Califf invited the public to comment.
Janet Crenshaw, OTPA, stated that she like the third plan, where the building slanted in (as Old
Orange Photography did).
Jeff Frankel also liked proposed storefront plan number three, as the square windows follow the
pattern of the block where the building is located, because he didn't recall too many arched
windows in the district (as shown on the first plan). Ms. Turner mentioned that they would also
take the first plan and square off the windows.
A motion was made by Committee Member Donnie Dewees to approve Version #2 with straight
windows including the following conditions:
1. Applicant pay attention to brick pattern in front so that it relates to the bay.
2. Actual building materials be called out on documentation.
SECOND: Jon Califf
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for September 15, 2004
Page 10
ABSTAINED: Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED
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