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07-11-2001 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES for Wednesday, July 11, 2001 Committee Members Present: Alice Angus Leonard Filner (Vice Chair) Mark Paone Susan Secoy Joe Woollett (Chair) Arrived at approx. 7:30 pm) Staff in Attendance: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner Howard Morris, Landscape Coordinator Dave Statton, Landscape Coordinator Committee Member Absent: None Administrative Session - 4:30 P.M. The committee met for an administrative session beginning at 4:30 p.m. The meeting adjourned at approximately 10:05 p.m. Regular Session - 5:30 PM REVIEW OF MINUTES: The review and approval of the June 6, 2001 and June 20, 2001 minutes was deferred until the July 25, 2001 meeting. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 2 DRC No. 3647 -JOANNA KONDRATH New 693 sq. ft. addition to include a family room, office, bedroom and bathroom, and the addition of a 100 sq. ft. porch at the rear of an existing residence In Old Towne. 336 S. Shaffer Street (Contributing Structure) Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation DRC Action: Final Determination Continued from 06/20/01 meeting) The project was presented by Joanna Kondrath (owner) and her contractor David Koenig. The plans have been modified to address the concerns that were raised at the previous meeting. The project was opened for public comments: Jeff Frankel remembered that at the last meeting, there was a requirement for samples of the exterior siding and brick material. David Konig replied that he has a sample of the brick, which is a firebrick veneer that was recommended by City Planning staff (Daniel Ryan). The exterior siding would be made of cedar wood milled to have the same profile as the existing. These are shown as Detail "E" on the submitted plans. Jeff Frankel thinks that the existing siding is made of redwood and not cedar as indicated by the applicant. The siding on his house is made of cedar. David Koenig replied that he had pulled a piece of the existing siding off to show the lumber company and was told that it was cedar. Robert Imboden, representing OTPA asked if all the items that were listed on the project summary report have been adhered to. He noticed that the submitted plans are not drawn to scale, and that it still lacks information for a complete evaluation by the DRC. Also, the plans show a change in roof pitch, which is something that the standards discourage. Janet Crenshaw asked what is the floor area ratio because the project seems fairly dense. Jeff Frankel asked why does new windows have a higher sill height than the existing windows. David Koenig stated that the project has a 0.33 F.A.R. The plans have been modified per the items that were discussed with the DRC from the previous meeting. The rear porch railings have been changed to square shaped 2 by 2s at 4 inches on center. The chimney has been widened to look more traditional. Windows are wood double hung with a similar profile to match the existing. The floor plans have been changed to create a line of demarcation to delineate the new addition from the existing historic house. The new roof pitch is slightly different from the existing because there is three ridge heights that would make the roof appear very complex with multiple gables. As stated before from the previous meeting, the windows are raised to accommodate the use of dresser-type furniture on the interior. Committee Member Mark Paone stated that it is difficult to follow the logic of how the drawings are referenced on the plans. He is frustrated with not fully understanding the project. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 3 DRC No. 3647 -JOANNA KONDRATH (Continued) Committee Member Susan Secoy feels that she needs a little more information before she can render a final decision on the project. She is not opposed to the project at all, but the DRC has run into situations where a project was not well documented. Consequently the project was built incorrectly, and the DRC had no recourse. The DRC discussed with the applicant in further detail each item that was listed on staff's project summary report. Mr. Koenig was asked to clarify each detail that was indicated on the plans, and to show samples of the exterior finish materials and color palette. Committee Chair Joe Woollett stated that he believes that the pertinent information is all there. Although he is still not comfortable with the roof pitch as discussed earlier, but it can be worked OUt. David Koenig stated that the issue with the roof pitch could easily be resolved by lowering one wall on the side to compensate for matching the roof pitch. Committee Member Alice Angus agreed that new roof should have the same pitch to match the existing. In regards to the details on the plans, there seems to be enough information for staff to adequately enforce what the DRC is trying to obtain. MOTION was made by Committee Member Susan Secoy to approve the project, subject to the following conditions: 1. The new roof shall match the pitch on the existing roof by lowering the plate height along the side wall. 2. Exterior wood siding material to match existing and to be reviewed and approved by City Historic Preservation staff. 3. All exterior trims and details shall match existing, both in size and material, and that no deviations be allowed. 4. Rear porch railing to be made of 2 by 2's, spaced at 4 inches clear for compliance with minimum U.B.C. requirements. The approval is based on the finding that the proposed work conforms to the standards and design criteria referenced and recommended by the Design Review Committee. The proposed work complies with the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and Guidelines. The proposed work is compatible with, and therefore will not adversely affect the use and design of existing buildings within Old Towne. SECOND: Alice Angus AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 4 2. DRC No. 3648 - CONWAY TRANSPORTATION SERVICE Expansion of an existing trucking terminal facility to include the addition of 13,800 sq. ft. of new building area, and the removal of 6,380 sq. ft. of existing building area. 2102 N. Batavia Street Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission Approved as Consent Item) MOTION was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to recommend approval of the project as submitted to the Planning Commission. SECOND:Susan Secoy AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy Joe Woollett NOES:None ABSENT:None ABSTAINED:None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 5 3. DRC No. 3651 - LEROY ALLEN New single story residence with a new detached garage, and relocation and modification of an existing detached garage as part of a proposed lot split in Old Towne. Northwest corner of Maple Avenue and Harwood Street) 633 E. Maple Avenue (Contributing Structure) Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation DRC Action: Final Determination The project was presented by Jack McGee -Consultant, and Richard Anderson -Architect. The proposal is to subdivide an existing 11,976 sq.ft. property into 2 separate lots, located at the northwest corner of Maple Avenue and Harwood Street. The proposal is to construct a new single-family residence on the vacant lot with a new detached garage. The existing property has a 1909 Craftsman Bungalow with a detached garage that faces Harwood Street. The proposal also includes relocating the existing garage to the back corner of the existing lot to facilitate the proposed subdivision. The plans have been modified to incorporate some design changes that were suggested by City staff and the Old Towne Preservation Association. The new house is a prefabricated modular unit that is moved onto the site and assembled on a raised foundation. Exterior siding is made of fiber-cement (Hardi-Plank) from James Hardie. Windows are made of vinyl with a similar profile to wood. The meeting was opened for public comments: Jeff Frankel would like to know what material is being used at the base of the front porch. Richard Anderson presented actual samples of a manufactured light-weight stone. Jeff Frankel stated that this material would be inconsistent because he has not seen the use of this particular stone material elsewhere within the district. Robert Imboden commended the applicant for meeting with people in the community to address their concerns prior to presenting the project to the DRC. He also shares the same concern with the use of this stone material that has never been used on a craftsman style home. He would like to know what siding material is being used, and how high will the siding start from the finish grade. He prefers to see the foundation a little higher. Committee Member Mark Paone stated that he does not have a problem with the concept, but it's how the project is being executed that he has a concern with. He would like to see more details on how the structure is tied to the foundation, and he also agrees that the proposed use of the flag stone material is inappropriate for this type of design. He is also concerned with how the modules are assembled (how is the siding applied, are will there be seam lines?). He would like to see material samples of the exterior siding and roofing. Committee Member Susan Secoy complimented the applicants for their efforts in working with the City staff and community groups to refine this project. Although she agrees with the previous comment regarding the use of the stone material not being appropriate for this particular style of architecture. The project is moving in the right direction, but there are still certain items that need to be resolved. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 6 3. DRC No. 3651 - LEROY ALLEN (Continued) Richard Anderson stated that if there are issues with the use of stones, the owner would be agreeable to the use of beveled siding instead. Committee Member Mark Paone prefers the use of some type of masonry element that is more consistent to the period. Richard Anderson stated that the owner should have no issues with the use of masonry at the front porch. Committee Member Mark Paone also expressed concerns with the use of a hip roof along only one side for each of the garages. This seems rather inconsistent with the rest of the project, which has gables. Although he understands that the purpose of using the hips is due to zoning code setback requirements, he would still rather see gables on both ends. Jack McGee replied that one alternative would to be to apply for some type of variance/adjustment process to allow for the deviation in code requirements. Committee Member Alice Angus noticed that the new garage is over-sized, and is setback more than 20 ft. from the front (east) property line. Perhaps the new garage can be reduced in size, and shifted forward to within the minimum 20 ft. front yard setback. She also prefers the use of gable rather a hip roof for the garages. MOTION was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to continue the project based on the above discussion. SECOND: Alice Angus AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 7 4. DRC No. 3652 -PAUL & DENISE HAMILTON New 970 sq. ft. addition to include a bedroom, bathroom, closet, and basement at the rear of an existing residence In Old Towne. 212 N. Waverly Street (Non-Contributing Structure) Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation DRC Action: Final Determination Approved as Consent Item) MOTION was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to approve the project as submitted. The approval is based on the finding that the proposed work conforms to the standards and design criteria referenced and recommended by the Design Review Committee. The proposed work complies with the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and Guidelines. The proposed work is compatible with, and therefore will not adversely affect the use and design of existing buildings within Old Towne. SECOND AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 8 5. DRC No. 3654 -ORANGE HILLS ASSEMBLY New freestanding sign for a church. 2910 Santiago Boulevard Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner DRC Action: Final Determination The project was presented by Rick Denman with Signs & Services Company. The proposal is to construct a new freestanding sign to identify an existing church facility. The sign is internally illuminated, has a sign face area of approximately 37 sq.ft., and is 8'-9" in overall height. Committee Member Mark Paone asked the applicant if there was a particular reason for choosing the purple color used on the sign face. Rick Denman presented a material sample and color board to show that the use of the purple color was to match the color of the roof of the church building. MOTION was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to approve the project as submitted. SECOND: Susan Secoy AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 9 6. DRC No. 3657 -CALIFORNIA NATIONAL BANK New replacement wall signs for an existing bank building in Old Towne. 216 E. Chapman Avenue (Non-Contributing Structure) Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation DRC Action: Final Determination Approved as Consent Item) MOTION was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to approve the project as submitted. SECOND: Alice Angus AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 10 Planning Commission/Design Review Committee Joint Study Session 6:30 PM 7. DRC No. 3634 - ST. JOHN'S LUTHERAN CHURCH Review of a new 2-story, 55,500 sq.ft. classroom/fellowship building, expansion of the existing preschool building, and new signage program as part of a larger proposed Master Plan for the Saint John's Lutheran Church and School Campus. Site is located within the Old Towne Historic District, bounded by Shaffer Street on the east, Center Street on the west, Almond Avenue on the south, and Chapman Avenue on the north. Staff Contact: Anna Pehoushek, Senior Planner DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission The project was presented by Darrel Hebenstreit with Architects Orange, who gave a brief overview and design evolution of the project. The project has been further refined in response to the comments that were gathered from the numerous meetings and study sessions with various groups that are involved with this project. The project has been scheduled for public hearing with the Planning Commission on August 6, 2001. St. John's Lutheran Church is now ready for an action (recommendation to Planning Commission) to be taken by the DRC. The project proposal consists of the Chapman Classroom Building, the Preschool Building, and the signage Program. Chapman Classroom Building Committee Chair Joe Woollett asked if there were any thoughts given on providing some type of sun protection along the south and west building elevations. Darrel Hebenstreit stated that blinds would be installed on the interior because the building is setback only 5 ft. from the property line and that most of the west elevation would be hidden behind existing buildings and mature trees. Perhaps some type of metal eyebrow element could be added over the windows for visual interest. The project was opened for public comments: Janet Crenshaw (464 N. Shaffer Street) asked for clarification of what appears like large doors along the backside (west) of the classroom building. Darrel Hebenstreit explained that these are recessed openings for the building. Committee Chair Joe Woollett appreciates the architect's effort in going through the process of evolution in design. The changes are significant, and as a result we have a highly refined project. Committee Member Mark Paone concurred that this is a fine project. He understands that it has been a difficult process in having to respond to the various groups of people that are involved. This is definitely a better end result than where it had started. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 11 7. DRC No. 3634 - ST. JOHN'S LUTHERAN CHURCH (Continued) Committee Member Leonard Filner asked how much of the existing vegetation is being affect, and has a landscape plan been prepared with this project. Darrel Hebenstreit stated that the site does not contain any significant landscaping that is worthwhile saving, except for the mature palm trees at the front driveway that will remain. A landscape plan will be developed and submitted to the DRC for approval at a later date. Committee Member Alice Angus was also pleased with the design, particularly with how the trellis/pergola are used to help soften the building in the transition towards the adjacent Ainsworth house. The corner element is strong enough without being too strong, and there is integration architecturally with the rest of the campus. The applicant has responded well to the comments that have been received during the review process. Committee Susan Secoy agreed and further suggested that some type of metal canopy could be added over the windows along the courtyard (west) elevation to create some shade and shadow, and to add interest to the building. Planning Commission Chair Teresa Smith was surprise and somewhat disappointed that there isn't more of a historic element to the project. She is always concerned with the precedent that it would set for the rest of Old Towne. She realized that the applicant has already gone through a lengthy process in order reach this point, but she feels that some of the elements that were reproduced from Walker Hall shown on the earlier designs may be more appropriate. She referenced the Old Towne Design Standards, which states that projects should emulate design elements between 1890 and 1940. Although the project contains some historic elements, it appears rather contemporary. She is also concerned with the flat surfaces of the west elevation and the reflection from the sun. Perhaps some additional brick facing would help to enhance that side of the building. Robert Chattel -Historic Consultant, stated that the current proposal is clearly subordinate to the character of Walker Hall. The more literal referencing of Walker Hall, in some ways make a stronger statement, but not as strong as a statement that is more unified, cohesive whole, generally more subordinate, and draws from all the material references. Randy Bosch -President of St. John's Lutheran Church, stated that we should not replicate such an iconic historic building, but rather incorporate its key features in style and material to create an entirely new building that is distinctive by itself. Committee Chair Joe Woollett stated that we have to acknowledge that we are building in the present and at the same time, honor and respect the past. He is very please with what the applicant has accomplished throughout this whole design review process. Committee Member Susan Secoy concurred that we do not want to see a multitude of replicas throughout Old Towne. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 12 7. DRC No. 3634 - ST. JOHN'S LUTHERAN CHURCH (Continued) Planning Commission Chair Teresa Smith stated that it is unfortunate that the rest of the Planning Commissioners cannot be here tonight to give their inputs on the project. She suggested that another joint study session be held with the Design Review Committee and the rest of the Planning Commissioners, prior to the scheduled public hearing on August 6, 2001. Preschool Buildin Darrel Hebenstreit explained that the proposal is to demolish the existing non-contributing stucco building (151 S. Center St.), and expand the existing contributing Craftsman style building (141 S. Center Street) to create a new larger 5,750 sq.ft. preschool facility. Planning Commission Chair Teresa Smith noted that the rear flat roof picks up the horizontal elements of the adjacent Prairie style Music Conservancy building. Committee Member Mark Paone agreed with the building's relation to the Music Conservancy, although he is concerned with how the parapet terminates with the trellis structure in front of it. He would like to see more refinement of the rear building elevation. He also feels that it would be a good idea to have another study session, so that the rest of the Planning Commissioners can better understand how this project has evolved through the different design stages. Signage Program Darrel Hebenstreit explained that two (2) monument signs are proposed, one along Chapman Avenue and the other along Shaffer Street. Both signs are externally illuminated with ground mounted incandescent lighting. The signs are shown at 5'-4" high, but planning staff has suggested to lowering it to 4'-4". He felt strongly that this scale of element is important with the building and also important with the fabric of the street. The sign face material has not yet been determined at this time. Committee Member Mark Paone stated that he does not have any problems with the height of the sign given its context, but there are concerns with its placement particularly in terms of pedestrian safety. MOTION was made Committee Member Mark Paone to recommend approval of the project to the Planning Commission, subject to the following conditions: 1. Submit landscape plans to Design Review Committee for review and approval. 2. Submit revised rear (east) elevation plans of the preschool building to Design Review Committee for final review and approval. 3. Explore the possibility of adding a sunshade canopy element over the window openings along the south and west elevations of the Chapman building. 4. The freestanding sign along Chapman Avenue is approved as submitted (including removal of the sphere element on top of the columns). City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 13 7. DRC No. 3634 - ST. JOHN'S LUTHERAN CHURCH (Continued) 5. The freestanding sign along Shaffer Street shall be further studied for possible relocation and/or re-design, and shall be submitted back to the Design Review Committee for review and approval. The recommendation for approval is based on the finding that the proposed work conforms to the standards and design criteria referenced and recommended by the Design Review Committee. The proposed work complies with the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and Guidelines. The proposed work is compatible with, and therefore will not adversely affect the use and design of existing buildings within Old Towne. SECOND:Alice Angus AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard NOES:None ABSENT:None ABSTAINED:None Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 14 8. DRC No. 3641 - BRANDYWINE DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION Introduction to Tentative Tract Map 16218 for a Planned Unit Development with 21 single-family detached dwelling units. 1740 Bolingridge Drive Staff Contact: Anna Pehoushek, Senior Planner No action required -Informational item only) Jim Barisic with Brandywine Development Corp. and his consultant Robert Mickelson presented the project. The proposal consists of a 21-lot single family planned unit development on a 5.36 acre site known as the Bolinger Estate. The new houses are 2-story in design, ranging between 3,188 sq.ft. to 3,668 sq.ft. in size. One of the primary issues of this site is the existing vegetation. A licensed arborist has been retained to help save as many of the existing mature specimen trees as possible. Another concern is traffic safety. A traffic analysis has been prepared to address any potential impact that this development may have on the surrounding area. The site plan is laid out in such a way as to minimize the amount of grading that would have been required if it was subdivided in a more traditional manner. It was felt that the proposed planned unit development had many advantages over the more traditional subdivision, mainly due to the constraints of the site's sloping topography. The development is provided with one major access point off Sunview Drive, with a secondary access for refuse pick-up off Hillview Drive, and an emergency access for Fire and Police Departments off Bolingridge Drive. Perimeter fencing is comprised of mostly tubular steel fencing, with selected sections of masonry block for privacy reasons. They have also met with the surrounding neighbors to discuss the project and to address any concerns that they may have. The purpose of tonight's study session is primarily to gain feedback from the DRC regarding the site layout and design of the project, and its relationship to the surrounding neighborhood. The meeting was opened for public comments: Charles Rupp (1802 E. Sunview Drive) is concerned with the traffic on such a narrow street and the potential for cars to stack out at the main entrance. The proposed development does not fit in with the neighborhood because the new houses are completely different than the existing ones. He is also concerned with trash pick-up and mail delivery and how it would be handled. Delfino Gonzales (1736 E. Sunview Drive) shares the same concerns as Mr. Charles Rupp. He is also concerned with the increase in traffic, and the headlights of the cars exiting the property shining directly onto his house on the other side of the street. He is also concerned that none of the new houses look anything like the existing neighborhood. Jim Wright (1811 E. Sunview Drive) is concerned that the proposed plan deviates from the existing neighborhood context, which are mostly single-story ranch style homes. Robert Dickinson (1821 E. Sunview Drive) appreciates what the developers are trying to achieve, but it just doesn't fit in for the same reasons that the previous people have stated. Michael Vanderhoof (1903 E. Bolingridge Drive) has been exposed to some of the previous proposals for this site, and from an aesthetic standpoint this is probably as close to, or as good as, what can be achieved on this site. Given the land value, this project is a valid business proposition. Most other developers would have tried to put in 36 to 38 units, but Brandywine has taken a different approach that is much softer. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for July 11, 2001 Page 15 8. DRC No. 3641 - BRANDYWINE DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION (Continued) Committee Member Mark Paone raised the question as to whether a new development should perpetuate the original planning (traditional subdivision), or should it be something like what is being proposed here. There are certainly pros and cons of both types of development relating to traffic, fitting into the neighborhood, massing of 2-story houses, and so forth. If the proposed development was to take a more traditional approach, he suspects that it would have to target a lower priced home. In terms of property value, a traditional subdivision may not be in the best economic interest of this neighborhood. As for the proposed planned unit development, it really needs to consider how to better transition from the existing single story neighborhood to a new 2-story development. There should be more emphasis on the rear elevations of the homes that backs up to Sunview Drive to make them not look like the backside of a house. He would like to see the landscaping depicted more accurately than what is being shown by an artist's rendering. He is also concerned with the location of lot 14 being rather awkward. Committee Member Leonard Filner would like to see a perimeter wall/fencing plan that is more consistent to avoid a "checkerboard" effect with too much variation. Committee Member Susan Secoy stated that although the DRC's purview is to look at the architectural design and aesthetics of the project, it is impossible to not take into consideration some of these planning issues that have been raised in the overall scheme of development review. Committee Chair Joe Woollett stated that his primary concern is to minimize the impact on the existing neighborhood. He is pleased with having fewer units than what could have been achieved through a more traditional approach (by connecting the streets through). The existing topography and grading of the site are real issues. It is difficult to get around the traffic issue no matter how the site is being laid out because there would still an increase in traffic. The primary focus should be on how the new development relates to the existing homes in the surrounding area. He feels that the way the edges have been handled is very sensitive. He also feels that the back of the houses can be made to look just as nice as the front. Committee Member Alice Angus is also concerned with the edge treatment and its interface with the existing single story homes. The applicant has done a good job in working with the topography, but perhaps the houses can be stepped back to provide a better transition. Jim Barisic stated that the existing neighborhood has a certain quaintness and charm. But when new houses are built, the quaintness and charm cannot be replicated. He also likes the single story homes, but the economic circumstance of market demand does not allow that. End of Discussion No action required -Informational item only) DRC 07-11-01 Minutes