07-02-2008 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES -FINAL
2 July 2008
Committee Members Present Bill Cathcart
Adrienne Gladson
Tim McCormack
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: None
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Howard Morris, Senior Landscape Coordinator
Chad Ortlieb, Senior Planner
Sonal Thakur, Assistant Planner
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an Administrative Session beginning at 5:12 p.m.
Chair Wheeler opened the Administrative Session with a review of the Agenda. No changes
were noted.
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry stated there was no new business to report.
The Committee Members reviewed the minutes from June 4, 2008 and noted changes.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:22 p.m.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 2 of 21
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL
All Committee Members were present.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
No public attendees addressed the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the
Agenda.
CONSENT ITEMS:
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate
discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the
public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: JUNE 4, 2008
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve the minutes from the June 4, 2008
Design Review Committee Meeting with changes as noted.
SECOND: Adrienne Gladson
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: Joe Woollett
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 3 of 21
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items:
2) DRC No. 4217-07 and MNSP No. 0507-07 -SANTIAGO CHEVRON
A proposal to convert the existing repair bays into a convenience store for an existing
Chevron gas station.
2844 Santiago Boulevard
Staff Contact: Robert Garcia, 714-744-7231, r~arcia(a,cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Item continued from DRC Meetings of March 5, 2008 and June 4, 2008
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, presented a project overview consistent with the
Staff Report.
Applicant, Wayne Fukuda, address on file, stated he would stick to the designated scope of items
that were of concern at the last presentation. On the issue of compatibility; he felt they had
addressed the issue. The canopy and the building were compatible in design and style. They had
provided a building cross section to show the parapet and the roof height. The tree sizes had
been quantified on the landscape plans, as well as noting the landscape spacing on the legend.
The base stone had been incorporated into the canopy area. On the trash truck access they had
pulled back the planter and they were in the process of obtaining the common drive conditions.
There existed a common drive condition which by common courtesy and by law one half of the
common drive area could not be closed off, ensuring trash truck access. There would be no plant
material or shrubs in the car overhang area and the oleander was substituted with another plant
material. The Crape Myrtle was added in the red Cherokee variety, with the remainder of the
plant palette being defined. Mr. Fukuda stated he felt the overall design concept was more in
line with consistency in architectural style. They had surveyed Chevron stations and many were
not compatible in canopy and building structure. He understood the concern and felt they had
addressed the concerns of the Design Review Committee.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member Cathcart asked if Mr. Fukuda had reviewed the memo from Community
Services regarding the sizing of the plant material?
Mr. Fukuda stated no. Ms. Aranda Roseberry reviewed a copy of the memo with the applicant.
Mr. Fukuda stated the sizing would be added as requested.
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
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Chair Wheeler stated the applicant had done a great job and the proposed project looked very
good. He stated on elevation page A1.02, he suggested the blue paint band be carried to the
other three sides of structure.
Mr. Fukuda agreed that it would be a good addition.
Committee Member Woollett stated the applicant had been very responsive to the suggestions of
the DRC.
Committee Member Gladson asked if there would be lighting on the canopy?
Mr. Fukuda stated there would be under lighting.
Committee Member Gladson stated the design was married to a concept that blended well and
she was pleased with the design.
Committee Member McCormack stated in removing the plants from the car overhang area he felt
they should designate some type of ground cover for the area either rock, mulch, or a very low
ground cover.
Mr. Fukuda stated they could add rock to that area.
Chair Wheeler made a motion to approve DRC 4217-08 and MNSP No. 0507-07, Santiago
Chevron, with the conditions contained in the Staff Report and the memo from Community
Services regarding the landscape, and with the following additional conditions:
1. Landscape and irrigation plan to be submitted to Staff for review.
2. Add rock, mulch or low ground cover to the car overhang areas.
3. Add blue paint stripe to all sides of the structure.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 5 of 21
3) DRC No. 4229-07 - HERTFELDER RESIDENCE
A proposal to relocate an existing garage within the same property, construct a second
detached 864 sq. ft. garage including full bath, and construct a new 673 sq. ft. addition to
the rear of a 1925 Provincial Revival residence.
720 E. Culver Avenue, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan(a,cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Preliminary DRC Review on May 21, 2008
Committee Member Cathcart stated he would be recused from the item presentation as the
architect on the project was a client of his.
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, presented a project overview consistent with the
Staff Report.
Applicant, Jon Califf, address on file, stated the property owner would like to use alternative
materials for the new garage doors.
Applicant, Kevin Hertfelder, address on file, stated wood doors would require more maintenance
and as the doors would not be seen from the street he would like to use an alternative material.
He stated they were keeping the existing garage that had a wood door which would be keeping
with the street scape.
Public Comment
Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated on the relocation of the garage he felt
it should be a requirement that an individual with historic home relocating experience be used.
On the garage door, the OTPA encouraged the use of in kind materials, the Secretary of Interior
Standards discussed the use of materials to differentiate old and new construction, however, did
not discourage the use of in kind materials and that was not the intent of the standard.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member Woollett stated he felt the architect on the proposed project had been
responsive to the suggestions and comments made by the DRC. He had no problem with the
garage doors being of an alternate material, they faced west and were at the rear of the property
and they would be installed on a new structure. He asked for clarification on the pavers?
Mr. Califf stated they had not decided if brick would be used. There was a minimal amount of
brick used on the house and as the driveway area was large they would not want to over use
brick. They wanted to use a pervious material which would cut down on heat and glare from the
west sun. He was working with the property owner to make a determination on what material
they would use.
Committee Member Woollett asked if they had considered the use of gravel?
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 6 of 21
Mr. Califf stated the main issue was the area would be utilized by the applicant's children to ride
their bikes on and gravel would not be a good choice for that area.
Committee Member Woollett stated he was concerned that the material used not be too
contemporary and wanted to have a clearer idea of what was being proposed.
Mr. Hertfelder asked Committee Member Woollett if he could clarify contemporary material?
Committee Member Woollett stated there were concrete pavers and flagstone that would not be
consistent with a historic neighborhood.
Committee Member McCormack stated there were many new types of material on the market
that had different patterns and edges that would not be historic. The Committee would like to
see what was proposed. Using brick in a contemporary pattern would make the area look brand
new and using a more historic paver would be recommended. Turf block was an alternative or
the use of Precision block in a 4" profile in which the cell could be filled with grass. It was a
very primitive turf block approach or the block could be purchased in a concrete form that would
be easy to ride bikes on.
Mr. Califf stated the original thought was that scored concrete would be a more historic choice
balanced with the fact that there would be a large area of it and they needed to take into
consideration the reflective heat.
Committee Member McCormack stated they could use a combination of pavers and scored
concrete. Using a white concrete would not reflect as much heat and concrete was a more
historic approach.
Committee Member Gladson asked if the Committee could condition that they see the final
pattern and material use prior to issuance of building permits?
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated if the DRC had a specific direction and they would be making a
recommendation for approval, a condition could be placed on the proposed project to allow the
applicant to move forward with clean plans and incorporate the conditions or changes in those
plans. The project would move to the Planning Commission and they could approve without the
item having to be reviewed again by the DRC.
Mr. Califf stated he would prefer if they could come up with something Staff reviewed before
the project was presented to the Planning Commission.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated the concerns from the DRC centered on the use of contemporary
materials or a traditional material and contemporary pattern - if those were the parameters the
applicant would be given, they would be incorporated into the Staff Report and then allow the
Planning Commission to make a determination based on the recommendation.
Chair Wheeler stated he would be comfortable with that and they could condition that a more
historic treatment be provided subject to the approval by Staff prior to the projects submission to
the Planning Commission. He asked the Committee for the consensus on the garage doors?
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 7 of 21
Committee Member Gladson stated she was in agreement with Staff's recommendation that the
doors be wood.
Committee Member McCormack stated he agreed with the use of wood doors in keeping with
the historic fabric.
Chair Wheeler stated the consensus was 2 for wood and 1 for an alternative material, he
understood the concern for maintenance and the garage was not visible, he leaned on the side of
allowing a metal or fiberglass door.
Committee Member Gladson made a motion to recommend to the Planning Commission DRC
No. 4229-07, Hertfelder Residence, with the conditions contained in the Staff Report and the
following additional conditions:
1. Staff to review the design for the use of pavers based on the direction given by the DRC.
2. Garage door material to be wood.
3. Landscape and irrigation plan to be submitted to Staff.
Prior to a final vote the Committee discussed the use of wood vs. an alternative material for the
garage doors. Chair Wheeler stated for purposes of coming to a consensus, he would side with
the use of wood for the garage door.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSTAIN:None
ABSENT:None
RECUSED:Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 8 of 21
New Agenda Items:
4) DRC No. 4324-08 -CAPRI FLOWERS
A proposal to remodel the facade of a 2,577 sq. ft. freestanding commercial building
currently used as a retail flower sales shop.
1300 N. Tustin Street
Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714-744-7237, cortlieb@cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Senior Planner, Chad Ortlieb, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Ron Phapnis, address on file, stated they had gone through several meetings with
Staff and the owner of the shopping center to refine the features to be consistent with the
remodel scheme of the center. The color scheme would incorporate the use of lighter colors as
the flowers of the shop would bring color to the building. The building had tremendous visibility
due to the location. The intent was to keep a more subtle color scheme and look to the building.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member Woollett stated the location was possibly one of the most visible corners in
the City of Orange. He was pleased with the changes and with the work that was being proposed
to link the building to the future center as continuity was very important. He agreed with the use
of lighter tints and not the use of strong colors. He had a concern with the use of stone and the
caps on the columns. He stated it was difficult to evaluate the building with east, west, north and
south elevations as the building was almost always viewed from the southeast and the building
had many different forms together. It was difficult to evaluate what it would look like and it
would be better if they were able to see a 3D model of the building.
Mr. Phapnis presented the drawings to the Committee and explained in looking at the building
from the intersection there would be a relationship with the curve of the corner and the curve of
the building with the pilasters, they were a rectangular form and not aplant-on, they were
approximately 2-3' from the wall. The stone would carry all the way around the forms.
Committee Member Woollett asked what type of frame would be used for the windows?
Mr. Phapnis stated they proposed the use of aluminum windows with 1 '/2" x 4" black frames to
contrast with the black rim of the canopy.
Committee Member Woollett asked for clarification on the pilaster caps?
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 9 of 21
Mr. Phapnis stated the cap could be wood or foam, he generally would not use foam in an area
that there was the potential for damage. They could use foam or wood with stucco. There would
be a foam parapet on the building.
Committee Member Woollett stated he understood a hard surface foam was available.
Mr. Phapnis stated that was correct, however, he had seen the hard surface foam damaged.
Committee Member Woollett stated the proposed project had the potential for establishing a
corner with some essential quality. He asked what type of stone was proposed?
Mr. Phapnis stated it would be a stone veneer. They had matched a stone that was used in the
Tuskatella center, which was a cultured stone.
Mr. Ortlieb pointed out the areas in the shopping center that had minor stone treatments.
Chair Wheeler stated on the building stone he recommended that it wrap around the corner, he
reviewed the north elevation drawings with the applicant.
Mr. Phapnis stated it would wrap around.
Chair Wheeler stated he had not seen a roof plan.
Mr. Phapnis stated they had submitted a roof plan and presented the roof plan to the Committee
Members. He reviewed the design of the parapet.
Chair Wheeler pointed out some numbering errors on the plans and reviewed those with the
applicant.
Mr. Phapnis reviewed the plans with the Committee Members. He stated the design included
nice features and details that were simple but attractive.
Committee Member McCormack stated this was a major corner and asked if any of the curves
and angles, referring to the plans, would be changed?
Mr. Phapnis stated there would be some changes as the site had not met ADA requirements and
there would be changes in the landscape areas. They would be adding more planters and
simplifying the walkway.
Committee Member McCormack stated he felt the corner should have a little more prominence.
The applicant had stated the colors on the building were very simple to allow the flowers to be
the main attraction. In reviewing the landscape plan it appeared too busy and as the business was
attempting to sell flowers, all the different plants would take away from the product. He
suggested a simpler landscape plan to allow the flowers to be the main focal point.
Chair Wheeler suggested a seasonal planting area to tie into the flowers that would be available
in the shop.
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 10 of 21
Committee Member McCormack stated that would be fine, however, the landscape plans were
not clear and had no detail.
Mr. Phapnis stated he realized that they had not noted the specific plant uses. He stated the 24"
boxed Palm trees would match the existing trees.
Committee Member McCormack stated a 24" boxed Palm tree would be small. He felt the trunk
of the trees should be 25'. He suggested the trees should be 18', 20' and 25' with varied heights
to blend in with the existing center. They would give the corner some prominence and the
applicant needed to have more detail in the landscape plans.
Committee Member Cathcart stated the cross-hatching was all the same on the landscape plans
and he suggested a simplified plant palette. He also agreed with a seasonal planting area. He felt
the landscape plan should be reviewed by the DRC.
Committee Member Gladson stated she agreed that the corner was one of the most commonly
passed by or walked by areas on Katella. She felt the applicant was on the right track with the
compatibility to the rest of the center. She suggested an upgrade of the trash enclosure,
aesthetically a better door to the enclosure would help.
Committee Member McCormack asked if there were street trees proposed for the corner?
Senior Landscape Coordinator, Howard Morris, stated there were King Palm trees that were
planted on Tustin Avenue, he was not aware of the plan for Katella, and believed there were
existing Ficas trees there.
Committee Member McCormack stated there was a Pine tree noted on the plans and confirmed
that it would remain on the property?
Mr. Phapnis stated there were two Pine trees on the site. He stated the trees had very large roots
that appeared to be growing under the building.
Committee Member McCormack stated he would like to condition that the Pine trees would not
be removed. The trees provided some corner presence.
Mr. Phapnis stated he was not wanting to remove the trees, however, he asked if they could look
at the tree issue from an impact on the building as the roots were very large?
Committee Member McCormack stated if the roots had not already caused a problem they would
not cause one in the future.
Committee Member Woollett asked what would occur with the building signage?
Mr. Phapnis stated a sign program would be submitted at a later date it was not part of the
presentation.
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 11 of 21
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve, DRC 4324-08, Capri Flowers, with
the conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the following additional conditions:
1. Increase band on stone cap.
2. Simplify landscape concept and designate specific plant size and type on plan.
3. Upgrade the Queen Palm tree size and have variations in height.
4. Retain existing Pine trees.
5. Upgrade trash enclosure.
6. Add seasonal planting area at front of the property.
SECOND: Adrienne Gladson
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 12 of 21
5) DRC No. 4340-08 - WAHOO'S FISH TACOS RESTAURANT
A proposal to demolish anon-contributing one-story stucco storefront, restore and
convert the two-story "Vineland Hotel" building as a restaurant. Includes a new two-
story in-fill retail store and second-story offices.
226 W. Chapman Avenue, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan(cr~cityoforangeorg
DRC Action: Preliminary Review
Chair Wheeler and Committee Member Cathcart were recused from the presentation, due to the
project's location in proximity to their business locations.
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, presented a project overview consistent with the
Staff Report.
Applicant, Wil Hosband, address on file, stated the project would be additions through
subtraction by removing the existing facade. In removing and revealing the historic boarding
house it would be a positive addition for the street. The new two-story retail and office addition
would be intended to pick up on the buff colored brick that was established on the west Chapman
area. Wahoo's restaurant would be coming in which would be a vibrant restaurant with a lot of
activity.
Public Comment
Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, thanked the applicant for the tour they had
given him of the building and to the architect for sharing the preliminary plans with the OTPA.
The addition and refurbishment was creating a lot of excitement in the community, considering
the hotel was the oldest in Orange and possibly the oldest in Orange County. Regarding the
addition to the structure, the Santa Fe Depot plan had not addressed that area. The Secretary of
Interior Standards stated additions should be avoided if at all possible and there should be
exploration of alternative areas that could be expanded in the interior. If space could not be
created within the interior of the building the addition would be acceptable. Mr. Frankel stated
he disagreed with Staff on the statement that if it was a true addition to the Vineland Hotel the
building design would be required to match existing Victorian features. He stated that was
contrary to the Secretary of Interior Standards which stated the design of the new work could be
contemporary in nature. He felt that would not be appropriate for the area, in a more urban
setting contemporary could work. The standards also noted that the addition could reflect the
existing structure or may reflect surrounding structures. As far as the standards were concerned
the design and materials would be appropriate. The OTPA wanted to ensure the addition would
not destroy any character finding features of the existing structure. He stated the proposed
project was moving in a positive direction.
Jon Califf, address on file, stated he felt the design of the proposed project worked really well
and he supported the rehabilitation of the structure. His questions were directed to Staff and
were more procedural in nature. On the in-lieu parking, he had understood that it was
established based on the assumption that there was adequate parking in the down town area that
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 13 of 21
would allow uses to be added and the parking would work out and he asked for clarification on
the parking issue.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated she apologized as she was not familiar with the specifics of the
origins of the in-lieu parking program; however, she could find out more information prior to the
project returning to the DRC.
Mr. Califf stated when the parking program was established it was believed there would be
adequate parking overall; he felt that it may longer be the case. He was interested in how the
loading, trash and access would work at the back of the building. He asked if the applicant had a
streetscape elevation of the building that showed the adjacent buildings for height comparison on
the new structure. He thought it was a great project and was interested in how the logistics
would work.
Committee Member Woollett asked Staff to take into consideration the comments made by Mr.
Califf. The applicant had provided a street elevation and it was important to have the streetscape
elevations. He recommended it be included in any future presentations. He stated the proposed
project was an excellent opportunity for the City to recapture the old building; it was a
challenging project architecturally and they also needed to work through the maze of rules. After
the legal requirements were met it was important to put the building into context; it was apparent
that the guidelines were not addressed as the building had not been recognized. He felt the
comments presented by Mr. Frankel were very appropriate. In his opinion if there was a case for
applying the rules the proposed project would be the one. It would be inappropriate to have the
addition reflect the old style, particularly as it would be adjacent to a building that was very
different and its designation was unknown. The project was very sensitively done and he would
leave it to Staff to work through the rules and apply them correctly. The proposed project would
be an asset to the community. He addressed Mr. Califf, and stated he felt the public parking
across the street would cover the parking requirement, although it could be full much of the time.
Applicant, Brad Rogers, stated there were entitlements and easements that would allow egress
and ingress, trash pickup, and pedestrian walking. There were also utility entitlements included
in the project.
Vice-Chair Woollett opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member Gladson stated she commended the idea of bringing back the hotel. She had
the privilege of conducting walking tours in Old Towne and the site was one of the buildings that
she pointed out during her tour, and had forgotten how old the hotel was until she had reviewed
the Staff report. The idea of pursuing the whole restoration of the building was a great thing to
pursue, the challenge would be weeding through the preservation efforts and the Santa Fe
specific plan, she concurred that it would be inappropriate to have the addition be a Victorian
design and it should be different with a line of demarcation. She felt the buildings on the east
and west of the project could be contributing structures and she would be interested in receiving
more information on those areas. The rear elevation, she felt, required more detail and more
restoration of historic details.
Committee Member Woollett reviewed the elevation and stated it appeared historic in design.
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 14 of 21
Committee Member Gladson stated parking was a concern, she had recalled the creation of the
in-lieu program and the general consensus that there was an adequate supply, although not
convenient, that there was adequate parking. The proposed project had noted the business
required 29 parking stalls to meet code; however, there was no parking provided.
Committee Member McCormack stated he was excited about the project and it was a good
addition to the area. He asked how the historic structure would meet the new addition and would
there be the use of a double wall or spacer?
Mr. Hosband stated the challenge was to have a functional building. It would be connected at
the second-floor offices. Although the buildings would be connected they would be using a
different architectural design. There would be some distance allowed in certain areas.
Committee Member McCormack stated he was involved with the SAVI building and how that
was handled. He was curious in looking at a stand alone historic structure in how the applicant
proposed to deal with the building edge, both structurally and from the interior view. He pointed
out the areas on the plans he was referring to. In regard to parking he was concerned how
patrons entering from the back would experience the restaurant. Fullerton had dealt with the
same issue and they had developed an upgrade on the backside of the buildings. He asked how
the trash enclosure would work? He was interested in how the signage program would work in
assisting patrons with way finding.
Committee Member Gladson stated on the western connection, she would want to see drawings
on how the connection would work and she would like to review that.
Committee Member McCormack stated there were different sets of situations that emphasized
the historic structure and he was interested in how they would handle that.
Applicant, Ed Lee, address on file, stated there were other Wahoo's locations in Huntington
Beach and Laguna Beach that had no designated parking and those patrons would figure out how
to get to the establishments. The immediate concern was the restoration of the existing building
and they would continue to develop the connection. The trash enclosure was needed on the
property and the area it was designated for was the only available spot for it to be placed in. The
main focus was the front end and the side area (he pointed out the areas on the drawings); there
would not be a rear entry. The building was tight and there were ADA requirements that took up
quite a bit of space. Toward the back of the building the area would remain empty, as it had
exposed brick the area itself would be a nice spot in its present condition.
Committee Member McCormack stated the additional outdoor area was very nice and he could
envision many uses for the area.
Mr. Lee stated they had other ideas, which would be addressed at a later date. They had ABC
rules that they needed to follow and the handicap ramp would be the only change to that area.
The trash receptacles faced the parking lot.
Committee Member McCormack suggested a tree being planted in the outdoor area.
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 15 of 21
Mr. Rodgers stated there could be many uses for the additional space such as art shows or other
exhibits.
Committee Member McCormack stated he was interested in defining a use for the area as it was
such a great space and he would like the applicant to continue to work on a plan for the space.
Applicant, Rick Guina, stated the area was nice in its present condition and they would be adding
lighting to it.
Mr. Lee stated the area was not as large as it appeared after the consideration for the handicapped
requirements.
Committee Member Gladson stated on the long range aspect in 10 years another restaurant could
come in and they were looking at the land use for the future to make the space functional. She
asked how the office space would work?
Mr. Lee stated the downstairs would be retail and the other offices would be leased.
Mr. Hosband stated on the wall between the new and the existing, the intent would be to
continue the concept that when inside Wahoo's the interior would be consistent with the
Wahoo's style, the connection would be separated with no perception of a clash of styles.
Committee Member Woollett asked what was the intent on the east side wall which belonged to
the neighboring property and when would they be back with a final presentation?
Mr. Lee stated the wall was exposed brick and any restoration or changes would require
permission from the neighbor. They wanted to get started as soon as possible.
Committee Member McCormack asked what was proposed for the edge area of the sidewalk?
Mr. Hosband stated the preliminary landscape concept called for a picket fence that mimicked
part of the historic porch and there would also be some paving.
Committee Member McCormack stated in Old Towne there were many areas that just had a
sidewalk and a fence. He suggested moving the fence back a bit to add a soft scape edge to
soften the look.
Committee Member Gladson stated there was a street tree that existed.
Committee Member McCormack stated there was a Camphor tree. He suggested the addition of
one large tree, and pointed out the area on the plans he was referring to, a type of Paley Park
atmosphere.
Committee Member Gladson asked if the applicant intended to incorporate something of historic
significance to pay tribute to the Vineland Hotel?
Mr. Lee stated they intended to use the original sign "The Orange Inn" on the property.
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
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Committee Member Woollett asked if the applicants had received sufficient information to move
forward on the proposed project?
Applicants agreed they had been given some important suggestions and information.
No motion was necessary, as the proposed project was presented to the Design Review
Committee for preliminary review.
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Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 17 of 21
6) DRC No. 4356-08, CUP No. 2720-08, and MNSP No. 0551-08 - ARBY'S FAST FOOD
RESTAURANT
A proposal to demolish and modify portions of an existing commercial building to
accommodate a new 2,420 sq. ft. Arby's drive-thru restaurant, and two 1,800 sq. ft.
commercial retail tenant spaces.
1107 N. Tustin Street
Staff Contact: Sonal Thakur, 714-744-7239, sthakur(a,cityoforan~e.or~
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Committee Member Cathcart was recused from the project presentation due to his office being
the landscape architect for the proposed project.
Assistant Planner, Sonal Thakur, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Todd Matthews, address on file, stated he was sure the Committee Members were
familiar with the location. The property had been essentially empty for about a year and a half
and he was excited to have the opportunity to revamp the building and bring it up to standard.
They proposed to add a considerable amount of landscape. They had made a major concession
to subtract approximately 1300 square feet from the building to meet the parking, landscape, and
driveway requirements. The outbuildings that were most likely not permitted would be cleared
out. The amount of work to the building would be extensive and the intent was to make it more
presentable for the City.
Architect, Jon Califf, address on file, stated he had a correction to the lighting, there would be 11
light poles at 24', they may be able to reduce the number of light poles to 9, however; they
would need to meet the Police Department Crime Prevention standards. There was a condition
from Public Works that had managed to survive a couple of SRC Meetings for a reconstruction
of the curb and gutter at the corner. The curb area was already at 36', they would not want a
condition stating they would be required to reconstruct the curb area as it already met the
requirements.
Mr. Matthews stated the initial drawing that was submitted was directly from the assessors map
and was not correct.
Mr. Califf stated the error was noted, however, the condition had carried over.
Public Comment
None.
Committee Member Woollett stated he recalled the asphalt paving being in poor shape.
Mr. Califf stated it was not too bad; the trash enclosure area was in poor shape and would most
likely be redone.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 18 of 21
Committee Member Woollett stated the east property wall fence was in bad shape and he asked
who owned the wall?
Mr. Califf stated he believed it was on the residential property, it would not be feasible to add a
wall on their property. The wall was low and had some areas of wall missing.
Committee Member Woollett stated he recalled if there was not an existing wall the applicant
would be required to build a wall to separate the commercial from the residential. If there was a
wall on a portion of the property or areas of a wall missing the City may have some way of
apportioning the wall. He felt the wall would need repair.
Chair Wheeler stated he was pleased with the design. He was concerned with the drive-up
window in relationship to the apartment building. He suggested the addition of a wall for a
sound barrier or to move the drive-up to the other side.
Mr. Califf stated from an operational standpoint Arby's preferred that it would move south one
car length, however, Public Works at SRC were of the opinion that there would be stacking. The
subsequent traffic study indicated that would not be the case. It would be feasible to add a wall
at the order window, but it could become a maintenance issue.
Mr. Matthews stated he felt adding a wall would not work. He contacted the signage and order
window equipment company to get further detail. There would be a 36" high speaker and the
microphone would be at face level, the speaker was 18" from the ground, with both speakers
directed toward the car. The sound would be directed in an easterly direction toward the post
office. The apartment building was located toward the front of the property and the noise
pollution would not be a factor, there was also vegetation that would absorb the sound.
Committee Member Gladson asked for clarification on the color illustrations?
Mr. Califf presented a drawing that denoted the color scheme. He stated the canopy area would
be vinyl with stucco pop-outs with a metal cap over the top.
Committee Member Gladson stated she had concerns with the on-site circulation; it appeared
there would be areas where cars could cross over the drive-up lane as it was just a painted lane.
Mr. Califf stated they had the same issue at various drive-up restaurants and patrons would not
be able to place their order at that point in the drive-up lane.
Committee Member McCormack asked if a landscape plan would be submitted.
Ms. Thakur stated there was a plan submitted in their packet and presented a copy to Committee
Member McCormack.
Mr. Califf stated the front wall would be demolished to pull the building back and they would be
retaining most of the existing roof. There would be landscaping on the front of the building with
a 4' planter addition.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 19 of 21
Committee Member McCormack stated the layout was similar to the Burger King on Palm and
Tustin and he was concerned with the drive-up access.
Mr. Califf stated they were unable to account for patrons who would not use the drive-up access
properly.
Committee Member Gladson stated she would prefer to allow the traffic engineers and the
Planning Commission to grapple with the drive-up access. Adding some type of barrier could
make circulation worse. She was comfortable with leaving it up to the experts to review.
Mr. Matthews stated the original idea was to keep the entire building; however, they had made a
major concession by demolishing a portion of the building to make the building work and
maintain economic viability for the business.
Chair Wheeler stated the projection of the pinnacle should be shown on the drawing.
Committee Member McCormack asked why there was not a curb, pointing to an area on the
drawings.
Mr. Matthews stated it was based on the distance between the back wall, the landscape off-set,
the parking requirements and the 25' and 12' requirements.
Chair Wheeler suggested having a very low curb that could be driven over if necessary.
Mr. Califf stated there would be an issue with drainage in adding a curb. There was not a
grading plan and he had concerns with the drainage. Public Works had not wanted much work
done on the site due to the WQMP.
Chair Wheeler asked for a consensus on the separation and sound issue?
Committee Member McCormack suggested the addition of a wall or a hedge.
Committee Member Gladson stated she felt there was not a need to buffer the noise due to the
new technology at drive-up windows. The noise should not be a problem.
Committee Member Woollett stated a hedge would not be a sound barrier. The City had sound
thresholds that would need to be met. He felt it would not be an issue.
Ms. Thakur stated many of the drive-up windows had a visual confirmation board which cut
down on the back and forth conversation at the drive-up.
Mr. Matthews stated he spoke with Arby's and they would not be utilizing a visual confirmation
board. With the distance from the adjacent property to the drive-up window he felt there would
not be a noise conflict.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to recommend approval to the Planning
Commission DRC No. 4356-08; CUP No. 2720-08, and MNSP No. 0551-08, Arby's Fast Food
Restaurant, with the conditions contained in the Staff Report.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 20 of 21
SECOND: Adrienne Gladson
AYES:Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSTAIN:None
ABSENT:None
RECUSED: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for July 2, 2008
Page 21 of 21
ADJOURNMENT:
A motion was made by Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn to the next
regular scheduled meeting on Wednesday, July 16, 2008. The meeting adjourned at 8:06 p.m.
SECOND:Craig Wheeler
AYES:Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSTAIN:None
ABSENT:Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.