06-04-2008 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES -FINAL
4 June 2008
Committee Members Present: Bill Cathcart
Adrienne Gladson
Tim McCormack
Craig Wheeler
Committee Members Absent: Joe Woollett
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Ted Reynolds, Assistant City Attorney
Chad Ortlieb, Senior Planner
Robert Garcia, Associate Planner
Doris Nguyen, Associate Planner
Dan Ryan, Senior Planner, Historic Preservation
Sonal Thakur, Assistant Planner
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
Tl1e Committee met for an Administrative Session beginning at 5:05 p.m.
Chair Wheeler opened the Administrative Session with a review of the Agenda. No changes
were noted.
Assistant City Attorney, Ted Reynolds, stated the attorneys would be looking to address any
legal issues during the administrative session and to discuss any potential conflicts prior to the
start of the regular session. The attorney would not remain for the duration of the meeting and
Dave De Berry was in the process of drafting a memo with this information. They would try this
process and see if it would work for everyone.
Committee Member McCormack stated on the Holy Sepulcher Cemetery agenda item he knew
the landscape sub-consultant and he had been an employee of the diocese approximately a year
ago, and asked if that presented a conflict?
Mr. Reynolds stated they could discuss the situation between the two of them and decide if that
presented a conflict.
Committee Member McCormack stated when Committee Member Cathcart worked on a
proposed project would his association with him present a conflict?
Mr. Reynolds stated no.
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated that brought up a good point and would be
the basis for further discussion and good information for the new members of the DRC to have.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 2 of 21
It was important to understand how their relationships with each other and their involvement in a
project would play into any conflict issues.
Committee Member Cathcart stated it was difficult, as just being in the City of Orange for any
length of time associated the Committee Members with so many people.
Mr. Reynolds stated that was true, and the conflict of interest was based on financial and
economic interests.
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:25 p.m.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED.
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Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 3 of 21
ROLL CALL
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
Committee Member Woollett absent.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
No public attendees addressed the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the
Agenda.
CONSENT ITEMS:
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate
discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the
public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action.
1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES-(a) April 16, 2008 (b) May 7, 2008 (c) May 21, 2008:
a) Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve the April 16, 2008 meeting
minutes with changes as noted.
SECOND: Adrienne Gladson
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: Bill Cathcart
ABSENT: Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED.
b) Committee Member Gladson made a motion to approve the May 7, 2008 meeting
minutes with changes as noted.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: Tim McCormack
ABSENT: Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 4 of 21
c) Committee Member Cathcart made a motion to approve the May 21, 2008 meeting
minutes with changes as noted.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED.
2) DRC No. 4342-08 -FARMERS INSURANCE
A proposal for new wall signage utilizing the corporate logo and design, which
possesses a font other than "Optima" as required by the existing sign program.
333 South Anita Drive
Staff Contact: Sonal Thakur, 714-744-7239, sthakur(a~cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve DRC 4342-08, Farmers Insurance,
with the conditions contained in the Staff Report.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 5 of 21
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items:
3) DRC No. 4083-06, GPA No. 2006-0001, ZC No. 1244-06, VAR No. 2174-06, MJSP No.
0440-06, ENV No. 1768-06 -HOLY SEPULCHER CEMETERY
A proposal to develop 11 acres of vacant land as a mausoleum, administration building,
wall crypts, family estates, lawn crypts, family mausoleums, maintenance facility,
driveway extension, and entrance upgrades for the cemetery. Recreational trails would
also be dedicated and/or improved if the project is approved.
7845 East Santiago Canyon Road
Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714-744-7223, do uyen(a~cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Item continued from DRC Preliminary Review of April 16, 2008
Associate Planner, Doris Nguyen, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Mike Padian, address on file, stated he would be going over the proposed project and
changes that were made from the previous preliminary review of the project. The majority of the
suggestions from the DRC were incorporated into the project. The landscape plans had been
modified, a roof plan and orthographic drawings were provided, and they had color boards to
review with the Committee. They had reviewed the Cupola and they were pleased with what
they had, although the building had some strong Italian references they were not attempting to
provide a historical replication. They were using some more modern materials that provided
natural light into the building. He presented an exhibit and photos from the west side of the
property regarding the chain link fence, where a horse trail would be added. There was an
approximately 8'wide dirt area and to create a 10' buffer with a 10' wide trail the fence would be
moved back. The existing fencing consisted of chain link or three strand wire fencing. There
was a small section with ornamental metal fencing and another area that had an existing wall.
He reviewed the drawings with the Committee and pointed out where each type of fencing was
located around the property. Along Road Kill Trail there was an older type fence which
consisted of wooden posts and double rails and Chester Way Trail had a new type PVC fence.
He stated they proposed to leave much of the fencing in its current state. On the east side of the
property, where most of the expansion would be taking place, they proposed to remove the
existing chain link fence and replace it with an ornamental metal fence. There would be pilasters
with black painted metal fencing between them and it would run along the frontage along
Santiago Canyon Road. On the north side there would be a wall around the maintenance facility
which would be an 8' fence, requiring a variance, and this would provide additional screening of
the maintenance area.
Mr. Padian stated, reviewing cross section No. 1, the office parking section, the area contained a
slope with the parking lot located above street grade. The intent for the hillside was to plant a
variety of low to high rise shrubs which would screen the cars from most off site views. No. 2
was an expanded view of the maintenance area. The same type of shrub planting would be
completed along the maintenance area as well. The majority of the maintenance area was
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 6 of 21
surrounded by an 8' high wall. He reviewed several exhibits and drawings with the Committee
and explained the cross section locations. No. 3 contained a 14' wide road with a 4' wide
landscape area with taller, more column-like trees to create a row to soften the building. They
had been in contact with the Fire Department regarding an access point that would allow them to
enter the reservoir. ADA access was provided along the building access areas, in the open areas
it was not generally provided in a cemetery setting.
Applicant, Christopher Mekus, address on file, provided a color board for the Committee
Members to review. He stated the samples were of the exterior finishes. There would be red and
green granite used in the front areas of the buildings. The roof tile, which was a light weight
concrete flat roof tile, would be in a green shade and cover all buildings. The walls would be
finished with a darker stucco band, with a random ashler panel of stone used at the base.
Visually they wanted rustication at the base and with the progression vertically to go from a
more textured plaster to a smoother plaster above, with the change in color. He provided a
photograph of stain glass that would be representative of the proposed glass to be used in the
rotunda, tower and main mausoleum. The window finishes would be dark bronze. He provided
samples of the ledge stone, ashler stone and the roof tile.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Chair Wheeler asked if they had samples of the pre-cast concrete?
Mr. Mekus stated they did not bring samples; they would have a smooth finish.
Committee Member McCormack asked for clarification on the smooth plaster that was
mentioned in the presentation?
Mr. Mekus stated the exterior finish would be stucco, it would not be plaster.
Chair Wheeler asked what type of finish they would use for the stucco?
Mr. Padian stated they would use a light sand finish.
Mr. Mekus stated it would have a sand texture to it that was generally referred to as a Tuscan
trowel finish. The materials used in the proposed project would be those indigenous to the area.
Committee Member Gladson stated she appreciated the level of detail the applicant had taken in
the presentation of the proposed property fencing. She asked for clarification on the three strand
wire fencing and had they intended to have it curve?
Mr. Padian stated it was currently curved as there was a slope in the area and the fence followed
the slope.
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Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 7 of 21
Committee Member Gladson asked what was the intent for the additional property the Diocese
owned that was currently undeveloped?
Mr. Padian stated they had enough inventory to last approximately 40 years. The Diocese owned
additional property that was currently in the general plan as residential.
Committee Member McCormack asked for clarification on the trail expansion.
Mr. Padian stated they had been requested by the Homeowners Association and the Park
Planning & Development Committee to expand the trail to a 10' trail as per City guidelines. In
order to do that, they would be widening the trail onto their property. The area would re-graded.
Chair Wheeler stated he had attended a garden show and there was an exhibit of native plants
and a display of the 10 worst invaders ofnon-native plants. One of the plants in that display was
Vinca minor and he asked Committee Member McCormack what he felt about the use of that
plant?
Committee Member McCormack stated he assumed that the Vinca Minor would at the building
face and not wandering out past any sidewalk areas. He viewed it being underneath other shrubs
as a ground cover.
Mr. Padian stated it would be used as a ground cover.
Committee Member McCormack stated the applicants had not spoken about the lighting concept.
Walkways required lighting, as well as landscaped areas and doorways, and he asked for more
information about the proposed lighting?
Mr. Mekus stated most cemetery hours were dawn to dusk. There would not be a lot of artificial
lighting found within a cemetery. They proposed lighting for the tower to be lit at night as it
would become an identifier for people passing by. Any artificial lighting would be used along
Santiago Canyon Road to highlight some of the features. The cemetery would not be used after
dark.
Mr. Padian stated Committee Member McCormack was reviewing the standard requirements for
lighting from the Police and Fire Department. They were being required to light the parking lot
of the administrative building. The lighting in that area would be on timers to be turned off at
dusk. The proposed plan called for building access walkways to be lit and there would be
minimum lighting in those areas.
Ms. Nguyen stated they had received a public inquiry regarding the lights being currently lit
around the clock at the maintenance facility and would that continue?
Mr. Mekus stated there would be some degree of security lighting around the maintenance area.
Mr. Padian stated once the maintenance building and fencing was reworked the lighting would
be going into the maintenance yard and away from any residential areas.
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Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 8 of 21
Chair Wheeler stated he was pleased that the oculi had been changed. On exhibit No. 31 the thin
walls were still noted. He suggested the thicker wall areas would be a place to add a nitch for
some type of statuary or art, a cut out on the inside could be added.
Mr. Mekus stated the intent of the wall was to show some mass as a structural element.
Chair Wheeler pointed out an area on the administrative building and asked what those elements
were for?
Mr. Mekus stated they did not want to have a flat roof across with a sloped roof coming up
again. They had created a bridge of sloped roof.
Chair Wheeler suggested filling in the entire area with a flat roof.
Mr. Mekus stated they had kept some areas flat for the purpose of screening any maintenance
materials or equipment.
Committee Member McCormack stated the property had been presented as not being in the
Cities Fuel Modification Zone; if it was not in the City it maybe in the County's zone.
Mr. Padian stated the reservoir areas were very dry, once arriving at the cemetery those areas that
surrounded the cemetery were very wet. He felt the requirement from the Fire Department
would be for specific types of planting along the perimeter. For the most part the proposal
called for turf and trees.
Committee Member McCormack clarified the area that would include a ramp for ADA access.
Mr. Mekus pointed out the areas for ADA access.
Committee Member McCormack asked for clarification on fire lanes.
Mr. Padian stated there was standard language contained in the proposal for fire lane and Fire
Department access. They would work with the local agencies to ensure the requirements were
met. He pointed out the areas for two way traffic with parking on both sides which would allow
adequate flow of traffic and Fire Department access.
Committee Member McCormack stated the overall aesthetic for a cemetery would be to have
larger trees.
Mr. Padian stated it was a question whether to present the trees as just planted or as more mature
trees. The intent was to have trees that were similar to what existed in the area, they would be
trees that would grow larger, provide shade and could be looked through from the second level.
Mr. Mekus stated the tree varieties would vary with the area they would be planted in. They
needed to be able to get a lift into the various areas for caskets and access to the wall crypts.
Ms. Nguyen asked if Committee Member McCormack was asking for a different specie or a
bigger box?
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 9 of 21
Committee Member McCormack stated he suggested a larger tree specie, such as Platanus
racemosa, a tree that would grow up and have the ability to be looked through, and match the
scale of the other trees already on site.
Mr. Padian stated along the edge of the property there was a heavy predominance of tall Pine
trees and they would replicate that around the property.
Committee Member McCormack asked if there was a way to line up the trees with the building
architecture. He suggested a balance between the trees and the building. On the plant palette he
suggested including a plant that would be a transitional plant between the grass and the shrubs
and include some additional plant choices for the property edges.
Committee Member Cathcart stated Buffalo Grass could be used in those areas. He had
reviewed the plant list and the suggestions from the previous meeting that had been incorporated
in the changes to the plant palette.
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to recommend approval to the Planning
Commission DRC No. 4083-06, GPA No. 2006-0001, ZC No. 1244-06, VAR No. 2174-06,
MJSP No. 0440-06, ENV No. 1768-06, Holy Sepulcher Cemetery, with the conditions contained
in the Staff Report and with the following additional conditions:
1. In the area by the new family estates use larger specie trees to compliment existing
growth.
2. Include another transitional ground cover between the grass and shrub areas.
3. Landscape and irrigation plans to be submitted to Staff for review.
4. Verify conditions for a Fuel Modification Plan with the County.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 10 of 21
4) DRC No. 4217-07 and MNSP No. 0507-07 -SANTIAGO CHEVRON
A proposal to convert the existing repair bays into a convenience store for an existing
Chevron gas station.
2844 Santiago Boulevard
Staff Contact: Robert Garcia, 714-744-7231, r arcia ,cityoforan~;e•org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Item continued from DRC Meeting of March 5, 2008
Associate Planner, Robert Garcia, gave a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Sal Hassam, address on file, stated the proposed structure was a departure from the
initial proposal; the canopy had remained the same. The canopy/pad area was kept the same and
the existing structure would have a change to the parapet.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Chair Wheeler stated from the demolition plan he had the impression that the existing building
would be demolished.
Mr. Hassam stated the primary structure, which was a metal building that had been modified
over time. A CMU wall and stucco elements had been added and it would not be demolished.
Chair Wheeler asked if the existing roof would remain?
Mr. Hassam stated yes that was correct.
Chair Wheeler asked if the 4 and 12 roof would be completely concealed by the parapets?
Mr. Hassam stated yes it would be completely concealed, he had not provided a drawing for that
section.
Chair Wheeler asked where the plate line would be?
Mr. Hassam stated it was very low; the current overhang was very generous.
Chair Wheeler was concerned that the old roof could be seen above the parapet and asked what
the roofing material would be?
Mr. Hassam stated it would be a capped roof with a 3 ply material that would work up to the
parapet.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 11 of 21
Chair Wheeler asked if the ridge was offset?
Mr. Hassam stated, "yes, it was."
Chair Wheeler stated at the previous meeting the Committee had not expressed any issues with
the roof and what existed was very compatible with the neighborhood. They had asked to view
the canopy in relationship to the existing building. They had asked that the canopy be made
more compatible with the building; however, the applicant had redesigned the building and it
was not compatible with other buildings in the area. The cornice did not agree with anything and
there was not any agreement between the building and the canopy.
Mr. Hassam stated it had been discussed both ways -that the building should be compatible with
the canopy or the canopy with the building.
Committee Member Gladson stated they had made a request to view the two structures for
compatibility. She recollected that they were interested in the building and the canopy being tied
together. She felt that the current proposal had no compatibility between the building and the
canopy and she concurred with Chair Wheeler. She was more inclined to have a flat roof on
both structures.
Chair Wheeler suggested they use the canopy fascia in place of the cornice that was on the
proposed drawings for the building.
Mr. Hassam stated the struggle with the project was that the proposal was an upgrade by a
franchisor who was very protective of their image. The canopy was maintained for the logo and
brand name image.
Committee Member Gladson stated they needed to marry the two structures. The structures
could be special and have unique characters that were compatible with the Mediterranean
structures in the area. She was not opposed to a more modern design, however, the two
structures needed to fit together. Elements could be added to the columns under the canopy to tie
the two structures together.
Chair Wheeler stated they had suggested the addition of like elements to the columns at the last
presentation.
Mr. Hassam stated unless they were substantial elements they would not be very visible. The
bases of the columns could be restructured with the some of the building elements carried over to
them.
Chair Wheeler stated they could use the same color scheme for both the building and canopy, he
assumed the canopy colors were fixed.
Mr. Hassam stated the canopy colors were the Chevron logo colors and the design of the canopy
had a space age appearance.
Committee Member McCormack asked if Chevron would allow them to change the canopy?
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 12 of 21
Mr. Hassam stated if it was a must they would work with them. Chevron had an interest in
maintaining their image as it was a nationwide design.
Committee Member Gladson stated she would be pleased to see the project move forward as the
site needed upgrading. She was comfortable with suggesting that they either go with the space
age design for both structures or change the canopy to the same design as the building -they
needed to be compatible.
Chair Wheeler stated he would want to see another reiteration of the proposed project and he was
interested on reviewing an alternate proposal.
Committee Member McCormack stated the two structures should have some relationship, as
proposed there was not any relationship in color or form.
Chair Wheeler stated the buildings should have compatibility in both color and form and he felt
the best solution would be to have the building agree with the canopy.
Committee Member McCormack stated with the small spaces for landscaping it was busier than
it needed to be. On the plant legend it was noted 24" box and all new trees facing front shall be
24", he asked for clarification on the trees as they should be quantified and more specific. The
areas that called out for one gallon in the polygonal shaped areas should include the spacing. For
items No. 6 through 8 the spacing should be noted on the legend. A 15 gallon Chamaerops
humilis would be very small, and they should review that planting. On the site plan, there was a
small opening at the property line for trash truck access and he wanted to ensure the access
would accommodate a trash truck.
Mr. Hassam stated the space Committee Member McCormack referred to would accommodate a
trash truck, the area was a common drive and he felt there was a recorded easement to allow
access. The landscape areas could be reduced in size to accommodate any future access issues.
Committee Member McCormack suggested that shrub or ground cover not be planted in the car
overhang areas.
Committee Member Cathcart suggested the Crape Myrtle should be the Cherokee Red variety
rather than the Watermelon variety for the mold and mildew aspect. Finding a Chamaerops
humilis of a larger size would be difficult and suggested a Phoenix roebelenii or a Tachycarpus
fortunei. The Oleander would not take shearing very well and they were suspect with blight and
suggested an alternative plant.
Chair Wheeler made a motion to continue DRC No. 4217-07 and MNSP No. 0507-07, Santiago
Chevron, to allow the applicant to modify the proposal:
1. To have the canopy and building be more compatible with each other.
2. Provide a building cross section to show the parapet and roof height.
3. Quantify the tree sizes on the landscape plans.
4. Note spacing of the landscape materials on the legend.
5. Incorporate base stone into the canopy area.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 13 of 21
6. Clarify the trash truck access; modify the planter to accommodate access if necessary.
7. No shrubs or plant material in the car overhang areas.
And with the following requirements:
1. Change the Oleander to another plant specie.
2. Substitute Chamaerops humilis to Crape myrtle -Cherokee Red variety.
SECOND: Adrienne Gladson
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 14 of 21
5) DRC No. 4242-07 & MNSP No. 0518-07 -SPIRES EXPRESS
A proposal to develop a vacant site with a 2,600 sq. ft. drive-thru restaurant, a 3,000 sq.
ft. office building, landscaping, and parking lot paving.
1220 North Batavia Street
Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714-744-7237, cortlieb(a~cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Item continued from DRC Meeting of March 19, 2008
Senior Planner, Chad Ortlieb, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Milad Oueijan, address on file, stated they had added a strip of lighting behind each
band of stainless steel. It would be added onto the main building and not the office building.
The lighting would be the same colors as the logo sign.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member McCormack stated they had spoken at the last presentation about adding
lighting to other visible zones, and pointed the areas out on the drawings.
Mr. Oueijan stated the proposed project had changes to the roof area, creating a recessed roof in
the area Committee Member McCormack was referring to.
Committee Member McCormack asked if there was any lighting on the back side of the
building?
Mr. Oueijan stated the lighting wrapped all the way around, the corners would stay exposed and
he presented the drawings that should how the area would be lit. There would be lighting on all
4 sides, as well as landscape lighting.
Chair Wheeler stated he felt the changes were good and that it was a wonderful project. He
asked if the design would become a prototype?
Mr. Oueijan stated it would be a guideline for future buildings.
Committee Member McCormack asked if there would be a grid pattern on the back of the
building and if the back of the building would be stucco?
Mr. Oueijan stated the grid would be only on the front and the back would be stucco. He
reviewed the changes and the drawings with the Committee Members and clarified the elements
on the building.
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Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 15 of 21
Chair Wheeler stated the office building carried the same theme, but was different and it
appealed to him.
Committee Member Gladson stated she thought the proposed project was fun and trendy and
could lead to other buildings having creative architecture along the street. Staff had already
included as a condition that the roof equipment would not be visible and she wanted to ensure
that the equipment would not be visible.
Mr. Oueijan stated with the angle of the roof line the equipment would not be visible.
Committee Member Gladson asked for the treatments of the Spire's sign?
Mr. Oueijan stated the letters would be illuminated and reviewed the drawing with Committee
Member Gladson.
Committee Member McCormack stated in sensing the googie-type architecture they may want to
look at simplifying the current landscape plan and going with a different plant palette.
Committee Member Cathcart stated he concurred that the landscape plan was too busy and
needed to be simplified. He suggested using plantings that were more angular, such as Flax and
Fountain grass -the Ducks practice facility had many of the plants he spoke about.
Committee Member McCormack suggested planting huge dramatic Tree Aloes. He pointed out
areas on the plans that could be simplified and where the focus of the plantings should be. He
suggested simplifying the edges and on the ground plane use bold dramatic lines using colored
plants.
Committee Member Cathcart stated lavender light grass could be used and there were many
plants that could be used to add color.
Committee Member McCormack stated there could be burgundy Flax or plants that carried a
blue color and no flowers. He suggested using plants with dramatic shapes.
Committee Member Cathcart stated they did not have another basic office building and the
landscape should reflect the architecture of the building.
Committee Member Gladson made a motion to approve DRC No. 4242-07 and MNSP No. 0518-
07, Spires Express, with the conditions contained in the Staff Report and to have the final
landscape plans reviewed by the DRC for incorporation of their recommended changes.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 16 of 21
New Agenda Items:
6) DRC No. 4294-07 - COLBURN RESIDENCE
A proposal to expand a second floor dormer (400 sq. ft.) on a 1923 Provincial Revival
residence. Proposal includes the relocation and expansion of a one-car garage (450 sq.
ft.).
205 North Pine Street, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dr~(a~cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Preliminary Review and Comments
Senior Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicants, Steve and Kristi Colburn, address on file, were available for questions.
Mrs. Colburn stated they had lived most of their lives in the City of Orange. They had been part
of the Old Towne area for many years and had a desire to live in Old Towne and own a historic
home. They were working with Jon Califf to make some changes to the home. The interior
stairway was an issue and there was an outside stairway that they planned to take down.
Applicant, Jon Califf, address on file, stated he had some corrections to make. Under project
description on the garage addition, rather than 325 square feet it was actually 451 square feet as
the addition went behind the garage. The proposal stated the garage was moving 20', with the
added square footage the FAR went to .52.
Public Comment
Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated the structure was very unique. The
OTPA was opposed to the project due to the changes to the roof with the added dormer, which
appeared more like a roof addition as it spanned between two gable style dormers. The roof was
a character defining feature. He felt that the proposed project did not meet the Secretary of
Interior's Standards Appendix C or the Design Standards which stated the historic character of
the property shall be retained and removing historic materials shall be avoided, distinctive
features, finishes and construction techniques shall be preserved and exterior additions or related
new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize a property. With the
removal of the existing dormer and the addition of the roof to create more square footage, if
someone wanted to re-create the original roof the materials would not be there. The Design
Standards stated that all work shall comply with the Secretary of Interior Standards and also
stated additions shall be designed and constructed as to not significantly change or destroy the
character defining features of the building. He felt the roof alteration was a significant change.
The OTPA was not opposed to adding living space to attic areas and they would encourage that,
however, the FAR of .52 already exceeded the closest FAR on the block of .41. The garage was
a contributing garage and the addition was a significant change to the garage and the relocation
also changed the site. An alternative might be to reconfigure what was there and removal of the
exterior stair case would be nice. The landscape plan was not consistent with the landscaping
within the Historic District.
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Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 17 of 21
Janet Crenshaw, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated the FAR was too large and
double the average on the street. The plans read remodel and she felt they needed to go back to
the type of a philosophy of restoring not remodeling.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member Cathcart stated he was thrilled to see the proposed removal of the outside
staircase. He asked for clarification on the landscape plans.
Mrs. Colburn stated they were very preliminary plans, primarily conceptual. They wanted to get
further into the project before they finalized the landscaping.
Mr. Colburn stated the landscape architect had referred to historic 1920 period homes and what
that landscape would be. They also wanted to consider drought tolerant plants.
Committee Member McCormack stated there was an existing block wall next to the sidewalk and
he suggested something to soften the wall, such as a hedge or vines, all that would be required
would be 2' of landscape to soften the wall.
Mr. Colburn stated they wanted to increase the height of the wall; in order to do the wall might
necessitate rebuilding.
Mrs. Colburn stated they had reviewed historic photos that had an archway and a solid door
going into the yard.
Mr. Colburn stated the shed roof was not historic it was an addition built in the 1960's.
Mr. Califf stated the apartment was old, the home was built with floor joist and all of the rafters
were finished with lath and plaster it was not a typical attic addition. The kitchenette was added
in the early 40's when the outside staircase was built.
Mr. Colburn stated the interior stairs were unsafe in their current position.
Committee Member Gladson stated it would be ideal to not change a contributing structure and
she would need a very compelling argument and story for the reasons behind making changes to
the home. From a policy perspective and a historical perspective would the changes be
appropriate and how could they achieve the changes without altering the main structure. The
garage was also in question.
Mr. Califf stated Mr. Frankel had quoted from the Secretary of Interior's Standards and he would
quote from the Preservation Briefs which dealt with new exterior additions to historic buildings;
constructing new additions on a secondary side or rear elevation, in addition to material
preservation will also address preservation of the historic character, primarily such placement
will help preserve the historic form and a relationship to its site and setting. Mr. Califf stated the
frame work was that when an addition was being considered the primary elevations; the way the
building was experienced by the public, would be one of the main concerns. They had gone to
the effort to present what would be seen. As one would travel south there would be a view of it
and they tried to explain that. He had made changes to move the wall of the dormer (the addition
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 18 of 21
part upstairs) back an additional foot to diminish the amount of exposed wall. They also dropped
the head down to 7' bringing the roof plane down. The roof steepness would still be perceived
from the original roof. The issue functionally was that the roof was so steep and they had looked
at many ways to gain more head height and useable space. The walk in closets fit within the
existing structure and the existing bathroom was not sufficient for a master bath. The option to
move it was not considered due to the disruption that would be involved to the downstairs area
and would not make sense. To widen the stairs in their current location would not allow them to
keep the cabinets and other features that existed.
Committee Member Gladson stated the existing dormer dated from the 1940's and was there
actual evidence of that being a newer feature?
Mr. Califf stated it was evident that it was a new feature as the construction was the same as the
construction found in the kitchenette.
Mr. Califf stated the area was a very interesting space, however, there was no head room
provided in that space.
Chair Wheeler stated on the second story wall it would be adding a new element that had not
existed and adding another dormer on the other side could be an option.
Mr. Califf stated the roof was so steep the dormer could not be made wide enough to make it
useful.
Chair Wheeler suggested using a Shed dormer rather than a Gable dormer.
Mr. Califf stated they had discussed that, while they could use a Shed dormer and make the
bathroom construction possible, it would leave a valley and not allow access from the stairway.
They needed headroom primarily in a specific area which he was pointing out on the plans. He
reviewed the specifics of the problems they had encountered with the Committee while pointing
out the areas he spoke about on the plans.
Chair Wheeler asked if they had considered flipping the stairs.
Mr. Califf stated they had produced a plan to incorporate that, however, there was abuilt-in that
fit in that area and they would not want to disrupt that part of the home.
Chair Wheeler stated the new element was visible and the home was on a corner lot.
Mr. Colburn stated the home directly across the street was larger than what they had proposed.
Chair Wheeler stated on the garage as they would be adding to the existing garage on the same
plane that would require a line of demarcation. The drawing showed several pitches for the
jerkin heads which were consistent on the house; and he felt the garage should be consistent
within itself.
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Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 19 of 21
Mr. Califf stated the slope on the front of the house was different than the slope on the back of
the house and it was decided that all the roof areas had met and that was the reason for the
inconsistency on the house. They would make them more consistent to each other on the garage.
Chair Wheeler stated he had no objection on the way they proposed to move the gable; they
would be using the same form and pushing it up.
Mr. Ryan asked if Chair Wheeler thought the dormer should float and not be connected to the
sides?
Chair Wheeler stated "yes"; he thought the dormer should float. As there was a shed roof
dormer there now and a bigger shed roof dormer proposed it would add some historical
relationship.
Committee Member Cathcart stated he would be interested in when the additional dormer was
added, as it would validate the argument that there would not be disruption of a historic structure.
Mr. Califf stated there was an indication that there was a closet door that was dated 1940 and that
also would date the kitchenette. They were unable to date the fixtures in the bathrooms as they
had been updated to fiberglass and more modern materials.
Committee Member Gladson stated she would not be surprised if there were not permits or
records available for the additions. She was also in agreement to remove the outside staircase.
Mr. Califf stated the idea was to remove the stairs and leave the informal outside deck.
Chair Wheeler suggested using a different type of knee brace on the deck, something a bit more
fun.
Committee Member McCormack stated he agreed with the staircase and that the deck was fine
and agreed that adding more detail would be a good idea. He suggested a sleeping porch without
a roof or something similar to one.
Committee Member Gladson stated it may not go with the time period.
Mr. Colburn stated a two car garage was an important feature to them as he wanted to garage his
vehicle.
Committee Member Gladson stated she was having a struggle with the idea of moving the
garage.
Mr. Colburn stated the garage had quite a bit of termite damage and being able to move it would
allow them the opportunity to replace much of the damaged materials.
Chair Wheeler stated they had given a variety of recommendations to the applicants and asked if
there was any further clarification needed?
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Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 20 of 21
The applicants stated they had notes on what the Committee Members were suggesting.
Chair Wheeler stated the proposed project was presented for preliminary review and a motion
was not required.
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Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008
Page 21 of 21
ADJOURNMENT:
A motion was made by Committee Member Cathcart to adjourn to the next regular scheduled
meeting on Wednesday, June 18, 2008. The meeting adjourned at 8:46 p.m.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED.