05-19-2004 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES
May 19, 2004
Committee Members Present: Jon Califf
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett (Chair)
Donnie Dewees
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Dan Ryan, Senior Historic Planner
Committee Member Absent: None
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The committee met for an administrative session beginning at 5:00 p.m. The meeting adjourned
at 8:15 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
A motion was made by Committee Member Jon Califf to approve the April 7, 2004 minutes
subject to the following corrections:
DRC 3873-03 Nextel Communications pale 4 paragraph 1 sentence 3 amended as follows:
It was suggested that the €aCik~y facade should match i~ the color, and texture, and "age" to of
the existing building.
DRC 3900-04 John Wolberg, page 9 paragraph 2, sentence 4 amended as follows:
Also, Craig Wheeler suggested that the applicant might consider somehow shielding the new
dwelling on the north side of the building by °H eliminating an upper-floor window where
it looks down on an auto yard in the adjacent property.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2004
Page 2
DRC No. 3858-03 TRAMMELL CROW RESIDENTIAL
Final landscape and roof plans for a proposed mixed-use development consisting of 279
apartment units constructed around a parking structure, 4,200 sq. ft. of general retail
space, and a 4,000 sq. ft. leasing office.
3091 West Chapman Avenue (NEC Chapman Ave & Rampart St.)
Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Chuck Lau, Associate Planner, gave an overview of the project. He explained that it was a final
determination on the Final Landscape Plan. He reminded the Committee that one of the
Conditions of Approval on the overall project was that the DRC approve the Final Landscape
Plan. Of particular concern, at the last meeting, was how the roof equipment was going to be
screened, particularly since the I-5 Freeway went next to the project. He said that staff felt that
the equipment would be adequately shielded from view of the I-5 freeway due to the height of
the building and by the parapet wall that will screen the air conditioning equipment (which has
been placed in the center of the building). He also noted that it was important that the project
continue the row of palm trees currently on Chapman Avenue, and that the City has decided to
include the 20' Queen Palm trees along Chapman spaced 20 feet apart, and the City's tree
supervisor recommended the use of Pink Trumpet Trees along the Rampart Street frontage.
Staff has reviewed the plant palette and compared it with the adjoining property. The major
concern was continuity between this project and the BRE project next door. The spacing and
types of trees along the street would be the same, and the two landscape architects had met to
ensure that their plans were similar and cohesive.
Brad Perozzi, of Trammell Crow Residential, reiterated that the two concerns from the last DRC
meeting (which were also passed along to the Planning Commission) were (1) screening the roof
equipment, and (2) compatibility of design between this project and the adjacent BRE project.
Craig Wheeler stated that he felt that because the architecture of the two buildings was so
different, it was important that the landscape design bring continuity to both projects. There was
no further discussion by the Committee, as they felt their previous concerns had been addressed.
A motion was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to approve the project as submitted.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2004
Page 3
2. DRC No. 3903-04 -CENTURY AMERICAN
Remodeling of an existing 2-story medical office building.
1110 E. Chapman Avenue
Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Chuck Lau, Associate Planner, introduced this item. He noted that it was formerly known as The
Summit Building, a wood frame/stucco building. The owners of the building wanted to give it
an updated look. Jim Dietz and Jeff Moore represented Century American, and Bill Cathcart
attended for Architects Orange, the architects of the new design. There was no additional public
participation by anyone in the audience.
Staff felt that the design was an improvement, and that the color scheme, rather than just the
monotone beige as it currently exists, had a palette that utilized different color shades.
Additionally, there was stonework being added to the base, along with new landscape detail. A
number of mature trees, along the west property line, would be kept. Bill Cathcart noted that
they would be using interlocking pavers for the handicapped parking spaces. These were not
noted on the plans, as they were unsure where they would be at the time the plans were drawn.
The committee felt that using the pavers gave a stronger sense of the entrance to the building.
Building signage is still yet to be determined.
Joe Woolett expressed reservations to the new design, stating that this is a neighborhood
professional building, and it introduces acommercial/industrial park look to what is currently a
neighborhood near the historic Orange district. He stated that he wished they could have
designed it without the foam core cornices. Craig Wheeler stated that he felt the building is
incompatible with the neighborhood as it is. He compared it to the types of new offices that are
being built along Main Street.
A motion was made by Committee Member Craig Wheeler to approve the project subject to the
following conditions:
1. Applicant to make effort to study de-commercializing the building as much as possible so
that it is more compatible with the surrounding neighborhood.
SECOND: Jon Califf
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2004
Page 4
3. DRC No.3906-04 - BOWBEER AND READ RESIDENCE
Install multiple roof dormers on a Hip Roofed Cottage.
368 S. Grand Street, within the Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner-Historic Preservation
DRC Action: Final Determination
The project was introduced by Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner, Historic Preservation. Edith Read,
the homeowner, was present and was accompanied by Jack McGee. The home was described as
a 1904 Hip Roofed Cottage. The applicants proposed to convert an attic space for an office and
bathroom, rather than add on to the rear of their residence. At issue is how to keep the hip roof
shape, while adding full height dormers that are required for habitable space. The elevation
drawings of the existing dormers and their position on the roof plane are not accurately drawn or
dimensioned. Staff is recommending that they have elevation elevations that have the correct
dimensions showing the height of the existing ridge of the dormers to the ridgeline and actual
placement on the roof. Jack McGee explained that head clearance would not be higher than 6
feet, but the intent was to get air and light into this space, without adding square footage. He
also noted that he had read staff's concern in the Staff Report, and they were addressing those.
He said they were hopeful that the conceptual drawings would get approval so they could
progress to getting the detailed drawings completed and continue to the final design phase.
Janet Crenshaw and Jeff Frankel represented OTPA. Jeff Frankel stated that the best solution to
add square footage to this type of building was to use existing attic space, if it does not affect the
overall proportions. He did not feel the plans made it clear what was being removed. Janet
Crenshaw felt that the drawings made the dormers look so big that it seemed as if they were
changing the dimensions of the roof.
Craig Wheeler stated that his biggest objection, besides the inaccurate drawings, was adding a
gable that did not balance with the other gable. The house, with the exception of the porch, is a
very simple symmetrical structure, and to impose the large form on the side that wasn't there
before made it out of proportion and balance. He also suggested that before the applicant goes
very far that they check code for height and egress requirements (one of which is 80" of clear
height over the stairs). Donnie Dewees stated that his biggest objection was the inaccurate
drawings. Jon Califf felt that it was important to see the dormer at the right height.
A motion was made by Committee Member Craig Wheeler to continue the project.
SECOND: Jon Califf
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2004
Page 5
4. DRC No.3908-04 -SON LIGHT CHRISTIAN CENTER (Orange Theater)
Marquee sign modifications and request to approve vinyl replacement windows.
172 N. Glassell Street, within the Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner-Historic Preservation
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Craig Wheeler and Joe Woollett recused themselves as their offices are located within 500 feet
of this building. Craig Wheeler left the room, and Joe Woolett stayed so there would be a
quorum. Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner, Historic Preservation gave an overview of the project.
Staff's concerns related to the removal of the character-defining windows and their replacement
with new vinyl windows, and the proposal to introduce modern chase lights and a reflective
ceiling material to the sign in front. Daniel Ryan noted the difficulty in this project, as the
windows had been replaced without review or approval. Staff, following guidelines, is
recommending that the applicant remove all replacement vinyl windows and re-install the
original divided light wood windows that match the historic profile, sash dimension, proportion
and finish as the original period windows. Staff is also recommending that the marquee sign be
repaired and/or stabilized using the same materials, and any modifications be reversible so it
could be restored, if desired, in the future.
Dr. Ralph Duff, the President and Chairman of the Executive Board of Son Light Christian
Center Church, represented the executive board and senior pastor of the church. Mr. Clair
Samhammer, designer, also was present. Dr. Duff explained that he was responsible for
preparing the bid package (after extensive research) and in doing so his concern was for the
safety of the children, as well as to stop massive air conditioning and heating leakages from the
building's original windows. He appealed to the committee to retroactively approve the project.
Nancy Magliato, wife of the pastor, also spoke to the project as the administrative secretary for
the church. She noted that the designer had built a mock up for the design of the building and
it's marquee, and invited the committee members to come view it. She stated that in order to
incorporate the new marquee, the large cross at the front of the building needed to be removed,
as well as replacing the front windows which they had repeatedly tried to repair (unsuccessfully)
over the years which were damaged by wood rot. One window had completely fallen out. She
mistakenly stated that the building was not listed as a historical building, and this fact was
corrected later by Jeff Frankel of the OTPA, stating that the building was, indeed, a contributing
structure listed on the national Register of Historic Buildings, and the vinyl windows should be
removed and replaced with the repaired wooden windows. Mrs. Magliato stated that the new
windows could not be removed, they were epoxied in place, and to remove them would not only
cause a hardship on their budget, but would also damage the structure of the building. Mr.
Frankel stated that it was possible to dissolve the epoxy. Mrs. Magliato stated that she utilized
historic photos of the building to work with the designer to replicate what had originally been on
the building. She stated that she was very open to doing anything they could to the new
windows (she suggested adding wood strips to the grid on the windows to better simulate the
older windows), rather than tearing out the new windows altogether.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2004
Page 6
Jeff Frankel stated that tempered glass was available that replicated the reflectivity of the older
windows. He questioned why they didn't bother to go to the city for permits when they realized
how extensive this replacement would be. Janet Crenshaw, also representing OTPA, questioned
the proposed chase lights in the serpentine pattern of the marquee, and agreed that the sign
should not be altered in any way that it could not be restored to its original condition.
Shawn Howell, 385 S. Glassell, Orange, also spoke regarding the marquee sign, questioned
whether the modifications would be such that it could not be put back to its original condition.
Dr. Duff noted that the original signage was made of steel and had been impacted over the years
by vehicle accidents, etc.; the proposal is to face it with 1/16" anodized aluminum (which was
the recommendation of several of the sign makers brought into the project for discussion and
bidding).
Dan Ryan, noting the magnitude of this project and the concern on everyone's part, suggested
that one of the recommendations that staff could make to the DRC would be to arrange a time to
view the marquee model in a site visit to the church as well as to review the windows in person.
Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager, noted that as this DRC meeting had a quorum of
two, both committee members could not visit the site together, as that would be a violation of the
Brown Act (the Brown Act being the rules that govern public meetings). The committee
members would have to meet separately with the staff at Son Light, as this matter could not be
discussed outside the parameters of this meeting. Jon Califf asked for clarification as to whether
it was a Brown Act violation to go on the site visit as the same time as staff, and was told it was
not. She noted that, during the site visit, it was important that the DRC members not give any
indication on which way they were prepared to vote. The site visit is solely to obtain information
so that an informed decision can be made.
Jeff Frankel asked for clarification as to whether this project would be required to go before the
Planning Commission, noting that it fell into the area of significant changes to the outside of an
historic building. Dan Ryan confirmed that it would go to the Planning Commission, so this
would not be a final determination.
A motion was made by Committee Member Jon Califf to continue the project.
SECOND: Donnie Dewees
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: Joe Woollett, Craig Wheeler
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2004
Page 7
5. DRC No. 3913-04 -THE GARDEN GALLERY
New entry gate for a plant nursery.
403 W. Chapman Avenue (within the Old Towne Historic District)
Staff Contact: Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Chris Carnes, Senior Planner, introduced the item. George Zweigle, the applicant, was also
present. Janet Crenshaw and Jeff Frankel represented OTPA.
The applicant proposed to construct a new entry gate for a plant nursery, located on the north
side of Chapman Avenue between Atchison Street and Cypress Street. The plans for signing
have not yet been developed. Final signage plans will be reviewed by the DRC. There is no
proposal for permanent landscaping because the open area of the site will be used for plant
display for the nursery business.
Joe Woolett asked for clarification as to whether this property was on the same parcel of land as
the brick building to the east. He stated that he asked this question because the guidelines were
clear as to how the gate and building should relate if they were on the same parcel. Chris Carnes
stated that it was not, it was on a separate parcel. Joe Woolett stated that there was no
permanent structure, the gate and fencing were landscape elements. He stated that he was
making this determination in order to ensure what the DRC had jurisdiction over. Chris Carnes
stated that it was mainly to review the entry gate, which is considered a permanent structure
because permits had to be obtained and it was an overhead structure.
Craig Wheeler asked whether the footings were going to be pre-cast columns. The applicant
stated that he'd like to have some latitude on that decision, whether to use pre-cast columns or
the more traditional wood.
Janet Crenshaw asked whether they would be selling plants at the site, and the applicant stated
that while they would be selling plants, that is not their primary goal which is to be a landscape
design firm, handling design, installation and project management. Jeff Frankel stated that he
believed the Craftsman style was more residential, not sure whether it was appropriate for the
area where this is being proposed, which is close to a commercial building. He also wondered
whether the stone being proposed was cultured or real. The applicant stated it was real.
Donnie Dewees and Craig Wheeler both felt it was impossible to make a determination as there
were no true designs or drawings to review. The applicant, in wanting to move forward on this
project, agreed that he would comply with whatever dimensions, etc., required by the DRC in the
Conditions of Approval.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 19, 2004
Page 8
A motion was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to approve the project subject to the
following conditions:
1. Entry arbor and columns are to be 9' tall and 38" across base and 24" square at top.
2. Constructed, as proposed, out of stone clinker brick.
3. Top portion slightly larger across top.
4. The beam across the top actually should be 2 beams, and be 6 x 14 with end detail
similar to Gambel House.
5. Cross pieces to be flying cloud pattern.
6. End section approximately 6 x 10 to achieve cloud form
7. Entry gate is to be constructed of decorative iron, wrought in Craftsman motif.
8. Corners of wood members are to be eased/rounded.
SECOND:Craig Wheeler
AYES:Jon Califf, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:Donnie Dewees
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
N:\C D D\P L N G\Council Commissions Committees\DRC 5-19-04 .DOC