04-02-2008 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES -FINAL
2 Apri12008
Committee Members Present: Bill Cathcart
Adrienne Gladson
Tim McCormack
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: None
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Gary Sheatz, Assistant City Attorney
Doris Nguyen, Associate Planner
Dan Ryan, Senior Planner Historic Preservation
Howard Morris, Senior Landscape Coordinator
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an Administrative Session beginning at 5:15 p.m.
Chair Wheeler opened the Administrative Session with a review of the Agenda. He stated he
would be recused from Item No. 7, as he had worked on the project as the architect on a previous
addition to the property. Committee Member Cathcart stated he would be recused from Item No.
3, as he was the landscape architect for the project. There were no changes to the Agenda.
The Committee reviewed the minutes and changes were noted.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:32 p.m.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
Page 2 of 21
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
The meeting adjourned at approximately 8:26 p.m. to the next regular scheduled meeting on
Wednesday, April 16, 2008.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
No public attendees addressed the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the
Agenda.
CONSENT ITEMS:
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate
discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the
public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action.
1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: (a) MARCH 5, 2008 and (b) MARCH 19, 2008
Committee Member Cathcart made a motion to approve the March 5, 2008 and March 19, 2008
minutes with changes as noted.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
Page 3 of 21
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items: None
New Agenda Items:
2) DRC No. 4290-07 - GLOS RESIDENCE (PLAN REVISION)
Minor design and elevation revisions to a rear porch addition on a contributing Hip
Roofed Cottage residence. Project was previously recommended by the DRC on
November 7, 2007 and approved by the Planning Commission on December 17, 2007.
816 E. Culver Avenue, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan(a~1cit o~ge.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Senior Planner, Dan Ryan, gave a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Chris Glos, address on file, stated they had changed the plans, per recommendations they had
received, to go with a smaller porch. The stairs and mudroom were shifted, which made the
three kitchen windows more symmetrical from the outside of the property.
Public Comment
Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated he was in support of the project and
it was a sympathetic addition to the structure.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee. There was none.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve, DRC No. 4290-07, Glos Residence
Plan Revision), as presented.
SECOND: Adrienne Gladson
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Bill Cathcart, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 4 of 21
3) DRC No. 4299-07 -CITRUS GROVE APARTMENTS
A proposal to demolish a RV/Boat storage facility and construct 57 affordable
apartments with a community room, tot lot, and surface parking.
1120 N. Lemon Street
Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714-744-7223, dnguyen a,cityoforan e.org
DRC Action: Preliminary Review
Committee Member Cathcart stated he would be recused from the item, as he was the landscape
architect for the project.
Associate Planner, Doris Nguyen, provided a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Todd Cottle, address on file, stated his firm had been involved with affordable
housing for over 18 years in the City of Orange. They had completed new construction,
acquisition rehabs, and they were involved with the City Redevelopment Agency.
Applicant, Barry Adnams, address on file, stated he was available to answer questions.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member Gladson asked for details on the Lawson family trust?
Mr. Cottle stated the Lawson family owned the property for a number of years. They owned two
R.V. storage lots in Orange and his firm was currently in escrow to purchase the property at 1120
N. Lemon Street from the Lawson family for the proposed project. Upon approval from the City
of Orange the property purchase would be completed.
Chair Wheeler stated he had a personal aversion to tall, thin stacks of stone and suggested taking
the same amount of stone and placing it in larger masses in a heavy band at the entry.
Mr. Adnams asked if Chair Wheeler was opposed to the use of stone on the deck areas?
Chair Wheeler stated it would look better as individual mass elements. He also suggested when
submitting reduced scale plans that a graphic scale be included.
Committee Member Woollett stated his issue was primarily a planning issue, which allowed a
residential development in an industrial area. He felt the exterior of the building was articulated
quite well and felt the project was going in the right direction. The building emphasized the
landscaping and provided good shapes and shadows.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 5 of 21
Ms. Nguyen stated the Staff Review Committee (SRC) requested that the massing on Lemon
Street be lowered on building A. The first two buildings would be 2-story, with a 3-story
building behind those. She asked if the Committee had any aversion to having all the buildings
be 3-story?
Committee Member Woollett stated he would not like to see all the buildings 3-story and Chair
Wheeler stated the 2-story with one 3-story building was a better solution.
Committee Member Woollett stated he agreed with Chair Wheeler's suggestion on the stone
configuration, as stacking of the stone gave the appearance of adding more height to the design,
which was not needed.
Chair Wheeler asked if flat-tile roof would be more cost effective?
Committee Member McCormack stated what he had reviewed in the plans and read in the Staff
Report that the proposed project was an example of what the City was focusing on. He looked at
the proposed project as a potential LEED situation. He suggested flipping the building, to
provide tree coverage on the south side of the property to allow shading of the 3-story units.
With affordable housing, typically, there would need to be lower costs associated with A/C units
and allowing the trees to shade the units would be cost effective for the residents. He suggested
with affordable housing and the aging population there should be consideration for a building
with elevator access.
Mr. Cottle stated they worked on senior affordable housing as well, and the proposed project was
designed for family use.
Committee Member McCormack stated there were families that may need handicap access and
the design should include at least one building with elevator access to allow the affordability of
the units to cover a larger population. He asked how the project was drained?
Mr. Cottle stated there were Filterra units located toward the rear of the site that connected to an
existing storm drain. The water would drain through bioswale located throughout the property on
the north and south.
Committee Member McCormack suggested in an area along the west side of the proposed
project to add more generous landscaping and the possibility of moving the units back with some
sloping on the landscape to discourage people from congregating in the area.
Mr. Cottle stated they had reviewed that area; there was an active rail line that ran next to the
project and as a part of mitigation they needed to maintain a specific distance from the rail line.
Committee Member McCormack stated one LEED point was not to over park the site; in
reviewing the plans the site was four over. Another way to set an example would be to use the
four parking stalls as an opportunity to plant another tree to provide more shade.
Ms. Nguyen stated with multi-family housing, and especially with affordable housing, it was
important to the City that there was adequate parking on site. Many times there were multiple
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 6 of 21
adults within a unit, which would mean multiple cars. There would be street parking; however,
they wanted to ensure adequate parking on site.
Committee Member McCormack stated they needed to weigh what was more important and if
the project was setting the example not to over park by four.
Committee Member Gladson suggested that upon return of the project to the DRC, if the
applicant would be seeking LEED certification they could provide that information. The
applicant may not be choosing to seek LEED certification.
Committee Member McCormack stated the applicant could be encouraged to seek LEED
certification, not as an economic hardship, but to explore the option as the project would be
setting an example. He stated he had no authority to enforce LEED certification.
Committee Member Gladson stated there were other programs available that could be explored.
Committee Member McCormack made the following suggestions: Replace the Magnolia tree
with something slightly larger, such as the Majestic Beauty. In the shrub section, to add a
screening shrub for edges and trash areas and the ground cover should be a variety that would
lend itself to the transition between sun and shade areas of the project. Upsize half of the 24"
box trees to 36" box trees to give immediate shade. He asked for clarification on the open
stairwell on the east elevation of building A and an opening (which he pointed out on the plans)
on unit B?
Mr. Adnams stated it was not a stairwell; instead, it was part of the siding. On unit B, the
opening would be used for a storage facility, to be used by maintenance personnel for the site.
Committee Member McCormack pointed out an area on the plan that included handicapped
parking and suggested the spaces be located in front of the unit.
Mr. Adnams stated they had a challenge in aligning the handicapped parking spaces due to the
width requirements and had located them accordingly in the current proposed location; however,
they could rework it to have it closer to the units.
Committee Member Gladson felt the project would be setting the bar for future developments in
the neighborhood. She suggested the use of high quality materials and finishes; materials that
would still look good in 20 years.
Mr. Cottle stated the goal was to make the proposed project look as good as possible and to
choose materials and finishes that would stand the test of time. There would be multiple families
utilizing the units over a period of time and they took the wear and tear issue into consideration
when choosing materials. He stated they took a lot of time and attention in choosing materials
that would last and still look good 15 years later.
Committee Member Gladson stated as an example to the level of workmanship, items such as
hand-toweled finishes could be used on the exterior. In looking at final details, she suggested the
use of the or other finishes. She also suggested the need for personal storage space for the
residents who would likely have bikes and prefer not to have them stored in carports.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 7 of 21
Ms. Nguyen stated there would be storage spaces included as well as areas for bike parking.
Committee Member Woollett asked if they had considered the use of solar hot water units and
heating panels?
Mr. Cottle stated they were looking at the use of solar heating on another project and the cost
benefit to use solar panels. The use of solar heating also involved obtaining information for
energy efficiency funding.
Committee Member Woollett stated he understood the costs involved in using solar hot water
heating and the potential for energy rebates needing to be explored.
Committee Member McCormack stated Southern California Edison (SCE) embarked on a
program involving the use of solar hot water heating on industrial buildings and suggested the
applicant contact SCE for the possibility of including affordable housing units into their
program.
Committee Member Woollett stated carports, which were a lighter more open structure, could be
used to incorporate solar panels in their design. He stated on family projects the landscape had
special needs as there would be more wear and tear in those areas and suggested the use of
durable landscape choices as the project moved forward.
Committee Member McCormack suggested the use of artificial turf.
Mr. Cottle stated they encountered problems in the use of artificial turf with spillage, gum and
the general wear and tear of the artificial materials. It was not lasting as they had anticipated.
They would be exploring the use of more durable landscape materials with time for the
landscape areas to be planted and mature prior to the units being occupied.
Committee Member Woollett stated there was a high percentage of asphalt on the project and he
suggested they explore other materials that could be used.
Mr. Cottle stated they would be working with a civil engineer to explore those options.
Committee Member McCormack suggested the civil engineer look at the positioning of speed
bumps in reference to handicapped parking and the project drainage.
Committee Member Gladson suggested the addition of adult amenities, such as benches and
barbeques.
Mr. Cottle stated the proposed project had the tot lot located near the laundry facilities and the
community room.
Chair Wheeler asked for information on the carports?
Mr, Adnams stated the proposed project called for carports with flat roofs and steel columns.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
Page 8 of 21
Committee Member McCormack stated that there were many areas to explore as setting an
example for future projects.
Chair Wheeler stated a motion was not needed as the project had been presented for preliminary
review and he asked the applicant if they had any further questions or needed clarification on any
of the suggestions given?
Mr. Cottle thanked the Committee Members for their insight and suggestions that would be
incorporated into their project.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
Page 9 of 21
4) DRC No. 4321-08 - STRATOULY RESIDENCE
A proposal to expand asecond-floor, including new dormers, on a 1-1/2 story 1937
contributing Provincial Revival residence.
183 S. Waverly Street, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan cr,cit, o~ge.org
DRC Action: Preliminary Review
Senior Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Andrew Bower, address on file, stated he had a concern with the Staff suggestion for
keeping within the same roof structure, with the existing 7' 6" dimension it was not feasible. To
maximize the dormers they would not be able to obtain the desired roof pitch. Unless they were
allowed to raise the ridge beam a fair amount it was not feasible to do anything on the second
floor. He stated the Staff Report noted there appeared to be 8'of vaulted ceiling height above the
second floor ceiling and that was not correct. There was approximately 4' 6" of height above the
second floor ceiling in order to keep a consistent roof pitch. He also wanted to maintain the
existing eave line. There was also a concern about changing from a shed dormer to a gable
dormer on one of the elevations; it had been done to add more of a picturesque style aesthetically
and he felt the gable worked better and a more interesting design.
Public Comment
Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated there was an improvement from the
last submission. He felt the bulk and mass was still out of line, as well as the height. The
massing and scale were not consistent and compatible for the block. The proposed project did
not meet the design standards, as new additions and construction shall be undertaken in such a
manner that the building would be unimpaired, and in changing the whole roof structure and
tearing the rear roof off would not meet that design standard. If living space could not be
created within the building itself maybe there was not a project there. The standards stated, in
reference to the roof removal, removing historic fabric or character-defining features shall be
avoided. The roof was acharacter-defining feature. On a positive note, they were pleased that
the garage would remain; however, the project was out of context with the streetscape and they
wanted to encourage the exploration of a more compatible design.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee. He asked what the pitch of the
rear roof was?
Mr. Bower stated he thought the existing roof was 5:12.
Chair Wheeler stated if it was as steep as 10:12 they could explore occupying the existing attic
without raising the roof. The challenge would be locating the stairs in the middle of the
structure.
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Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 10 of 21
Mr. Bower stated he had not completed any field measurements and was basing his design on the
information received from the property owner. The measurement from the existing ridge to the
top of the ceiling joist was only 7' 6", and from the photos showed a fairly gentle slope. Placing
the stairs in the middle of the structure would create disruption in the design.
Chair Wheeler stated he was opposed to raising the roof as so much of the historic fabric would
be lost.
Applicant, Vasi Stratouly, address on file, stated the attic was very low and if you walked two
feet to the right you would hit your head.
Applicant, Brian Stratouly, address on file, stated the measurements at the highest point was 7'
6".
Chair Wheeler stated that some of the headroom requirements, which fell under the historic
building code, would not be the same for a conventional structure.
Committee Member Gladson stated she suggested they look into retaining the existing roof, as
she would hate to see the loss of historic fabric and character.
Mr. Bowers asked if they were to look at just doing something at the rear of the house (new
construction) would the height element present a problem?
Chair Wheeler stated they encouraged raised wood floor additions to raised wood floor houses,
but they could explore a slab floor that would give them another 18' in height and still be able to
match the roof height. He also suggested that there should be more information given on
window trim, window type, and rafter tails and that the details should match the existing
structure.
Committee Member Gladson asked for information on the previous owners of the home?
Mr. Stratouly stated the home was owned by a single woman who passed away in the late 70's.
The home was left to the church. The church used it as a rental unit. It was sold two more times.
He purchased the home in 1989, prior to the home being listed as a historic home. With
substandard lot size there was an alley in the back that the City blocked off to build more houses.
His home had one of the smaller lots. There were other 2-story homes on the block.
Committee Member Woollett stated in adding on to the back of the home they would be losing
the backyard.
Mr. Stratouly stated that was a huge issue and they did not want to lose backyard space.
Chair Wheeler stated he agreed with the Staff Report that a collection of different shapes and
styles of dormers were not appropriate, and suggested the use of one consistent style.
Committee Member Woollett stated he had looked around the neighborhood and there were
some 2-story buildings located there. He felt the time had come for the need to survey the
building very carefully as every inch of the building counted. He was not insistent on the
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
Page 11 of 21
maintenance of the roof height; however, great care needed to be taken if they were to go above
it. It was difficult to give direction on the project, as it would not be changing the front of the
structure, but moving the back and the City allowed for that to happen. It was a subjective issue.
He felt the applicant could consider some of the suggestions made by Chair Wheeler in obtaining
what they wanted in a more modest way.
Chair Wheeler stated they could be creative with the Title 24 requirement, as R-30 insulation. It
could be spread out over an area. In some areas the use of 2 x 4's could balance out the design.
Mrs. Stratouly stated they wanted to keep the quaintness of the structure; however, at the same
time they wanted to get direction on how to obtain more space. It was a very tight space. They
did not want to leave the neighborhood. It was a very safe and friendly neighborhood.
Chair Wheeler stated they needed to explore all of their options, including the possibility of an
addition to the back.
Mr. Bowers stated the yard was a big consideration.
Committee Member McCormack concurred with the comments regarding the mass issue.
Chair Wheeler stated a motion was not required on the proposed project and thanked the
applicant for bringing their project forward.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
Page 12 of 21
5) DRC No. 4325-08 - ELLIOTT RESIDENCE
A proposal to add a 564 sq. ft. addition to the rear of an existing 1,285 sq. ft.
contributing residence.
504 E. Washington Avenue, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan(a,cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Senior Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicants, Ron and Margaret Elliott, address on file, were present to answer questions. Mrs.
Elliott stated that Staff had mentioned a wheelchair lift in their report and it was not an item that
they had planned for. They would be considering a wheelchair ramp in the future and the
window at the southeast corner of the property was not an original window.
Mr. Elliott stated the project called for French doors; however, he wanted sliding doors that
would allow for ease of access. These were the doors on the west side of the property.
Public Comment
Janet Crenshaw, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated she understood the reasons for
the room addition. She felt the FAR was enormous. She complimented the applicant for putting
in wood windows and like materials.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member Woollett stated the relationship of the area of the house to the area of the lot
seemed high. Based on the Staff Report the project was consistent with the neighbor.
Committee Member Cathcart stated he agreed with Committee Member Woollett due to the fact
that the property was on a corner lot.
Chair Wheeler asked if the future wheelchair ramp should be noted on the plans?
Mr. Ryan stated the plans were designed to meet the code to receive a wheelchair ramp at a
future date and would not require subsequent DRC approval if added later.
Chair Wheeler stated the railings appeared to die into the windows and suggested dropping them
down vertically. He stated if the doors were changed to sliding doors, they could have sliding
French doors that would keep a similar design.
The Committee Members reviewed the plans. Chair Wheeler stated as the stoop was 30" it did
not require a railing. He asked if the applicant had looked in the attic to see if the chimney was
tied into an old stove?
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Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
Page 13 of 21
Mr. Elliott stated the only thing that existed was the fireplace.
Committee Member McCormack asked, in looking at the elevation, he wanted clarification how
the roof tied in?
Chair Wheeler stated it was a California gable framed on top of the existing roof. The ridge of
the new hip ran all the way back and died into the existing hip plane; it was stepped back a foot
with a valley flashing between the connection.
Mr. Ryan clarified that it was the line of demarcation between the old and the new.
Committee Member McCormack asked how the relocation of the basement access would work?
Mr. Ryan stated it was not uncommon to have a floor hatch incorporated into the addition. There
would be an accessible hatch cover that was outlined on page A2-l.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to recommend to the Planning Commission, DRC
No. 4325-08, Elliott Residence, with the following recommendations:
1. Change the west facing doors to sliding French doors.
2. Automatic irrigation system to be added to any new landscaping.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 14 of 21
6) DRC No. 4329-08 - HEIMAN RESIDENCE
A proposal to use alternate materials (brick for concrete flat work) for a proposed
landscape plan on a contributing residence.
406 S. Center Street, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan cr,cityoforan~g
DRC Action: Final Determination
Senior Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Rory Heiman, address on file, stated he had come up with the design by literally
walking the neighborhood and looking at similar houses to see what had been done. There were
existing pathways that come from the corners to the front door (he reviewed photos with the
Committee Members). He stated he wanted to match existing brick.
Public Comment
Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated that although they encouraged
landscaping projects, there was an issue with the use of brick for the walkways. On other
projects where the original material was concrete, brick was discouraged. The Staff Report
stated the brick would match the porch treatment. The porch treatment was inappropriate and
would not have been allowed. He felt the project should follow recommendations of the
Secretary of Interior's Standards in keeping the original material for hardscape. He appreciated
the applicant coming forward with his landscape plans.
Chair Wheeler opened the item to discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member McCormack stated used brick was available when the house was built; it
presented a dilemma as both materials existed historically. Unless a historical setting was being
created, then the use of used brick could be allowed. If the applicant was using manufactured
brick it would certainly make a difference; however, in using historic used brick it was
appropriate. Used brick had been one of the materials chosen for the library and related to the
historic fabric.
Mr. Heiman stated he had visited brickyards and he found used brick.
Committee Member McCormack stated he was not sure why the applicant wanted to remove the
concrete as it looked to be in good condition and it might be advisable to keep the concrete
walkway. The assortment of plants would require a lot of maintenance.
Mr. Heiman stated he had a background in Viniculture and Agrology from UC Davis; he had a
farming background and was looking forward to the maintenance.
Committee Member McCormack suggested to keep the existing concrete, in order to save
money. The Fruitless Olive tree 24" box would be very small at planting.
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Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
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Chair Wheeler stated there was no code requirement for residential landscape design.
Committee Member Cathcart stated he concurred with Committee Member McCormack
regarding the use of brick or concrete. He was concerned with the design of an English Garden
and he would lean towards keeping the concrete walkway as it fit the concept of the clipped
hedge. He suggested on the addition of a curved linear walkway along the side of the house to
add some type of demarcation such as a fence. He also agreed that a larger tree should be used.
The Crape Myrtle was susceptible to mold and he suggested the use of an Indian variety.
Committee Member McCormack suggested the use of architecturally designed potted plants as
focal points in the landscape design.
Committee Member Woollett stated the applicant had the opportunity to make the most of a
house that sat on a corner and had virtually all of its historic qualities. He suggested the
reinforcement of those historic qualities. He would not put in a curving brick front entry as it
was not in accordance with the historic period and he suggested keeping the concrete walkway.
The steps could be replaced with wood steps, which would have been the original material on the
house. He was in favor of the landscaping design.
Chair Wheeler stated he was not comfortable with the addition of a brick walkway and the
original concrete walkway was perfect. He did not know if the original steps were wood or
concrete.
Mr. Heiman stated there was a home on the street that was the same as his that had concrete
steps.
Chair Wheeler stated the brick steps looked artificial. He suggested if brick was used to use a
concrete walkway with brick on the sides. He was pleased with the landscape plans.
Committee Member Gladson made a motion to approve, DRC No. 4329-08, Heiman Residence,
with the following conditions:
1. Maintain the concrete entry as shown in the plans.
2. New concrete would be the same finish/joint pattern to match the original concrete.
3. Curved linear brick area to be constructed behind a fence.
4. Crape Myrtle to be of an Indian variety.
And with the following suggestion:
1. Modify brick steps to their original historic material.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 16 of 21
7) DRC No. 4331-08 - DEVINE RESIDENCE
A proposal to modify anon-contributing accessory structure, including roof form and
siding.
506 E. Almond Avenue, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan(a,cityoforan~g
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Chair Wheeler recused himself from the item, as he was the architect for a previous addition on
the residence.
Senior Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Committee Member McCormack stated the pictures showed concrete steps and asked if the
proposed project called for brick steps?
Applicant, Steve McConnell, address on file, stated there was approximately 25% existing brick,
there was concrete between the house and the garage which necessitated replacement. They had
struggled with whether to replace it with brick or demo the concrete and replace it with concrete.
The proposed project would call for brick.
Public Comment
Janet Crenshaw, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated she was thrilled with the fact that
a change to the property was being made. She had a concern that there was a lot of hardscape
and when the property was viewed from Schaffer the balcony was very visible. She suggested
elimination of the balcony.
Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, applauded the applicant for the proposed
project. Using authentic materials was great. He felt the concrete steps would need to be
retained, unless they were totally deteriorated beyond repair.
Vice-Chair Cathcart opened the item to discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member McCormack stated he felt the applicant had done a good job with their
design. He asked how they proposed to handle the notch, where the first floor stuck out over the
first floor?
Mr. McConnell stated the deck would come out and he felt that would handle the overhang.
The Committee Members reviewed the plans with the applicants.
Mr. McConnell stated the cantilever could not be seen from Schaffer, the deck would come off
of the back side with a concrete supporting wall. The structure had not changed; they would be
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 17 of 21
changing the stucco to clapboard siding and adding the deck. He referenced a drawing that
showed the existing structure and the proposed structure.
Committee Member McCormack suggested keeping the existing concrete steps. The busyness of
a brick walkway would detract from the design.
Mr. McConnell stated they would need to replace the cracked concrete. The desire was to
choose one or the other, and they chose brick. With the color scheme of things they proposed to
use an old style brick that would be an enhancement to the overall rich look.
Committee Member McCormack suggested to take the existing block wall out and move it back
to add some landscape, as little as two feet, to add some green to the area. He pointed out the
area he was suggesting on the photos of the property.
Mr. McConnell stated they could add a clinging vine to add green to that area. They had
incorporated a hedge of planting and additional planting along the property. In moving the wall
in, it would take up viable space that had an existing tree and was used for a seating and
barbeque area. He would like to explore the option of adding a clinging vine to the wall.
Committee Member McCormack suggested the applicant explore planting of a clinging vine to
the wall, and to also look at moving the wall in.
Committee Member Cathcart stated he concurred with the addition of vine pockets and was not
sure taking out the wall would help with the secure space that was behind the wall. In taking the
wall out it would open up the property.
Committee Member McCormack stated he was suggesting moving the wall in and not removing
the wall.
Committee Member Woollett stated the balcony was a clever idea and accomplished what they
wanted to do. He questioned how the balcony would be constructed, as he could not tell from
the drawings how the decking would work.
Mr. McConnell stated they had not prepared construction drawings. He needed to meet with his
engineer to finalize the construction plans if he was granted approval. He reviewed the plans
with Committee Member Woollett and pointed out an area where posts would be constructed.
Committee Member Woollett stated he did not have a problem with leaving the existing wall and
adding a vine to it. As the vine would take some time to grow he suggested the use of a stain
that would darken the wall and make it the same hue of the house.
Mr. McConnell stated the proposed project showed that the wall would be painted the same color
as the house.
Committee Member Gladson suggested removal of the windows from the garage door and asked
for ideas on making the balcony mass smaller?
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
Page 18 of 21
Committee Member Woollett stated the balcony was important as it mitigated the cantilever of
the second floor. Once everything was complete it would be in proportion to the rest of the
building.
Vice-Chair Cathcart asked as they were giving a recommendation on the proposed project to the
Planning Commission were they giving final determination on landscaping?
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated it was one application and the entire project
would be a recommendation to the Planning Commission.
Vice-Chair Cathcart stated he felt they had not come to a consensus on the use of brick over
concrete.
Ms. Roseberry stated the Planning Committee would appreciate a clear recommendation.
Committee Member Woollett stated he did not object to the proposed project.
Vice-Chair Cathcart stated he did agree with the addition of vine pockets to the outside of the
wall to soften the design.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to recommend to the Planning Commission, DRC
No. 4331-08, Devine Residence, with the following conditions:
1. The planting scheme include a clinging vine to the existing concrete block wall on the
west side of the property.
2. Automatic irrigation system to be added to any new landscaping.
3. New brick to closely match the existing brick.
SECOND: Adrienne Gladson
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSTAIN:None
ABSENT:None
RECUSED:Craig Wheeler
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for April 2, 2008
Page 19 of 21
8) DRC No. 4333-08 - SANFORD RESIDENCE
A proposal to modify an existing garage, demolish and rebuild a fireplace on a
contributing residence.
420 S. Center Street, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dr~ail ,cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Senior Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Mark Sanford, address on file, stated the original fireplace had separated from the
house. They had a fireplace specialist look at it, the insurance company looked at it and they
decided to take the top piece apart. Upon removal of that, it was found that there was no rebar
holding it together and it fell apart. Sometime in the 60's the original fireplace was wrapped in
brick and the mortar joints were deteriorating. The fireplace was then taken down. It was still
visible on the siding where the original fireplace was and they had matched up the placement to
avoid having to replace the siding. The new fireplace was close to the original. It would have a
zero clearance box and the inside hearth was kept virtually intact. The garage was initially
converted by someone else into a living unit and their intent was to restore it to a garage.
Public Comment
Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated it was nice to have someone
converting a living unit back into a garage and to get cars off of the street. He agreed with
Staffs recommendation to match the mortar joints and brick to the original style of the house.
He also agreed that the garage windows should be wood/double-hung windows.
Janet Crenshaw, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated she was pleased that the fireplace
just had not fallen down and it was actually taken down.
Chair Wheeler opened the item to discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member Woollett stated he concurred with the Staff Report.
Chair Wheeler stated with the fireplace going into the original location there would be minimal
siding to match. As the windows were in anon-contributing structure it may not be appropriate
to require that they be wood.
Mr. Ryan stated it would bring the materials closer to what was required in the Historic District.
Committee Member McCormack asked what the applicant proposed to do with the conduit that
ran along the side of the garage wall?
Mr. Sanford stated that much of the conduit was gone. There was asub-panel that was on the
outside wall that would remain.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 20 of 21
Committee Member McCormack asked if the panel could be inset?
Mr. Sanford stated it could be done if it was required. It was a sub panel and not a meter panel.
He asked if it mattered if there was a window on the east side?
Mr. Ryan stated there was not an issue on an additional window being required.
Chair Wheeler stated he did not feel they could condition a wood window; however, they could
recommend wood windows be installed.
Committee Member Gladson stated there was a recommendation for T111 siding replacement
and was the applicant planning on replacing that?
Mr. Sanford stated it would be cost prohibited to replace all the siding.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve, DRC No. 4333-08, Sanford Residence,
with the following suggestion:
1. The use of wood/double-hung windows to be an option.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for Apri12, 2008
Page 21 of 21
ADJOURNMENT:
A motion was made by Committee Member Cathcart to adjourn to the next regular scheduled
meeting on Wednesday, April 16, 2008.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.