04-01-2009 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES -FINAL
April 1, 2009
Committee Members Present: Bill Cathcart
Adrienne Gladson
Tim McCormack
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: None
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Jennifer Le, Senior Planner
Robert Garcia, Associate Planner
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an Administrative Session beginning at 5:04 p.m.
Chair McCormack opened the Administrative Session with any information from Staff.
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated everything on the Agenda was intended to
remain and there was no policy or procedural information to discuss. Item No. 3 would be a
presentation. Jennifer Le would be available to present the "Orange Goes Green" program.
Senior Planner, Jennifer Le, stated the handout was a slightly modified version of the
presentation that had been given at the Orange Code Academy. The "Orange Goes Green"
program was featured as part of the Academy. She stated she would go through that presentation
and the details of what the "Orange Goes Green" program was specifically, and she would be
available for questions.
Ms. Le stated the Mayor had put forward, in the State of the City last year, a request that directed
the Community Development Department to look into and bring back to Council a program. The
Community Development Staff began gathering context information to form the direction of the
green program and it had to be something that was politically and economically palatable to
everyone and a program that would accomplish the goals that the Mayor had in mind. The main
goal was to provide incentives to the private development community to bring green projects
forward. They spoke a lot about how to accomplish that. She stated she would go through the
context and initial research that had gone into the programs
Ms. Le stated first there was the regulatory context. There were things happening at the State
level with AB32, The Global Warming Solutions Act, the State government had for the first time
acknowledged the green house gas emissions and the climate change issues. There was the need
to have local jurisdictions respond to that, they regulated that through SB97. That particular law
required local jurisdictions to address green house gas emissions and climate change through the
CEQA process. The City had been struggling with how to do that, as much of the science and
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methodology were still developing. The latest State Law, SB375, aimed to reduce green house
gas emissions through addressing vehicle miles traveled was affecting land use decisions.
Everyone was continuing to attempt to figure out what SB375 would actually mean on the
ground. The trend was to press Cities to address environmental issues and green house gas
emissions. In the environmental context they knew that green house gas emissions were
produced by burning of fossil fuels which was done through transportation, energy generation,
and buildings. In Orange, it was abuilt-up community, there was not a big port or anything like
that. The green house gas emissions in Orange were focused on buildings and transportation.
Energy efficiency-wise, buildings accounted for 40% of energy consumption in the United
States, and in Orange the commercial sector accounted for 68% of the energy consumption; the
residential sector at 28%. Much of that energy consumption came from heating and cooling of
homes, and a tight building could not be over emphasized when speaking to energy efficiency.
Lights, electronics, and heating water were the biggest energy consumers.
Ms. Le stated from a water standpoint they connected water and energy efficiency a lot. There
was a tremendous amount of energy that went into transporting and heating water. Orange
received 2/3 of its water from ground water and 1/3 from surface water, which included water
from the Colorado River aqueduct and the State Water project; all which was transported to
Southern California to provide the lifestyle that people had. In Orange the residential sector
consumed more water than the commercial sector and on average they saw 60% of water being
used outdoors to irrigate landscape.
Ms. Le stated air quality and waste reduction were also a focus area for the green program.
Those were less energy efficiency oriented but more transportation issues that effected the green
house emission decisions. There was a waste reduction plan in the City, which achieved 59%
diversion in 2006 and at the same time there was an increase in waste generation consistently
every year. With that in mind there was also a market context to consider. Community
awareness, which was increasing about green issues and environmental awareness in general.
Ms. Le stated she used to get a handful of calls a year about green related issues and currently
she was receiving approximately 10 calls a month; it was definitely something that the residents
of Orange were interested in.
Ms. Le stated there was also a tough economy that had many businesses going green and
wanting to understand the financial incentives on how they could make building upgrades or in
general go green, and to use that as a business strategy or a marketing tool. In some sectors it
was becoming an expectation. People were not willing to pay more for green products but the
expectation of purchasing products that were green was there. Staff gathered all of that
information and the green program began to come into focus. They needed to focus on both
residential and commercial sectors, as well as looking at existing and new developments. New
developments were those projects that were before the City at the time. They focused on those
projects but also on retrofitting existing developments to reduce green house gas emissions.
There were also political and economic factors to consider and they wanted to develop the
program within the context of what was palatable and what could move forward in the current
environment. The first thing they had done was to pull together an inter-departmental team,
which they called the SLICE Team; it had a very clever meaning which she could not remember.
They pulled the team together to guide the formation of the green program and to pursue the
implementation of the program if it was adopted. A stakeholders meeting was held that included
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the Olsen Company, that developed the Depot Walk LEED Certified Development, and a couple
of others that had experience in the process or who had shown interest in pursuing green
projects. What they heard was that they wanted the green program to be flexible, voluntary and
not mandatory, and they thought incentives for businesses or developers who might be on the
fence about going green might push them to pursue a green project. Some businesses were just
oriented that way and others would never consider it either way and the incentives were
important to the business community.
Ms. Le stated for those that had been through the process, they hammered home that deciding
that a project would be green in the very early stages of the project was important. Depot Walk
in particular was an example that had been through the City Planning process and then decided to
do a LEED Certified building and the biggest hurdle was internal on how to revamp their plans
to get that certification. With all of that information, Staff put together the "Orange Goes Green"
program and presented it to the City Council on February 10, 2009 and it was approved. The
program had four components: (1) Public Outreach, (2) Private Development Incentives, (3) City
Facility, and (4) Operations and City Planning and Development Policies.
Public Outreach was to focus on getting the word out to residents and the first way they had done
that was to include the program in the Orange Code Academy and they would also be launching
a website on April 22. The website would be a clearing house for a lot of the context
information, green tips, rebates, and incentive information. There would be a section on what
the City of Orange was doing to help; it detailed all of the programs already in existence. The
second component; City Development Policy, addressed going green at a broader scale with the
comprehensive General Plan Update which was out for public review. The future growth issues
would be addressed in both redevelopment and in-fill development and focusing on areas that
were transit or close to transportation, close to employment, and close to services. They had
done that by providing flexibility in the mixed-use districts. She expected hearings on the
General Plan Update during the summer. Along with that, mixed-use zoning established a 30-60
dwelling unit per acre of density in certain focus areas. Ms. Le stated there were also the
components of zoning code updates, which was originally slated to happen on the heals of the
General Plan, in bad fiscal times, large projects are delayed and it had been pushed off to the
next fiscal year. The City was looking at incorporating greener principals in the development
standards. The last time there was a comprehensive zoning plan update was in 1995. A lot of
the development standards were stale. Some of the things they were doing was putting together
an artificial turf ordinance that was currently going through the process. Staff spoke about
greener projects and the context of the development standards and many times zoning codes
would get in the way of what was attempting to be accomplished; they found that with the
artificial turf ordinance. There were a handful of residents who originally came forward
inquiring whether they could put in artificial turf and the original answer was "No" as the zoning
code would not accommodate it. The codes were currently being revised to allow artificial turf
which applied everywhere, except Old Towne.
Committee Member Gladson asked if that was coming to the DRC for input?
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated she believed it had gone to Planning Commission.
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Chair McCormack stated artificial turf got hot and it needed to be irrigated, it would not save
water. It was not green at all, as it would go to a landfill when it needed to be replaced.
Ms. Le stated she believed the artificial turf ordinance came from residents attending a hearing
and pressing City Council to allow them to use it. It had some green aspects, but not as many as
people thought.
Chair McCormack stated it only had one green aspect, that it would not require fossil fuel to
mow it.
Ms. Le stated maintenance was low and most people would not want to use it for their front
yards, it would be used in low maintenance areas.
Committee Member Cathcart stated with reclaimed water, watering would not be an issue.
Chair McCormack stated he had West Coast Turf prepare a list of why's and do not's of artificial
turf, he had researched it a lot.
Committee Member Gladson stated in Brea they were looking to use it in medians and they had
not told anyone that they could not use it. She felt there was value in looking at all the options
and what was out there.
Ms. Le stated they looked at using a low water plant pallet instead of artificial turf.
Committee Member Cathcart stated using reclaimed water, in areas such as Coachella Valley,
golf courses could be built without using any potable water.
Committee Member Gladson stated that would be in the discussions for the future.
Chair McCormack stated it was like asugar-free cake. He would only recommend artificial turf
for medians and heavily used athletic fields.
Ms. Le stated there was artificial turf at Fred Kelly Stadium.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated Orange Lutheran High also had artificial turf on their athletic field.
Chair McCormack stated it was an energy sink, it required water because it was too hot. It
required less maintenance and the field could be used more.
Committee Member Cathcart stated bacteria and staph infections had to be watched because it
would not go away. When the Rams went to St. Louis they had three players almost die because
they had rug burns and they were passing staph back and forth.
Chair McCormack stated if someone threw up on it or bled on it, it remained there.
Committee Member Gladson stated there may be value in the DRC having some input on the
artificial turf ordinance.
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Ms. Le stated the third component focused on City Buildings and it was something that City
Council supported. They wanted to be the example and it was an important thing for the
development community. As part of the green program there was a new policy that stated new
public buildings greater than 10,000 square feet would need to meet certification under a new
program such as LEED. The City was looking at LEED for public buildings and they had left
flexible language in the event other programs came up in the future. There was a caveat to that,
it could be done provided it was operationally feasible; for example, there could not be the
omission of landscaping in a park. It had to be feasible and cost effective, the up front costs, rate
of return, and ultimately what they would get in the end. Where that left them for City projects
was to get the analysis and ask if it would make sense for a project. Staff would be bringing that
forward with every project.
Committee Member Cathcart stated that reclaimed water needed to be considered. In the early
70's when they widened Chapman for the first time he had asked that they put in an extra line for
reclaimed water and in the early 80's they did it again and had not installed the extra line. The
City needed to bite the bullet and start the infrastructure program. Irvine started it in the early
70's and it was not just landscaping, but toilets and urinals and buildings should not use potable
water.
Chair McCormack stated that was a LEED point right there.
Committee Member Gladson stated there were waterless urinals and all of that out there.
Committee Member Cathcart stated it was frustrating.
Ms. Le stated it was an infrastructure investment issue.
Committee Member Cathcart stated someone had to be the first in getting it started.
Ms. Le stated there were new policies for retrofits or upgrades of public buildings which would
be subject to the same cost evaluation and analysis. Operations were also looking at the
purchasing operations, what were the fleet replacement policies and park maintenance policies.
They would be focusing more on operations. It was part of what the SLICE team would do, to
take a look at internal policies and make recommendations. There was also the e-permit system
that had gone on line; it was a system that allowed an applicant to access most of the City's
property and permit information on line, many of the permits were also available on line. The
last component was private development. What the City would offer would be priority
processing for any green certified building and for green retrofit projects, those would be solar
panels, energy efficient water heaters, and anything mechanical or electrical that would be more
efficient than what had already existed. When they spoke with developers, with the exception of
incentives, priority processing was something they wanted.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he hoped they could have a policy on photovoltaic
installations not to require the structure to be updated to current code. They had lost a project in
Old Towne due to that, as the project could not be updated to current code in order to support
solar panels. He felt not enough consideration was being given to the historic wood that was
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used, which was much stronger than what current code allowed. There were other mitigating
measures that needed to be considered.
Ms. Le stated over-the-counter photovoltaic and water heater installation approval was being
offered and that would begin in July 2009. Other than the priority processing, there was the
green team customer assistance, which was a courtesy consultation on any projects brought forth,
there would be a very informed Development Staff member available to an applicant to review
any green projects. They could strategize with the applicant on how to apply green technologies
and assist in recommendations for a LEED Certified project. Lastly, there was the local
recognition program which was something where the City wanted to be seen as promoting green
projects in the community. When a development came forward that was green they would have
recognition from the City Council, promotion of the projects through the City's media, including
the website, newsletter, and cable channel. Staff had put before City Council some financial
incentives, ultimately they had not supported those and felt the tie between the economic
development mission and economic development money being placed toward green projects was
not great enough and City Council ended up tabling the economic development proposal to
possibly come back at a later date. Currently there were not any direct financial incentives.
There were private development incentives in the program in general and when times were better
it could be a consideration in the future.
Ms. Le stated some of the things the City was already involved in to promote green projects were
a tiered water rate to promote water conservation and free water audits were offered. She had
been surprised that the Water Department had stated it was something that not many people took
advantage of. Staff would be focusing a lot of their efforts on public outreach. All the City's
traffic signal lights had been replaced with LED lights and the irrigation and landscaping was
being replaced, there was an employee trip reduction and aCity-wide recycling program. There
was a person devoted to the promotion of recycling efforts in the City. Waterless urinals had
been installed at City Hall. As an example of a project that was not LEED Certified, but had
many what would have been considered LEED points, was the Grajalva Park Gymnasium. It
was a new facility that was built on a brown field that had been a contaminated landfill. There
had been remediation work on the field and the facility was more that 75% through construction.
The facility incorporated a low water use plant palette with a water efficient irrigation system;
the structure had a cool roof and incorporated a lot of natural light. There was a bioswale system
to treat water.
Chair McCormack asked if the project had gone through the LEED Commissioning process?
Ms. Le stated it had not. The City had considered doing a LEED Certified project and what
ultimately occurred was that the budget had come in much higher than anticipated and there was
scrambling to figure out funding. City Council had not approved the additional expense that
would have been required to gain LEED Certification. The building ultimately incorporated a lot
of green technology.
Committee Member Woollett stated the main energy uses in the City were residential use of
power and water heating. The problem with both of them as he saw, was that property owners
were scared or had not understood it, and they had to come up with initial funding prior to
rebates. There was a way to do it, if it was organized. When rebates came through there was a
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large portion that came back. In the City of Claremont, where the City actually required solar
hot water heating, they simply located a private investor who was interested in the rebates. He
funded the whole thing and in five years gave it to the landowner and they both walked away
happy. From then on they got free hot water. It was a chicken and egg issue. He stated he
would be delighted to spend some time with somebody, as he believed if the City would sponsor
that and people knew that fundamentally all they had to do was to pay what they were paying
now for six years and to allow the process to happen. In seven years all their power and hot
water would be free. It was a strong incentive. Getting from here to there was the hard part, as
people were not trusting. He stated there was a role the City could play and make a major
difference in the amount of energy that was used. Committee Member Woollett stated he saw
the City in a sponsorship role in bringing the pieces together and promoting the process.
Ms. Le asked for clarification of "sponsorship".
Committee Member Woollett stated sponsorship in that it would not require any money on the
part of the City; it would be a sponsorship of getting the parties together and getting the message
out and endorsing the process. The City would investigate the party who would be offering the
services. Committee Member Woollett had a sprinkler controller solar unit that had an eye that
watched the water usage. It had been free and he felt people had not understood and were wary
of the process.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if they had considered asking people to submit a dialogue
with their project of what they were doing that was green? Not as a requirement, but just as a
means to get applicants to start thinking in that direction.
Committee Member Woollett stated on the ground source idea, the applicants were so anxious to
find a way to not be required to do it; they had called him. When he had investigated the option
it was very doable, they had not understood it and had not wanted to understand it.
Chair McCormack stated he had worked on three Los Angeles projects in the inner City which
had been expedited through the process with City Plan check fees waived. It was an incentive
that many of the communities had gone with and he suggested that the City of Orange might
want to explore that. One of the reasons why the City of L.A. was comfortable waiving the fees
is that they assigned competent architects and landscape architects to do the projects. They were
confident that they had the top notch designers and that they could waive plan check and
eliminate the need for City Staff to pour over the projects looking for mistakes on the projects.
Richard Riordon had done that with several development projects in Los Angeles. Everyone
bought into the process and made it work.
Ms. Le stated they had looked into the idea of waivers which the City Council had not supported
and she felt it was due to the economic times. It was something that in the future could be
presented.
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Meeting Minutes for April 1, 2009
Page 8 of 14
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:42 p.m.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Joe Woollett, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
MOTION CARRIED.
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Meeting Minutes for April 1, 2009
Page 9 of 14
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
All Committee Members present
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
There was none.
CONSENT ITEMS:
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate
discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the
public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action.
1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: March 18, 2009
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve the minutes from the regular meeting of
March 18, 2009, with the changes and corrections noted.
SECOND: Adrienne Gladson
AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Joe Woollett, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for April 1, 2009
Page 10 of 14
CONSENT ITEMS (continued):
2) DRC N0.4399-08 & CUP NO. 2737-08 - VERIZON WIRELESS
A proposal to install a new wireless facility consisting of eight (8) panel antennas on an
existing SCE tower and four (4) cabinets contained within a CMU block enclosure.
Serano/Kendra SCE Tower
Staff Contact: Robert Garcia, (714) 744-7231, r ag rcia(a~cit of~nge.org
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Chair McCormack asked the Committee Members if anyone wished to open the item up for
discussion? There was no discussion.
Committee Member Gladson made a motion to approve, DRC No. 4399-08 and CUP No. 2737-
08, Verizon Wireless, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Joe Woollett, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
MOTION CARRIED.
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Meeting Minutes for April 1, 2009
Page 11 of 14
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items: None
New Agenda Item•
3) DRC No. 4400-08 - CHONG NEW RESIDENCE
A request to construct a new 6,300 square foot, single-family residence with a four car
attached garage on the subject property.
3544 East Woodbine Road
Staff Contact: Robert Garcia, (714) 744-7231, rra~ciana,cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Associate Planner, Robert Garcia, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Judy Chong, address on filed, stated she was available for any questions they had.
Public Comment
None.
Chair McCormack opened the item for discussion.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if a representative from the architect firm was present?
Mr. Garcia stated "No," only the applicants were present.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had found some discrepancies in the drawings. On the
front elevation, which he pointed out, there had been changes that had not been picked up in the
floor plans. The window mass had not been moved over on the floor plan and the elevations had
shown columns that had not appeared on the floor plans. There were several instances that were
not clear as to where the stone veneer stopped at the corners. It was probably a drafting error;
however, he felt it should be clarified. He pointed out the stone elements and his concern on the
drawings. On the egress, which was not their concern until it caused a change in design, the
second floor bedroom had not accounted for the window egress and felt they would need to be
changed. As far as the design he felt it was a bit tawdry for the neighborhood and had appeared
a bit cheap in relationship to the other structures on the street. The design used so many arched
style windows that it seemed very contrived and very busy. It would be nice to study the design
and to give it a little more class. On the arch entry there would not be a stone arch without any
voussoir, which would be the individual stones that would be supporting the arch. He would
want to have that detail included in the plans.
Committee Member Woollett stated he had no comments.
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Committee Member Gladson stated there was a notation in the Staff Report referring to the use
of stone treatment on the second story.
Mr. Garcia stated typically speaking the DRC had not approved of stone being used at that
height.
Chair McCormack stated there were some examples of stone that had gone up higher on other
homes in the neighborhood.
Committee Member Wheeler stated as there was stone supporting below he felt the height of the
stone was okay.
Chair McCormack stated he was concerned with the wrought iron railing in the front.
Mr. Garcia stated the applicant was willing to change that to fiber glass.
Chair McCormack stated with the balusters in the back and the columns in the front, he was not
certain how the Committee felt about the two not matching. The forms generally would have the
same design sensitivity.
Committee Member Wheeler stated since they were not visible to each other he felt it was
acceptable.
Chair McCormack asked on the front elevation what Committee Member Wheeler thought of the
column forms in the front.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had not felt they were a problem.
Chair McCormack stated on the foam covered with stucco, he felt when the foam was high it
would not get hit by a window cleaner or mower, but when it was down low it might deteriorate
much faster. Once the foam was dented it was ruined. He asked if there were other homes in the
neighborhood that had aluminum windows?
Mr. Garcia stated he was not certain if other homes in the neighborhood had them.
Committee Member Gladson stated it was a large home in a neighborhood with other large
homes.
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve DRC No. 4400-08, Chong New
Residence, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the following
additional conditions:
1. A revised and corrected copy of the drawings be submitted to Staff for review, with possible
re-submittal to the DRC if Staff found that necessary.
2. Revisions and corrections to include:
a) Clarify the location of stone veneer, to ensure the stone would not terminate at an exterior
corner.
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Meeting Minutes for April 1, 2009
Page 13 of 14
b) Clarify the discrepancy in the position of the windows in the front elevation and the 2nd
floor plan of the front most bedroom.
c) Clarify the arch stone construction over the entry, to show some stone voussoir.
d) Ensure if egress windows are required on the 2nd floor bedrooms that there would not be a
substantial change to the appearances presented to the DRC.
e) The wrought iron railing in the front elevation be changed to classical baluster.
f) The foam molding to be of a high density material.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
MOTION CARRIED.
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Meeting Minutes for April 1, 2009
Page 14 of 14
ADJOURNMENT:
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled meeting on
Wednesday, April 15, 2009 at 5:00 p.m. The meeting adjourned at 6:12 p.m.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
MOTION CARRIED.