02-06-2008 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES -FINAL
6 February 2008
Committee Members Present: Bill Cathcart
Donnie DeWees
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: Jon Califf
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Dan Ryan, Senior Planner, Historic Preservation
Robert Garcia, Associate Planner
Chad Ortlieb, Senior Planner
Howard Morris, Senior Landscape Coordinator
Gary Sheatz, Assistant City Attorney
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an administrative session beginning at 5:06 p.m.
Chair Wheeler opened the Administrative Session with a review of the Agenda.
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated election of officers would take place
at the start of the 5:50 Session and the elected officers would begin their term at the next
Design Review Committee meeting.
Chair Wheeler stated that he thought officers were elected last year in April.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated they were trying to remain consistent between Planning
Commission and Design Review. Planning Commission officers had been elected last
year in February, and the Planning Commission reorganized on February 4, 2008.
The Committee Members reviewed the minutes from the November 7, 2007 meeting. On
Item 7, Prestininzi minutes, the Committee Members discussed the use of quotes and the
overall draft of the minutes.
Assistant City Attorney, Gary Sheatz, stated the verbatim minutes were harder to break
up, if there was an issue with the readability of the document, the minute taker could go
through and break up the document. There was no hard and fast rule. They would see
action minutes, which would be a very brief summary or verbatim minutes as they had
before them.
City of Orange Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 2 of 12
Committee Member DeWees stated the minutes they generally looked at were in between
those two types.
Committee Member Woollett stated the minutes appeared to be very important and they
should be looking at them very closely. He stated there should be quotes encapsulating
the statements.
Recording Secretary, Sandi Dimick, stated since they were verbatim minutes the entire
document should be in quotes. The minutes were typed as they were heard.
Mr. Sheatz stated the only danger in doing that would be to ensure everything in quotes
was exactly what was stated.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated the "ums" and other inflections would need to be added.
Committee Member Woollett stated the minutes should read: said that, rather than:
stated.
Mr. Sheatz stated it would be safer to change the word stated to read: said that.
Chair Wheeler suggested in the future on verbatim minutes line items could be added.
He pointed out a passage in the minutes that did not make sense on page 9.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated the things one found when looking at verbatim minutes,
when reading what someone had said word for word many times did not make sense or it
would not be grammatical.
Chair Wheeler stated he felt there were one or more Committee Members that were not
willing to approve the minutes.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry asked if they wanted to continue the minutes, or review and make
changes?
Chair Woollett stated he felt he might not ever be able to approve the minutes as it might
involve a legal issue, and he was not willing to go on record stating he approved them.
Mr. Sheatz stated he was not sure that the Committee needed to approve the verbatim
minutes; they needed a set for the Planning Commission and a draft set was used for their
review. A short form of the Prestininzi minutes could be provided to the Committee for
their approval and he did understand their concern. The Planning Commission was able
to get a very good idea of what had gone on at the DRC meeting from the draft minutes.
Chair Wheeler stated that they could make a motion to continue the November 7, 2007
minutes, and they could also move the minute approval to the end of the agenda.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 3 of 12
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn the administrative session.
SECOND: Donnie DeWees
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Jon Califf
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:30 p.m.
MOTION CARRIED.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
The meeting adjourned at approximately 6:31 p.m. to the next regular scheduled meeting
on Wednesday, February 20, 2008.
COMMITTEE REORGANIZATION WITH AN EFFECTIVE DATE OF
FEBRUARY 20, 2008
Committee Member Cathcart made a motion to nominate Craig Wheeler for another term
as Committee Chair.
SECOND: Donnie DeWees
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Jon Califf
Chair Wheeler made a motion to nominate Donnie DeWees for another term as Vice
Chair
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
None.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 4 of 12
Chair Wheeler closed the Public Participation Session.
CONSENT ITEMS:
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no
separate discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee,
staff or the public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for
separate action.
1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Moved to the end of the Agenda.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 5 of 12
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items: None
New Agenda Items:
2) DRC No. 4258-07 - RODRIGUEZ DUPLEX
A proposal to construct a 2,151 sq. ft. two-story, freestanding dwelling unit with
an attached two-car garage and landscaping improvements, two uncovered
parking spaces, a six foot tall block wall and private open space areas.
4224 E. Washington Avenue
Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714-744-7237, cortlieb cr,cityoforan~e.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Senior Planner, Chad Ortlieb, gave a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Ernie Acevedo, address on file, was present to answer questions.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member DeWees asked if there had been any FAR comparisons?
Mr. Ortlieb stated a visual comparison had been done. There were other residences that
were smaller in size and the area was predominantly singe-story. There were other
duplex units in the area.
Chair Wheeler stated the Staff Report mentioned that the area was becoming slightly
blighted; there were other forms and styles in the area. One form he did not see was a
two-story, hip roof, Spanish style, South County tract house and he felt it was out of
character for the area. He suggested elimination of the Spanish the and go to
composition shingle or a flat the roof to try to reduce the amount of hipping and
introduce gables. Gables could be introduced over the entry and in each of the
projections. Also, instead of adding stucco to the front house, to introduce wood siding
to match the back house. He stated he had a problem with the drawings as the elevations
did not seem to match the floor plans. The doors and windows in the plans, however, did
not match the drawings. The offsets did not seem to fit the plans. On the south elevation
he could not understand the reason for an eyebrow. He pointed out the areas on the
drawings to the applicant. He reiterated the drawings should match the floor plans.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 6 of 12
Committee Member DeWees stated he agreed with Chair Wheeler. He stated if a the
roof was to be added, there should be a clear depiction of what that would look like. He
wanted to see the overall scale of the house reduced to remain consistent with other
structures. The plate height would help with massing. He gave suggestions for
reductions pointing out areas on the floor plans. He suggested blending in the design
with the house that was there.
Mr. Acevedo asked what if they went with stucco on the front house or did they want to
keep the siding?
Committee Member DeWees stated the front house had existed for a long time and one of
the things they talked about was the loss of historic fabric and adding stucco would be a
loss of historic fabric. There was validity to those neighborhoods and they had an
opportunity to enhance the area and incorporate the same style to what already existed
there.
Committee Member Cathcart stated one of the elements that was being casually
addressed were areas that were noted as landscaping and the notation of 6' high sage
brush to cover the parking. There needed to be more thought in screening and the actual
plant material that would be used on the site, a plant palette that made sense with the
existing plants. He suggested that a landscape plan be submitted to Community Services
with the notation for an automatic irrigation system. He felt that just adding a
landscaping symbol was not adequate.
Committee Member Woollett stated he would like to see the drawing more specific in
where the paving laid, where the plants were placed, and the concrete stopped. He was
concerned that the planting may not last long without a curb.
Committee Member Cathcart stated the landscape needed to be looked at in further detail.
Committee Member Woollett asked if 13' was required in an area he pointed out on the
drawing, and if the concrete needed to go all the way to the foundation?
Mr. Ortlieb stated there was an actual code requirement to have 4' landscaping on the
side where the parking spaces were placed. With the 4' landscaping, plus the 9' parking
requirement it was 13'. He could check with the Traffic Department to see if 11' or 12'
would be acceptable for access to the garage and backing out of the site.
Chair Wheeler stated it could be looked at as a ribbon driveway.
Committee Member Cathcart stated adding foundation planting was important to soften
up the relationship between the ground plane and the building wall.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to continue DRC No. 4258-07 -Rodriguez
Duplex, with the suggestions made by the Committee.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 7 of 12
SECOND Craig Wheeler
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 8 of 12
3) DRC No. 4298-07 - HOLLINS RESIDENCE
A proposal to construct a 2,222 sq. ft. single-family residence on a vacant lot
located at the northwest corner of Taft Avenue and Fern Street.
1820 Fern Street
Staff Contact: Robert Garcia, 714-744-7231, rgarcia@cityoforrange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Associate Planner, Robert Garcia, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff
Report.
Applicant, Michael Slaby, address on file, stated he had samples of the colors and
materials that would be used on the project and reviewed those with the Committee.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee.
Committee Member DeWees stated in the presentation it was read that based on the DRC
comments that the applicant had changed the design from a manufactured home to wood
framing.
Mr. Garcia stated the design was changed based on comments from the Committee
Members and the audience.
Committee Member DeWees stated he recalled that the Committee had stated at the
previous meeting that if the project was built to building code it was fine, the neighbors
could say anything they wanted; however, it was within the code and they did not
discourage the design as that was not part of the Committee Members purview.
Mr. Garica stated he wanted to clarify that the design changes were based on some of the
suggestions by the Committee Members based on aesthetics.
Chair Wheeler stated he did not have a problem with the project and made a suggestion to
have the entry recessed slightly. He suggested on the interior master wardrobe that they
could look at a Japanese design to have shelving on the back walls of the wardrobe with
clothing in the front.
Committee Member Cathcart stated there should be a landscape plan provided and
approved by Community Services. He suggested some detail could be added on the 6'
concrete wall, such as pilaster and adding some color to the wall. Decorative block could
be added as it sat on a prominent corner.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 9 of 12
Committee Member DeWees asked for clarification on the window placement.
Mr. Slaby stated they were adding shutters to the windows to tie in with the rest of the
neighborhood; it had not been added to the elevation.
Chair Wheeler stated there was a chimney; however, he did not see a fireplace on the
plans.
Mr. Slaby stated it had not been drawn in and pointed out the placement on the plans to
the Committee.
Committee Member DeWees made a motion to approve DRC No. 4298-07 -Hollins
Residence, with the following suggestions:
1. Recess the entry.
2. On the CMU wall facing Taft, add detailing of pilasters and decorative block.
And with the following condition:
1. Provide landscape and irrigation plans to Community Services.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 10 of 12
4) DRC No. 4307-07 - MORRISON RESIDENCE
A proposal to add a front porch addition to anon-contributing single-family
residence.
152 S. Waverly Street, Old Towne Historic District
Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan@cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Senior Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Bruce Morrison, applicant, address on file, stated he would like to have a front porch and
would use existing stucco on the front, with stamp and stain concrete on the porch
surface.
Public Comment
Janet Crenshaw, address on file, stated she represented the OTPA. After reviewing the
plans at the library she felt the railing looked very 20's cottage to her. She welcomed
suggestions from the Committee on the railing.
Chair Wheeler opened the item to the Committee for discussion.
Chair Wheeler stated he agreed with Ms. Crenshaw and possibly something could be
done to make the porch look more period style. The 6 x 6 posts could be reduced to 4 x 4
posts, and as the porch was less than 30" above grade it would allow any design.
Mr. Morrison stated he preferred having a railing. If 2 x 2's did not work he could
possibly add spindles.
Mr. Ryan stated he had seen a three rail design with a simple corner X in the form,
something less ornate.
Committee Member DeWees stated there was a bit of an eyebrow covering on the entry,
and he encouraged simplifying as much as they could and he would be in support of
leaving the house as is. He suggested keeping the members thin, using 4 x 4 posts and
simplifying the railing. He stated a metal railing could be used. The Treks material was
very modern and should only be used on the top. He asked if the applicant intended to
use Treks as it was noted on the design.
Mr. Morrison stated the plans were drawn three years ago and he intended to use wood.
Chair Wheeler stated a very simple railing, and the possible use of 2 x 4's. The
Committee discussed options for the railing.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 11 of 12
Committee Member DeWees stated it could also be drawn up without a railing.
Committee Member Woollett stated the concrete stamping would be inconsistent and was
not seen in that period of house.
Mr. Morrison stated he could go with a stain and wanted to add a texture to keep the
concrete from being slippery.
Committee Member Woollett suggested brooming the concrete.
Committee Member Cathcart suggested the use of "Dust On" color. It was used in high
traffic areas.
Committee Member Woollett asked what the plan for the steps were.
Mr. Morrison stated he would probably carry the color down the steps.
Committee Member Woollett stated the "Dust On" could be made into a light mortar
paste and carried down the steps.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve DRC No. 4307-07 -Morrison
Residence, with the following conditions:
1. Size down the structural members to 4 x 4 posts.
And with the following suggestions:
1. Simplify the rail design.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett, Bill Cathcart
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for February 6, 2008
Page 12 of 12
CONSENT ITEMS:
1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to continue the minutes from the November
7, 2007 Design Review Committee Meeting.
SECOND: Donnie DeWees
AYES: Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: Bill Cathcart
ABSENT: Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED.
Chair Wheeler made a motion to approve the minutes from the December 5, 2007 Design
Review Committee Meeting with corrections as noted.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: Bill Cathcart
ABSENT: Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED.
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve the minutes from the January 16,
2008 Design Review Committee Meeting with corrections as noted.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED.
ADJOURNMENT:
A motion was made by Committee Member Woollett to adjourn to the next regular
meeting on February 20, 2008.
SECOND: Donnie DeWees
AYES: Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Jon Califf
MOTION CARRIED.