12-15-2004 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES
December 15, 2004
Committee Members Present: Jon Califf
Donnie Dewees
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Roseberry, Planning Manager
Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner
Committee Member Absent: None
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an administrative session beginning at 5:00 p.m. The meeting adjourned
at approximately 7:30 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
City of Orange Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 15, 2004
Page 2
1. DRC No. 391.7-04 - MELINDA BROWN
Reconsideration to determine if project constitutes a demolition and whether the existing
garage was a contributing structure.
403 E. Palmyra Avenue (Old Towne)
No Staff Report
Committee Member Craig Wheeler recused himself from the discussion, as he is the Architect on
the project.
An overview of the project was given by Alice Angus, Community Development Director. She
reviewed the project as it had been presented to date. In July, plans were brought to the City
focusing on new garage doors, re-roofing, and adding on a workroom, trash/storage/potting shed
areas, with materials to match the existing house. Plans were submitted and approved for the
construction. The applicant proceeded with the project, and the city received a complaint. Upon
inspection, staff determined that it was primarily a demolition with just one wall remaining along
the property line. A Stop Work order was issued, and staff met with the applicant to discuss
processing and what steps would be needed to resolve the issue.
Ms. Angus reminded the DRC members as she passed out copies of the City's Code, and also the
Old Towne Design Standards, that because there were different definitions, and depending on
how the DRC chose to categorize the project, that will decide whether or not the DRC can
remain the approving body, or whether it needs to be treated as a demolition of a contributing
structure, which requires additional work and Planning Commission determination. Ms. Angus
stated that she would like Melinda Brown to also give an overview of her project and intentions.
Ms. Angus stated there was an inconsistency in definitions between the Municipal Zoning Code
and the Old Towne Design Standards that state, basically that a demolition is "an act or process
that destroys, moves or razes in whole or in part a building, structure or site, or permanently
impairs the structural or architectural integrity." She advised the DRC that one question they
would need to contemplate is whether or not what has happened, and what the applicant intends,
is a demolition. If it is a demolition (looking at the Old Towne Design Review Standards), there
are times when it goes to the Planning Commission and there are times when it goes to the DRC
for review. Basically, the DRC can act on a demolition as it is worded in the standards
demolition of anon-contributing accessory structure greater than 120 sq. ft. when the
replacement structure is similar in function and size." If it is a contributing accessory structure,
then it requires Planning Commission review.
Ms. Angus refers to the original historic survey that talks about the house, and there is no
mention of the accessory structure, so that does not define it as contributing or non-contributing.
The Municipal Zoning Code defines contributing structure as all pre-1940 buildings and
structures so identified on the City's historic building inventory. Again, this structure is not
identified, so it leaves the department unable to reach a firm conclusion. Ms. Angus also
identified a definition under the section of non-contributing buildings that are within the Old
Towne square-mile historic district, which do not contribute to the district because the buildings
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 15, 2004
Page 3
are contemporary in architectural style and are less than 50 years old. The Old Towne Design
Standards, page 41, defines a contributing building or structure as used in the document, as all
pre-1940 buildings and structures located within the established historic district, whether
individually designated historic or not, provided they retain their architectural integrity. There is
also a definition of anon-historic resource; a resource within a historic district that does not
contribute to the character of the district because the resource is either contemporary or no longer
retains architectural integrity. The last two definitions, she states, may be relevant (reminding
the DRC that at the staff level this was presented as a repair or a restoration), repair is not
defined anywhere, but rehabilitation (alterations to historic buildings which retain a significant
architectural style of the building while meeting the needs of current uses), and restoration is
defined as careful and meticulous return of a resource to an appearance at a particular time
period, usually on it's original site, by removal or later work or replacement of earlier work.
She summarized by saying that upon staff review of this project, it appeared to be a demolition,
and the question revolved around whether it is a contributing or non-contributing accessory
structure. If it is found to be non-contributing, then she is very comfortable in the understanding
that it is a demolition, and the record will be reflected as such. If it is found to be a contributing
structure, then the project would be on hold while some additional processing is done to move it
forward to the Planning Commission.
Melinda Brown, the applicant, introduced Kevin Hockenberry, noting that he lives in Old Towne
Tustin and has worked in Old Towne Orange before doing construction. She discussed her
timeline for the project. In Spring 2003, she spoke to Daniel Ryan, looking for an architect, he
recommended a couple, she interviewed some, Craig Wheeler was one that she really liked.
Originally, she renovated her home in 1996 to take it back to the character of what a 1901 house
should be. They noted that the garage needed to be repaired, and they decided to add a
workroom. She noted that Mr. Wheeler stated that her garage was very close to the property line
and she should probably have it surveyed. It was surveyed in August 2003. In the survey, it was
discovered that her garage is 3 inches on her neighbor's property. So that was an issue. She then
told Craig that she wanted to have trash can storage, needed to have a place to store her garden
things, and also wanted a workroom for her husband with extra storage. With that the plans were
drawn up. She then went through the various stages of the garage development, from slab to
floor, etc. She said there was no foundation for the garage, just the slab, and then some wood
was put down which was the shed part of the garage. The garage on one side, according to
Kevin Hockenberry, has a board and batten siding, like 10-12 inch redwood boards. The
opposite side basically has the T1-11 (the north side). The south side has T1-11 that someone
put on, probably because the old stuff rotted away. Ms. Brown stated that the problem was, the
wall was not connected to anything, you could lift it up, in fact raccoons, etc., had gotten in the
garage that way. She also stated that nine years ago when she was doing renovation on the
house, she was told not to waste her money putting a new roof on the structure, because it was in
such poor shape, it was not worth it, as the wood was rotting on the structure, etc. She noted that
she purchased a book of historic structures, her house was in it, and her garage was not. She also
noted that the garage had poor construction from the beginning, and even shoddier repairs and
additions to it since then, with no foundation, etc. It also does not match the house (no hip roof),
and is not the same construction or same style as Classical Revival Home. She noted that she
had used the word "repair" after a discussion with Dan Ryan, knowing that they would not be
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 15, 2004
Page 4
able to salvage the entire garage. But when construction began, the termite rot was so extensive,
that it could not be repaired.
The applicant was asked if they thought they were going to be able to retain the remaining wall;
Kevin Hockenberry replied that it was a shear wall, with a 4 x 4 every six or seven feet, and then
there's a 4 x 4 across the top. He stated his plan was to lift the wall, replace the bottom with
treated material, and hang the anchor bolts so as to set the wall on the new foundation because
the wall has to move (i.e., it needs to be on Melinda Brown's property; it currently is not). Mr.
Hockenberry stated that in his opinion the building was non-repairable, because it would be
impossible to restack a roof, turn a building, and move it six inches, and re-do all the sheer panel
walls, and still make it structurally sound. They noted that the plans actually showed siding on
the driveway-side wall, but if the original wall is retained, it would make the walls different. Ms.
Brown and Mr. Hockenberry stated that this was an issue they hoped the DRC would decide.
She stated that she even questioned Craig Wheeler (her architect) as to whether she had to do all
of the work in the final plans (i.e., reinforced concrete footings, new slab, etc.). She felt that she
was progressing in the correct direction throughout the project because of Craig Wheeler's
meticulous attention to detail.
The public was invited to speak.
Opposed:
Janet Crenshaw/OTPA -She stated she was upset about this because it sounded like a matter of
definition. What would have happened, had it been labeled a demolition, would have been that it
would go the Planning Commission, so it would be just one more step to save this building.
Chair Califf clarified that it would only have gone to Planning Commission had it been a
demotion of a contributing structure.) She believed that any structure built pre-1940 would have
been a contributing structure, and garages are typically not listed in the book. She asked if there
were any reason, now, to retain the wall. Mr. Hockenberry explained it would be easier for him
to take it down.
Jeff Frankel/OTPA -Questioned why, when the survey was done, they knew the garage had to
be moved so that was part of the original project? He does not recall that being part of the
original project. (Ms. Brown stated that it was not discussed.) He recalls the word "restoration"
used extensively, and adding on a potting shed. He believes the structure is contributing, and
you won't find any garages listed in the inventory of historic structures. He stated that you
would not have to pour a new footing if you were just repairing a structure. You would need to
follow the code requirements if you were building a new structure, but not for simply repairing a
structure. Mr. Hockenberry stated that the plans showed a whole new foundation; and Mr.
Frankel stated that that was the problem, these plans were not brought before the DRC. Mr.
Frankel also noted that he did not understand how the Building Department could approve plans
without bringing them before the DRC.
Shawn Howell, 385 S. Glassell Avenue - Mr. Howell stated that he was actually at the DRC
meeting when this project was presented. He was given the impression at that meeting that the
existing garage was going to remain in place, and additions would be added on to it (the potting
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 15, 2004
Page 5
shed, etc.). He noted that the project was even praised for keeping the existing garage, and that's
what the public was led to believe.
Alice Angus, Community Development Director, re-summarized what the department was
asking the DRC to determine. Are the plans as they stand now what it was when the DRC
originally made their decision on the project? And, if not, do you consider the work done to date
to be a demolition? If it's considered to be a demolition, then the question is, given the
information that there were some add-ons to the project (that, perhaps deteriorated it architectural
integrity), do you find that the structure was or was not a contributing accessory structure? If
these questions are answered, then the next steps can be determined as to the process to be
followed. If these questions are answered, then the next steps can be determined as to the
process to be followed. If it is found to be a demolition or partial demolition, then it can be
determined what is to happen to the one existing wall. If it is found to be non-contributing
because of the alterations that were made some time in the past 20-30 years, then the DRC has
the ability to approve the demolition and the new project. If it is found to be a contributing
accessory structure and demolition, then it does need to move on to the Planning Commission,
and the Stop Work that is in place needs to stay until a final determination is made.
A neighbor of Ms. Brown's came forward to voice her support of the project.
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to approve the item based on: 1) Even
though the garage was considered to be contributing at the time of the original determination,
further investigative work by the architect and contractor have revealed that it was compromised,
therefore it was no longer appropriate to consider the structure contributing; and 2) Even though
work originally was considered a repair, demolition was required and none of the building need
be retained if the owner wishes.
The DRC voted 2-1 (Committee Member DeWees dissenting) that the garage was not
contributing and could be demolished.
SECOND:Jon Califf
AYES:Jon Califf, Joe Woollett
NOES:Donnie Dewees
ABSENT:None
RECUSED:Craig Wheeler
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 15, 2004
Page 6
2. DRC No. 3889-04 -PALM CENTER REPLACEMENT BUILDING
Proposal to construct a 5,945 square foot commercial building.
970 North Tustin Street
Staff Contact: Kim Chaffin, Associate Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
The project overview was given by Associate Planner Kim Chaffin. The project site is the
northwest corner of Tustin and Collins within the shopping center occupied by Albertson's
grocery store and adjacent strip commercial center. The proposal is to construct a 5,945 square
foot commercial building adjacent to the existing multi-tenant commercial strip building. The
building will include two tenant spaces. The southerly space is designed to accommodate a
bank, including an outdoor ATM, while a tenant for the northern space has not yet been
identified.
The initial proposal was reviewed by the DRC on September 15, 2004. At that time, the DRC
made the following comments:
1. Need to see how the proposed building relates to the existing building, how it connects to
the existing building, and how the walking path connects to the existing building.
2. Need to see how the colors of the proposed building relate to the existing building.
3. The DRC is not convinced the design is acceptable, as the colonnades alone are not
sufficient to relate the proposed building to the existing building.
4. Building height is important, so either match the height of the existing building or make it
significantly different.
5. Delete the cornices.
Differences between the revised plans and the initial design include:
1. Stairs connecting the proposed building to the original building are replaced with an
accessible ramp. The ramp connects to the existing walkway which serves the existing
building.
2. Colors are the same as originally proposal, but the the accents are removed in keeping
with the simplicity of the existing building. Stucco color is the same as the existing
building, with the exception of the corners, which have a slightly warmer tone.
3. The columns are changed by the addition of capitals. The column shape is changed from
tapered to non-tapered and the diameter of the columns is decreased to be more
aesthetically pleasing and more in scale with both the existing building and the addition.
4. The height of the opening between the floor and ceiling is slightly increased.
5. The height of the proposed building is changed to match that of the existing building.
6. Cornices are removed.
7. Added massing to the roof screen as a way to articulate the new addition.
8. The ATM is relocated from the south elevation to the east elevation.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 15, 2004
Page 7
Klaus Barre of Keller Barre Associates, the project architect, presented a scale model of the
proposed building and the existing strip commercial center to which the proposed building would
be attached.
Committee Member Wheeler commented that the revised building design has addressed the
DRC's concerns, with which Members Califf and Woollett concurred.
Committee Member Dewees noted the textured and smooth sidewalk pattern and suggested that
the minor adjustments be made to the placement of the textured surface so that it relates more
appropriately to the doorways. Mr. Barre indicated such a change could be accommodated.
Kim Talley of C.B. Richard Ellis, the applicant's representative, asked for clarification regarding
the Rookies Restaurant sign. Ms. Chaffin explained that the City's Sign Ordinance requires
removal of any abandoned sign that advertises goods or services which have not been available
for a period of 90 days or more, and the Rookies Restaurant building was demolished over two
years ago. Ms. Talley asked about the possibility of constructing a monument sign on the
property, to which Ms. Chaffin replied that signage was not included in this application; however,
the portions of the building fascia which are unobstructed by palm trees are logical locations for
wall signage.
A motion was made by Committee Member Jon Califf to approve the project, including the five
conditions listed in the staff report:
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 15, 2004
Page 8
3. DRC No. 3963 -MOBILE SERVICE STATION
Proposal for new wall signs and exterior neon lighting.
2504 E. Chapman Avenue
Staff Contact: Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Approved on Consent Calendar)
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to approve the project as submitted.
SECOND: Jon Califf
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 15, 2004
Page 9
4. DRC No. 3947-04 -DREW McCAUSLAND
Proposal for an accessory second unit.
1021 E. Rose Avenue
Staff Contact: Christopher Carnes
DRC Action: Final Determination
Senior Planner Chris Carnes introduced the item. The applicant is proposing to build an attached
accessory unit onto the rear of the single-story residence. The required parking will be behind
that in a 3-car garage. The addition is of a similar roof design, colors and materials of the
existing residence. The existing 2-car garage will be demolished. Staff's review of the project
did not find any concerns and recommended approval.
Committee Member Joe Woollett noted that there was brick siding along the front, and wondered
if this was continued on the accessory second unit. The answer was no, as the addition was out
of sight in the back. Committee Member Wheeler stated that the DRC usually asks that the
window trim on the addition match the existing window trim, and he had noticed several
different window trims on the existing structure. The applicant stated that they had just planned
on using vinyl windows, but they could add wood trim around the outside. Mr. Wheeler felt that
the original style was most probably on the east side of the existing structure, and it would be
helpful if the new trim matched that. Chair Califf asked the applicant if he planned to replace the
windows throughout, and the response was yes at some point. Mr. Wheeler asked that the eave
barge trim also be made to match the existing. The applicant agreed to change out the wood
windows on the existing house at the same time as the ones are put on the new house so as to
have them match. Regarding the roofing material, Mr. Woollett asked that the applicant check
back with the building department if, upon initial installation, it is found that it does not match
closely (due to age, weathering, etc., of the original). The applicant agreed to provide a sample
to Chris Carnes to review.
A motion was made by Committee Chair Jon Califf to approve the project subject to those within
the Staff Report and the following additional conditions:
1. If applicant cannot closely match the color and material of the existing roof, that sample
of the alternative be provided to Staff.
2. The windows in the existing residence be replaced to match the new windows in the
addition.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 15, 2004
Page 10
5. DRC No. 3960-04 - GUTHRIE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY
Proposal for amulti-building industrial development
South side of Meats Avenue approximately 900 feet west of Glassell Street
Staff Contact: Christopher Carnes
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
The item was introduced by Senior Planner Chris Carnes. Representing the applicant were John
O'Brian, 3185 Airway Avenue #F, Costa Mesa and William Skinner of the same address. Mr.
Carnes noted that the subject property is in the middle of an industrial area. It has limited
frontage on Meats Avenue. The proposal includes building design and landscaping plans. Staff
has found that the buildings were compatible with the existing industrial developments in the
City, and the landscaping was more than adequate to provide partial screening for the larger
blank walls of the complex. Staff is recommending approval. Howard Morris, Landscape
Coordinator, has reviewed the project and made several recommendations. The existing parking
is being relocated.
The Committee Members discussed the colors being used in the project. The applicant noted
that there would be subtle changes to the color throughout the project.
A motion was made by Committee Member Joe Woollett to recommend approval of the project,
as submitted, to the Planning Commission.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie Dewees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
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