HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-17-1997 PC MinutesCd5DD.~.:J_3
MINUTES
Planning Commission
City of Orange
Ma-ch 17.
1997 Monday - 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Bosch. Carlton. Romero, Smith
ABSENT: Commissioner Pruett
STAFF
PRESENT: Vem Jones, Manager of Current Planning - Commission Secretary;Stan
Soo-Hoo. Assistant City Attorney,
Roger Hohnbaum. Assistant City Engineer. and
Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary
IN RE: CONSENT CALENDAR
1. APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR THE MEETING OF 3/3/97.
Moved by Commissioner Carlton. seconded by Commissioner Smith. to approve the Consent
Calendar.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bosch, Carlton. Romero, Smith
None
Commissioner Pruett MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARING
2. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 2167-97 - STUART'S ROLLERWORLD
The applicant is proposing permanent installation of the existin~ fabric covering over the roller hockey
rink. with other improvements to control sound. The project site IS located at 2190 North Canal Street -north
side of Meats Avenue, west of Canal, at Peralta Junior High School.NOTE:
Negative Declaration 1511-97 has been prepared in accordance with the requirements of
the California Environmental Quality Act. to address the potential environmental impacts
of this project.
This item was continued from the February 19. 1997 hearing.)
Jim Donovan, Associate Planner, presented the full staff report. Staff was given a list of items to
address from the previous hearinQ. Documentation from the prior project - Super Sports Facility - was requested, including
the original nOise analysis and the City Council's resolution that contains all conditions that apply
to the facility. Staff was also asked to report on the frequency of service calls. to which the Police Department
has responded since the time the facility was opened. Also. what the life safety and building code
and fire department requirements would be that may affect secondary issues that were discussed in
the previous hearing such as noise and aesthetics. The applicant, In addition to that information, was
asked to provide more information about the contractual maintenance responsibilities and measures proposed
to offset the visual impact of a large structure. The question was raised about the long-term
viability of the fabric cover and how long it would last without getting tattered or having to be replaced
altogether. In the staff report there are a number of pages that staff feels adequately address those
comments. This information has been available for review for the last 10 days at the Planning Department;
however, there wasn'ta lot of public interest. The noise analysis included a range from 50 decibels
on up to the threshold of violating the City's ordinance, 74.7 decibels. These were mostly anticipated
to be as instantaneously and short-duration noise causl1d by play, crowd response and
whistle blasts. The tests from the applicant's consultant indicated the facility is presently operating within
that range, from SO.5 to 65.1 decibels. The Police Department also responded with a 5-page
computer
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Planning Commission Minutes Ma'ch 17, 1997
print out of service calls to the property. Many of those relate not only to disturbances at the facility, and
in some cases even individual fist fights, but also attempted burglaries or false alarms where the alarms
have gone off In some of the structures. There Is also a complete list of what the City Council's
requirements were for the facility and the applicant's voluntary information that was provided with the
application indicating what the hours of operation would be. Staff was not In a good position to
determine what the life safety requirements would be and they asked the applicant to contact the
manufacturer to see if there were any similar projects where these kind of issues came up, and what theydidtoresolvethem. In the Commissioners' raCkets there were photos of exhaust fans on top of some
of the structures that are installed on the roo than evaporative coolers or equipment that would be built
on a pad at the side of the facility.
Mr. Soo-Hoo said two of the Commissioners were not at the original public hearing and they had
an announcement (for the record) regarding their review of the Minutes from that
meeting.Commissioner Romero reviewed all the documentation and felt he could participate in this hearing
and come to a reasonable
decision.Commissioner Smith also reviewed all the documentation and felt she could be helpful in making
a decision regarding this
project.The pUblic hearing was
opened.
ADDlicant Ron Hoesterey, 2190 Canal, represented the applicant, Stuart's Rollerworld. Based on thequestionsthatarosefromthepreviousmeeting, they addressed some of the major items that had to do with
the operation of the facility. One, was the ventilation of the project -- how air flow would get into the buildingwhenbothendswereclosed. There are a number of buildings like this in permanent use around the
Southland and Palm Desert. There is a very similar building that is in use down at the Hyatt in Irvine. It is
common to use these buildings in a permanent type of situation. There are a number of ways to cool the
building. The turbine vents placed on the top of the building are anti-gravity vents. As thebuildingheats, the heat rises and goes out the roof of the building and the vents turn. The sides of thebuildingareremovable; it allows the air to come in from the bottom. Should the building reach
excess temperatures during the summer months, these buildings are cooled with portable coolers that can
be placed in the comers of the building. They are evaporative coolers and can be moved in to cool
the facility. Due to the nature of the occupancy of the buirding as a sporting arena, and because themajorityofthespaceonthefloorofthebuildingistakenupbyplayingsurface, therearen't massive crowds.
The heat generated by crowds is minimized because of the type of use in this facility. They do notanticipateproblemswithventilationorsafetyofthebuildin~ from that standpoint. Should it become an issue,
the portable coolers can be placed inside the facility
Immediately.The next issue they addressed had to do with the operations of the facility. There has been a
training program instituted for Stuart's Sportsworld. All the coaches, managers and participants go through
an orientation session at the beainnlng of each league season. Topics discussed include conduct, hours
of operation, occupancy of the lacility and rules. A coaches meeting will be discussing rink policies. They till request hours of play be allowed until 10:00 p.m. The incidents that occurred in the past weresingleproblems. The facility does stop at 10:00 p.m. and there will be no exceptions. This has been
an operating procedure for the last couple of months. And, in reviewing past history they have beenpretty
consistent.As far as closure of the rink, they looked at procedures for shuttinQ the rink down. This would allowforevacuationoftherink, the players and their equipment. It would give the manager an opportunity togothroughtherinkandmakesureeveryonehadvacatedpriortoshuttingthelightsoffinthefacility.Everyone will vacate the buildin9 by 10:15 p.m., the manager will check the rink and make sure the
side curtains are closed and the building secured. He will be out of the facility by 10:20 p.m., at which timethelightswillgooffautomaticaUyfiveminutes
later.Security is provided by the master lease holder. Signage has been placed at the facility and itclearlystatestheoperatinghours. Big signs are posted at the entrance
gates. .
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Planning Commission Minutes MCI'Ch 17, 1997
He believed the Commission had been given copies of the landscape plan. It had to do with the visual
impacts. They included 1ine of sight' photos from Canal to Meats. The majority of the visual impact of
the facility is from Canal to Meats, on either side of the pre-school building. If the south end of the
facility were blocked, it would mitigate the majority of that visual impact. It was recommended they use
trees along the perimeter of that building. There is about a 3 foot section to work with and they propose
to put in 7 trees which would hide the size of the building from the street. Also, along the street trees
have been planted. They are bare at this time, but they will also block the view of the building when they
are in full bloom. Along the skateboard park there is landscapinlil at the present time; however, the
applicant could put the green screening up, which would block line of Sight to the facility from the
street.In the previous packet there were pictures of a representative entrance. And they talked about
life safety from the standpoint of doors (ingress and egress). The applicant proposes a flat panel at
the north end that would then have doors with panic hardware. This is behind a locked chain link fence which
is in front of the building. There would be double security into the
facility.They are working on the Rre Dep'artment's requirements as to the fire status of the cover. Inasmuch
the manufacturer of the tent buys it s canvas from another manufacturer, they are in the process of
going through that chain to obtain the testing and fire
data.Commissioner Smith said Mr. Hoesterey mentioned bringing in the coolers when the building was
too hot. At what point would that temperature
be?Mr. Hoesterey did not know at this time. Last summer the dome was up, but the two ends were
open.It didn't stop play and it wasn't a problem. They could check on the temperature and put that in
their operating
procedures.Commissioner Smith asked him who he would consult to get that
answer?Mr. Hoesterey would talk to a building engineer to find out the temperature kids could play
at.Commissioner Smith asked where the evaporative coolers would be placed? How long does it take
for those machines to be effective in a hot
building?Mr. Hoesterey replied they would be inside the building, in the comers of the arena. He did not
know how long it would take to cool down the building. As it became hot, the coolers would be put in
the facility and remain throughout the
season.Commissioner Carlton referred to the flyer regarding the coaches meeting. The rules state the lastgamewillstartnolaterthan10:00 p.m. Was that a
typo?Mr. Hoesterey corrected that statement: No later than 9:00 p.m. Actually, it should be
conclude.Everyone is aware that the stopping time is 10:00 p.
m.Commissioner Carlton asked if these games typically take an hour to
play?Mr. Hoesterey said games run about 45
minutes.Commissioner Carlton read in the material the trees that were planted to this point were 15 gallon and
it was going to take them awhile to mature. What size trees were they proposing and how
many?Mr. Hoasterey responded they were also 15 gallon trees, but they spread out more than the onesalongthestreet. Due to the constraint of the amount of room between the running track and building, they
can only plant 15 gallon trees. They propose to plant 7 trees. He had pictures of trees in boxes that
were placed next to the buildings. Trees help to diffuse a lot of the building. They make a visual difference
on the
property.Commissioner Romero asked if they had any complaints last summer about the heat inside the
rink?Mr. Hoesterey was not aware of any complaints; he could defer to the
operator.Commissioner Romero was aware of some
complaints.
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Planning Commission Minutes Ma-ch 17,
1997 Chairman Bosch was concerned about the noise of the evaporative coolers, although they will be
placed
inside.Mr. Hoesterey said there were large fans in the facility now, and with the ends open, it operates
well below the noise requirements. With the ends closed, he did not anticipate any difference in the
noise
levels.Those soeaking in
favor Barry Aynn, 2579 North Franki, said there were a couple of things everyone agreed on at the last
hearing.The many levels of sports participation is a good thing and nobody liked the school the way it was.
He visited different parts of the neighborhood crose to the facility on several different evenings. He
never witnessed noise coming from the roller hockey facility; it was from the Sports Center in general. He
also heard the freeway, cars on the street, on Saturday mornings he heard lawnmowers, and crickets. As
for the aesthetics, they can be worked on by having some greenery around the buildings. The
dome structure itself is not overwhelming or over stated. He would like to see everyone work in a
positive manner to try and cure the problems and resolve their differences. Improvements could be made to
limit the noise and make the impact on the neighbors
less.Those soeaking in
oDDOsition Steve Edwards, 1106 Cumberland Road, noted the Commissioners had their blue notebooks, which
had a variety of information that was compiled regarding the past history of the facility. It consists of
a synopsis of the facility showing an evolution of the CUP and how it came to pass. It also points
out discrepancies in what was proposed as opposed to what ultimately came to be. There are a number
of issues he thought was interesting. He referred to Section A - the existing copy of the CUP. The original
noise analysis specifically stated there would be no league play at the facility. That's not the case. In
Section B there is documentation to verify that. The noise analysis also stated there would be no
bleachers. There are bleachers. The ground rules for the facility have not been adhered to, and he made
reference to those documents in the notebook. There was a copy of the lease, in which it was specific
about various things that are considered a waste or nuisance. In Section G it refers to a similar facility in
Vista (a golf facility). They have recently been found liable for lawsuits for loss of use of one's home, In
this case it was golf balls. This is coming next at this site. The facility has a number of problems that
need to be addressed at this time. Petitions were circulated (Section J). In Section I there is a copy of a
letter that was sent to a number of area residents indicating if the dome proved to be beneficial to both
the surrounding neighborhood and owners, it would become permanent. He believed most of the
residents in the neighborhood feel the dome has not been beneficial to them, but it has been beneficial
to the owner and manager of the roller hockey rink. There are numerous letters in Section L that have
gone back and forth between the City and the school board that indicates there has been a definite
public opinion from the residents in the area. The residents went to the school board (Section M), and
voiced their opposition to making this a permanent structure. Section N contains the ground rules for
noise levels. It also mentions there be no buildings of any temporary character, unless approved by the
landlord. The noise analysis is contained in Section O. section P contains the Declaration of Consensus,
signed by 15 members in the surrounding community, outlining the dome was an experiment that failed.
Going back to the school board in Section a, the noise analysis was brought up and the Declaration of
Consensus presented. In Section R, the school board decided to refrain from taking any action until after
the matter came back to the Planning Commission. The sports facility has brought some unique
problems to the neighborhood. This type of use has been less than successful to integrate this type of
facility into a residential area. He looked to the Planning Commission to solve some of the problems and
restore the type of environment the neighbors use to have. Evaporative coolers only work when the
humidity level was fairly low. He was not sure that would be a complete solution.
Commissioner Smith heard him say he has lived in the neighborhood since 1989. Was the school
functioning then? (No, not at that time. It was already closed.) She asked him if he thou9.ht the sports
facility has been beneficial to any kids in the community? (Roller hockey, as an actiVity, has been
beneficial to the kids.)
Mr. Edwards pointed out they were not opposed to roller hockey; they are opposed to the location in
which it is being operated. It's the right thing, but in the wrong place.
Commissioner Cartton asked what the neighbors would like to see in that location?
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Planning Commission Minutes Mwch 17, 1997
Mr. Edwards responded two things bother the neighbors from an aesthetic standpoint: The skate park
and the dome. The skate park was never proposed on the original plan. The soccer activity has not
been a problem. The roller hockey with its bleachers and substantial crowds has been much more of a
problem. Golf has some problems from the standpoint of golf balls coming over the net. This will
probably be elevated into some additional complaints. Personally, he would welcome what it is zoned
for -- 8.000 square foot residential lots.Richard
8gas, 1032 Cumberland Road. thought this came down to a simple statement that the integrity of their
homes has been violated to the point where they can sit anywhere In the home and hear noise from the
hockey games. They have witnessed alcohol on the premise; the fights, the sound of the buzzer has not
gone away, and yelling. Past history was two days ago. And, of course, the leaf blowers at 4:30 a.
m.. 6:30 p.m. and 11:30 p.m. -- all of these hours are documented. He read into the record a letter from an
ill, 75 year old woman, Mrs. Sarah Rucker who lived on Meats, across from the dome and skate park. She
was opposed to the tent, skate park, car racers and noise. It comes down to an indifference;otherwise, they
would not be present at this hearing. The dome has been up almost six months without permits. There
was no vote about the dome or skate boarding. It was just there. Why has the City passed this
on to the school board? The neighbors are to the point where they will take legal action;they want
the sports facility to follow the rules and recognize the area was residential, not commercial or industrial. Fairness
has to be for the common good of the people; not just a single entity.Commissioner Smith
pointed out any leaf blower in the City at 4:30 a.m. is illegal. There is a sound ordinance in
Orange. Was this happening on a regular basis?Mr. Elgas
said the police responded at 11 :30 p.m. and that person was there. That person said he had permission of
the owner. It has not stopped. A week and a half ago there was an incident at 6:45 a.m.Commissioner Smith
asked what would be Mr. Elgas' preferred use of the property?Mr. Elgas
said he preferred to have senior citizen housing at the site.Commissioner Romero
asked if he had problems or complaints with the golf activity?Mr. Elgas'
complaints with the ~olf are the same as Vista's complaints. The balls are flying to the point where there
have been windshIelds bashed and neighbor's windows have been broken. The golf facility Is great.
but they are in too confined a space.Resident at
1044 Cumberland Road, bought his house in 1996 and it has turned out to be a mistake. He graduated from
Peralta in 1983. He always liked the neighborhood and he was finally able to buy his own flome. Because
he gets up early to go to work. he needs to go to bed by 9:00 p.m. The sports facility Is theloudestbetween9and10p.m. He likes to sleep in on Sundays, but there Is noise starting at 700 a.
m.James Thomas.
1020 East Cumberland Road, didn't doubt there were buildings like this throughout Southern California. He didn't think they were in a residential area though. A couple of years ago when this was
first proposed, there was to be landscaping. There are no trees yet. There Is a track, but remote cars
use the track and cars are parked there. He was opposed to the noise on Saturday and Sunday momings.
Rebuttal Mr.
Hoesterey
was informed the cooling equipment are Carrier units and will reduce the building temperature 15
degrees In approximately 45 minutes when all four units are in operation. They have hoses that
will be put over the glass wall around the arena and blow down, cooling the rink area. It would force more
of the hot air up towards the roof. As an alternate, should the temperature become unsafe,they will
suspend play for the protection of the children. He believed they have addressed most of the issues broupht
up this evening in prior meetings. They asked that the Commission act in favor of the CUP with
al the conditions except for condition 3. In working with staff they have agreed that opening at 8:00
a.m. on Sunday was more appropriate than 7:00 a.m. But, they still want to close at 10:00 p.m.because the
entire facility closes at 10:00 p.m.5 r
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Planning Commission Minutes March 17, 1997
Commissioner Romero asked what his response was to the comment of what was originally planned isnotwhathasoccurredhereinregardstotheremotecontrolcars, the hockey rink, the skate park, etc.?
Mr. Hoesterey responded the roller rinks were identified in the original plans. He also believed theoriginalCUPaddressedmodularbuildings. The remote control cars and ~olf need to be addressed .bythemasterlessee, which is not under the purview of this application. In this application they are lookingattheoperationoftherollerrinkandthedome. They want to implement those additional features whichwillmitigatetheissuestheresidentsarecomplainingabout.
Commissioner Romero asked what Mr. Hawkins has told him in regards to a letter to the OUSD in that hepromisedtocontinueworkingwiththeneighborsInmakingcorrectionstothefacilityandoperations? HasthatbeendiscussedwithyoubyMr. Hawkins?
Mr. Hoesterey replied from a standpoint of working to mitigate the operations with the neighbors, that'swhytheyareatthishearing. The operation of the facnity was within the noise parameters, evenpreviously. By the implementation of this dome, it will further reduce the impact on the neighborhoodfromthenoiseandsoundnuisances. They have hired an independent security firm to patrol the premisesatnighttomakesuretherulesareenforced.
Commissioner Romero asked what has been done with regards to the graffiti if it continues to occur?
Mr. Hoesterey said the master lessee handles the graffiti. If graffiti occurs on the roller rink area, then themanagementofthefacilitywillberesponsiblefortheeradicationofthegraffiti. He didn't see graffiti atthesite.
Commissioner Romero spoke about the evaporative cooling units. A safe temperature has yet to bedeterminedbytheapplicantandhewasconcernedaboutthecommentmadebyoneoftheneighborsthattheunitsdonotworkinlowhumiditytimeperiods.
Mr. H09sterey said the opposite was true. The cooling units work at their maximum efficiency during lowhumiditysituations. As they go through the building permit process, they will pick a temperature that playwouldbesuspendedat, or that implementation of the coolers would be Implemented. He was notqualifiedtopickatemperature. The reason they put up the dome was for the safety of the players.There were a lot of injuries from kids falling on the asphalt. The dome also protects the kids from thedirectsun. The plastic floor acts as an insulator against the asphalt.
Commissioner Romero was adamant if the dome was not accomplishing what it should be, then thedomeshouldnotbeinplace.
Mr. H09sterey stated the sound analysis shows the noise is being reduced. It also contains the entireoperationwithinthedome. The bleachers will also be inside the facility. The dome will enhance theactivitythatistherenow.
Commissioner Carlton asked what the difference was between roller hockey and speed soccer? Wheredothepeoplestandorsittowatchthegames?
Mr. Hoesterey explained speed soccer is on a very similar rink, but it has astro turf. It is played just likeoutdoorsoccer, except it is in a contained arena like the hockey rink. It's a much faster game. Where therollerhockeyisalmostidenticaltoicehockey, but with in-line skates. People will sit in the bleacherstowatchthegames. There is a full sized arena and a second arena that is smaller. These were both partoftheoriginaf
plans.Commissioner Smithdidn't have a good sense of the use of the facility. The hours of 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. on a Sunday is 14 hours. Were there 14 (or 28) teams playing on Sunday, one after the
other?Mr. Hoesterey replied if scheduled, yes. That would be the maximum capacity -- 28 teams.
Commissioner Smith asked how many teams come in now?
Mr. Hoesterey didn't have that information with him.
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Planning Commission Minutes Ma-ch 17,
1997 Commissioner Smith asked what was the peak use of the facility? How many hours a day is the
facility
used?Mr. Hoesterey stated the heaviest use was from 6:00 to 10:00 p.m. If the operating hours were cut
to 9:00 p.m., it effectively cuts 25% of the playing time from the facility. In the summer, the children
could play
longer.Stuart Silver, owner of the roller hockey facility, explained games are only played on Saturdays
and Sundays. They provide youth practices Monday through Friday, starting at 6:00 p.m. One night they
start at 5:00 p.m. Games are played on the weekends -- youth games on Saturday; adult games on Sunday.There are 716 participants presently enrolled. About 56% are children; the balance are adults. TheyschedulethegameseveryhOur, on the hour. A game takes 4 ten minute periods, which is 40 minutes.
Commissioner Smith asked about summer playing times?
Mr. Silver responded summer use is much slower than the winter time. The kids don't playas much roller
hockey in summer as they do in winter. There is daily play; just not as many participants.
Commissioner Smith wanted to know the hours of operation they were requesting?
Mr. Hoesterey said they requested to be open from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m., 7 days a week, except for
Sunday. They agreed to an 8:00 a.m. opening time. The facility has only been open one summer. That
was a start up. This is a program that will build over a period of time and they didn't know how many
participants would be using the facility during the summer months.
Chairman Bosch perceived this as being an intensification of use from what was originally approved. The
drawings the Commission has showing the original approval did show a roller hOCkey rink adjacent to
Meats Avenue, approximately where the skate park exists. It showed a temporary voney ball court and
potential future use of some kind in the center of the site where this facility now exists. This rink is
substantially closer (50%) in terms of the site to the residences to the north than the roller hockey rink
proposed under the original concept. Now, what they are looking at is apparently some more
Intensification. Bleachers have shown up. A much heavier schedule has resulted than anyone thoughtwould. Now the building is enclosed and there is heavy team play. How would they state this isn't a
substantial change in terms of the impacts of roller hockey, the noise one would anticipate and the
intensity of use for this as one of a collection of uses approved on the site than what was originallyapproved?
Mr. Hoesterey replied inasmuch as there is one rink on the site at this time, there is a certain capacity of
play irrespective of where the rink is located. Because of the length of time of a game, there are only so
many' teams that can Plar. From a standpoint of light in the area, there were and are lights for the
activities. The operation a hours were the same in the use permit. The level of intensity is no different.
The plans he saw showed two hockey facilities. He didn't know if it were the first set or second set of
plans. There was a hOCkey rink against Meats and then in the same proximity where the one is today.This is still less than half of what the capacity could be. As long as the lights were contained within the
site, they would have operated under the same parameters.
Chairman Bosch asked if they were faced with the potential of having a second roller hockey facility in
operation at some future point in time?
Mr. Hoesterey didn't believe so. The applicant did not have any plans for a second rink at this time.
They're just trying to get this one completed.
Chairman Bosch's concern was when this was originally looked at, it was looked at as a collection of uses
that came together, didn't impact one another, and had different populations of users. Even though the
operating hours encompass a whole period of time, how can everything on the site operatesimultaneously?
Mr. Hoesterey thought if they looked at the mechanics of volleyball games, they have the same number
of players as hockey so the numbers of people on the site are no different than what was originallyproposed. The activity may be different, but the number of people at the site for the combination of
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Planning Commission Minutes Ma-ch 17,
1997 activities that are there -- there would be no substantial change from what was previously proposed and
approved.
Chairman Bosch said they heard at the last hearing that the structure that currently exists, which was
placed on a temporary-permanent basis, which the Fire Department has allowed to grant for
short-term use, It seems to have transpired Into a permanent facility with a major economic Impact being
put on them. He was concerned only with the land uses for this. He understands the problems with
the other areas of the site have to go back to review of the original conditional use permit to see if It Is
intact. The Commission Is not empowered to Interface between the school district and users with regard
to the lease. The Commission's purview Is strictly with land use. His concern Is that since the school
district is deferring to see what the action of the Planning Commission might be, that the overall
operators are allowing the application to come forward and It still re~esents a fairly substantial increase in use
on the site. What else is proposed to happen? Now, there is power car racin~ on the site. He knowsit
wasn't Mr. Hoesterey's cont:em, but it's part of a whole package. He was looking for some way to
mitigate what are clearly perceived impacts that have existed, and continue to exist from the use in terms
of noise,lights, buzzers, crowds, etc. That even though they are within the limits of the ordinance, It
doesn't necessarily represent what the Intent of the people was for a Ion9 period of time. There are
two levels of criteria here. One is the level of activity that is legally actionable vs. that which is
more good neighborly. He didn't see how the air conditioning units running fairly full-time during
the summer months will reduce the noise level or help provide that good neighbor of mitigation regardless of
being less than the overall ordinance
of the City.Mr. Hoesterey said they had three independent consultants that had done noise studies
at the facility.Based on their actual readings of the facility and the proposed readings, of closing that north
end of the facility, it shows a dramatic drop in noise (72% reduction). When they closed the south end,
there was a tremendous reduction in noise from whenit was Ol>9n. In fact, the noise levels are far
below what the community experienced when the site was vacant. City staff has also taken readings on
the noise levels.They are looking to complete the enclosure, and that will further mitigate the noise
100% from the standpoint of bringing the levels down to what the
projected levels are.Commissioner Carlton was looking at three different sets of drawings. The one in
the Commission's packet was the second page on the noise analysis, dated November, 1993. Right behind that
is a plot map of what the facility IS to look like. Then, a drawing was presented at the last
hearing in December,1993, and it shows (all of a sudden) two roller hockey fields where before on the first
drawing, a month previously, was a totally different configuration and there were quite a few planting
buffers across
the back wall.Mr. Hoesterey replied there are Cypress trees along the
entire back wall.Commissioner Carlton said on the latest drawing that was presented, there was a roller hockey
rink and a skate park, which is what is there now. She didn't see any reference to that anywhere
originally, nor did she see it in the conditional use permit from the City Council dated April 12, 1994.
There, they referred to three separate speed soccer areas. She was confused as to just what was it was they wanted
to do
at the site.Mr. Hoesterey explained the conditional use permit before the Commission is for the
completion of the dome. They were showing the other uses only because the drawings were used to put
reference to what Is being proposed for the enclosure of the facility. They are not moving the roller hockey
rink. In addition to that, the Issues of the neighbors were brought up that they addressed. They are issues
that need to be discussed and put into place as part
of this permit.Commissioner Carlton asked if the skate park were still part of the business operation, or
is that another lessee that runs
the skate park?Mr. Hoesterey replied the skate park was part of this
operator's business.Commissioner Carlton understood It was not part of the original CUP, or part of
the original schematic that was given to
the City Council.The public he.lring was closed and brought back to the
Commission
for discussion.8
Planning Commission Minutes Ma-ch 17,
1997 Commissioner Carlton didn' know where to begin. The focus is on the land use and compatibility
with the surrounding area. At this point, it didn' seem to be very compatible for a number of reasons,
which were brought up. She read the police report and was amazed at that; there were so many
violations involving the facility. The fact the dome has gone on past
the
time...it was not pennitted originally. That'
s a concern. She was concerned there is a skate board park now and she knows it is not part of the
tent,but it is all relevant (in her mind) to the total picture they were trying to put together for the facility.
Are they going to want to put up another dome over the skate park? She didn' know if she had
enough Infonnalion to make a decision at this
time.Commissioner Smith, editorially speaking, was in favor of facilities like this. She had three sons in
her house who play hockey, as well as her husband. She was in favor of organized sports, especially
for children. She would like to see this facility work at the site, but it doesn' sound like it is working
now because of the way it is operating. It sounds like noise is the major problem. If somethin~ could
be done to mitigate the noise of the buzzers, the crowds, the coolers. fans, and the parking lot, It mi9ht
be workable. She also thought the hours are pretty invasive to the neighbors considering people's time
at home are on the weekends and in the evenings. She never wants to be discriminatory; however,
she would be far more in favor of this project if she knew it was bein9 used by young people most of
the time. It sounds like the dome is a SO/SO split between adults and kids. She was really torn on this.
She sympathized with the neighbors on it. The sound was an invasion to their privacy. There is no way
the use of volleyball is the same as the use of hockey. Hocke~ is an aggressive game; it's noisy.
Volleyball is a lot softer. It's not the contact sport that hockey is. She was also upset to hear there has
been agitation in the parking lot after hockey games. There needs to be much better control by the
property owners and vendors to bring that under control. She imagined most of that is from the adult league
and there is absolutely no excuse for that outside of the rink. That also needs to be mitigated. The use is
far more intense than what they were thinkin~ of at the time of original approval. She also was in favor
of skateboard parks; she was in awe of the kids who could make those skateboards work. But, the sport
is noisy' and can be annoying. The whole picture needs to be looked at of how everything relates.
She didn t see any place for remote control cars at the site. It's suppose to be a sports facility and that
does not constitute a sport. She could see how all these pieces put together bring the community out
in opposition. There definitely needs to be some limits and mitigating measures put into the
conditions arding the hours, sound buffering, who can use the facility and the monitoring of activity outside
the Commissioner Romero said his son played hockey at the current rink. He personally has been at the
rink and has experienced the heat during the summer months. He felt the closure would be a positive
in reducing the noise levels. It's difficult to control an individual regarding the volume of his voice. With
the noise in the mornings on weekends, that has been not been a livable situation for the neighbors.
No comment was made with regards to the negative condition of the dome in its current condition.
Hopefully,the painting of the dome will resolve those problems. Closing the dome will not reduce the noise
when it comes to the vehicles and kids or adults before and after games. When a game ends at 9:00 p.m.,
he can' get his son out of there in 20 minutes. He didn' understand how the management could expect
the kids to undress, get their gear off and be out of there by the time the lights go off. He had a
mixed feeling as to which way to go on
this.Commissioner Carlton was also concerned about the closing schedule. They end the games at 10:
00 p.m., at 10:15 the security guard comes around and at 10:20 he has made sure the place is empty and
the lights are out at 10:25 p.m. She didn' think that was realistic. Just for the record, she was very much
in favor of this kind of sport and facility for young people. It's a 9reat asset to the community. She was
not quite sure how they could resolve the issues to everyone's
satisfaction.Chairman Bosch shared the thoughts of the Commissioners. The key concerns for him were trying
to segregate this back down to what the application is before the Commission and how it is impacted
by the surrounding existing community situations. Part of that is with the land itself and the
previous approval that is there. The Commission was not acting on the appropriateness of the conditional
use permit that was previously enacted. It appears there are, from time to time, challenges to the good
of the community that occur because of it. Those should be investigated by staff and taken up
and mitigated, hopefully with the good faith efforts of the master lease horder. Everything seems to be
cast off on all the tenants underneath it. If the tenant is said to have a problem because of the master
lease,it is the master lessee's problem. If the master lessee has a problem, then it is the tenant's
problem;not his. Some place here there has to be accountability. And accountability does not exist. It's not
fair to tar a specific sub-user with that brush, but they are there and they are part of it. He
felt
that 9 r
T--"'"
Planning Commission Minutes Mm'd117, 1997
regardless of the motion on this project, he would also like to have an action to request staff and City
COuncil, if necessary, to explore and review the existing conditional use permit to ascertain whether there
is anything that can be done to assure better compliance and bern~ better neighbors out there.
Although no one was sure what would happen, everyone thought at the tIme this was going to be better
than what was there. Well, maybe it is still better than what was there, given what might have happened
to what pre-existed If this had not been built. The neighbors were wiDing to accept an intrusion
upon their lives in times other than school hours in order to offset the attractive nuisance that sat there for
some years without a school in operation. Hedidn't think it was the hi9h school bingo or the golf range
or tennis that was causing the fights in the parking lots. Hedidn't thmk seniors fought too much after
the bingo games. It has to come from something else. It's either the use on the site or off the site,
spilling onto the site. Again, it is somebody'sresponsibilit}t. It tustcan't go away. How will this be addressed
if there is no other way, if it's not the responsibility of an ndividual sub-lessee? Then, the City has
to get back involved to see whether there are grounds for looking at some of the conditions of
operation under City ordinances, as well as the previous approval, and causing the holder of the original
conditional use permit on the overall parcel to take care of the action involved. The currentapplicants can'
t divorce themselves from it because the CUP goes with the land and not the applicant. It stays there
forever, as long as the school district is willing to lease the land. Conditions must be placed on this if it
is considered for approval, or in the least, to inform the City Council that the Planning Commission feels are in
the best interest of not only' preserving the rights for use on the property, but preserving the well being
of the community
around it.In that regard. he looked at the times of use. That seems to be the major problem.
And, potential impacts back on security and policing that are the responsibility of the users. When he looked
at the police report and saw the numerous activity at the facility, theneIghbors haven't been
complaining about anything, compared to that police report. There is a real problem out there. Some of it
has been mitiQated. But, it looks like the parents are fighting in the parking lots now. Again, the lease
the school district has is fine. They are the landowner; but theCity can't telllhem what to do. They can't
interfere in their lease. He was torn too; it's a really tough one. It's got a lot of baggage on it from
what has happened in the past. It wasn't what was anticipated. It's a great thing for the youth on the site.
If they want to put up another building, they would have to come back to the City. He was
vert concerned about the aesthetics. That's important too. He had no idea what would happen with the Oran~
e Mall over the years. There are a lot of plans and talking about radical changes to it. The community
is in change. In terms of the future, there will be a lot more change going on and they hope it is
for the better. The screening plan that has been presented, if the size of the plant material going in, in
terms of the trees and shrubs, is made adequate and is still economical, that will help from the start.
Sizes need to be set. They need to look further at the design of the tent in terms of what's modified to
it when permanent or seasonal air conditioning is installed, when roof vents mar be installed on
top, which downgrades the aesthetics of it. He wants to make sure the intent 0 the dome is for
a flavful,recreational tent-Ake structure rather than it becoming more like a temporary industrial building.
He s afraid the vents on the roof will make it more like an industrial building. He would like to
see some instruction back through the Design Review Board to the applicant, to do something to assure
that ventilation, which has to occur at the top to get the heat out, is something perhaps that pulls that hot air
back down and gets it out without further industrializing the appearance of the structure. He
thought organized activities at 8:00 a.m. on Sunday on the site in the midst of a residential zone is wrong. There
a number of churches just up the street who have organized activities at that hour. There is traffic,
talking and music,but it is not the same level of intensity as roller hockey and the noise roller hockey makes.
The hour of 8:00 a.m. on a weekend is just too early for that level of organized acti~ to occur.
He understood the desire to stretch it to the closing hours onweekday nights, I:)ut again, this IS a level of noise
that is having a far greater negative effect than had been thought. How can the buzzer noise be
controlled? And, the activity in the parking lot, which is a policing problem? The Commission has
approved conditional use permits for live entertainment in restaurants, requiring uniformed security guards to be present
on the site during all operational hours to assure there is peace and order maintained. Should that
be considered in this case to offset this level of problem that seems to occur virtually at all hours of the day
and night, but very heavily
around closingtime?He didn't want to see the opportunity for the kids to go away. He didn't want to
see the economic viability of recreational uses at the site disappear because then the school district may
come back with something incredibility more erroneous and it may be out of the City's control. At the
sametime, he didn't want the continued friction between the neighbors and the facility and to escalate into
a war over time. He wanted to separate the issues for the problems with golf. Those need to
be handled under the existing conditional use permit, City ordinances and whatever other issues of
liability
Planning Commission Minutes Ma-ch 17,
1997 are involved. That's there, regardless of what the Commission decides. The same for bingo,
speed soccer, and baseball. There are other uses that are clearly not allowed by the permits such as
motorized car racing on the track. City staff needs to look into that and remind the lease holder and the
property owner of the need to meet the letter of the law in that regard. The request before the Commission
can be tinkered with thatdoesn't hurt the applicant, helps the neighbors substantially, and keeps
the operation at the site. There is still a negatIve: there's this thing out therel Because of theeqUipmentInvolvedandtheIntensityofthehockeygames, there Is a heahh hazard If there isn't air conditioning
or some type of protection. He would like to see the tent like structure enhanced not with ventilators,
but with some flag poles and banners to show something festive Is happening on the site. Plant some
more trees around the sides and. give up some pavement and sidewalk elsewhere to give it betterscreening.An entry structure that says this is a great place to be and have fun is what is needed; it's a celebration
of the community and sport, rather than a way out of a problem. And, itdoesn't have to be expensive.
He was not h~py with the operating hours. He would like to see them changed. Landscaping is a step
in the right dIrection, but he would like to see it assured by setting sizes and looking for even
more opportunities to landscape, to assist in hldin~ the mass of the structure. There needs to be
controls,even though this meets the City's noise ordInance, relative to the clear nuisance noises such as
the buzzer. There needs to be substantial controls with regard to the implementation of air conditioning
to assure that it doesn't industrialize the structure. And, also with regard to the private policing of thefacilitytoassurethattheconstructiveexuberancethathopefullycomesfromthehockeygames, doesn't
turn negative in the parking lot at any time during the day or niQht, to the damage of the young
people everyone is trying to l1elp and to the community by layermg in some level of security that is
a responsibility of the lessee as a whole, as it relates to all the activities on the site. Looking
back,wouldn't it be nice to have a park? No one brought out their checkbooks to buy a park. The Citycan't
do that anymore. Wouldn't it be nice to have a schOol there? Thatcan't be controlled either; however, it
may come back some day. The Commission has the opportunity to limit the damage caused by
inappropriate management In the past and to help control something really good so itdoesn't add to the problem
in the
future.Commissioner Smith proposed the termination of play on every night, 7 days a week, would
be 9:00 p.m., allowing that all sound would be finished by 10:00 p.m. Sunday play should not begin
until 10:00 a.m. and ceasing at 9:00 p.m. The opening hours could remain the same during the week and
on Saturdays. Except for Sunday, which should be set back to 10:00 a.m. She agreed there should
be larger plant material from the beginning to hide the mass of the building. She was open tosuggestionsregardingthesizeofplantmaterial, or that could be determined by the Design Review Board.
The buzzer definitely needs to be controlled. By adding the enclosures to the dome, it will help reduce
the noise
level.Mr. Jones didn't know if there was something to muffle the sound of the buzzer or just reduce
the intensity of it. Staff could pursue it to see if there was some technology or something that would
reduce the noise
level.Commissioner Smith also liked the idea of decorative flags being added to the building to show
a colorful, festive mood. Air conditioning is a definite factor for this building because theydidn't want it
to be unsafe for the participants. A condition was needed to monitor that. The private policing of thefacilityisamustandthattheparkinglotsbepoliced, especially on the weekends. There needs to be
some teeth" in the security system at the
site.Commissioner Carlton wanted clarification on the operating hours during the
week.Commissioner Smith was in favor of leaving the opening time at 7:00 a.m., Monday through Friday. The Commission agreed the opening time on Saturday should be 8:00 a.m. (rather than 7:00 a.
m.)Commissioner Carlton would like to see additional landscaping along Meats Avenue, in addition to
the shielding of the structure with landscaping. More trees are needed to help screen the area. The trellisonthedrawingisagoodideaanditshouldbeincluded. Posting speed limit signs to 10 m.p.h. in
the parking lot needs to be done, If it hasn't already been posted. HaVing a security guard on the sitefrom6:00 p.m. to closing would seem reasonable. In reading the police reports, the more seriousviolationsandahercationshavebeenafterthat
time.
11 r --- -
Planning Commission Minutes Ma-ch 17,
1997 Chairman Bosch thought it would be wise to have an uniformed security guard posted In the parking lot
to one-half hour after the overall site closed. With regard to the buzzers and noise levels, the
noise output shall be limited to not exceed 75 decibels within 50 feet of the perimeter of
the dome.Mr. Hohnbaum offered some suggestions for the control of noise. When building roadways they
try to mitigate adjacent properties for the automobile noise. Rather than to control the point
source, they attempt to control its effect. The two standards that are in effect is 45 decibels for Inside noise (
inside of a home), and 65 decibels for exterior noise (a living area such as a patio outside of a
home). He suggested those two standards be considered for implementation. If there Is an open window
on a property, the outside noise Is the inside noise. So, if there are decibels exceeding 45 at
the property line (closest property line to the point source), the Inside noise Is exceeded. There are many
ways to mitigate the pointing of the source of noise - insulation, baffling, closing doors -- many ways to Insulate
the source so the effect Is mitigated.
Chairman Bosch was In favor of the 45 decibels at the property line. The spike from the buzzer shall be
limited to that at the property line through measurement. That the buzzer enunciator be baffled and
aimed within the facility to the east or south to minimize noise intrusion on the neighbors. In looking at the
landscaping, he stated there were seven trees proposed to be planted along the south side of the roller
hockey rink. The Commission should recommend 24" boxed trees for that. He also appreciated
Commissioner Carlton's sU~UJestion along Meats Avenue there should be an enhancement of the existing
tree barrier by adding additIonal trees, all subtect to the review of the Design Review Board. On the
building design, this is subjective, but, again, to go back to the Design Review Board for any
modification of the structure to accommodate the heat vents or enclosure of air conditioning be one that
enhances the festival nature of the dome design. And, in addition, to request added aesthetic elements
on the dome design to further enhance that to avoid any industrial aepearance of the building. The
organized game commencement is the major noise source at the facility. He didn't see a game time
needing to begin before 8:00 a.m. on weekdays or 9:00 a.m. on Saturdays, and 10:00 a.m. on Sundays.
That would be a negative impact on.the community if games were allowed to commence earlier. Opening
hours for the overall facility were already stated in the original conditions of the CUP.
Commissioner Carlton asked If there was a time period on this approval, or does it go forever?
Chairman Bosch explained this would be a final action by the Commission, unless appealed to the City
Council. Then, subject to performance under the conditions of approval, this would go with the land.
There is no termination date.
Commissioner Carlton asked If there were violations, how would they be handled?
Mr. Soo-Hoo responded if there were violations of the conditions of approval, staff would instigate
a revocation proceeding and bring it back to the Planning Commission for a public hearing and
possible revocation of the
CUP.Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Romero, to approve Negative
Declaration 1511-97, finding that it was prepared to evaluate the potential environmental impacts of this
project, and that there is no substantial evidence that the project will have a significant impact on the
environment or
wildlife
resources.
AYES:
NOES:ABSENT:Commissioners Bosch, Carlton,
Romero,
Smith None Commissioner Pruett
MOTION CARRIED Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Carlton, to approve
Conditional Use Permit 2167-97 subject to conditions 1 through 7 in the staff report, with the modification to
condition 3 to read: Roller hockey organized games will not commence before 8:00 a.m. on weekdays, 9:00
a.m. on Saturdays, and 10:00 a.m. on Sundays. Games shall conclude by 9:00 p.m. daily. Add condition
8 - The roller hockey buzzer/speaker shall be aimed east or south, away from the single
family residential property lines. and properly baffled so that spike noise from the enunciator shall not exceed
45 decibels at the north and west property lines of the site. Add condition 9 - The roller hockey screening plan
dated March 3, 1997, be incorporated as a condition subiect to the boxed tr6e8 called out on the plans - 7 trees
to be in 24" boxes - and that additional trees be pfanted along the Meats Avenue stretch of the south 12
r""" ..,
Planning Commission Minutes MCI'Ch 17, 1 'i1iJ7
property line, bordering the skate park and roller hockey rink areas to supplement the existing
landscaping. Add condition 10 - An unifonned security guard shall be required to be present and stationed
in the parking lot for control from 6:00 p.m. to one-half hour after closing on all days of operation
of roller hockey. Add condition 11 - The design of the dome or building shall include proper integration of any
air conditioning or heat relief vents to avoid an ildustrial appearance, and shall include enhancement of the
festival nature of the dome design with added aesthetic elements such as fla~s, banners, trelliage,and
other architectural devices. Add condition 12 - That 10 m.p.h. speed limit sIgns be posted at the entrance and
within the drive aisles of the parking lot.AYES: Commissioners
Bosch, Carlton, Romero, Smith NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner
Pruett MOTION CARRIED Mr. Jones
infonned the audience this action was final unless appealed to the City Council within 15 days from this
hearing. Appeal fonns were in the Planning Department. There is an appeal fee of $115.00.Chairman Bosch
requested staff to review the existing conditional use permit conditions to be sure everything is
bei~ done to stay in confonnance and that all City ordinances are being met. Staff is to identify any
conditIons that need to be re-visited or any mitigation that has to be undertaken with any of the
users on the site to assure there is compliance and to alleviate the negative conditions that have fallen upon
the neighbors.Moved
by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Smith, for staff to investigate compliance with
existing conditional use pannit conditions and City ordinances, to interface with the on-site users and
property owner to assure mitIgation, and to bring back to the Commission, if necessary, any adjustments
or action necessary to assure compliance and the health, safety and well-being of the adjacent
property
owners.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:Commissioners Bosch, Carlton, Romero,
Smith
None Commissioner Pruett MOTION
CARRIED Chainnan Bosch said this was a no-win situation for everyone; it's really a tough onel Things have
to be done to look at not just doing business as usual, but find more innovative ways to do it to get
done what needs to be done for the activities on the site, to be good neighbors, and to continue that asset
to the community and at the same time, for the neighbors to interface positively to help ward off
problems. He really appreciated the diligence and activity that the residents surroundin~ the site, in partnership
with the people on the site and the rest of the City have done. There is inconvemence here. There are
still areas that need to be explored in tenns of other on-going problems and he looked forward
to solutions to those
along the way.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT Moved by Commissioner Carlton, seconded by Commissioner Romero, to adjourn to
a joint study session with the City Council on ,a,pril1, 1997 at 5:00 p.m. in the Weimer Room to
review the proposed Capital Improvement Program for RscaI
Year 1'i1iJ7-98.AYES: Commissioners
Bosch, Carlton,
Romero, Smith NOES: None ABSENT:
Commissioner Pruett MOTION CARRIED The meeting adjourned at
9:
20
p.m.
Isld 13