HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-19-1996 PC MinutesMINUTES
Planning Commission August 19, 1996
City of Orange Monday - 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Bosch, Carlton, Romero, Smith
ABSENT: Commissioner Pruett
STAFF
PRESENT: Vem Jones, Manager of Current Planning -Commission Secretary;
Stan Soo-Hoo, Assistant City Attorney,
Bob VonSchimmelmann, Assistant City Engineer, and
Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary
IN RE: CONSENT CALENDAR
1. APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR THE MEETING OF 8/5/96
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Carlton, to approve the Minutes of 8/5/96
as recorded.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Carlton, Romero, Smith
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Pruett MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARING
2. MODIFICATION TO CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1981-92 - O.K. PARTNERS 1
The applicant is requesting a modification to previously approved Conditional Use Permit 1981-92 to
allow the convenience store to stay open 24 hours daily. The applicant is also requesting a Type "20" Off
Sale Beer and Wine License to allow the convenience store to sell beer and wine for off-site
consumption. The site is located on the southwest corner of Santiago Boulevard and the 55 (Costa
Mesa/Newport) Freeway, addressed 2700 North Santiago Boulevard.
NOTE: This project is categorically exempt from provisions of the California Environmental
duality Act per State CECA Guidelines Section 15303.
Chris Carnes, Associate Planner, presented the full staff report as there was opposition to this item. The
applicant was requesting the sale of beer and wine from a convenience store, and requesting that the
convenience store be allowed to open 24 hours a day, every day. To implement the proposal, the
applicant is requesting the Planning Commission to approve modifications to a previously approved
conditional use permit to allow the construction of a 2-story building that was to contain a car wash, a
convenience store and offices. One of the offices is proposed on the second floor. At that time the
approved hours of operation were 7:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. for the car wash; and 7:30 a. m. to 10:00 p.m.
for the sale of motor fuel and for the operation of the convenience store. The subject site is presently
being developed with the improvements. The applicant is proposing to sell the beer and wine from two
coolers that are located opposite of the cashier inside the convenience store. The Staff Review
Committee has reviewed the proposal and expressed a concern with persons wanting to consume
alcohol while waiting for their cars being washed and detailed. To counter that possibility, the Staff
Review Committee has recommended two conditions. One, that signs will be posted on site stating that
no alcohol was to be consumed on site. The second condition was that all alcoholic beverages be sold in
either a 4-pack or 6-pack; that no alcohol be sold as individual containers. The Police Department has also
reviewed the proposal and recommended eight conditions of approval, one of which includes more
restrictive hours that what is allowed by the State, which would be from 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. daily.
Planning staff has received two letters from residents who live in the vicinity of the subject site expressing
concern with the proposal. They felt the increased hours of operation would
Planning Commission Minutes August 19, 1996
and traffic in their neighborhood. Since the proposal includes the sale of beer and wine with the sale of
motor fuel, the zoning ordinance requires the Planning Commission action be a recommendation only and
that the City Council will make the final determination on this matter. Staff has included 18 conditions of
approval, which includes the restrictions on the placement of the alcoholic beverages for sale, and the
hours of sale.
Mr. Soo-Hoo thought there might be some confusion as to what was being heard before the
Commission because of the previous application. He suggested Mr. Jones explain to the public what is
precisely before the Commission.
Mr. Jones explained the previous conditional use permit allowed the operation of a full service car wash
including a retail component, gasoline sales, and to establish the original hours of operation from 7:30
a.m. to 6:30 p.m. for the car wash. The gas pumps were to be open from 7:30 a.m. to 10:30 p.m. every
day. The application before the Commission at this hearing is specifically to allow the off-sale of beer
and wine in conjunction with the car wash operation, which is currently under construction. It is also to allow
the retail service and gas sales to occur on a 24-hour basis.
The public hearing was opened.
Applicant
Jeff Klein represented O. K. Partners 1 and Shell Oil, 359 San Miguel, Suite 206, Newport Beach. He
said they were trying to be good neighbors and did not want to offend the residents, their future
customers. He hoped there might be a compromise with this project. Chevron is to one side of them
and Texaco and Circle K were on the other side. He believed they were 24 hour operations who sold
beer and wine. Immediately adjacent to their project there were two existing restaurants: Both of them
currently sell alcoholic beverages that could be consumed on site and well past the 9:00 p.m. time period
that was suggested in the recommendations from Planning staff for the time they would be required to
shut down the sale of their beer and wine beverages. They don't feel it was fair to be selective about
conditions and restrictions placed on these kind of businesses that are in the area when they are all
adjacent to the freeway. They find themselves in the middle of five different businesses that are either
24-hours and selling products like their convenience store, which sells alcoholic beverages. From the
research they have done, they were not aware of any list of complaints that has been generated by the
operation of the 24-hour facilities. They would like to try and see how they operate within the State's
gwdelines and if they don't handle their business properly, then they would be shut down. They would
much rather approach it from the standpoint of "let's see what happens; give us a chance to prove
ourselves" than to selectively say the other people on the block can conduct their business in this manner,
but you can't. He didn't understand the nature of the opposition. Something that would be detrimental
to them aside from the alcoholic beverage sales are the gasoline sales. By 7:30 a.m. most everyone has
commuted to their work destinations. For them not to sell gasoline until 7:30 a.m. would be very
detrimental. They proposed two compromises for consideration. They would like to start selling gas at
5:00 a.m. On the sale of alcoholic beverages, they would like to have the ability to sell these beverages
on Fridays, Saturdays and holidays up to 12 midnight.
Chairman Bosch asked if the applicant had seen the staff report? (Yes.) On Pages 5 and 6 the Planning
Commission is required by the Municipal Code and to a certain extent by State law to consider criteria
with regard to a conditional use permit. He asked Mr. Klein to review the findings the Commission must
make on Page 6 and address each of them.
Mr. Klein felt he touched on a couple of the findings. He was not aware of any problems generated in
the area by substantially more intense uses than what they are proposing. On the sound principles of
land use and in response to services required by the community he didn't know how to answer that. A car
wash would be useful in the area. He assumed these decisions were made previously with the original
conditional use permit. He didn't know how the use would cause deterioration in the neighborhood. He
saw the sale of alcoholic beverages for off-site consumption to be less of a problem than the existing
restaurants where alcohol can be consumed on site. They don't think their request for a compromise
would be detrimental to the neighborhood.
Commissioner Smith wanted to be clear about the start times for the sale of alcohol. Mr. Klein was
asking to be allowed to sell alcoholic beverages until midnight on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
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Planning Commission Minutes August 19, 1996
Mr. Klein responded it would be on Friday, Saturday and holidays -- not on Sundays. Their start time for
sale of alcoholic beverages is the same as Planning staff's recommendation - 8:00 a.m.
Commissioner Smith asked about the gas sales. They would start selling gas at 5:00 a.m. and then pump
gas to what time if the 24-hour operation were not approved?
Mr. Klein stated the sale of gasoline would be until midnight, every day.
Commissioner Smith asked Mr. Klein to describe their coolers that the alcohol would be sold from.
Mr. Klein said it was hard to see the plan. Their coolers are situated in such a way that the cashier would
be directly facing the coolers. They will be able to internally police the situation themselves. The coolers
have a walk-in box behind them. A person must open the door to access the beverages; they will not
be sitting out in the open.
Commissioner Smith asked "rf the car wash hours would remain the same, 7:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m., 7 days a
week? (Yes.)
Commissioner Carlton asked Mr. Klein to explain about the sandwich shop part of the convenience
store. It was shown on the floor plan and she wondered if the sandwiches would be sold over the
counter to eat there and would it be strictly for off-site consumption?
Mr. Klein responded it would really be for off-site consumption. They would be packaged sandwiches.
They also propose to sell packaged muffins and coffee during the morrnng hours -- things to grab and go.
There really isn't any seating for someone to consume food on site.
Those speaking in opposition
Fred Koehler, 2660 North Vista Bluff Road, moved to this area in 1967. When this property was originally
developed and planned, the Commission at that time decided the area should be used strictly for
residential use. Therefore, it was developed accordingly. The Commission also looked at the use of the
area. The gas stations wanted 60 foot freeway signs to pull people in off the freeway. It was decided at
that time because of the residential use, signs should be limited to 24 to 30 feet. To have a 24-hour
operation at this location would be visually intrusive from the lights alone. Not all the businesses are 24
hour operations along Santiago Boulevard and it would be inappropriate to do so.
Chairman Bosch asked 'rf the gas stations were open 24 hours?
Mr. Koehler could not remember if they were or not.
Bob Matheson, 2525 East Vista Ridge Drive, said the Texaco was open 24 hours, but he was not sure if
Chevron was open 24 hours. Both the Texaco and Chevron do not sell alcoholic beverages. Increased
lighting in the community would be undesirable. More alcohol being sold in the community on a 24-hour
basis is not needed. Young people go up to the top of the hill all the time; another 24 hour gas station
that sells alcohol is not needed.
Charlotte Brady, 2706 North Vista Bluff Road, said Chevron was open 24 hours but it faces a non-
residential slope. Circle K sells beer and wine and they are open weekdays until midnight and weekends
until 2:00 a.m. The Union 76 is across the way on Tustin at Lincoln and it is a 24 hour station. It has a car
wash that is open from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. The residents are opposed to another business being
open 24 hours and being allowed to sell alcoholic beverages in the middle of their residential
neighborhood.
Jeff Weber, 2697 North Vista Glen Road, realizes staff is required to send out notices to property
owners within 300 feet of the proposed project, but in this situation 75% of the people notified were
either commercial or industrial owners. Very few residents were notified. This issue is very important to
the residents. He opposed the station being open 24 hours as it was not in everyone's best interest.
The amount of light would be offensive.
Sharlene Gerrardie, 2230 Vista Canyon Road, was disappointed in the few notifications that were mailed
to the residents. She personally did not think very many people would buy gas at 5:00 a.m. By selling
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Planning Commission Minutes August 19, 1996
alcohol, the station would pull people off the freeway into their neighborhood. The station is not doing a
service to the community; they're not bringing in anything new. All of these services are already available
in the area.
Clara Gath, 2683 North Vista Bluff Road, was opposed to the entire concept of selling beer and wine at
any gas station -- not just the proposed station. It was sending a wrong message about drinking and
driving. It was a deceptive way in which this came about. It seems the applicants agree to anything and
then come back and change the rules of the game.
Edmund Stoops, 2706 North Vista Glen Road, did not have a problem with the gas station closing at
10:00 p.m. It became a shock to them when the gas station was being built with two stories. The
residents understand the significance of the public hearing process because they were present. But he
thought it was odd that none of them were present in 1992. The Mayor said there were 17 property
owners in Vista Royale that were notified, but he corrected the Mayor in his second letter -- there were
only eight. The other property owners on the list were commercial properties. He knows he will have
additional trash and debris in his front yard from those people who will buy and consume "off site"
alcoholic beverages from the gas station. He did not believe Shell Oil would ever be his neighbor.
They were sending the wrong message by wanting to sell beer and wine at their convenience store to
people who drive. Crime is a problem in the area. That is the reason Circle K is no longer open 24
hours. He feared for his family if this is approved. Property values have declined in the area because of
the 2-story construction.
Rene Geyer, 2237 East Vista Canyon Road, reiterated her concerns and feelings. ~ The other five
businesses along the street are not open 24 hours selling beer and wine. The Texaco station is at the
bottom of her steep street. It is not out in the open like the Shell station. Chevron is to the north of
Nohl Ranch Road; it's much further away and will not draw people off of the freeway the way the Shell
station will. There are two entrances to their community. The gas station is in the middle of the two
entrances. She was concerned about criminal activity at the gas station and people escaping into their
neighborhood. There are problems now with the people going up the hill to see the nightly view of
lights. People are drinking and leawng their trash up there. The neighbors do not need to worry about
additional problems.
Jimmy Zepeda, 2727 North Vista Bluff Road, moved into the neighborhood in 1987. On top of the hill is
a beautiful place. Some of the neighbors have negotiated with their gardener to pick up the rnghtly trash
on top of the hill. No matter what is said at this hearing, the plan will go through. He suggested placing
a restriction on the business to close at midnight. The other businesses are allowed to sell liquor; this
one will be allowed to do so as well.
Mr. Stoops added an additional comment. It bothered him that there is a sign on the property that says
the gas station will be open 24 hours. None of the owners remember receiving prior notices and that's
why no one attended the public hearing.
Doug Ramasard, 2020 East Vista Royale, was not told or contacted about the proposed car wash/gas
station. They were told the freeway was going to be changed and redesigned. He was very shocked
when he saw construction beginning at this site.
Jean Zepeda, 2727 North Vista Bluff Road, voiced her opposition to the project.
R utt I
Mr. Klein restated they want to be good neighbors and they are there at that location. They acquired the
site after the CUP was already approved. He didn't have the history of the project. He was willing to
address the neighbor's concerns in person. The last thing they want are angry residents in the
neighborhood. They would like to minimize the impact to the residences as much as possible and try to
negotiate a compromise that would work for everyone. Some of the concerns were irrelevant because
they have nothing to do with the application he has. Staff's recommendation is that they plan to review
the operation on an annual basis. If it is found the business is not being conducted properly, it will be
shut down. He spoke to the Police Department about the kids going to the top of the hill at rnght, and
yes, it is a problem. But, that problem is not caused by the alcohol being sold at the intersection
Circle K). They are hoping to grab a share of the market by selling alcoholic beverages, but it will not
generate more people. Not each business in the block is open 24 hours, but all the uses are already in
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Planning Commission Minutes August 19, 1996
operation, and they sell beer and wine. He didn't know what else one would build on a commercial
corridor right off of a freeway ramp. He would assume it would be this kind of use. He would be willing
to compromise and not stay open 24 hours; to stay open until 12 midnight. He was also willing to have
staff review their business operation every six months.
The public hearing was dosed.
Commissioner Smith wanted to hear Sgt. Weinstein's comments about alcohol sales in the area.
Sgt. Barry Weinstein, Orange Police Department, stated the Circle K does sell alcohol. They recently
changed the license because of the area because the area is considered to be a low crime area. In order
to be a high crime area, there must be 20% crime above the average. The area is not over-concentrated
at this time with alcohol licenses. The Luxor is a private club type of facility. They do not have a liquor
license perse. A caterer serves the dinners on the weekends and the caterer has a license for the
alcoholic beverages. The other gas stations do not sell beer and wine. The Police Department cannot
legally protest a license for the Shell station. In order to protest, the State of California requires that
there be an over-concentration of licenses or be a high crime area, which there is neither at this time. The
Police Department placed conditions on the location pertaining to beer and wine. They also placed the
same conditions on a similar type of operation going in at Main and Katella. The Police Department
requests the sale of alcoholic beverages be permitted between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 9:00 p. m., 7
days a week, with all alcohol being physically secured after 10:00 p.m. The Municipal Code requires that
no advertising for beer and wine be allowed on any part of the property, inside or out. Police
investigators go around on a month)y basis to make sure none of the businesses in Orange who sell both
gas and alcoholic beverages are advertising. At least 99% of the City is free from advertising beer and
wine at gas stations. These conditions should make it a livable situation.
Commissioner Carlton wondered if the residents had considered gating the two entrances into their
neighborhood? Chairman Bosch explained that was something the residents could consider outside this
hearing. They have the right to approach the City on that matter, but it's not something that was part of
the hearing.
Commissioner Romero was not in favor of the Type 20 beer and wine license. He was also not in favor
of the 24 hour time. He did favor the 5:00 a.m. opening for gas and 12 midnight closing.
Commissioner Smith agreed with Commissioner Romero. She appreciated Mr. Klein's offer for a
compromise and the Commission needs to consider that in their decision. Given the fact the other gas
stations in the neighborhood do not sell alcohol, but are open 24 hours, would incline her towards a
compromise of allowing the station to be open 24 hours with restrictions on the car wash, but that alcohol
would not be allowed. The privilege would not be any greater to any vendor of the same product in that
neighborhood. She did not like the coupling of the sale of alcohol with the sale of gasoline. She was
particularly sensitive to that because she had four children between the ages of 18 and 27. The sale of
alcoholic beverages would exacerbate the problem of traffic going to the top of the hill. This is a
residential neighborhood that borders the freeway and this is a service that would be appropriate. It
sounds to her like this is a business proposal and economic issue, which would benefit the individual in
terms of volume of sales. The Planning Commission, however, will make their decision based on land use
rather than the economic features.
Mr. Soo-Hoo stated previously the City of Orange shared the same feeling regarding the concerns
relating to sale of alcoholic beverages together with the sale of motor fuel. However, in the past several
years the State of California has pre-emptied the City's ability to consider that combination of factors.
The City does not have the ability to deny the sale of alcoholic beverages merely because it is in
conjunction with the sale of gasoline.
Commissioner Smith did not believe this was service required by the community in the area because
there were services already provided by the Circle K and also the proximity to Tustin Avenue where
there were many stores where alcohol is sold.
Commissioner Carlton thought the applicant has shown a real willingness to compromise with the hours of
operation. She did not object to the hours of 5:00 a.m. to midnight, or even the 24-hour operation for
gas sales, with restricted hours on alcoholic beverages.
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Planning Commission Minutes August 19, 1996
Chairman Bosch briefly addressed the past actions on the site. The approval of the project that is
currently on the site was related to a conditional use permit requirement for the car wash. The zonin on
the property allows construction of a gasoline station and allows a 2-story building not exceeding 30~eet
in height. Those are not at issue. Any commercial use allowed in the Commercial-Tustin Development
zone could go on that site, including a gas station and 2-story building. The car wash, therefore, was the
issue before the Planning Commission when the buildings currently going up were approved. He had
concerns about lighting and it needs to be carefully controlled, not just through review of plans and
building permits, but afterwards it can be monitored relative to light and noise pollution into the
neighborhood. The City has very specific ordinances requiring containment of light on the site, focusing of
lights into the property rather than off the property, and the noise limitations at the property line -- not at
the residential property line, but at the commercial property line. Those need to be rigorously enforced.
Conditional Use Permits go with the land, not with the operator. No one has seen the use in operation
yet. It would be nice to see it work and to see how it runs. At this point no one knows what the
detriment will be to the neighborhood other than those problems voiced by those attending the hearing.
He understood the restriction about speaking to the relationship of gasoline sales and alcohol beverage
sales. So he presumes the controls that are in place by the State are adequate to protect them in that
regard, and as substantially added to by the Police Department in all cases where it has been approved.
He was comfortable with those restrictions where the site is appropriate within the neighborhood. That
was his concern here with regard to the alcoholic beverages. It's the site itself, immediately adjacent to
the freeway off ramp. It isn't serving a community need and is a source of potential deterioration of the
community. It has nothing to do with gasoline sales -- it's the alcoholic beverage sales on such a site. He
was opposed to the sale of alcoholic beverages on this site, from whatever type of land use was there.
He has voted in favor of a combination of gasoline and alcoholic beverages sales at other sites within the
community that are not immediately adjacent to the freeway on and off ramp. He would agree with the
Police Department's recommendation to limit the hours of operation and all the other conditions that
apply. But, he was personally against the sale of alcoholic beverages altogether because of the land
use issues and proximity to the freeway. With regard to hours of operation, that's a tougher one for him.
He didn't want to impose any more on the community. There are a lot of gasoline stations in the area
now. He concurred that the 5:00 a.m. to midnight operating hours for gasoline sales should be more than
adequate. He believed they had some measure of involvement in economics with regard to the land
uses, but those economic concerns relate to sound principles of land use and services required by the
community, and relationship to its effect on the community, as is stated in the requirements for finding a
conditional use permit. And, as has been allowed for on this site by allowing gasoline sales and retail
sales of a variety type within the zoning ordinance. The potential for noise and light intrusions from the
site to specific adjacent residential areas and the overwhelming abundance of gasoline sales in the area
seems to indicate that 5:00 a.m. to midnight may be appropriate. He would be willing to support a
motion that would grant an extension of hours, but he was opposed to the combination of alcoholic
beverage sales and gasoline.
Commissioner Smith said the Commission was 2-2 on the 5:00 a.m. to midnight vs. 24 hours. She asked
to allow the 24 hour operation simply based on the fact it is a privilege enjoyed by the adjacent gas
stations. She stands on her deasion that she does not feel it is an appropriate place for the sale of
alcoholic beverages.
Commissioner Carlton would be in favor of the 24 hour operation. It wasn't fair to restrict one with the
other •two in place. She was also willing to go along with a compromise. She would approve the
gasoline sales along with the sale of beer and wine.
Commissioner Smith believed she heard the neighbors say the Texaco station operated 24 hours, as
well as Chevron operated 24 hours. And that, Union 76 on Tustin operated 24 hours. (Texaco was not
open 24 hours.)
Chairman Bosch asked if a gas station on a specific site were allowed by right and there was no other
action involving a conditional use permit, was there any mechanism in the City ordinance that restricts hours
of operation?
Mr. Jones responded commercial uses, unless there was some discretionary action attached to them, are
typically permitted by right. For example, if it were just a convenience store or service station allowed
by right, they would have the option of operating 24 hours.
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Planning Commission Minutes August 19, 1996
Chairman Bosch believed fairness was something that relates to fairness to the whole community. He
didn't believe that because five or six things occur in one way that it necessarily makes it right when thereisfoundtobeamajorproblem. He was willing to go with the applicant's desire to be a good neighborwithregardtogasolinesalesto5:00 a.m. to midnight, but he was not willing to go for 24 hours.
It was noted this project was exempt from CEQA review.
Moved by Chairman Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Smith, to recommend to the City Council
Modification to Conditional Use Permit 1981-92 with the indusion of conditions 1, 3, 6, 7, 15, 16, 17, 18 and
delete conditions 2, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10,11, 12, 13, 14 as they relate to the sale of alcoholic beverages; and add
a new condition to modify the previously approved hours of operation for gasoline sales only and allow
gasoline sales from 5:00 a.m. to midnight, 7 days a week. This denies the request for the sale of alcoholic
beverages at this site. It was found that the hours of operation were greater than that, which is an
adjustment from the previous approval, and are not in response to services required by the communitysincesaidservicesareavailableonawidespreadbasisintheimmediatevicirnty. Approval of longerhoursoralcoholicsaleswouldcausedeteriorationofborderinglandusesorcreatespecialproblemsin
the area in which the station is located. With regard to the gasoline operation hours, due to noise, lightandintrusionupontheimmediatelyadjacentresidentialareas; with regard to the request for alcoholic
beverages and due to the specific location of the site, adjacent to the on and off ramp to the freeway,inviting major problems to the community as demonstrated by intrusions with alcohol use within the
adjacent residential neighborhood. The relationship to its effect on the neighborhood or community plansthelandusewaslookedatassupportingtheneighborhoodinOrange; not as freewaylcommercial. A
variety of uses would support that, including the gasoline sales with extended hours; however, they have
already seen the very negative effect on the area in which it is located by off-sale liquor. Preserving the
general welfare would be assisted by the extended gasoline hours and by the denial of alcoholic
beverage sales. Only the individual welfare of the applicant would be gained by the sale of alcoholic
beverages. The applicant had indicated a willingness to compromise on the hours of operation for
gasoline sales of 5:00 a.m. to midnight, 7 days a week in the interest of being a good neighbor.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Romero, Smith
NOES: Commissioner Carlion
ABSENT: Commissioner Pruett MOTION CARRIED
Mr. Jones explained the procedures staff will follow to forward this item on to the City Council for publichearing. The hearing will occur in approximately 30 to 45 days from Planning Commission action.
Notification will also be made; there was a request from the homeowner's association to be notified as
well, and staff will send them a notice. Others who wish to be notified may contact the Planning staff.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Romero, seconded by Commissioner Carlton, to adjourn the meeting at
8:45 p.m.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Carlton, Romero, Smith
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Pruett MOTION CARRIED
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