HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-06-1992 PC MinutesMINUTES
Planning Commission July 6,1992
City of Orange Monday - 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Alvarez, Bosch, Cathcart, Murphy, Smith
ABSENT: None
STAFF
PRESENT: John Godlewski, Administrator of Current Planning;
Gary Johnson, City Engineer;
Bob Herrick, Assistant City Attorney; and
Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: MINUTES OF JUNE 15.1992
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Murphy, to
approve the Minutes of June 15, 1992 as recorded.
AYES: Commissioners Alvarez, Bosch, Cathcart, Murphy, Smith
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: ITEM TO BE CONTINUED
ZONE CHANGE 1 151-92 -CITY OF ORANGE ON BEHALF OF 19 PROPERTY
OWNERS
A request to change the zoning classification from R-2-6 Residential
Duplex District to the R-4 Residential Maximum Multiple Family
district for the property. Subject property consists of 19 parcels
located north of Palm Avenue on both sides of the 300 North Olive Block
and the east side of the 300 North Lemon Street block, exclusive of the
Orange Unified School District Headquarters property.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1408-92 has been prepared to address
the environmental impacts of this report.
This item was continued from the May
Planning Commission Minutes
Jere Murphy, Manager of Ad
report. The Commission cc
requesting staff to look at
that meeting. Those questi
the 20% Housing Set Aside
loss related to the propose
the Redevelopment Agency
set aside funds would bE
development of new afforda
used to offset any economic
between different zones c
discussed this matter exte
who might do the work
difference in value of a var
way from an existing singly
unit. The six different s~
include all of the basic alter
July 6, 1992
anced Planning, presented an updated staff
itinued this item from the May 4 meeting
some of the questions that were raised at
ins revolve around two issues: 1) Whether
unds could be used to help offset economic
re-zoning. Staff has discussed this with
end the only expenditure of those housing
for assistance to the rehabilitation or
ale housing units; those funds could not be
loss in value on the property. 2) The value
r developed parcels of land. Staff has
sively and talked to several consultants
to provide information identifying the
qty of different development types all the
family dwelling unit up to a new 4-plex
enarios listed in the staff report would
natives for the Old Towne area. Staff still
has some work to do with regard to how the study might be performed,
who would perform it, what the cost might be of that study. Staff
recommends the Commission continue this matter for two more weeks
so that they would have additional time to discuss the matter and
attempt to determine where the source of funds might come from.
Commissioner Murphy stated there was one additional request from T.
J. Clark, who requested his statement be read into the Minutes. He
received a memorandum from Jere Murphy on June 29 indicating subject
zone change had been scheduled for July 6. He was previously verbally
advised this meeting would be on July 8 due to the 4th of July holiday.
Having made plans and commitments he was unable to attend the 6th
and requested a postponement to the 20th of July.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Murphy to
continue Zone Change 1 151-92 to the July 20, 1992 meeting.
AYES: Commissioners Alvarez, Bosch, Cathcart, Murphy, Smith
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARING
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1973-92 - ALBERTSON'S INC.
A site plan review for a commercial center, in accordance with the
requirements of the Upper Peters Canyon Specific Plan, and a
conditional use permit request to allow the construction of a car wash
and two drive-thru restaurants within the commercial center, and to
allow the sale of alcoholic beverages from a proposed supermarket and
drug store within the commercial center. Subject property is located
at the southwest corner of Chapman Avenue and Jamboree Road.
N E• The environmental impacts of this project have previously
been analyzed by certified Environmental Impact Report 868.
This item was continued from the June 15, 1992 meeting.)
Also included in the staff report is a request that the Commission make
a determination on the on-site coverage requirements as specified in
the Specific Plan. Staff has received a number of letters from the
neighbors concerning the access on White Oak. It should be pointed out
that issues of access on Jamboree and Chapman is to be considered a
separate issue that will go before the City Council. There are
dedicated access rights on Jamboree and Chapman which must be
cleared up by Council action. A recommendation on those items would
also be appreciated.
Chris Carnes, Assistant Planner, presented the staff report. The
proposal is to construct a new commercial shopping center at the
southwest corner of Jamboree and Chapman. The specifics of the
proposal include the construction of a large building that would contain
two large tenant spaces anticipated to be for a super market and a drug
store, with several small connecting multi-tenant spaces between
them. There would be four satellite buildings in the parking lot for the
center. The satellite buildings are anticipated to be used for two fast
food restaurants and one of them is anticipated for the mini-mart and
an office for a proposed gas station and car wash. The project is
bordered by Jamboree on the east, Chapman on the north, and White Oak
Ridge on the south. It's surrounding land uses include a joint police
station and fire facility on its southeast border, single family
residences to the southwest, the Santiago Junior College on the north
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
side of Chapman; there are condominiums on the west side of the site
and vacant land to the east. The subject site is unique in that the
southwest corner (a portion of the site) is 20 feet higher than White
Oak Ridge. It's 30 feet higher that the condominiums adjacent to the
site on the west and it's 20 feet lower than the intersection of
Jamboree and Chapman. It has several large slopes bordering it on all
sides. The proposal includes a major off site improvement which would
be the removal of the existing landscaping planter on Chapman and
replacing it with two left turn lanes to turn into the site. This would
allow eventual traffic coming from the east to turn into the site
without having to turn onto Jamboree. There have been numerous calls
from the neighbors today. Their main concern was with the driveway
on White Oak Ridge. The additional traffic could not be handled by
White Oak Ridge, which is considered a residential street. There would
be an increase in air pollution and that there would be an increase of
driving hazards to children who cross White Oak Ridge to go to the
community park and school.
Commissioner Smith asked where the school and park were located in
relation to the shopping center?
Mr. Carnes pointed out the location of the school and park on the exhibit
posted on the wall. Subject site was designated as Lot 14. Lots 1 1, 10
and 9 are the park sites and school. Children living in the areas of 1
and 12 would have to cross White Oak Ridge to access the park and
school.
The public hearing was opened.
Applicant
Scott Thayer, 1180 West Lambert Road, Brea, is the real estate
manager for Albertson's. He walked the Commission through the
project and gave more detail to the site plan and elevations.
Chairman Cathcart clarified they were referring to the revised plan of
June 24, 1992.
Mr. Thayer said the site is approximately 13 acres. It is accessed with
one full turning movement off of Chapman. They also have a right in
and right out at two access points off of Jamboree. There is another
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
full turning movement off of White Oak Ridge. Their proposal includes
the site plan and conditional use permits, fast food drive location, the
car wash, as well as liquor sales in both Albertson's and Longs Drug
Store. For pedestrians, the site will have good access. Pedestrians can
walk through the Chapman entrance, all around the perimeter of the
center and also get down to the meandering sidewalk at the patio
location, down at the most southerly point on Jamboree and also off of
White Oak. They're trying to use as much of the site as possible. A lot
of landscaping is around the perimeter. The shops, A, B and C, are
approximately 2200 square feet. He showed the Commission the
elevations for Albertson's and Longs Drug and explained the proposed
design. They were trying to obtain a "village" look. He realizes the rear
elevations might be a concern. Treatment to the back of the center,
along with enhanced landscaping, will be pleasing to the eye. The
slopes will contain many trees and other landscaping material to buffer
the rear elevations from the neighboring community. He reviewed the
staff report and had some issues, but preferred to address them after
hearing the neighbor's input.
Those speaking in opposition
Paula Clark Wayne, 8215 East White Oak Ridge, #92, was opposed to the
entrance on White Oak Ridge. She was concerned about the amount of
traffic on that street, there is no stop light, and statistics indicate
they are going to double the traffic on White Oak Ridge. It would be
prudent to look at a pedestrian access and ramp rather than a street
leading into the proposed shopping center. She wanted the Commission
to re-consider that entrance and exit on White Oak Ridge as it would be
detrimental to the entire area. The neighbors are aware they are
closing the Garden Grove campus for Rancho Santiago Community
College and adding 3,000 new students to the Orange campus. She was
concerned those statistics were not included with the traffic
statistics and the general population will be using White Oak Ridge as
an access to the shopping center.
Akira Okazaki, 8343 East Star Pine Road, recently moved into the area.
He takes issue with the traffic and safety of the children. There is a
blind curve towards the proposed entrance on White Oak Ridge.
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
Jeanette Okazaki, 8343 East Star Pine Road, participated in the signing
of the petitions. Everyone has expressed concern about the traffic and
noise. She asked if they will smell the trash from the center?
Bob Hahn, 7620 East Briarcrest Lane, was glad Albertson's has made a
proposal to develop the commercial center; however, he does not agree
with the proposal because of the access road directly behind the fire
station. That road is very narrow. Cars park on White Oak Ridge.
People cannot safely walk, jog or ride a bike down that street without
fear of being hit.
Dave DeLorenzo, 120 South Sage Hills Road, said White Oak Ridge is not
even marked with a lane down the middle. It is two lanes wide, but
there is no marking on the street. His issues include traffic and
maintenance of the berm level. Was any consideration given to backing
up the shopping center to Jamboree and Chapman in a "L" shape so that
truck and trash access would be off those two main streets with no
residential area; thus reducing the noise and traffic?
Kevin O'Connell, 7702 East Knollwood Drive, was concerned about the
amount of traffic on White Oak and making access as far as the
driveway. He suggested additional police in the area to enforce traffic
or even a stop sign.
Mark Ross, 8131 East Candleberry Circle, said his main concern was
access onto White Oak Ridge. Alcohol sales will add to the safety
danger. Was White Oak Ridge designed to hold additional traffic? How
high is that block wall going to be built? Will it be designed for noise
reduction?
Cheryl Mottel-Fanten, 7935 Fox Run Lane, was concerned about the
sound wall issue and landscaping for the area. There's still a lot of
noise on Chapman Avenue.
Janet Gaaut, 8339 East Flowerwood Avenue, was thrilled to have
Albertson's come in; it's going to be an improvement for the area. No
one wants the shopping center to fail and not be successful. By
eliminating that White Oak entrance, she didn't think it would be
detrimental to the shopping center. She spoke about the 3,000 students
being added to the Orange campus, which is approximately 1,800
additional trips -- there will be additional traffic just from the
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
college (something that was not included in the original traffic
studies). The sight vision is not the best because it is on a curved area.
Mary Miller, 122 South Sage Hills Road, felt their area was a
residential community and White Oak Ridge was presented to them as a
residential street. She's worried about the noise, air pollution and the
hazard to the children in the park. Access on White Oak Ridge would
devaluate their properties.
Tom Mayer, 160 North Dogwood Street, is at the park every weekend.
There is a limited amount of parking at the park and it overflows
rapidly. Cars must park on White Oak Ridge. Most of the traffic
generated for the shopping center will use White Oak Ridge because it
is a short cut. Was the degree of that curve considered in the plans?
Craig Miller, 7926 East Briarwood, passed out a picture of the area
from the neighbor's perspective and he highlighted the green belt area
from the school to the park, across White Oak Ridge, extending to the
corner of Chapman and Newport. The highlighted crosswalk is used
quite often by residents in the community. The park is the community
center for all of them. With the proposed exit on White Oak, the
neighbors are concerned about the traffic coming down that area.
Pam Arden, 8215 East White Oak Ridge, #121, was concerned about the
traffic increase, volume of cars traveling White Oak Ridge, increased
noise, air pollution and the issue of trucks exiting onto White Oak Ridge
using that entrance. That will be a major problem, especially with the
children crossing to and from school and going to the park. She felt the
traffic studies which were based on the Northeast County Traffic Model
were not representative of their area, especially the street being as
narrow as it was. Did the City do a noise impact study? A stairway or
some type of walk way for handicapped access was suggested at White
Oak Ridge. Another concern were the truck deliveries between the
hours of 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Special problems will be created with
the increased traffic volume and the safety factor for the children.
Ashley Fellowes MacCarthy, 8247 East Star Pine Road, wrote a letter to
the Commission, which was included in their packets. She also
submitted another petition of 150 signatures opposing the project. The
community does not want the White Oak Ridge entrance. By adding the
additional commercial traffic, it will fundamentally alter the
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
character of their neighborhood. It will put children's lives at risk,
particularly near the park and it will expose the City to an unnecessary
liability. The community urged the Commission to eliminate the White
Oak entry/exit plan from the Albertson's proposal.
Michael Bohlig, 8315 East White Oak Ridge, #24, opposed the White Oak
Ridge entrance.
Craig Clark, 8207 East Star Pine Road, voiced his concern regarding the
entrance/exit off of White Oak Ridge. By deleting this exit, the
developer will still have the needed circulation. He suggested doing
away with the entrance/exit and leave the walkway; then add some
stairs and a light near the greenbelt.
Leslea Meyerhoff, 229 North Lazy Meadow Road, requested a
continuance because the environmental documentation used to support
this project, the Upper Peter's Canyon Specific Plan EIR, adopted in
1984, was based on 1979 data collected when the draft EIR was
prepared. This data is outdated and inadequate to provide assurance
that no significant environmental impacts would occur upon
implementation of the proposed project. Under existing and proposed
AQMD air quality guidelines, the proposed Albertson's shopping center
requires that an EIR be prepared to assess all environmental impacts
associated with the proposed project which include (in addition to air
quality) traffic, noise and safety issues.
Craig Kegel, 361 Fawnwood Lane, asked if access onto White Oak Ridge
is really needed? Truck parking and access is an issue. Where will
they park?
Scott Rutledge, 229 North Lazy Meadow Drive, expressed his concern
over four specific areas with regard to the White Oak Ridge entrance:
the traffic capacity on White Oak Ridge, noise and air quality concerns,
as well as safety.
Philip Quartararo, 8215 East
capacity of White Oak was;
also asked about the short
project. The potential for
development.
White Oak Ridge, asked what the design
what it was originally designed for? He
and long term effects because of this
increased traffic is evident with more
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
Craig Wooldridge, 8215 East White Oak Ridge, #9, voiced concern about
the traffic and safety issues. The easiest solution for exiting the
center will be to use White Oak Ridge. Total traffic will be more than
30%. He wondered if the entrance off of Chapman could be moved down
further onto Chapman or maybe get the trucks to enter and exit off of
Jamboree as a further noise reduction. How do we make those truck
drivers follow the rules of the developer? He was unhappy about a
blanket" C.U.P. approval.
Frank Luketich, 8244 Star Pine Road, felt noise and safety for the
children were issues of concern. He was a little suspicious to the
initial design of that entrance on White Oak Ridge. He hopes the City
doesn't blindly sign off on the agreement for the entire development
while using the entrance on White Oak as a bargaining chip. He was
concerned about noise, the Santa Ana winds blowing and creating more
trash, odor, smell and sale of alcoholic beverages. He would like some
guarantees as to the time the trucks will be able to deliver to the
shopping center. He would also like to know the hours of construction.
He requested the elimination of access for 18 wheelers on White Oak.
Steve MacCarthy, 8247 Star Pine Road, said they live in a well planned
community; it was designed so that people could walk through it with
their dogs and kids. It was designed as a residential community. No
one is opposed to the shopping center, but that entrance would impose a
lot of commercial traffic. He can't see the reason to alter the nature
of the community when you have two very busy roads out there
Jamboree and Chapman).
Gretchen Staff, 215 North Deerwood, doesn't understand the necessity
to have a back entrance to the shopping center.
Robert Matson, 8324 East Candleberry Circle, said the average rate of
speed is not 25 or 35 m.p.h.; it is definitely a blind corner. He's
opposed to the possibility of increased noise pollution. He obtained
signatures on petitions for the White Oak Ridge opposition. A number
of houses on White Oak Ridge are up for sale because there is too much
noise and traffic on the street now. He urged the Commission to
reconsider the plan and to remove that entrance and exit off of White
Oak Ridge.
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
Scott Anderson, 176 Shadow Pines, said if the access were eliminated,
there will still be a major traffic problem. Could the City help the
developer to find a better way for an entrance/exit into the center?
buttal
Mr. Thayer jotted down all the concerns he heard and went through
them. The major comment heard was the White Oak access. With any
retail development, access is very important in order for the center to
survive. Without good access to the center, it dies. In designing the
center, they were trying to get people in and out as safely as possible.
A traffic signal at Chapman would be great as it would ease up the
circulation in that center and provide a safe turning movement. But
there is no signal there and people leaving the center will be making a
left hand turn and will not be protected at this time. Some people who
do not like turning left, will use the White Oak access. That's why the
design was there. As development occurs, there will be increased
traffic and noise. These concerns were addressed in the studies that
were the formula for this project. A traffic study was done, as well as
a noise study. As part of the noise study, they have eliminated any
truck deliveries to the shopping center during the night time hours.
Those hours are between 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. They are aware the
community does not want truck deliveries during the night. There is a
six foot wall along the condominium project which is sufficient and
will keep them within the City's noise standards. They have an 8 foot
wall to the rear of the shopping center, and a 9 foot wall backing up to
the fire station/police facility. The noise study was analyzed in great
detail as it relates to the surrounding community. The shopping center
is within the City's noise ordinance. There will be no truck movement
on White Oak Ridge. They have a map showing how to access the center
and how to leave and at what times they are to occur. This map is at
all of their stores. There will be increased traffic; it's something that
comes with development. They have asked for the sale of alcohol in
Albertson's and Longs Drug Store. They have not asked for a proposed
restaurant or service station. If that should occur, those developments
will need to go through the C.U.P. process. The pad level or berm will
remain approximately the same, give or take a few feet. There will be
some grading that has to take place to recompact the shopping center
so that the buildings can stand. He was not aware of the increased
enrollment at the College. A traffic study was done as part of the
project. The proposed design will work best because parking lot
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
lighting and fast food establishments would impact the residences if
they flipped the buildings to a reversed configuration. They are not
asking fora "blanket" C.U.P.; only for two fast food tenants and the
service station. They will stay within the City's time frame for
construction of the shopping center.
Joe Faust, principal with the firm of Austin-Faust Associates, did do
the traffic study on this project. With regard to the student population
of Rancho Santiago, a lot of concern was expressed that students would
use White Oak Ridge to get around the system. That's probably true.
They were included in the traffic study. They looked at the
development in 1997 and that includes as part of the Northeast Orange
County Model the complete ultimate build out of Rancho Santiago
College. With a major center you would expect at least 60% at the main
entrance; the other 40% must be split up somewhere -- 30% may go to
that rear area driveway. White Oak Ridge is a 2 lane collector street
and will result in additional traffic. It will typically have a maximum
capacity of 9,000 to 10,000 cars per day. They're looking at a 25%
reduction in that maximum capacity given the parking, curves and all
the other restrictions of White Oak Ridge. A traffic count has been
made out there and it's carrying between 1,500 and 2,000 cars a day.
This project will impose another 1,600 trips on it. He suggested maybe
the City wants to look at signalization. If you close that rear
driveway, that 30% will be re-distributed and will go to the main
entrance. This location will surpass the minimum signal warrants and
impose additional difficulty on traffic trying to get in and out.
Chairman Cathcart said given the present economics of the situation
that there won't be a lot of development to the east at this time, it
will be south. A lot of the traffic coming to the center will come up
Jamboree. There's no way for them to access the center from Jamboree
coming north. How do you feel about that?
Mr. Faust said with the rear area access there is an opportunity to turn
left and come in the back door. Failing that, however, then you have to
turn left at the signal at Chapman and essentially make the left turn
into the main entrance. He didn't think it was practical to look at two
major entrances on Chapman and Jamboree. The project would love to
have two, but in terms of the raised medians, there can only be one. It
seems to fit best on Chapman.
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
Commissioner Alvarez asked if there were other alternatives
considered such as a restricted area (entrance only or exit only)?
Mr. Faust said they did not examine if it was only going to be an
entrance only or exit only.
Mr. Thayer commented on trash collection. They have a trash compactor
at the rear of the store. The operation of that will be restricted to
operating between the hours of 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. The odor/smell
should be well contained. It's a steel machine, fully covered and gets
picked up when it is full. He did not know if a deodorizer is used for
the compactor.
Commissioner Bosch asked why they elected to design the center with
the shops Ling to the back side, rather than the L of the shops to
Chapman and Jamboree?
Mr. Thayer said they like to design the center towards the front of the
two major streets for visibility purposes. It's a safer area for people
because it is not blocked.
Commissioner Bosch asked about delivery truck circulation patterns?
Mr. Thayer said truck movement would come in from Chapman and wrap
around the shopping center to the rear to the loading docks shown on
the site plan. They will exit either Jamboree Road or go back through
the shopping center and exit onto Chapman. It's aone-way loop behind
the stores.
Commissioner Bosch asked for an alternative that might keep the truck
noise away from the west property line adjacent to the condominiums?
Is there a practical way to handle deliveries without having the one-
way loop behind the buildings?
Mr. Thayer responded no, not the way the site plan is shown. The truck
movements were taken into consideration in the sound study and are
within the noise levels of the City.
Commissioner Bosch said another question that came up related to both
noise and traffic and is operating hours for the proposed drive-thru
restaurants. The concern was that of 24-hour operations.
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
Mr. Thayer has not looked at the hours of operation for the fast food
operations. They must, however, abide by the rules that are in place at
that time.
Commissioner Murphy asked if they have reviewed both staff
report/documents and conditions of approval?
Mr. Thayer referred to Page 1 -- Pad "G" needing 20 feet of interior
turning radius. He explained their reasons for easier movement.
Commissioner Murphy was afraid certain types of vehicles would be
unable to make that turn. That's a tough spot.
Mr. Thayer would like clarification on a 20 foot inside radius.
Mr. Glass said the design turn radius used for passenger vehicles has an
outside radius of approximately 30 feet and an inside tracking of about
20 feet. He's not sure about trucks around the same corner to be able
to make the turn without getting into the on-coming lanes. A radius
the size of 32 feet might be needed.
Mr. Thayer referred to the July 1 report and addressed item 2 in which
it said some or all of the surplus parking shall be removed from the
site plan and additional landscaping shall be provided. This additional
landscaping area shall be located adjacent to the sidewalks in front of
the buildings in the central area of the parking lot. He doesn't see that
to be necessary. They try to get as much parking in from the shopping
center for the patrons. That is vital parking for them. Item 3 states
the DRB shall specifically review the rear elevation, sidewalk and
paving material and placement of landscaping planters. They are shown
on the site plan. They still must go before the D.R.B. and recognize
there may be some comments. Item 5 -there shall not be any truck
deliveries between the hours of 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m.; he concurs with
that. He doesn't understand the last two -- Sundays and holidays.
Mr. Carnes responded that condition was added because Sundays and
holidays are the same requirements as evenings. If you're meeting the
code requirements in the evenings, you also have to meet them on
Sundays and holidays.
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
Mr. Thayer continued with item 8, adequate site distances be provided
at all driveways....to the satisfaction of the City Traffic Engineer.
Their concern is making sure that the full turning movement access is
not eliminated. He would hate to see an approval today and then the
City come back to say they are going to take away the left hand turning
movement. That would hurt the center severely. He wants to make sure
they have full turning movements at a major arterial. Item 10, the
eight parking spaces in front of shop A. They're asking them to be
eliminated. Originally, four were eliminated. That building needs the
rest of the parking spaces to make it work. Item 1 1, the sidewalk off
of Jamboree, going down the driveway closest to the intersection --
staff is asking for a five foot sidewalk being added at that point. He
believed by adding the serpentine sidewalk going down to the 5500
square foot pad that gets the people down into the shopping center
without having to go down a driveway. They have provided access into
the shopping center at that point. Referring to Page 6, #4 and #5, they
would like to make sure that the design of the shopping center and the
shops are such that the patrons can use the front of the center. They
would be willing to specify that the rear doors to the shops have
windows placed in them so that the merchants can keep on eye on what
is going on out there.
Commissioner Alvarez wanted to address the sidewalk at the northern
driveway on Jamboree. Staff is convinced that the driveway would be
used as a sidewalk rather than the serpentine walkway. Have you
considered reversing it to create a jog and then come the other way?
Mr. Thayer said they had a plan showing that, but they were trying to
meet the handicapped requirements. That driveway is at a 10% grade.
It's his understanding the maximum handicapped is 8.3%. That was
eliminated in lieu of putting in the serpentine sidewalk to keep it
accessible to the handicapped.
Commissioner Alvarez asked him to consider marking it so that people
getting off the bus would be directed in that way rather than the
driveway? (They're not opposed to that.)
Commissioner Murphy understood the sidewalk is an additional expense,
but probably small in comparison to the overall cost of the project.
Could a second sidewalk be considered?
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
Mr. Thayer said they would eliminate the serpentine sidewalk and use
the other.
Commissioner Murphy asked what would happen if you had both? The
idea is to provide a safe alternative pass for those that might take
human nature at its extreme and take a straight course to where
they're headed.
Mr. Thayer thought if you provided people with a means to get down into
the center, they will use it. He doesn't believe people will go down a
driveway if they provide them with the access shown on the plan.
Mr. Godlewski said it was staff's concern to put in a sidewalk at that
point due to the bus stop location.
Mr. Thayer said all sidewalks are handicapped accessible.
Commissioner Murphy said on the original staff report, Page 6, #1 1, it
talked about off site improvements associated with implementation of
project. In Section A it mentions the two driveways on Jamboree shall
each be 35 feet wide with one travel lane entering and exiting. He
noticed on the last plan the dimensions are noted 30 and 40 feet. What
is the accurate measurement?
Mr. Thayer is using the current plan and feels that is accurate. It is to
provide more landscaping as an entrance focal point. They thought they
could live with the smaller drive to obtain that. It was wider.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Bosch had a couple of questions. First, with regard to
White Oak Ridge. It's clear there are problems on White Oak regardless
of this application that should be addressed by the City. He would like
to recommend that staff be directed to undertake a field study of
existing traffic conditions on White Oak Ridge relative to the
desirability of adding striping, speed controls (including additional
stop signs) and perhaps some restrictions relative to providing
adequate vision zones at intersections, driveways and parking lot
entrances. These may be up to standards, but it sounds like there are
serious concerns. A look at this by the Traffic Division is needed to
assure everything has been done to provide for safety in the area. He
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
recommends staff make that study and bring their recommendations to
the Traffic Commission for either verifying either the adequacy or
maximization of safety measures on the street, or recommended
additional improvements to mitigate the problems.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Murphy, to
recommend to the the City Council that staff be directed to undertake a
field study of existing traffic conditions on White Oak Ridge relative to
the desirability of adding striping, speed controls (including additional
stop signs) and perhaps some restrictions relative to providing
adequate vision zones at intersections, driveways and parking lot
entrances. It is further recommended the Traffic Division staff make
that study and bring their recommendations to the Traffic Commission
for either verifying either the adequacy or maximization of safety
measures on the street, or recommended additional improvements to
mitigate the problems.
AYES: Commissioners Alvarez, Bosch, Cathcart, Murphy, Smith
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Bosch's second question was relative to the viability of
Certified Environmental Impact Report 868 because it was written in
1984. He doesn't have major doubts about it himself, but it's important
to get a legal reading relative to how CEQA views a continued
application of an older EIR as it applies to subsequent developments.
Mr. Herrick responded the Commission is the body that has the ultimate
authority to make determinations as far as the recommendation to the
Council, and determining whether or not CEQA has been complied with.
There is no rule of law that indicates that EIR data is to be disregarded
merely because of the passage of time. The determination is based
upon whether or not there has been a substantial negative change in the
impacts or circumstances that would justify an additional
environmental impact report. That determination can be made by the
Commission based on the factual testimony they receive, technical
input from staff and the public's testimony which is of a factual
nature.
Commissioner Bosch said the EIR document is in place to fulfill the
needs of the development of this site if there are adequate mitigation
measures for the impacts on the site. The key is traffic, noise, and
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
circulation problems. He made a couple of general observations. He's
opposed to the driveway on White Oak as well. By eliminating the
driveway is to assure the residents that the non residents of Santiago
Hills won't be using the driveway to the shopping center.
Unfortunately, he didn't think it will make a whole lot of traffic
difference overall on White Oak, but it becomes Santiago Hills traffic
primarily. It's unreasonable to expect that the City can guarantee there
will be no delivery trucks that would take short cuts despite the
elimination of the driveway. He thought they should look into
requirements of signage at the entrance on Fort Road to be placed to
limit commercial vehicle traffic. The truck circulation through the
site with the one-way loop is really only the practical way to do it.
You're going to have many more problems, noise and danger by trying to
back and fill turning the trucks around. There's another issue to White
Oak that should be addressed. He proposes to add a condition indicating
there would be no construction access off of White Oak to the site. It's
a key problem. If the Commission acts to approve the C.U.P. requests,
that they set operating hours for the drive-thrus. He proposed a
condition limiting the operating hours of any of the drive-thrus to the
hours of 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. A letter was received from the
developer addressed to the City Manager July 6 relative to the potential
for a signal on Chapman Avenue. He concurred that it be included in the
study for traffic mitigation of future development in East Orange. He
shares the concerns about the drive thru pad adjacent to Chapman -the
20 foot inside radius. He didn't like the design there. It's not going to
be marketable and it will cause traffic congestion. He would like to
see a re-design of a portion of the site with regard to the exiting of the
drive-thru to remove that condition.
Chairman Cathcart had a concern about the internal traffic circulation
on the site. He would like to see Pad G removed and brought back to the
Commission.
Commissioner Murphy said the other piece to that is the consideration
of the truck traffic concerning that turn out that main driveway.
Commissioner Bosch thought the sidewalk problem adjacent to Pad E
can be resolved by moving the terminus of the sidewalk at Jamboree
Road being in close proximity to the driveway at Jamboree with
appropriate signage to encourage people to utilize that. He had a
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
problem with walks immediately adjacent to the main circulation
points.
Commissioner Smith was opposed to the driveway on White Oak. Are
semi-trucks permitted on White Oak because it is a residential street?
No.) That concern then is already addressed in the code. The EIR
concerned her.
Mr. Herrick said the reference made during the hearing was to an AQMD
handbook for implementation of CEQA. He has not seen that particular
document, but it is not a document that is binding on the City as far as
it's CEQA review. The City is bound by the State's guidelines, which do
not have a specific reference to shopping centers of any square footage
requiring such a study.
Commissioner Smith was in favor of the surplus parking because that's
one of the places the City falls short in the shopping developments. You
can never find a parking place. She would be in favor of the surplus
parking plan for the future. Her concern with the project is the north
bound traffic on Jamboree that can't get into the shopping center. That
needs to be looked at because it will generate traffic problems.
Commissioner Murphy suggested a condition to establish a testing
procedure to validate that the attenuation of sound is being handled
within the guidelines of City regulations.
Commissioner Bosch suggested six months and 12 months after
occupancy of both the anchor stores.
Commissioner Murphy explained the difference between off-site liquor
licenses and on-site licenses to make sure the neighbors understood
the request. There are site coverage issues that need to be discussed.
The other issue is what does the closing of the White Oak access do to
the overall circulation of the center and are there other things being
created that have to be looked at from a design standpoint? There
needs to be clarification on this issue.
Commissioner Alvarez wondered if the developer had looked at the
option of making it restricted? If it were restricted by an exit only, it
would reduce the impacts on it. If they remove the White Oak access
completely, it would bring on the necessity of a traffic signal. It
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
sounds like some type of development agreement is being requested.
He's in favor of the White Oak access, but it needs to be restricted.
Chairman Cathcart was adamantly opposed to the ingress/egress on
White Oak only because the people are strongly opposed to it. He has a
problem with Pad G and the turning radius. He had a problem with
giving the developer an agreement that says there will be a stop light
at Chapman because Chapman is an east/west arterial and it will lose
its effectiveness if a stop light is added. There's a traffic
ingress/egress problem at this corner. It has to be looked at a little
more carefully. He wants to see this project developed; the elevations
of the building are beautiful. It can be a great asset to the community.
Commissioner Bosch said they had a catch 22 situation. He thought at
this time a signal at the driveway on Chapman is a bad idea, but he
didn't have any proof of that. The Irvine Company had a decent
suggestion to throw that into the traffic analysis for the first phase of
development of East Orange.
There also needed to be some discussion on coverage. The Upper Peter's
Canyon Specific Plan sets a 70% combination of some definition of
total paving, parking spaces, drive aisles and buildings vs. the 76% that
is proposed with this project if the major drive aisles are included.
Commissioner Bosch was not clear whether the Specific Plan is a rock
solid 70% or it's a guideline that has leeway based upon the actual
constraints imposed by the site and any benefits from the plan before
them.
Mr. Godlewski believed the Specific Plan does have some leeway. This
is the only commercial site addressed in the Specific Plan. Certainly,
any decision the Commission makes is precedent only on this particular
parcel. The Specific Plan states that coverage will be determined by
building footprints and parking areas. The Upper Peter's Canyon
Specific Plan states that the building site coverage of principal
structures and parking areas shall equate to 70% of the site coverage.
The lower plan shown on the wall indicates those areas that are
somewhat in question. The blue is landscaped areas. The white is
either parking areas or building areas. The pink are the areas in some
question, which is not included in the verbiage of the Specific Plan for
coverage. If you eliminate the access to White Oak, there's another
20% that is now blue instead of pink. It's a call the Commission must
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
make as to whether or not this plan is consistent with the Upper
Peter's Canyon Specific Plan.
In response to the letter received from the Irvine Company, discussions
with the applicant and the Irvine Company were such that the applicant
would very much like to have a signal put in immediately at their
expense. Staff's discussions with them indicate that staff's concerns
was that there would be a 15% reduction in capacity on the traffic
volumes that are available on Chapman. Because of that, staff, in
general terms, went to the Irvine Company, and said if this segment
offers a 15% reduction, then that means the demand must be reduced in
an equal form to compensate for that 15% reduction if the City agrees
to put in the signal. Therefore, the letter states that if they put in a
signal now, the demand is not going to be there from the generated
activity of the East Orange Plan; that is not yet developed nor will
develop for at least five years. They're suggesting at the time the plan
comes in for development, then at that time a traffic study will be
done to see how this segment reduces the available build out in the
East Orange area.
The other finding staff is asking the Commission to make is a
recommendation to the City Council on whether or not a curb cut or
access to Chapman and Jamboree should be allowed or afforded this
development. Access rights have been dedicated on both Chapman and
Jamboree and in order for them to get a driveway on Chapman or
Jamboree, a separate action will have to go to the City Council to ask
permission to have a driveway. In that recommendation, staff is also
asking the Commission to recommend on whether or not a signal is
appropriate at Chapman.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Murphy to
recommend to the City Council to approve the site plan and Conditional
Use Permit 1973-92 subject to the following conditions, modifications
and recommendations:
Conditions 1-1 1 as indicated in the revised staff report and
providing additional conditions, one of which to adjust the eastern
terminus of the pedestrian sidewalk accessing from Jamboree Road to
Pad E so that it is adjacent to the driveway to encourage pedestrian use
of the walkway in lieu of the driveway; and that appropriate signage be
included to orient pedestrians to the availability of the walk.
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
At six months and 12 months after occupancy of the two major
anchor stores, supplementary acoustical reports shall be prepared
based upon field review of actual conditions in the delivery area with
delivery trucks to identify the mitigation measures constructed in
accordance with the original acoustical report do in fact work.
That the proposed driveway off White Oak Ridge be eliminated.
That safe access crossings be provided in the parking lots crossing
to the buildings.
That a pedestrian walk and/or stair be provided at the west corner
of the site from White Oak Ridge across from Box Canyon to the site to
afford similar pedestrian access for the residents that was provided at
the originally proposed White Oak entrance.
Pad area "G" not be included in this approval until such time as a
revised site plan for Pad "G" is submitted to the Planning Commission
for validation and to the Traffic Division for validation of required
turning radius for delivery trucks and for vehicles exiting the drive up
window of the restaurant with adequate sight lines and vehicular
movements to avoid crossing into opposing traffic.
No construction access shall be allowed off White Oak Ridge to the
site.
Operating hours of drive-up windows or drive-thru establishments
be limited to 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.
The proposed site coverage is in substantial conformance with the
intent of the Upper Peter's Canyon Specific Plan in that the slightly
increased site coverage is mitigated by elimination of the White Oak
access in lieu of landscaping; and that the articulation of the building
footprints and architectural design further mitigates the footprint of
the buildings on the site.
Relative to the applicant's request to signalize the main drive
access from Chapman Avenue at this time and mitigate the impacts of
traffic capacity reduction on Chapman Avenue based upon inclusion of
the signal in future traffic analysis for the first phase of development
in East Orange, that prior to approval of said request, the Traffic
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
Division and the developer's traffic engineer meet and analyze to the
full extent possible at this time based on current traffic engineering
knowledge and the approved General Plan for the East Orange
development, what extent of development decrease and areas of
decrease would be required to mitigate if in fact 15% or 20% reduction
capacity occurred. (There may be some technical aspects of control for
monitoring the traffic flows and signalization that might alleviate the
Commission's concern. That signalization on Chapman be synchronized
and then set off by stacking internally into the shopping center -- it
might be a way of mitigating that now.) Adequate information has not
been given at this time to have any level of confidence.
The development be provided access rights at one location to
Chapman Avenue and two locations to Jamboree Road as provided in the
development proposal.
AYES: Commissioners Alvarez, Bosch, Cathcart, Murphy, Smith
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS
Mr. Godlewski said there was a provision in the CTR zone that gives the
Planning Commission the authority to make a determination on
commercial uses which in the opinion of the Planning Commission are
similar in character and not more detrimental than any use enumerated
in the commercial section of the CTR. There is an applicant that is
requesting to put in a pawn shop. His letter suggests the pawn shop
will be limited to items of jewelry, clothing and objects of art only.
He does not intend to get into T.V.'s, electronics, guns or things you
would typically see in a pawn shop, nor is he proposing to advertise it
as a pawn shop. However, if the Commission finds this to be consistent
with other uses that are typically found in the CTR zone, then the
Commission can make that determination and allow the applicant to
apply for a conditional use permit. Pawn shops are permitted by C.U.P.
in both the C-2 and C-3 zones.
Commissioner Alvarez asked if there were other types of uses already
on Tustin that fits that description?
Mr. Godlewski was not aware of any pawn shop activities.
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Murphy, that
the Commission finds that the proposed use is not similar to other uses
allowed by C.U.P. in the CTR zone. It is not compatible with other uses
that are being encouraged on Tustin Avenue.
AYES: Commissioners Alvarez, Bosch, Cathcart, Murphy, Smith
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARING
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1975-92 - KHAJENDURI-McLAUGHLIN
A request to allow live entertainment in an existing restaurant.
Subject property is located at 1722 North Tustin Street.
NOTE: This project is categorically exempt from the provisions of
the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) per CEQA
Guidelines Section 15301.
The public hearing was opened.
Aaalicant
Lily McLaughlin, 1722 North Tustin, would like to separate two issues
ABC from the conditional use permit. The only way she can get her
ABC license is if she complies with the regulations. She would like to
get her entertainment license first. She refers to live entertainment
as musicians, music and belly dancing once in awhile.
Those speaking in opposition
Bill Chavez, 1602 East Briardale Avenue, lives immediately behind this
place of business. He related some of his personal experiences thus
far. In six years he has experienced clean up crews operating between
the hours of 2 and 3 o'clock a.m., parking automobiles in the alley,
playing their radios, slamming doors; there was some construction
going on at this business during the night time hours. In regards to the
music and belly dancing, it could be heard from inside the
establishment. Because of the noise, they have to keep their windows
closed and keep their air conditioning on. He didn't understand how the
permit process worked because he has heard this activity since
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
January. They've had to deal with noise, boisterous talk, fights,
speeding vehicles and destruction of property. Trash pick up and
disposal of food is a major problem. He did admit it has been quiet in
recent months.
Chairman Cathcart said the previous owner ignored the correct way of
doing things. The new owner is attempting to do it as it should be.
Gene Somers, 1539 East Candlewood Drive, had a problem with Heart
Throbs. It took almost two years to get of them. He didn't want to see
that occur again. He's concerned there may be unnecessary confusion.
Rebuttal
Ms. McLaughlin bought this restaurant six months ago and she wished
she never bought it. She asked for a chance to operate it as a family
restaurant. She keeps her trash inside the building. She's closed
Mondays and Tuesdays.
Linda DeFiori, owner and one of the partners of the shopping center,
explained Lily bought the lease in January. She has nothing to do with
what happened a long time ago. Mr. Somers did have trouble when there
was a bar at this location. She asked the Commission to at least give
Lily McLaughlin a chance. Heart Throbs has nothing to do with this
applicant; she's trying hard to make a nice business.
Commissioner Alvarez said the neighbors' concern is noise.
Chairman Cathcart said it was the Commission's charge to either
control or alleviate some of the concerns that are being addressed by
the neighbors.
Ms. McLaughlin installed sound proof doors. She can't stop people from
washing their cars in the alley.
The Commission discussed the project and found the operating hours to
be a bit confusing. Current operating hours are noon to 10:00 p. m.
Monday through Thursday; noon to 1:30 a.m. Friday and Saturday; and
6:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. on Sunday. Live entertainment is proposed for
only three days. There will be patron dancing as well. They asked why
1:30 a. m. was essential for a closing time vs. 1 1 o'clock or 12
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Planning Commission Minutes July 6, 1992
midnight? How late is food served in the restaurant? She served food
until 12 - 1 o'clock -- the same time as the entertainment. What is the
occupancy of the restaurant? Occupancy is between 75 to 100 people.
They can have up to 299 people according to the staff report. She only
has one entertainer so far. She proposes belly dancing on Fridays and
Saturdays.
Commissioner Alvarez asked if she had a chance to review the staff
report? (Yes she had. There is no need for a security guard.)
Commissioner Bosch asked her if she agreed with the conditions of
approval i.e., hours of operation?
Ms. McLaughlin really needed her restaurant to remain open until 1:30
a.m.; she thought it was very unfair of the condition to restrict the
hours of operation.
Mr. Godlewski explained the hours of operation, which is consistent
with what they've done with other applications of a similar type. The
conditions are listed as a suggestion.
The public hearing was closed.
The Commission has the opportunity of putting in a condition to
periodically review for police service calls. Or, it could be conditioned
fora periodic review by the Commission. The key problem is this
establishment is within 20 feet of a single family residential zone.
Very stringent review times and conditions are needed to consider this
request. There needs to be some method of accountability for yanking
the permit immediately if something goes wrong. The original review
period should be no more than 90 days after said operation starts.
Moved by Commissioner Murphy, seconded by Commissioner Alvarez, to
approve Conditional Use Permit 1975-92 with conditions 1-6 as noted,
with the additional condition that there will be a review cycle of 90
days from the granting of this permit to review that the conditions and
operation are as specified in the permit. Said review will be noticed
and held as a public hearing before the Commission.
AYES: Commissioners Alvarez, Cathcart, Murphy, Smith
NOES: Commissioner Bosch MOTION CARRIED
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Planning Commission Minutes
IN RE: PUBLIC INPUT
July 6, 1992
Bob Bennyhoff, 10642 Morada Drive, Orange Park Acres, commended the
Commission for putting the brakes on that last minute request for a
traffic signal. Jamboree is increasing almost daily and there's one big
mess building out there.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Murphy, seconded by Commissioner Smith, to
adjourn to a public work shop for the study of Section A on July 8, 1992
at 7:00 p.m. in the Weimer Room. It is also noted there is an additional
study session on Planning Commission procedures and CEQA, as well as
a joint meeting for a trail study at 4:30 and 5:30 respectively on July
29, 1992 in the Weimer Room.
AYES: Commissioners Alvarez, Bosch, Cathcart, Murphy, Smith
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
The meeting adjourned at 11:35 p.m.
sld
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