HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-07-1993 PC MinutesMINUTES
Planning Commission June 7, 1993
City of Orange Monday - 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Bosch, Cathcart, Smith, Walters
ABSENT: None
STAFF
PRESENT: John Godlewski, Administrator of Current Planning;
Bob Herrick, Assistant City Attorney;
Gary Johnson, City Engineer; and
Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: MINUTES OF MAY 17. 1993
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Walters, to approve the
Minutes of May 17, 1993, as recorded.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Smith, Walters
NOES: None
ABSTAINED: Commissioner Cathcart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: ITEM TO BE CONTINUED
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 2015-93 - EL ARCA COMUNIDAD CRISTIANA (THE
ARK CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP)
A request to establish a church with administrative offices and conference/counseling
capability in an existing lease space in an industrial multi-tenant development. Subject
property is located on the southwest corner of Batavia Street and Struck Avenue,
addressed 1040 North Batavia, Suite E.
NOTE: This item is categorically exempt from the provisions of the California
Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) per CEQA Guidelines Section 15301.
The applicant requested a continuance to the June 21, 1993 Planning Commission
meeting.
Moved by Commissioner Cathcart, seconded by Commissioner Walters, to accept the
applicant's request to continue Conditional Use Permit 2015-93 to June 21, 1993.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Cathcart, Smith, Walters
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
1
Planning Commission Minutes
IN RE: NEW HEARING
June 7, 1993
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 2014-93 -EVAN BELL (IRV BEAVER MOTORCYCLES)
A request to expand an existing motorcycle sales and service dealership located in an
industrial district. Subject property is located at 607 West Katella Avenue.
NOTE: This item is categorically exempt from the provisions of the California
Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) per CEQA Guidelines Section 15301.
The issues before the Commission include the ability to expand the motorcycle sales
and service dealership, thus reducing the parking stall size and vehicular backing
distance (1.2 feet).
The public hearing was opened.
Applicant
John Hamilton, 450 East Chapman Avenue, is the architect for the project. Ninety'-nine
percent of the vehicles that will be parked in the proposed area will be motorcycles.
Their length is approximately 6-7 feet. He has never seen a car in the back space of the
building. They propose to put in a metal building and it will be plan check approved. It
is primarily for the warehousing and storage of motorcycles.
Evan Bell, 607 West Katella Avenue, said the building will also be used for parking the
motorcycles that need service.
The public hearing was closed.
Moved by Commissioner Cathcart, seconded by Commissioner Smith, to approve
Conditional Use Permit 2014-93 with condition 1, noting the project is categorically
exempt from the provisions of CEQA.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Cathcart, Smith, Walters
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARING
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 2016-93 -RICHARD JOHNSON
A request to allow a billiard facility with an associated restaurant and on-sale beer and
wine sales upon property located in the M-2 (Industrial) zone. Subject property is
located at 1096 North Main Street.
NOTE: This item is categorically exempt from the provisions of the California
Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) per CEQA Guidelines Section 15301.
The staff report was presented by Chris Carnes of the Planning staff. The applicant is
proposing to open a combination billiard and restaurant establishment in a vacant
industrial building. The building was originally developed for industrial purposes and
was converted to a gym a few years ago. The proposed facility will have 29 billiard
tables, approximately 2,500 square feet of restaurant use, and shall include the sale of
2
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
alcoholic beverages. The C.U.P. application is to allow a billiard or commercial
recreational use in the M-2 zone and to allow on-site sale of beer and wine. The
applicant has designed the project to avoid impacting neighboring properties. The main
entrance (only entrance) to the facility shall be the east side of the building, which is
away from the recreational vehicle facility located west of the site. The existing doors
on the west side of the building shall be permanently closed. The facility is proposed to
be restricted to persons 21 years and older.
Commissioner Smith noted it was mentioned in the staff report (Page 2) the project was
limited to persons 21 years of age and older, but conditions 8 and 9 specifically refer to
disallowing any persons under age 18. The conditions need to be amended or deleted.
Mr. Carnes responded those conditions came from the Police Department, and were
sent over to Planning staff prior to staff finding out the project was restricted to people
21 years and older. The conditions can be deleted.
Commissioner Bosch preferred to change the minimum age to 21 rather than
eliminating the conditions because even if the applicant's proposal is to limit the age to
21 and older, there's nothing embodied in the approval to keep that intact (if the
conditions were eliminated).
The public hearing was opened.
Applicant
Danny Kykendal, 1418 Evergreen, Fullerton, plans on having a very nice billiard facility
with pool tournaments -- a very upstanding operation. The recreational vehicle park is
approximately 300 feet away from the entrance to the building. Most of the parking will
be on Main Street; very little parking will be back on the side. Employees will be parking
in the back. He's been in billiards for 20 years; his partner has been in the business 25
years. They don't want kids under 21 or rowdy behavior in their facility.
Commissioner Walters noted there appeared to be a difference in the bathroom facilities
between the mens and ladies rooms. He assumed the large stall in the mens room was
for handicap accessibility.
Mr. Kykendal said both bathrooms will be handicapped and are equal in size.
Commissioner Smith said the City approved a billiard proposal a couple of weeks ago
where they implemented a six month monitoring review of the facility. This is not
present in this proposal and she suggested adding a similar condition. She asked the
applicant if he were willing to accept that as a condition? (Yes.) She also wanted to
know the process to determine entrance into the facility to assure that no one under 21
is there playing pool?
Mr. Kykendal said there would always be someone at the door checking I.D.
Commissioner Smith proposed a condition to check I.D. (The applicant concurred.)
Commissioner Bosch said there were a variety of exit only doors. He would require a
condition to alarming those from the inside. His concern was the doors could stand
open and cause a problem out on Struck. (The applicant concurred.)
3
Planning Commission Minutes
Those speaking in favor
June 7, 1993
Richard Johnson, 1630 Antigo Way, Newport Beach, is Danny's partner. He opened his
first billiard business in 1969. All of his businesses were clean quality, trouble free
operations and Danny K's will be operated in the same manner.
Those speaking in opposition
E. H. Welton, 489 Greengrove, is the owner of Orangeland Recreation Vehicle Park
next door to the project in question. He was not necessarily opposed, but very
concerned about the proposed use. The people in his park are older, quiet and go to
bed early. He is of the age where billiard parlors have a bad name to them as they are
noisy and on the rowdy side. He was concerned about noise, trash and the late hours
that might be associated with the project.
Commissioner Cathcart assured Mr. Welton the City did not want this to be a detriment
or to impact him in a harmful way. The Commission shared his concerns.
Commissioner Smith encouraged Mr. Welton and others to contact the Police
Department or City officials to file concerns or problems about the use if it should get out
of hand. She asked if he had given any consideration to the fact that the facility might
enhance his business? (Yes, but he still feels better if it were not there.)
Rebuttal
Mr. Kykendal understood the objections because they don't want to have a problem
either with their own customers. On busy nights, there will be someone in the parking
lot monitoring it. He hopes they can work out the concerns.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Smith wanted to include as a condition that the site be reviewed during
the first six months of operation -- nothing more lenient or more strict than what was
imposed at the other billiard facility.
Commissioner Bosch suggested replacing condition 8 with the condition relative to the
six month review; then look at condition 9 for modification relative to the 21 age limit,
prohibiting admission of anyone under the age of 21 at any time.
Commissioner Smith would also like to see a new condition 16 that would require a
specific process to check age identification of people who enter the building at the
entrance.
Commissioner Bosch proposed adding a new condition 17 requiring that all exit doors,
other than the main entrance, shall be alarmed at the inside so as to discourage
unauthorized use during business hours.
4
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Walters, to approve
Conditional Use Permit 2016-93 with the conditions listed in the staff report and as
amended/added by previous discussion, noting that the project was categorically
exempt from environmental review under CEQA.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Cathcart, Smith, Walters
MOTION CARRIEDNOES: None
IN RE: NEW HEARING
MODIFICATION TO CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1932-91 AND MODIFICATION TO
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 14593 -PACIFIC RIDGE PARTNERS
A request to modify the site plan approved in conjunction with Conditional Use Permit
1932-91 and to revise the conditions of approval for both Tentative Tract Map 14593
and Conditional Use Permit 1932-91. The current proposal is to redesign the westerly
21.6 acres of a 36 acre site as a Planned Unit Development, to provide single family
detached housing on individual lots a minimum of 3,600 square feet in size, and a
common recreation facility. This proposal retains the condominium and apartment
development originally approved on the easterly portion of the site plan. Subject
property is a portion of the Southridge Planned Community, located east of Meats
Avenue, north of Cerro Villa Drive, south of the City of Anaheim, and west of the
proposed connection of Loma Street/Imperial Highway. The area of the development
subject to this request is on the south side of the planned extension of Via Escola,
easterly of its current terminus.
NOTE: The environmental impacts of this project have been evaluated under
previously certified Environmental Impact Report #854.
Commissioner Cathcart excused himself from the meeting due to a possible potential
conflict of interest.
Joan Wolff of the Planning staff presented the staff report as there was opposition to this
project. The project is an application for a planned unit development. The applicant has
submitted a concept plan for a P.U.D. The intent is to replace a previously approved
condominium development with detached single family housing in an area that has been
designated for low medium density residential development. This category allows
density at a rate of 6-15 units per acre. The approved project is shown on the map
behind the Commissioners. It is a tract map containing four lots and 239 condominium
units -- a combination of townhomes and stacked flats. The proposed project consists
of 149 single family detached units, each on their own individual lots, a minimum of
3,600 square feet in size on the easterly portion, and 4,250 square feet in size on the
westerly portion. The homes are relatively small m size compared to new single family
homes that are being built these days. Houses range in size from 1,375 square feet to
1,945 square feet. The easterly portion of the development will have attached two car
garages, while the westerly portion will have attached three car garages. There is a
common recreation facility located at the primary entry drive that will be shared by all of
the units. She believed there was a typographical error in the staff report where it was
stated the common area was 1,400 square feet in size; it's approximately 14,000 square
feet. (The applicant has the exact square footage of the recreation facility.) Staff's main
concern with this project is the fact that the overall Southridge Development has a
development cap of 1,000 units; the plan has been modified over time such that only
5
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
597 units are planned for 181 of the total 196 developable acres. This means that 403
units could potentially be built over the remaining 15 acres at a density of approximately
27 units per acre. This is not proposed; what is proposed is that the final two lots would
remain as shown on the approved site plan. But there is a possibility that it could come
back to the Planning Commission/City Council for review of a revised site plan.
Because the project is proposed as a planned unit development, additional findings will
need to be made by the Planning Commission. Such findings must indicate that the
project creates a living environment equal to or better than what might be accomplished
under traditional development practices.
Staff recommends to revise conditions 5 and 56 and these conditions are a result of
comments and discussions between staff and the applicant earlier in the day. To
summarize them, it establishes setback standards for lots 1 and 2 of Tract 14593. And
changing from condition 5, the rear yard setback for the primary building such that there
would be a 15 foot minimum rear yard setback for two story construction, which would
include second story decks; however, a 10 foot minimum setback would be allowed for
single story room additions and covered patios. Additionally, there would be some
standards added for detached accessory structures, creating a minimum separation
from the main building and detached structure of 6 feet. Minimum front yard and
exterior side yards -- the same as for the main buildings, but it allows detached
accessory buildings to abut the rear and side property lines, provided they are in
accordance with the Urnform Building Code. Another condition that is recommended for
modification is condition 56, which has to do with the construction of water service
facilities. This modifies the condition so that rather than as currently worded, it requires
construction of a pump station prior to building permits being issued on the second 500
units encompassed within the boundaries of Tentative Tract Map 12082. This is being
revised to be m accordance with the original agreement that was adopted several years
ago.
The public hearing was opened.
Applicant
Scott Stowell, 1565 West MacArthur Blvd., Costa Mesa, represented the managing
partner of Pacific Ridge Partners. He explained the partnership structure between
Southridge Development and Standard Pacific, who is the managing partner. They are
proposing a revision to the conditional use permit for Southridge. Their partnership
includes Lots 1, 2 and 3 of Tract 14593. Lot 4 (apartment site) is outside of the
partnership. Southridge has retained that and will be building the apartments
themselves. When the partnership was formed, they took an assessment of the
approval and the market place. They have determined and convinced their partner that
a townhome project isn't the right product today. The first order of business is to ask for
a revision to a planned unit development. The market has changed. Townhomes can't
compete with lower footage, lowered priced single family housing. The recession has
driven many builders to start downsizing the sizes of their homes and bringing prices in
line with incomes and affordability. It is clear to them most of the buyers, particularly
families, would prefer to live in a single family home rather than a condominium or
townhome. They're positive about the project; there are no constraints, financing is in
place and they are prepared to move forward. A grading plan has been submitted to the
City and they can begin at the end of the month provided they get the approvals in
place. This proj000 sill The ~dfeel hey are bring ng s ngle fam8y ~o~sing into the prpce ed
m the low $200, Y
6
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
ranges where the consumer can afford to buy a home. The intent of the planned unit
development is to provide a better plan. A huge recreation area (16,300 square feet)
will be shared by 149 homes. They have provided a good circulation system,
landscaped islands at the knuckles to provide a sense of community, they have taken
15 feet along the entire edge of Via Escola and have increased the frontage of the
landscaped pallet in that area. In terms of livability, the front and rear yards are large
enough to be compatible with the lots. They understand the City has had much
discussion with regard to small lot development. Their proposal is a small lot planned
unit development, but it's a consideration as an alternative to condominium ownership.
This project is a downzone to an approved condominium plan. They have convinced
their partner not to go forward with an assessment district to put Via Escola and Loma
in. They prefer not to form the district and to make that a project cost, thereby not
burdening future homeowners or the City. They are proposing landscaped maintenance
districts for all of the maintenance along Via Escola to have consistent maintenance of
that area. The project is next to a park, which they will improve. Children will not have
to cross major streets to get to the park. He brought up some issues regarding the
conditions of approval. He was concerned about patio covers having a 10 foot rear yard
setback. (condition 5.) On some of the lots, homeowners will be limited to constructing
a patio cover that is only 5 feet (it won't work). The depth of the patio cover is being
limited. In the County those type of structures can go a little bit closer to those property
lines. He requested the Commission to consider a 5 foot minimum setback for patio
covers. He agreed that room additions should be limited to 10 feet, but patio covers
should be allowed to encroach further. Condition 30 needs to include a landscape
maintenance district, in addition to the homeowners' association. On condition 45, Mr.
Tracy, their partner, asked Mr. Stowell to read for the record a response to that
condition. "He is accepting condition 45 for now, but that he may be back and asking
for relief from that condition depending upon the outcome of certain agreements that
he's trying to enter into with Woodcrest Development, and because of the fact that the
construction of Serrano is not yet commenced."
Commissioner Bosch understood the condition carries over from previous approval on
this parcel. It's fine that the City has his statement for the record, but it doesn't impact
the proposed condition.
Mr. Johnson stated the City also has an agreement where the specific amount is locked
in and it would appear that with possibly the default of the Woodcrest property, Mr.
Tracy believes that agreement is in default. Maybe it is, but he didn't know.
Mr. Stowell thought part of the concern was that they were funding a road improvement
that may not occur for many years and perhaps that money is better used for Loma or
Via Escola, which is infrastructure that their partnership will be putting in place.
Commissioner Smith was shown a plan that showed the back yard setbacks to be
anywhere from 20 to 25 feet. What is the reason for now asking fora 15 foot back yard
setback, which is the reduction of 10 feet on some properties?
Mr. Stowell replied in most cases that is true. There may be at the ends of the cul de
sacs where the lot depth may not be 85 feet. Because the unit is set back further and is
at the end of the cul de sac on a pie shaped lot, to meet the five yard setbacks it gets
pushed further into the lot. There may be one or two lots where it becomes an issue.
7
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
Commissioner Smith asked if he were asking for the setbacks only on the pie shaped
lots? (Sure, they would be willing to consider that.)
Commissioner Bosch's perception, based on market realities, is that of a self imposed
problem. It would be a nightmare to police in this manner, but maybe it could be done
relative to a zoning administrator action. His concern carries on further about the mass
and bulk of housing and square footage of lot coverage. Then there is the ability within
the planned community to add on and take away a chunk of that open space that is so
essential to the livability and marketability of the units.
Mr. Stowell said from their perspective they are market driven and it's their experience
that the less they constrain a homeowner, the more marketable the home and lot is. He
shared his own personal experience of living at the end of a cul de sac. Many
homeowners like large patio living types of conditions.
Commissioner Bosch would differentiate between the patio cover and the potential
building addition. A patio cover retains the outdoor space, has less physical impact
typically on a neighbor in close proximity vs. a one or two story building addition in that
same space.
Mr. Stowell agreed room additions should be limited to 10 feet.
Commissioner Bosch spoke to the issue of Via Escola. It's a concern to the City. He
understands there is a portion of the future right-of-way of Via Escola and the future
intersection with Loma (that's under someone else's control).
Mr. Stowell said the right-of-way of Via Escola is part of their partnership. It's only Lot 4
that would be excluded. The right-of-way to Loma and then from Loma to existing
Imperial is part of their partnership. Their agreements require they put that
infrastructure in at the time they pull the 500th permit. They will get that road in earlier if
they think the market is asking for it.
Commissioner Bosch's concern is relative to safety and accessibility. There's only one
way out. He looked for the applicant's assistance in finding a way to make that a more
positive relationship to the length and potential hazards than to specific housing units.
Commissioner Bosch continued, relative to the previously approved overall density and
number of units for the entire planned community and now with the reduction in units
proposed at this location because of current market demand, raises the potential if
there's no other closure then the partnership might come in and Standard Pacific, in it's
separate apartment development, request modification of the plans on Lots 3 and 4 to
relatively significantly increase a density to get up to the maximum units overall. His
concern is that typically in looking at a planned community development one looks at
the integral development -- that's the whole purpose of it -- relative to balance of
housing types, stocks, densities, locations and the relationship to infrastructure and the
public accommodation such as parks, greenbelts and the like. Yet the constant shifting
due to market forces raises a specter that one ends up with an animal entirely different
at the end. That says that something earlier should not have been allowed. He
appreciates the desire to maintain flexibility, but hopes the applicant sees his point in
terms of the potential radical change to the living environment in the remaining parcels.
He understands the desire not to link a change in type and density at this point to the
remainder of the process, but he can't see how one can separate the two.
8
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
Mr. Stowell understands his concern. Lot 3 is part of the partnership and is currently
planned for an 18 to the acre condominium. They are not proposing any change to that;
they will build that. That would leave Lot 4 as the lot for the potential change. He didn't
know what current opportunity staff has to re-visit Lot 4 in the future, but he does know
the partner and knows what the plans are. However, he can't speak for him regarding
Lot 4. He does know the partner is working on a corner of that Edison easement area.
The Edison company is realigning their power lines. Southridge is trying to get the
County to trade that open space for some other open space they own. If he were able
to get that 3 acres of land and add it to Lot 4, he thought the partner would take the
available density and put it in there, but not force the density of 27 units per acre on Lot
4. Perhaps a density cap could be considered. Mr. Stowell said Lot 4 is part of the
conditional use permit -the revision they are proposing. Although it is outside of the
partnership, it is part in parcel with the applrcation.
Ms. Wolff stated the application was to modify the conditional use permit. Specifically,
the two lots, but once is has been opened, she believed the Commission could address
anything within the bounds of that conditional use permit. Lot 4 has been planned and
approved at 22.3 units per acre.
Mr. Stowell said they were not proposing to make any changes to 3 or 4. Southridge
always has the right to come back with a future revision. He appreciates the
Commission's concern, but did not know how to resolve it completely. He could make
commitments for Lots 1, 2 and 3.
Commissioner Walters' concern was how he could be assured of not creating a
precedent for lower lot size in the minds of the Irvine Company in East Orange. That's
the only danger he sees. He doesn't have a problem with the project. He wanted to be
careful in whatever wording was used to carry a stipulation that this was not to be
treated as allowing R-1's to be created in size less than 6,000 square feet.
Mr. Stowell understood the concern about precedent setting relative to General Plan
land. He stated their proposal is a revision to an already approved condominium
project, which is a planned unit development consistent with the zoning in every regard.
It meets the intent of a planned unit development. It's important to understand it rs a
revision to a condominium; it is not a request or proposal for R-1 residential small lot
subdivision. This will be a private community with private streets and a homeowners'
association.
Those speaking in opposition
Bob Bennyhoff, 10642 Morada Drive, Orange Park Acres, was not as excited abut this
project as the applicant. He believed it was a dangerous proposal and it should be
denied. He warned the Commission when they approved the Inner American single
family detached project they were opening Pandora's Box. Mr. Stowell lifted the lid.
The City now has 3,600 square foot lots. The basic building block of the City of Orange
is being changed when this project is approved. It took five years fighting with the Irvine
Company over density. They've already told the City they want more density. When
they see this map, they will smile like atiger -- this is what they've been waiting for. He
has never liked planned unit developments and he thinks the City has made a mistake
by allowing P.U.D.'s. This is a dense proposal and it is worse than what the Irvine
Company built in Santiago Hills. Is this what the City of Orange wants because of a
market driven trend? Smaller lots are basically non-conforming. The Irvine Company
9
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
will be back with their request for medium density development. How long will it take to
finish the connection road? He believes the City will end up with a road going to
nowhere. He doesn't think Orange wants to become a city of small lots and that is
precisely what is happening with this project. He prefers the original approval because
the condominiums do not pose a danger to the future development of the East Orange
area or any other development.
Rebuttal
Mr. Stowell failed to see the danger of their proposal. He didn't understand what Mr.
Bennyhoff was talking about. There is a big difference about small lots and those that
are acceptable in the City and what the City wants and doesn't want. This plan is a
good plan; it stands on its own merits. It meets the demands of the market place, which
is really important. The City needs to provide housing for the residents of the City and
they've got to provide affordable housing. That's a problem in the industry. They work
hard with densities to try to deal with the realities of the land economics which builders
are facing. He appreciates someone who lives in Orange Park Acres and he loves the
large acre lot he lives in, but that's not for all of us. He can't afford, as a builder-
developer to live in Mr. Bennyhoff's home. He has to live in a 4,000 square foot home.
That's a real important issue that we can't lose sight of. Affordable housing is needed in
Orange. He felt it was an elitist position to take regarding the large lots because most
people cannot afford a 6,000 square foot lot.
Commissioner Walters asked what was happening with Lots C and D? Were they going
to be owned by the City or be owned by the homeowners' association? What is the
legal status of those lots?
Mr. Stowell responded Lots C and D, as well as Lots E and G will be owned by those
associations in fee. Edison will continue to have an easement over that portion of the
land.
Commissioner Smith recalled Section A is designated as open space. She asked if it
were a park site? (Yes.) What is the proportion in the development of 3,650 and 4,250
square foot lots?
Mr. Stowell said Lot 1 was the large one. There are 65 lots there. Previously there
were 97 condominiums approved. On Lot 2 there were 142, 15 to the acre
condominiums approved and they have 84 of the smaller lots. The minimum lot size is
45 x 80. He did not have the numbers worked out as to how many were under 4,000
square feet and how many were over 4,000. The largest lot would be a 6,000 square
foot lot, but the majority of them would be plus or minus 100-200 feet.
Ms. Wolff did not have the information Commissioner Smith was asking for. Staff has
been given a typical dimension for each of the two lot sizes. In looking at it, it seems
like more of the lots are larger than the minimum, but it has never been calculated out
as to what the individual lot sizes are.
Commissioner Smith was trying to get a sense of what the Commission was approving
a project that was predominantly substandard sized lots or was it traditionally sized
lots with a few sprinkled in?
10
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
Mr. Stowell didn't think there were any substandard lots; it depends on what the
definition was for a substandard lot. They are proposing lots that were smaller than the
traditional R-1 6,000 square foot size. They are providing minimums of 20 foot rear
yards up to 25 foot rear yards, private space for the family -- that's greater than what
they would get under the current proposal. It is a plan that is consistent with the zoning.
They are not asking for any variances.
Commissioner Bosch has some basic concerns that have not gone away. He shared
the concern about not having more indepth information relative to the average or mean
lot size because that has assisted them in the past to identify the impacts on the typical
dwelling units. Yes, it would be true that what is proposed is not substandard in view of
the planned community zoning currently in effect for the site. But, the Commission
looks at the City as a whole as well as each district of the City in that regard. It would
be helpful to have that information to look at the living environment. He had a deep
concern over building additions and its impacts upon the current zoning standards for
the planned community. And, it would relate primarily to the minimum lot size as well as
the exotic lot on the cul de sac. The Commission was being asked whether these
minimal areas are adequate to support the market place size of home the applicant
suggests placing on them, yet allowing freedom for a homeowner to come in and add on
substantially to a point not defined by the house plans. That can have a radically
different impact on outdoor space available, impact to the neighbors and the number of
people who might be dwelling in the houses. All of these issues relate to lot size. The
applicant is setting up the conditions of the problems by the type of housing stock being
asked to be placed on the lots and he thought in return for that freedom, there would
have to be some types of restrictions to assure the minimal living environment proposed
isn't destroyed. He had an overall concern about the density and the layout per lot in
the planned community. He's concerned that yes the lots are being reduced (number of
dwelling units) in a market that will never sell the product, and yet forcing some future
which could be damaging to the overall community and the on-going property values for
the purchasers by forcing that density downstream. He would like the applicant to
address the street situation of Via Escola and Loma.
Mr. Stowell was not prepared to address lot sizes. Regarding the building addition to
lots -- staff has proposed a condition that requires a 10 foot minimum for room additions
and he requested consideration to allow open patio covers to encroach further into the
set backs. The condition as it exists is OK except for his request to allow patio covers to
encroach a little further. Coverage ratios can be discussed and included in the CC&R's.
Commissioner Walters personally was not too concerned as to the precise lot size. The
basic issue is the 6,000 square foot lots. He didn't have a problem with seeing a
conversion from condominiums to this type of single family dwellings. He thought there
might be a way to put in a limit as to the density permitted on Lots 3 and 4. Is there
some legal way by which the homeowners of a 4,000 square foot lot in this project could
be rated for additional square footage to the property owners' holdings equating 6,000
square foot lots?
Mr. Herrick explained traditionally the method of ownership of common areas for both
condominiums and projects that have common landscaped areas is the deed indicating
the lot or air space and then an undivided percentage interest in the common areas.
Whether or not the Commission wishes to consider the lot space would be a policy
question.
11
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
Commissioner Walters asked if the homeowners' association could take care of the
open space property, but the individual space in the lot be more segregated and owned
by the individual homeowners?
Mr. Herrick responded it would be somewhat more cumbersome administratively. That
would be an unusual approach on how it would be structured. You would end up with a
checkered board effect in the open space area on the recorder's maps and the CC&R's
would be a little more complex.
Commissioner Walters was suggesting some creative imagination to create the effect of
having a 6,000 square foot lot owned by each homeowner. Failing to do that, the City
will have a problem with other developers.
Commissioner Bosch would like a response to the actual status and phasing of Via
Escola and Loma Streets.
Mr. Stowell said they were currently conditioned that they could not pull the 501st
building permit without the connection being put into place. Belmont represents roughly
300 units. They could only pull 200 building permits before the road must be completely
connected. Edison is proceeding with the Loma construction all the way up to their
property line. Plans have been approved and they have budgeted for the construction
of that link and it is proceeding. It will be in place for them to connect to it.
Mr. Bennyhoff took offense to the applicant's rebuttal and he was offended. It was the
first time in 15 years of being called an elitist for living in Orange Park Acres. He has
never proposed 1 acre or 1/2 acre homes, but has fought hard to get 5,000 and 6,000
square foot lots.
Mr. Stowell apologized to Mr. Bennyhoff.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Walters didn't see a problem in capping development on Lots 3 and 4.
The points Mr. Bennyhoff brings out are well taken so far as the possible
misinterpretation by the Irvine Company and others in East Orange that the 6,000
square foot lot rule is no longer in existence. Although on the other hand, he concurred
with the developer that this new proposal has more appeal than the condominiums. He
hoped there was a way to find a legal way for the homeowners to participate in a
scheme that allows them to own 6,000 square feet to counter any misunderstanding that
might occur with the other developments. He's not as concerned with the road at this
point. With the economy loosening up he believes the project will be constructed
quickly, sold fairly quickly and what you've got is a widening soon to occur on Santiago
Canyon Road and he understands the widening on Loma itself, including the bridge. He
suspected if there were an ultimate time limit, which could be agreed to voluntarily by
the contractor (5 years), perhaps that would put that fear to rest.
Commissioner Smith's record shows a strong belief in a minimum 6,000 square foot lot
for single family development. This project with a smaller sized lot with a single family
home on it is an improvement to her thinking and it definitely is an improvement over the
planned unit development of condominiums. She would agree with Mr. Bennyhoff's
statements down the line on everything he said except that she prefers a single family
development over condominiums. She finds herself in a dilemma because even though
12
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
she supports the concept of the 6,000 square foot standard lots, her children cannot
afford to buy that size single family home in Orange. If she intends to have her children
live in Orange, then this project presents an affordable single family home, both for
young families and also for retired families. She's extremely concerned about setting a
precedent for future developers. She's intrigued by Commissioner Walters' proposal.
That is an Edison Company easement with the transmission lines. She and her
husband are stock holders in the Edison Company (her husband has been employed
with Edison for the last 25 years); there would probably be a conflict of interest in her
voting on anything regarding that property.
Mr. Herrick responded with respect to stock ownership in major corporations, there are
two rules to look at -- the amount of income derived from dividends (that is subject to the
normal $250 per annum situation); the other is the ownership interest (a sliding scale).
He would need to know the percentage of ownership and number of shares. He
suspected Commissioner Smith was not close to a conflict on the stock ownership
issue.
Commissioner Smith said there was an important piece of information she did not have
regarding the number of lots of specific size. It seems to loom as the big issue at this
point. She had some concerns about reducing the back yard size to a 15 foot set back
because it increases the bulk and mass of the house on an already small lot and it takes
away open space from the family. She would be inclined to look favorably on the patio
covers, but less inclined to accept the room addition, back to a 10 foot set back of the
yard. She needed more information and was not personally prepared to vote on this
project at this hearing.
Commissioner Bosch threw in a few different thoughts. He sees a great difference
between this project and the Inner American proposal and the differences are important
in terms of finding a way to make this work. He didn't think the two were a reasonable
parallel because the Inner American proposal was for the last developable multi-family
residential lot on a larger planned community and it didn't propose to lower the density
substantially, but it changed the housing type. And, although it did in the strict definition
perhaps create lots, it created court yard homes or cluster of homes onto an auto court
that are incapable of being added onto by the structure of the planned community, by
the approved architectural plans and by everything that went with it. It's a final product,
just as a condominium development would be a final product. You can't go out and add
onto that. It also provides a housing type of a size and configuration where one would
not anticipate seeing large extended families who wouldn't be crowding into the unit,
overall, he thought, create a better physical environment for that piece of land. The
proposed project is something else. There is an artificial construct that is applied to this
specific development type. It's part of a planned community, but they're individual lots
with free-standing houses on them. The problem becomes a perception. What would
greatly help is some good brain work in identifying how the City can strictly construct
this type of project legally as not being that precedent. He wouldn't add his voice to the
concept of trying to sub-parcelize adjacent open space whether it be an Edison
easement or a set aside for open space as in fee ownership that is tied to individual lots.
That would be a nightmare in terms of governments over the years and a potential
precedent that could set for misuse elsewhere despite how well it might solve an
appearance of lot size problems. The solution lies in where the applicant doesn't want
to be caught with having to help solve the problem of the potential precedent it sets, but
needs to be. With some minor physical problems, there is a basically decent
development here. This, however, sets the perception of a small lot given the minor
13
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
nature of the shared open space facilities that someone is going to apply elsewhere
without the adjacent open space. It needs to be solved in a way that gives something
that is marketable, meets the current need and doesn't cause someone to come back
later and take advantage of a precedent to destroy other portions of the community.
How do we get there? That's the key thing that is desperately needed regarding this
application to give some assurances, coupled with the necessary tie to the overall
development. There is a maximum set. He needs stipulations and assurances that are
iron clad built into the project to assure that the easterly end of the planned community
is not overburdened with something that would be a negative environment with negative
impacts on the pre-approved developments adjacent to that. He concurred with
Commissioner Smith's thoughts relative to building addition vs. patio covers. You can't
have it both ways -- it's either a planned community, technically a condominium of
detached units on larger than unit footprint lots or it's not -- which one is it? The
standards ought to still stick with those that went with the planned community that went
with the idea of closer, more clustered housing that the developer originally came in
with. He thinks the market understands that and can live with that. He would like to see
some structuring of condition 5 and related ones that limit overbuilding by future
additions to this, or allow for that overbuilding by reducing the size of the product that
goes in initially and set some good standards to make it work. He understands the
street problem. He anticipates these will move quite rapidly and get over the 500th
permit within a relatively short time. How do we resolve the perception problem of small
individual lots?
Mr. Stowell suggested a continuance to try and work through some of the issues. He
thinks there are solutions (i.e., restricting room additions through the CC&R's} to try and
deal with the density issue, and ultimate time frames for Via Escola could be addressed.
He can prepare a list of the lot sizes and give the Commission additional information
they are needing in order for them to make their decision. The applicant would like a
couple of weeks to prepare the additional information.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Walters, to continue the
modification to Conditional Use Permit 1932-91 and modification of Tentative Tract Map
14593 until the regular meeting of Wednesday, July 7, 1993 with the concurrence of the
applicant for the reasons stated.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Smith, Walters
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Cathcart MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Cathcart returned to the meeting.
IN RE: NEW HEARING
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 5-93 -CITY OF ORANGE
A request to amend the Housing Element of the City of Orange General Plan.
NOTE: A previous Environmental Impact Report was certified on August 22, 1989.
This proposed amendment is within the scope of the program approved in
August of 1989 and is adequately described for the purposes of CEQA.
14
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
Jere Murphy, Advanced Planning Manager, reviewed the proposed Housing Element
with the Commission. He recognized the work done by Mary Ann Chamberlain, who did
much of the writing and changes, along with Connie Belands and Karen Warner, who
prepared the section on the housing units at risk (Casa Ramon project). Karen oversaw
the project and did the initial interfacing with the Department of Housing & Community
Development. Mary Ellen Laster from the Redevelopment Agency also participated in
reviewing the Housing Element, particularly from the standpoint of housing programs
that the Agency is responsible for. The new primary areas are the ones of concern
mentioned by the HCD office with regard to increased density, allowable through the
General Plan. Through discussions, staff has included in the proposed Housing
Element to add higher density residential or at least consider proposing adding higher
density for the commercial areas of The City shopping center, Town & Country and to
provide higher density residential as part of The Depot Specific Plan. The staff also
committed to identifying a higher density residential category in the General Plan at a
future point in time, particularly looking for the sites within the community that might
allow for a higher density (24-36 units per acre). Staff sees that as a long-term goal --
not ashort-term goal. Staff is also working an affordable housing plan trying to address
the issue of providing affordable housing, particularly with the new Irvine property to the
East. The Bonus Density Program is also of interest to the HCD staff.
Commissioner Bosch appreciates the fine job that has been done by staff and the
perseverance in dealing with the State on this.
Commissioner Smith asked what the word "moderate" meant on Page 29, Paragraph 2?
Does that refer to specific density?
Mr. Murphy replied no. They are trying to balance economics and historic preservation
and still allow for a certain amount of development in the area, not curtailing
development entirely, but still attempting to preserve the historically significant
structures within the area.
Commissioner Smith assumes the entire document addresses the State's question
about what the City of Orange is doing about affordable housing in the area. Everything
is a proposal and nothing is binding -- it's a General Plan.
Mr. Murphy explained this was a goal setting document and is part of the General Plan.
Commissioner Smith asked why are not other vacant school sites in Orange included?
Mr. Murphy said they tried to stay away from controversial sites. Peralta is a sensitive
school site. A lot of discussion has occurred there and rather to speculate, staff thought
it would be better to talk about sites they knew the school district was attempting to sell
off.
Commissioner Smith had a suggestion for a change of term for site identification. Only
newcomers call the Orange Plaza a traffic circle (Page 25 and 29). She suggested they
refer to it as the "Orange Plaza (Chapman/Glassell traffic circle)".
Commissioner Walters referred to Page 3 (State's letter to the City) and the issue of
occupancy rules and regulations. He wanted staff's interpretation of what that meant?
15
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
Mr. Murphy's assumption was that the State was talking about not eliminating affordable
housing through over enforcement of technical code requirements.
Ms. Chamberlain explained the State knew the City was in the process at one time of
approving an occupancy ordinance. They were very unhappy about that ordinance.
When the City didn't adopt the ordinance, there was relief. They really don't want the
City to pass an occupancy ordinance, but would rather the City use a more civilized
manner. The State also has documents showing approximately 20% of the City's multi-
family housing is overcrowded. The State is aware of what is going on. Their thought of
providing low income housing is to increase densities allowed.
Mr. Herrick was in contact with the Legal staff of the State who indicated that any city
that adopted an occupancy regulation that was different from the State standard would
not have an approved Housing Element, and that the Department was perfectly willing
to throw its Legal staff into any court cases involving cities that undertook programs they
felt were designed to discriminate against low cost housing.
Staff will continue to work on the affordable housing plan and the inclusionary ordinance
for the City which they hope to bring back to the Commission by the first of next year
with some answers.
Commissioner Smith commended staff on the sections that were written about the older
neighborhoods; they were sensitively written. Under the community participation
meetings she was rather surprised to see that the last meeting was held in 1987. She
hoped if further work was done on this, there could be some current community
participation meetings. Citizen input often brings good ideas about what is currently
feasible and what is going on in the community.
It was noted that certified E.I.R. 3-89 was identified as covering the environmental
qualifications and mitigation measures necessary for the project so that no further
environmental review is required.
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Bosch, to recommend to
the City Council to adopt General Plan Amendment 5-93, amending the City of Orange
General Plan by modifying the Housing Element.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Cathcart, Smith, Walters
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 14549 - SOUTHRIDGE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY
Revision of an approved tentative tract map in accordance with the conditions of
approval. This project was originally proposed with 105 lots, each a minimum 5,000
square feet in size. As conditions of approval, the City Council required that the map be
revised as follows:
1. That all lots have a minimum lot area of 6,000 square feet.
2. That all lots have a minimum lot width of 50 feet.
3. That the final tentative tract map design and site plan review shall be by the Planing
Commission and additional comments may be imposed at that time.
16
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
This project is part of the Southridge Planned Community, and is located on the north
side of the planned extension of Via Escola, east of the existing Belmont Estates
development, and west of the planned connection of Imperial Highway/Coma Street.
The Planning Commission is asked to review the revised map to assure that the revised
project is consistent with the approval granted.
Commissioner Cathcart excused himself from the meeting due to a potential conflict of
interest.
Commissioner Bosch had one concern on the cul de sac at Street G -- the on-street
parking. He didn't know if a study were made on the risks and values and the
marketability of reducing a certain number of the driveways to the throat of two and
widening to three where there are deeper set backs, and whether that would produce
any more parking. He's concerned that there are nine houses that eventually have a
couple of on-street parking spaces in front of them.
Mr. Godlewski said staff hasn't done a particular analysis on that cul de sac. Staff has
had very little contact from the tracts complaining about what they purchased. They
have talked to people in the East Orange area on other issues and every time we bring
up a concern, they almost always respond they like their neighborhood; they like where
it is. There have been no negative comments. There is more impact on that cul de sac
than normally seen.
Commissioner Walters spoke from personal experience of living in a cul de sac. One of
the motivation's of the homeowner is to keep your car parked in the driveway because if
the cars are parked in the cul de sac, the neighbors have a difficult time turning around.
Moved by Commissioner Walters, seconded by Commissioner Bosch, to accept
Tentative Tract Map 14549 and Administrative Adjustment 91-26 with conditions 1-41 of
the staff report.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Smith, Walters
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Cathcart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS
CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM -CITY OF ORANGE
The Planning Commission is asked to make a finding that the City's proposed Seven
Year Capital Improvement Program is consistent with the General Plan.
Jere Murphy was asked to make a brief presentation on behalf of Scott Morgan from the
City Manager's office. The Commission received a memo dated June 7 that identifies
five projects that do not conform with the General Plan and the recommendation is that
the Commission make a finding that all the other projects do conform to the General
Plan and that the General Plan must be amended before monies are expended on the
five projects.
17
Planning Commission Minutes June 7, 1993
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Walters, to find that the
Capital Improvement Program, as presented, is in conformance with the General Plan
except for those projects listed in the June 7 memo, which would require a General Plan
amendment before funds are expended.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Smith, Walters
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Cathcart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: OTHER ITEMS
Mr. Godlewski informed the Commissioner there may be a problem with the. July 19
regularly scheduled meeting. There will be two Commissioners absent at that meeting.
As of this date, staff has received one request for consideration at that hearing. That
item may or may not be ready to go at that time, based on what the applicant has
submitted so far. There is the potential for a cancelled meeting and the Commission's
consideration was appreciated.
The Commission felt it would be prudent to cancel the July 19 meeting based on staff's
concern.
Moved by Commissioner Walters, seconded by Commissioner Smith, to cancel the July
19 Planning Commission meeting.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Smith, Walters
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Cathcart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: PUBLIC COMMENT
Bob Bennyhoff, 10642 Morada Drive, Orange Park Acres, was opposed to the Edison
easement as open space.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Walters, seconded by Commissioner Smith, to adjourn at
10:00 p.m.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Smith, Walters
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Cathcart
sld
MOTION CARRIED
18