HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-21-1990 PC MinutesPLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
City of Orange May 21, 1990
Orange, California Monday - 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Master, Scott
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart
STAFF
PRESENT: Joan Wolff, Sr. Planner and Commission Secretary;
John Godlewski, Administrator of Current Planning;
Jack McGee, Director of Community Development;
Bob Herrick, Assistant City Attorney;
Gary Johnson, City Engineer; and
Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary
Vice-Chairman Master chaired the meeting.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: MINUTES OF MAY 7, 1990
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Scott,
that the Minutes of May 7, 1990 be approved as recorded.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1827-90 GENEVIEVE ALEXANDER/ELAINE
SCHRECR:
A proposed Conditional Use Permit to allow the conversion of
a residential structure to an office use and to allow
fortune-telling on property located on the south side of
Chapman Avenue, 250 feet west of Lincoln Street, addressed
1400 East Chapman Avenue.
NOTE: This project is categorically exempt from the
provisions of the California Environmental Quality
Act (CEQA) per State CEQA Guidelines, Section 15301.
This item was continued from the May 7, 1990 Planning
Commission Meeting.)
Ms. Wolff presented the staff report. This was a two-fold
request: one is to allow the practice of fortune telling in
an O-P zone; the second is to authorize the conversion of a
residential structure to an office use. The building is
currently being used as an office and is occupied by several
different tenants. In reviewing the application and
preparing the staff
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 2
permit history for a project site. In this case they were
not able to find evidence that a C.U.P. had been issued to
allow the existing office conversion; therefore, staff
folded this into the C.U.P. request. The existing building
is approximately 1,250 square feet located just outside the
Old Towne boundaries. The applicant has proposed to use one
of the offices within the existing building, approximately
100 square feet of office space, for the practice of fortune
telling, which will occur during standard business hours.
The visual character of the structure and the site plan for
the office building is very similar to that of surrounding
properties. The site is relatively small, about 7,500
square feet. The on-site parking and circulation meet code,
but parking is a concern due to the number of tenants that
are proposed to use the building and the access to the
parking area is fairly narrow - only allowing one-way
traffic.
The public hearing was opened.
Applicant
Genevieve Alexander, 913 North Benson, Upland, was applying
for the C.U.P. at 1400 East Chapman. She does not feel
parking will be a problem because her clients are spaced one
hour apart. Business hours are from 9 to 4. She has read
the conditions of approval and will comply with them.
Commissioner Bosch stated the conditions of approval are
requirements and must be accomplished. (The applicant was
aware of this.)
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Scott questioned the Environmental Review
Board's concern of the 10'8" wide driveway being inadequate;
however, the conditions do not address it.
Ms. Wolff responded it was not mentioned in the conditions
because it is a fixed dimension. There is a building on one
side and then the property line. There is no way it could
be widened without removing the building. It's a concern
that could not easily be corrected.
Commissioner Greek said the existing structure must meet the
handicap standards and wondered if the applicant was aware
of that. (She was aware of that condition. )
Commissioner Master asked if the current tenants were
licensed in the City of Orange? (Staff will check on that.)
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 3
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Greek,
that Conditional Use Permit 1827-90 be approved subject to
the conditions as listed.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Master, Scott
NOES: Commissioner Bosch
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED
Ms. Wolff explained this decision is final unless appealed.
There is a 15 day appeal period and if appealed, the City
Council will make the final determination.
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1834-90 - ALPHA BETA:
A proposed Conditional Use Permit to allow the installation
of a wall sign which exceeds the maximum sign letter and
height permitted by Code on property located at 940 North
Tustin Street.
NOTE: This project is categorically exempt from the
provisions of the California Environmental Quality
Act (CEQA) per State CEQA Guidelines, Section 15301.
A staff report was not presented and the public hearing was
opened. The applicant was not present; therefore, the
public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Scott said the Commission has tried to adhere
to the sign code, but in reviewing what the staff has
suggested, there will be no negative impacts on the
surrounding properties due to the sign and location of the
building being setback not only from Collins, but also from
Tustin, he concurs with the request.
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Greek,
that Conditional Use Permit 1834-90 be approved.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 2-90-B AND ZONE CHANGE 1127-90 -
CITY OF ORANGE:
Proposed modifications to zoning and general plan for
Cypress Street and AT & SF Railroad Depot areas as follows:
Cypress Street alternatives being considered:
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 4
A. Change General Plan from Low-Medium (6-15 du/a c) to
Medium Density Residential (15-24 du/a c).
B. Retain Low-Medium Density Residential (6-15 du/ac).
C. Rezone from R-3 (Residential Multiple Family District)
and R-4 (Residential Maximum Multiple Family District)
to R-2-6 (Residential Duplex District).
AT & SF Railroad Depot Area proposal:
A. Change in General Plan from industrial and general
commercial to Low-Medium Density (6-15 du/a c)
Residential and Old Towne.
B. Change zoning from M-1 (Light Industrial) and C-2
General Business District) to R-3 (Residential
Multiple Family District) and C-1 (Limited Business
District).
The Planning Commission may also consider appropriate
alternative general plan land use and zoning designations
for both portions of this study in addition to those listed
above .
Subject parcels are located in an area bounded by Glassell
Street on the east, Chapman Avenue on the south, Pixley
Street and the AT & SF Railroad on the west, and Rose Avenue
on the north. The area includes a neighborhood known as
Cypress Street and the vacant railroad depot building and
property.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1348-90 has been prepared for
this project.
Jere Murphy, Administrator of Advanced Planning, gave a
staff presentation and consultants were present to answer
questions or concerns. Copies of the consultants' report
and staff report were available for the audience. The
Planning Commission held an indepth discussion at their
study session last week. Most of the people who are
interested in this application have been in contact with the
staff either through the public workshops, in person or over
the phone.
There are two portions to the study area: the Cypress
Street area, where there is a present inconsistency between
zoning and general plan for the area; and the Railroad Depot
area, an area in which there is a proposal to change the use
from a basic industrial classification to more of a
retail-commercial and office and residential land use. The
two areas have received substantial amounts of input through
public workshops. A study session was held by Planning
Commission to review this combination of study areas.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 5
The written information that the Planning Commission has
received to date is a copy of a letter from the Old Towne
Preservation Association to the City Council with regard to
the Railroad Depot area; a letter from Ann Seibert to the
staff in support of the R-2-6 zoning for the Cypress Street
area; a similar letter to the Planning consultants; a letter
from John Azures to the Planning Commission (two weeks ago)
to retain the C-2 zoning on his property on Chapman Avenue;
another letter from the Old Towne Preservation Association
to the staff (May 18) supporting the R-2-6 RCD rezoning of
the Cypress Street area and an R-1 or R-2 zone on the
property at the southeast corner of Palm and Lemon; a last
communication was brought to the staff at this meeting from
the Luna and Lemus families with regard to their interest in
the properties within the Cypress Street area.
Commissioner Greek had a discussion with Mr. Lemus before
the meeting. Mr. Lemus was unable to attend, but had 16
lots on Cypress, Olive and Lemon and he requested they be
granted the maximum density.
The alternatives that have been identified for the Cypress
Street area were reviewed briefly:
1. The existing general plan and zoning for the area. The
general plan presently denotes the area as low-medium
residential (6-15 du/a c). That alternative provides
approximately 3 du/lot on the typical lot in the area, which
is 50 feet by 132 feet.
2. This identifies medium-density residential on the
general plan (15-24 du/ac) with the existing R-3 and R-4
zoning. That alternative would allow approximately 4
du/lot.
3. This alternative was suggested by some of the people at
the initial public workshops and identifies the property as
a general plan of 6-15 du/ac low-medium density, with an
R-2-6 zoning allowing 2 du/lot.
The Railroad Depot area:
1. Identifies primarily residential for the northern
portion of the study area and commercial and parking for the
southern portion, between Palm and Chapman as the two basic
land uses in the area. The other suggested changes outside
the study area are the office-professional zoning of the
present industrial property north of Palm between Palm and
Sycamore on the east side of Cypress Street, as a buffer
between the residences to the east and industrial to the
west (packing house property) . There is also a suggestion
to rezone the industrial property at the southeast corner of
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 6
Lemon and Palm to either an R-4 or R-3 zone. The plan shows
an R-4 zone because of the property immediately adjacent to
it is also zoned R-4, as is the property to the north of
Palm.
The concept
between the
as somewhat
That is why
with the re
Palm.
for the Depot
Railroad Depot
of an east/west
the commercia
sidential then
area is
area and 0
visual and
1 zoning is
completing
to develop a linkage
ld Towne, using Maple
pedestrian corridor.
shown north of Maple
that block north to
2. The second alternative is to modify the first
alternative only in the area of two blocks of the study.
The area east of Cypress Street because of concerns raised
by the owner and the lessee of property in that area wishing
to remain there for an undetermined length of time. The
plan allows for the retention of automotive uses in that
area under a C-3 zone and also does not change land uses on
Pixley Street in the area north of Chapman. It retains the
industrial area. There are considerable parcels
independently owned in that block and staff feels additional
discussion needs to occur with the property owners in that
area prior to taking any action to change the zoning at that
location. The focus of the Depot study is the Railroad
Depot area and the property immediately adjacent to it.
The next step in the process, with the adoption of a plan
for the Depot area, will be the development of an urban
design concept and street scape study to more specifically
identify what is anticipated to happen in the area based on
the zoning and general plan changes that are adopted by the
Planning Commission and City Council.
Commissioner Master wanted an approximation of where the
redevelopment area was.
Mr. Murphy used the map on the wall to outline the location
of the redevelopment area, which shows it as being Maple
cutting the project in half). It was his understanding
that the entire study area is within the redevelopment area.
Commissioner Bosch felt it would be helpful for everyone if
staff explained the differences between the zones that are
proposed.
Ms. Wolff explained that all the commercial zones basically
allow retail and office uses, restaurants, commercial
services. C-1 is the least intense and is the most
restrictive in terms of height and in limiting those uses to
only commercial. C-2 allows some automotive uses, it gets
into more industrial uses (very light type of industrial
uses) and C-3 allows a fair number of industrial uses (auto
uses and storage yards).
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 7
Commissioner Scott thought the City Council tried to make an
effort to remove the C-2 zone within certain areas of the
residential because of the proximity of tine shops, etc. off
of Chapman.
Ms. Wolff said there was some tightening up of the types of
automotive uses that were allowed in the C-2 zones. There
was a conditional use permit requirement that was installed
for any type of automotive use that was adjacent to any
residentially zoned property. That addresses most of the
C-2 properties because most of the commercial zoning is
along the arterial strips and is bounded by the residential
zones. Automotive uses would not be permitted by right.
The public hearing was opened.
Bea Vega, 486 North Olive, submitted a petition from her
neighborhood. They have 75 resident owners and 104 resident
non-owners. She was in favor of low density (R-2-6 zoning) .
Celia Mendez, 468 North Olive, said her house was very old
and she could not afford to fix it. She favors the higher
density and wants to be a good neighbor.
Rellee Ruiz, 578 North Lemon, also signed the petition for
the R-2 zoning. She read the beginning of the petition for
the record - request that Cypress Street area be rezoned
from R-3 and R-4 to R-2-6 allowing a maximum of two units to
be built on a lot. She circulated one of the petitions over
the weekend. She has never walked the streets of her
neighborhood because she does not feel safe. She got to
know some of her neighbors and was overwhelmed and surprised
at how many people who live in the area agree that there is
enough apartments as it is. Most of the residents are
willing to go with the idea of two units on a lot. She has
lived in Orange for 35 years, has lived on Lemon for 10
years. There is a third generation of family living in her
home -- grandparents, parents and children. The study of
home ownership might not be accurate because many families
live in the home, bu t do not own it (their parents or
grandparents own it). It's still a family home. She was
concerned because a traffic study has not been done for the
area. She gave some pictures to the Commission of her
neighborhood - Cypress, Olive and Lemon Streets - apartments
already existing in the area. There are a few homes, but
they are behind 6' to 8' bars. She would like to see the
fences torn down and the neighborhood cleaned up to be like
the other three quadrants of Old Towne. There are a lot of
gang problems with enormous amounts of graffiti. Shootings
are occurring in the area. A number of people loiter in the
apartment areas at all times of the day and night.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 8
Vince Rodriguez, 400 North Citrus, also owns property at 470
and 472 North Lemon. He spoke on behalf of his parents who
live at 568 North Lemon. His parents are typical of the
many senior citizens who live in the Cypress Street area.
They live in the first home they were allowed to buy due to
racial barriers. They are proud citizens, homeowners and
care very much for their community. Over the years their
community has deteriorated due to increased violence, crime,
traffic and overcrowded streets. A solution to these
problems does not include increased density. Everyone
should be looking to decrease the density, reduce the
parking, traffic and increase police activity to support
those areas. If higher density is approved, it will force
many of the senior citizens to leave the area due to the
safety f actor. He asked f or consideration of the lower
density.
Robert Baier, 860 Laurinda Lane, owns property at the corner
of Walnut and Cypress and objects to rezoning it to
residential. It's not an ideal place for residential. If
the street were widened, it will take 10' to 15' off of one
lot. There are two lots there. If zoned for M-1, the
smaller lot could be used for parking, but it wouldn't be
adequate for residential. The change of zoning would be a
loss of value.
Carole Walters, 534 North Shaffer, would like consideration
of keeping the area zoned R-2. She lives next door to a
duplex. It is so crowded and the kids have to go some place
else. Our kids need more room to enjoy their life at home.
Resident, 291 North Shaffer, wanted clarification on the
parcel at the northwest corner of Palm and Lemon. Under
which plan is it affected?
Mr. Murphy explained the proposal to change the use is
basically reflected on all the plans. The zoning is
proposed to be changed from the present M-1 industrial to an
office-professional district on the property, which would
allow the existing use to continue on that southern large
property on Palm.
Dale Forester, 159 Pixley, has industrial (M-1) zoning and
is against changing it to any other C-1 or R-4 zoning.
There are all businesses there now with residential across
the street. He believes there is a 26~ vacancy factor for
office-professional (C-1) . He does not feel it will benefit
any of them. He owns four lots on Pixley and would like to
build some nice industrial buildings there in the near
future but is afraid to do anything right now.
Ann Seibert, 340 South Olive, lives in the southwest
quadrant -- not the Cypress Street area. However, over the
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 9
past five years they have lost at least six historically
significant homes due to higher density, 4-plex units. Over
those five years they have watched increased crowding,
traffic and police presence. She supports the R-2-6 rezoning
of the Cypress area to save it from a similar plight and
hope that possibly this might be a stepping stone to change
some of the rest of Old Towne.
Sharon Schaefer, 344 South Center, stated the situation in
the Cypress Street area is not unique and feels it is time
to evaluate the current plans and perhaps gain some benefit
from the experiences from other cities. She commented on
the zoning changes of Santa Ana, which has led to the
creation of slums with high concentration areas of crime
characterized by drug related crimes and graffiti. Many of
the same problems already exist in the Cypress Street area
and the only way to save the area is to lower the density to
R-2-6.
Solidad Ruiz, 455 North Harwood, owns property at 578 North
Lemon and favors the low density zoning. She feels the
traffic study is a good idea.
Dan Slater, 278 North Pine, commented on Exhibit 7 of the
Cypress Street Land Use Study. It points out the different
apartments and what is on each particular lot. On the 400
block of North Cypress, west side, he sold the commercial
lot that is now a single family residence and what use to be
the old Friendly Center a few years ago. The two lots south
of that (one designated as a 10 unit apartment and the other
one, 7 units) -- everything he knows about that area,
there's not more than two units on that particular site.
He's a little concerned that the number of apartments might
have been over estimated in the report. He's a real estate
broker doing most of his business in Old Towne. He said the
real estate market in Old Towne remains quite healthy, even
though much of the real estate market today is in a slump.
Old Towne still remains the hottest area in the city. It is
due to people who want to buy single family homes in Old
Towne and who actually want to live there. He is always
asked about zoning. The concern is about what the neighbors
are going to do with their property. People don't want to
invest in and improve single family homes in multiple zoned
neighborhoods. This is the problem in the Cypress Street
area. The residents have had to deal with this for many
years. The people feel very put upon and feel like they are
being squeezed out of the neighborhood. Even though this
area has been zoned multiple family for years, it still
remains - 79$ of the lots - are either single family
residential or R-2. An R-2 zone is best for the long-term
investment and values in the area.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 10
Many senior citizen residents stood for the Planning
Commission to acknowledge their presence, but they did not
speak.
Emma Felix, 942 East Candlewood Avenue, owns a family home
at 343 North Cypress and wanted to know what was planned for
their property (across from the packing house) .
Mr. Murphy stated that property is currently zoned
industrial M-1. There are residences on most of the middle
block parcels with industrial uses to the north end and a
sizeable office building at the south end on Palm. Staff's
proposal is to show that area as office-professional on the
general plan and zone it to the office-professional district
as a transition area between the residential to the east and
the industrial across the street to the west as a more
appropriate zone and use than the present M-1 industrial
use. The residential use of the property is a legal
non-conforming use. The property can be maintained as it is
at the present time indefinitely.
Tita Smith, 169 North Shaffer, grew up at 474 North Batavia
where her parents still live (about three blocks from the
Cypress Street area). When she was a child she was able to
walk to that neighborhood to play with her school friends
and it breaks her heart to see how that neighborhood has
deteriorated over the last four decades. She is afraid that
deterioration will continue in the neighborhood and she
spoke to an issue that has not been raised. She attended a
historic preservation conference in February, 1990 in
Riverside sponsored by the California Preservation
Foundation. She spoke about the legal issues the Foundation
deals with regarding rezoning, of takings, of not letting
people build to their maximum potential in historic areas.
Legal issues are a great concern to the City of Orange,
which tends to have a rather conservative approach to
development and planning. There is preservation law which
the City has never called into play, but it's out there to
support the interest of rezoning and down zoning in a
historic district. She encourages rezoning to R-2-6 to be
able to maintain the neighborhood as a residential family
neighborhood; not an absentee landlord area.
Commissioner Greek said the Commission was looking for some
tools that will bring the vitality of the Cypress Street
neighborhood back. He was asking for suggestions on how to
retain the quality of life.
Ms. Smith thought an aggressive refurbish renovations and
landscaping program for the Cypress Street area is needed.
There are 75 property owners; it's not totally a rental area
yet. There are programs available, but there has not been
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 11
an aggressive attempt to inform people of what is available
and assist them to bring their houses up to code and to
landscape their yards. Redevelopment has 20$ set-aside
monies to be spent on housing. The housing money has been
spent on senior citizen housing. This pot of money could be
designated for a particular area (Cypress Street) to
refurbish the neighborhood. If it goes to high density,
those homes will be demolished and replaced by the cheapest
possible 4-unit apartments that can be built for absentee
landlords to make money on. It will move the long-term 70
year community out of that neighborhood eventually.
Commissioner Greek asked Mr. Rodriguez if a program of this
nature would help his parents.
Yes. Mr. Rodriguez' parents want to continue living in
their neighborhood, but if high density is allowed, they
will have to move. This is their only home they have ever
owned. Restoring the area will help eliminate the situation
on Cypress Street. The quality of life is more important
than making a side profit to Mr. Rodriguez.
Mark Clemens, 146 North Shaffer, did not live in the area in
question, but would vote for low density. He does not feel
comfortable driving or walking in that area because of the
crime problems. He is opposed to high density; the crime
will increase.
Randy Ema, 142 North Cypress, expressed concern about the AT
SF Railroad area. He has a limited note at this time that
must be refinanced. He will not be able to refinance it if
the City does not come up with a plan to do something. He
has expressed his concern to staff. It presents a problem
for him, as well as other people. It will present a
financial hazard because of the legal non-conforming use if
they change it from the existing M-1 to C-2.
Ms. Smith responded to Commissioner Greek's question. A
person can retain their own single family dwelling, but if
the people on either side of you builds an apartment, you no
longer live in a family residential neighborhood; it's now a
rental neighborhood. She discussed the dollar amount it
would take to restore many of the homes in the Cypress
Street area; $5,000 to $10,000 could make a big difference
in a residential house. Her point is that the advantage
should be given to the residents rather than to the outside
buyer who is going to come in and make a profit.
Ms. Ruiz did not feel the Commission was giving the people
in the neighborhood enough credit. The people who live in
the area have a lot of pride. The people are one of your
tools. Give them the R-2-6 zoning and they will make sure
that's all there will be. The neighborhood will clean
itself up quicker than the City.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 12
Ms. Walters said the
built out and as a
sidewalks. There is
park on the sidewalk.
400 block of North Cypress Street is
result, cars are parking on the
too much development if a VW has to
Flo Kinder, 1342 E. Hickory Lane, owns property at 115 and
117 East Rose. This area doesn't concern their duplex
except with the additions of a high rise across the street
from East Rose and on the opposite corner of West Rose, some
terrible parking problems have developed. In canvassing the
Cypress Street area, they found many homes being cared for -
pride of ownership. They also saw trashy areas and lots of
traffic. These areas need to be addressed through City
ordinances. She discussed the issue of absentee landlords
with Commissioner Greek.
Ms. Rodriguez, 388 North Lemon, has lived in the Cypress
Street area almost all of her life. She has been happy and
secure with wonderful neighbors. They take care of each
other. If high density is proposed, they will lose the
caring feeling in the neighborhood.
Dick Kinder, 1342 E. Hickory Lane, said if higher density
zoning would create a problem where structures were torn
down, he could visualize that some of the people who would
have to move, would become homeless. Traffic will have a
major impact on the existing streets if higher density were
allowed.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Master commented about the traffic
concerns/issue. He's not sure if it were correctly stated
that there were no traffic studies. There may not be an
individual traffic count in the area, but there were studies
made regarding what the impact would be via the number of
units.
Mr. Murphy responded the Negative Declaration included some
discussion of traffic based on the experience they have had
in the surrounding area and with the general plan update of
last year. It addresses the arterial system more than the
local street system. -The updated general plan includes an
analysis of Chapman Avenue and Glassell as part of the
circulation system, along with Walnut and other collector
streets (i.e. , Palm, Palmyra, and Almond) . The parking
situation, even with new development, should not get any
worse than it is at the present time. With the existing
grid pattern of the streets in the area it could sustain the
existing general plan (Alternative 1). It was also
suggested people voice their concerns about existing traffic
problems to the Traffic Safety Commission.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 13
Commissioner Scott addressed the concern of extending Maple
Street westerly from its presently dead end. This goes back
to 20 years ago when the City was trying to make a loop
around the Plaza and extending Maple. The Railroad has
first say on it and they would not grant the extension of
Maple across the railroad track.
Mr. Murphy responded to the issue of past traffic studies
and the analysis of owner-occupied parcels vs. non-resident
owned parcels. The map is based on the assessor's tax
rolls. Staff is aware there may have to be a phasing of
rezoning in the area in order to accommodate individual
property owners' needs for not becoming a legal
non-conforming use in order to not interfere with financing
of their properties.
Commissioner Master agreed a phasing plan needs to be
developed.
Commissioner Bosch said the transitioning of property from
one use to another is a difficult situation, particularly
when the use is from one density to another. There are a
series of problems: transitional uses west of Cypress,
south of Walnut that are proposed to remain in residential,
but they are still transitional from amore traditional
residential neighborhood to a railway. How do we allow that
transition to occur and still allow quality of life for
residential housing adjacent to the railroad track. We can
expect to see more rail traffic in the future as a key
element of transportation for the area. Similarly, in the
Depot area, a plan calls for conversion of obsolescent
industrial plants to residential, presuming willing property
owners, but we still have the problem of transitioning that
from more traditional residential areas to residential
adjacent to a railway track. He had less problem with the
transition from single family residential to M-1 or from
low-density residential to M-1 than he does with the main
railway track. Another concern is the phasing program to
avoid the legal non-conforming use that will affect
financing. He would like to see the outline of that kind of
plan. How can the City legally implement that to do what
they feel is in the best interest of the citizens as a whole
and provide the tools to the property owners without
damaging them in short term. Short term damage might be an
action the City takes without that kind of phasing program
in place. With regard to the Cypress Street neighborhood
itself, there are a couple of problems. There is a boundary
line for the Cypress neighborhood which exists in everyone's
minds, but it isn't real in terms of what the boundaries of
the neighborhood necessarily are. Part of it relates to the
Redevelopment Agency boundaries, part of it relates to
zoning, part of it relates to existing residences -- it's an
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 14
artificial line. The City needs to look at the concern
about adjusting that line for transitional uses. There is
not a zone which allows mixed use. He leans towards the
lower density of R-2-6, recognizing that it creates a lot of
non-conforming uses for existing lots that have a higher
density. There's little difference long term, but as great
a damage to single family property owners whether the City
does redevelopment by the World War 2 process of bombing the
land to clear it, reassembling it and redeveloping, or
whether the City bull dozes it lot by lot -- it has the same
impact on the person whose home is their castle, something
they have worked their lifetime for. There are a variety of
programs that the City has keys to in helping the residents.
The key to restoring quality of life in the neighborhood is
not a job merely of adding to the number of dwelling units,
but providing the financing tools and stability for the
certainty of fact of what the future of the neighborhood is
going to be. Two things are killing it now -- the
uncertainty and the fact that the current zoning, which many
people would like to maintain, hasn't provided any tools.
Change has to occur and the choice is greater density or
less density, but make it stable. Greater density will be
destructive for the area, but more education needs to be
made available to the City and residents as to what these
tools are. Tools need to be in place to convince residents
that even the low density plan is ready to move ahead.
There is not enough information for the Commission to act in
a manner that he could feel comfortable with. He would like
to maintain a good transitional relationship of M-1 where it
can be a good neighbor also with incentives for cleaning it
up and improving it to existing residential. Let's get rid
of the obsolescent where it occurs and provide quality
residential and let's maintain lower density in the more
traditional single family residential neighborhood in a
stalled transition to help that transition improve the
property values.
Commissioner Greek wanted to know how to upgrade the area,
what are the tools that are available? He heard
Commissioner Bosch say it should be broken down block by
block in order for the Commission to come to a decision.
The Commission should attack one area at a time -- either
the Depot or housing area. He suggested a detailed tour of
the housing area to find out how the problems can be
resolved.
Commissioner Bosch concurred. It should be split into two
areas. They work together, but the boundary is easier to
work with than the extremes. The line that is drawn for the
Cypress Street area is too arbitrary. It's a small area,
but it's not simple.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 15
Commissioner Bosch thought the study area was a great idea.
He would like to work towards the goals and implement them
recognizing that it might take 25 or 30 years to reach them.
The use proposed for the Depot area is a good idea.
Commissioner Scott concurs. He was happy to hear about
bringing the neighborhood back to the residents -- getting
the gang infestation out of the City.
Commissioner Master felt separation of the two areas is a
key point. The Commission needs to consider an approach in
order to give direction to staff as to what they think is
the next step.
Commissioner Greek recommended attacking the process by
concentrating individually on the depot area, and postpone
this to the next meeting.
Ms. Wolff said the Commission could postpone the hearing to
a study session for a tour of the area.
Commissioner Scott asked what the boundaries were for the
depot area?
The Commission discussed boundary limits of the depot area.
It was decided they tour the area block by block within the
focused study area.
Commissioner Greek would like to talk to the property owners
to get their opinions and ideas before acting on this.
Commissioner Bosch would like to see something prepared on
the phasing plan, a listing of the tools available to the
City through Redevelopment, set-aside programs, current City
Public Works programs that affect the area, and how those
impact a decision on the land uses in the area, and some
specific directed input from staff on transition areas
particularly on Cypress Street in the Cypress area,
transitioning from residential to 0-P, residential to M-1,
0-P to M-1, etc. There is apparently a successful
transition between single family residential and M-1 in the
100 block North Pixley. He would like to hear more on why
O-P necessarily is a better assist to that given the other
tools available than M-1 is. Not a word has been said about
the future of the Orange Unified School District property.
It has a big impact on the middle of this neighborhood and
input is needed from staff on the alternatives being
considered for that and how those alternatives might enhance
or negatively impact the alternatives before the Commission
for conclusions in the Cypress Street area.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 16
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Scott,
that General Plan Amendment 2-90-B and Zone Change 1127-90
be continued to a study session on Wednesday, May 30, 1990,
2:00 - 4:00 p.m. convening in the parking lot for a tour of
the proposed Cypress Street and Depot study areas.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Scott,
that General Plan Amendment 2-90-B and Zone Change 1127-90
be continued to June 18, 1990 (to continue the public
hearing).
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS ITEM
SITE PLAN REVIEW - C RAWFORD HILLS ASSOCIATES:
Commissioner Greek was excused from the meeting due to a
potential conflict of interest.
Review of the distribution of guest parking through the
townhouse development proposed on the east side of Crawford
Canyon Road, north of Chapman Avenue. This review is to be
conducted in accordance with Condition #88 of Tentative
Tract Map 13529.
This is part of an overall project which includes 182 acres
located northeast of the intersection of Crawford Canyon and
East Chapman Avenue, known as the Crawford Hills
development.
The purpose of this review is a site plan review to fulfill
a requirement that was placed on the project as a condition
of approval of both Tentative Tract Map 13529 and a
Conditional Use Permit 1678. This condition states, "Site
plan for Area II shall be revised to the satisfaction of the
Planning Commission to provide for adequate distribution of
guest parking throughout the townhome development." This
townhome portion of the Crawford Hills project consists of
232 units. Because it was a previous planned unit
development, each unit has a parking requirement of 2.5
spaces; 2 spaces for resident parking and .5 space for guest
parking. Each residence has been provided with a 2 car
garage and unenclosed guest parking is dispersed throughout
the development. One hundred sixteen guest spaces are
required and 120 are shown on the plans. All streets within
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 17
this development are private streets. The backbone streets,
which are known as A street up at the northern boundary and
J Street which winds down through it, are 32' wide paved
street sections. The private access driveways are 24' wide.
This current plan does show an improvement in terms of
parking distribution over the previous plan. Both plans are
shown as exhibits on the wall. It will be the Planning
Commission's determination as to whether the parking
distribution is adequate and this will be a final
determination as to whether this plan satisfies the original
condition of approval. The site has significant slope
areas. The parking layout is somewhat constrained by the
grading concept and needs for the site. There have been a
number of retaining walls that have been proposed to create
the flat pad areas for the streets, residences and for the
parking areas.
Commissioner Scott asked if the guest parking has been
redistributed.
Ms. Wolff said that was correct. There seems to be a few
more spaces in some areas. She tried showing the Commission
a comparison of how it was previously and how it is now of
parking spaces by clusters of units.
Commissioner Bosch wanted to know about the accessibility of
vehicular movement to and from the units. How do you come
past the parking spaces to get to them? Turn arounds,
visibility, away of identifying routing to guest parking --
was this considered in the applicant's proposal? Buildings
47 and 48 are remote on the site, back up against the
hillside. They have 3 guest parking spaces at the back end
of it, but it's difficult to access and turn around vs. some
of the other cul de sacs.
Applicant
Kristin Dorschlage, landscape architect for the project,
said there was a hammer head at the cul de sac for a turn
around. The street layout plan has been approved by the
Fire Department as far as accessibility and turn arounds.
Commissioner Bosch's concern goes beyond code and goes to a
good living environment. On that particular drive there are
8 units that have a hammer head turn around at the back end.
Anyone who cannot access their garage or who is looking for
guest parking finds the three at the back taken, it's a very
difficult trip for them. The other concern was kind of
street scape, dangers, site line clearances, that migh t
develop to the west between buildings 53, 54, 55 and 56
where each of the dwelling units have 18' minimum driveways,
but they're perpendicular to a 7.2 gradient. There's a
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 18
private drive serving 14 units -- that's almost solid
driveways with a 7.2 gradient across the drive, which
creates a rather radical driveway problem that will inhibit
the use of the drives as guest parking.
The reason their firm has addressed the driveway as being 18
feet is because of the street grade problem. There are
retaining walls and splits in the units there, but they were
unable to accommodate separate guest spots. In this case,
each of those driveways can be used to hold another vehicle.
Commissioner Master was concerned that the City do another
review on the proposed parking arrangement. Could there be
substantial change in the final grading?
Ms. Dorschlage said the plans have been done in conjunction
with the engineer using their computer information; it's the
most precise and current grading plan.
Commissioner Scott was concerned about the retaining walls
being seen on the next set of plans.
Ms. Dorschlage said they were addressing those issues at the
next level (D.R.B.). This was put together to specifically
address the parking distribution.
Commissioner Scott asked if a precise grading plan has been
submitted?
Mr. Johnson said there was a precise grading plan that has
been submitted, but it has not been approved or checked at
this point. There is a rough grading plan, which was
approved. It shows the proposal of additional retaining
walls that were not envisioned as a part of the tentative.
Those retaining walls are due in part to some changes in the
grading and some enlargement of the planning area. What is
in substantial conformance? What constitutes substantial
conformance? Basically, walls that are put into reclaim
land is somewhat of an afterthought, but if they're not
detrimental to the development, then he sees no problem.
Commissioner Scott said the area for proposed parking could
change with a final grading plan.
Mr. Johnson did not know if the plans have been reconciled,
but he's assuming it has. He's concerned that they don't
lose any parking, that there will be adequate parking within
the constraints of the grading.
Commissioner Scott though t they couldn't make a decision
until staff has had an opportunity to evaluate the final
grading plan vs. the rough grading plan that has been
submitted.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 21, 1990 - Page 19
Mr. Johnson agreed staff would need to look at the plans in
more detail.
Commissioner Bosc
site, adjacent to
exhibited with a
on the original
has been lost and
gained in terms of
h noted at the northwest corner on the
building 4, seven guest parking spaces are
retro grade hammer head turn around, where
approved plan there was a cul de sac. It
he's concerned about it. Nothing has been
guest parking.
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Bosch,
to continue the Crawford Hills Associates site plan review
in order for the City Engineer to review the final grading
plan and the additional retaining walls that have been
proposed, as well as circulation and the adequacy of guest
parking.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
Greek, Hart MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Scott,
that the Planning Commission adjourn to a joint session with
City Council Tuesday, May 29, 1990 in the Weimer Room from
2:00 - 5:00 p.m. for the purpose of reviewing the Capital
Improvement Program; then immediately thereafter to a
special Planning Commission meeting to determine conformity
of the C.I.P. with the General Plan.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Hart MOTION CARRIED
The meeting adjourned at 9:55 p.m.
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