HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-05-1990 PC MinutesPLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
City of Orange March 5, 1990
Orange, California Monday - 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Bosch, Hart, Master, Scott
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek
STAFF
PRESENT: Joan Wolff, Sr. Planner and Commission Secretary;
John Godlewski, Administrator of Current Planning;
Jack McGee, Director of Community Development;
Bob Herrick, Assistant City Attorney;
Gary Johnson, City Engineer; and
Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 5, FEBRUARY 14, AND FEBRUARY 21, 1990
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Minutes of February 5, February 14, and
February 21, 1990 be approved as recorded.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch,
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek
Hart, Master, Scott
MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1814-89 - LEE & YANG ARCHITECTS:
A proposed Conditional Use Permit to allow the construction
and operation of a 59 unit motel in the C-2 zone (General
Business District). Subject property is a 39,200 square
foot parcel located on the south side of Chapman Avenue just
east of the 57 Freeway, addressed 2330 West Chapman Avenue.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1328-89 has been prepared for
this project.
This item was continued from the February 5, 1990 Planning
Commission Meeting.)
The public hearing was opened.
Applicant
An-Chi Lee, 3711 Long Beach Blvd. #423, Long Beach,
architect for the project, revised their plans to address
the Commission's concerns from the previous meeting. They
propose to move three guestrooms on the second floor, from
the southern property line to the western property line, to
create more interesting elevations and allow more setbacks,
eliminate all windows on the second floor along the rear
property line, and raise the block wall at the rear property
line to 7'2"
Planning Commission Minutes
March 5, 1990 - Page 2
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Bosch felt the revisions fulfilled the concerns
he had about the plan previously presented to them by
reducing the scale of impact of the sou th wall upon the
residents.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Planning Commission accept the findings of
the Environmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration
1328-89, with mitigation measures 1-4, and to approve
Conditional Use Permit 1814-89, with conditions 1-24 as per
the revised plans, including raising the height of the block
wall to 7'2".
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
ORDINANCE AMENDMENT 1-90 - CITY OF ORANGE:
A proposal to amend Section 17.10.040 and 17.94.050 of the
Orange Municipal Code regarding the keeping of birds on
residentially zoned property.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1322-90 has been prepared for
this project.
Chris Carnes, Associate Planner, presented the staff report.
Staff has prepared Ordinance Amendment 1-90 at the direction
of the City Council. The Council had heard complaints from
the residents of Orange that the City's present restriction
that only allowed the keeping of five birds was too
restrictive and did not allow people who wished to keep them
as a hobby or as a pet, to keep more than five birds.
Staff, after reviewing with Code Enforcement Division, the
Environmental Review Board, and the City Attorney's Office,
developed an ordinance amendment to allow the unlimited
keeping of birds subject to approval by the Zoning
Administrator under a Conditional Use Permit application.
Staff developed this procedure in handling the unlimited
keeping of birds for four reasons: (1) It notifies the
applicant of the City's requirements; (2) It keeps a record
on who is keeping the unlimited number of birds; (3) It
notifies neighbors of the request to keep the number of
birds and allows them to review the project and become
informed about what the requirements will be for the
application; and (4) It regulates the placement of bird
aviaries or coops.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 5, 1990 - Page 3
Presently, the Uniform Building Code would not require a
building permit and somebody could come in and just build
one. By the C.U.P. requirement, it would regulate placement
of it. The ordinance amendment does include regulations and
setback requirements for the aviary. The Zoning Admini-
strator was recommended as the reviewing body as the Z.A.
already approves and reviews minor land use requests (i.e.,
beer and wine licenses and day care centers). The proposed
ordinance amendment does not permit the keeping of
additional poultry and provides definitions to differentiate
between poultry and birds. Poultry and farm animals could
cause a major nuisance in a residential area if allowed to
be kept at more than five.
The ordinance amendment f ollows the existing zoning
ordinance in keeping the five number of birds. It is not an
established number. It can be more or less depending on the
wish of the Commission. The ordinance amendment on the
setback requirements for coops and aviaries also followed
the ordinance on the placement for animals to be kept.
Chairman Hart asked if you would call a duck a bird, would
it be a bird or duck?
Mr. Carnes responded a duck falls under poultry and fowl, as
would a peacock. The ordinance amendment does include a
listing of birds that would be considered as pets. The
Director of Community Development is recommending to have
some lee way when a question comes in on whether it's a
bird, fowl or poultry.
Chairman Hart thought the issues of setbacks may be of
interest to the audience.
Mr. Carnes stated the amendment proposes that a person could
build a coop or aviary on to the back of the house. The
minimum distance from a neighboring residence would be 20
feet.The rear setback would be 10 feet and the side
setback would be 15 feet.If a neighboring residence were
built to code, he would also have a 10 foot rear setback and
minimum 5 foot side yard setback. It would be at least 20
feet from a neighb oring residence if legally built.
Staff read the proposed text of the staff report to the
audience for clarification, which included five changes.
Commissioner Scott asked what "occasional" sale of birds
meant -- every six months, once a year?
Mr. Carnes responded it meant every six months, or twice a
year.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 5, 1990 - Page 4
Commissioner Bosch asked if people automatically become in
violation of City ordinance when birds have off spring and
they exceed the number of five birds for a short period of
time? Is this intended to apply to adult birds or juvenile
birds?
Mr. Carnes said they could fall back on the regulations for
dogs. If they're less than six months old, they're not
counted as an adult. If the birds are less than a certain
size or age, then they wouldn't be counted as one.
Those speaking in opposition
Mary Tradea, 1245 South Olive, Santa Ana, asked how much the
Conditional Use Permit fee was and if it were a one-time
fee?
Mr. Carnes said a Conditional Use Permit costs $260; it's a
one-time only fee. If approved by the Zoning Administrator,
the Use goes with the land as long as the applicant meets
all the conditions of approval.
Ms. Tradea felt the fee was expensive. This isn't a
business, but a hobby that somebody is enjoying.
Chairman Hart explained why the City charged a fee for the
Conditional Use Permit process.
Ms. Tradea couldn't understand why the City had to notify
residents within 300 feet. She didn't want it advertised
that she had expensive birds for fear of them being stolen.
Commissioner Bosch wanted to know how many birds a hobbyist
might have before it gets to be excessive?
Ms. Tradea said that was hard to say because it depends on
the person and how much time they want to spend with their
hobby. A fair judgment would be if it were a nuisance or if
it were not kept clean. The L.A. law is based on a nuisance
type complaint.
Teresa Mather, 3320 Ruth Place, said zebra finches only cost
2 a piece. It doesn't make sense to get a $260 permit for
12 worth of birds. She works in a pet store and is aware
of theft rings that do specialize in birds. It's a real
danger when people know what you have. Theft of birds could
be a problem in some neighborhoods.
Delores Palush, 2231 East Trenton Avenue, thought the code
needs to be revised, but it has to please everyone. She's
in favor of what is said in the new code except for three
things: the Conditional Use Permit, the five birds and
Planning Commission Minutes
March 5, 1990 - Page 5
neighbors. The L.A. code is fair because it takes care of
all that. The person who complained about her birds is not
even a neighbor. She lives in Anaheim Hills. She has
letters from her immediate neighbors who all like the
birds. She had 65 birds at the time of the complaint, bu t
at one time she had over 100 Finches and several other
species of birds. People two doors down from her didn't
even know she had birds and nobody complained about them.
She did not think it was a good idea to notify the neighbors
as it will result in theft of the birds. She felt $260 was
a lot of money for a hobby.
Felice Bonner, P.O. Box 2592, Orange, has very valuable
birds. She has had someone try to get into her "baby room"
where she keeps baby birds, but her dog alerted them and
they were able to protect them. Most of the bird breeders
refer to themselves as aviculturists -- a person who tries
to preserve certain birds on the endangered species list.
Through the Fish and Game Administration, hobbyists have
donated birds to help preserve them. She felt the City was
discriminating by charging a conditional fee. She doesn't
want her neighbors knowing what she has in her yard. As far
as age limit for birds, she hand feeds a Macaw until it is 9
or 10 months old before he becomes saleable. He doesn't
become mature until he is 7 or 8 years old. The $260 fee is
ridiculous. Most of the people are on limited incomes.
Florence Smith, 10601 Henderson, Garden Grove, is a member
of the Orange County Bird Feeders and other organizations.
She became interested in birds and loves her hobby. What
affects the City of Orange might affect other cities in the
County. To put a limit of $260 on someone who is a hobbyist
doesn't make sense.
Patrick Tapley, 1431 Kekoway, Santa Ana, asked why the birds
were listed on the staff report? The two basic issues are
noise and sanitation.
Chairman Hart explained there were birds and fowls. It
would be impossible to evaluate every bird.
Mr. Tapley asked who benefitted from the $260 fee and where
does the money go?
Commissioner Bosch explained the C.U.P. process and City
ordinances which are mandated by state law requirements.
Mr. Godlewski said a Zoning
level of review the City has.
responsible for the action
City Planning Commission. The
are only notified to a 300
advertising in the newspaper;
Administrator
It's a single
that is taken
Zoning Adminis
foot radius.
no publication
is the lowest
person that is
it's not the
trator hearings
There is no
anywhere other
Planning Commission Minutes
March 5, 1990 - Page 6
than the 300 foot radius. The $260 fee not only pays for
the postage, but also pays for staff time in reviewing the
applications. It includes the Zoning Administrator going
out to each and every individual request, makes a personal
visit to the site and looks at the property and tries to
analyze in the best land use sense whether or not the birds
will create a problem or not. City staff does not have
expertise in every variety of bird possible; however, they
tried to list every bird that would be considered a bird and
put that on the list. They also have provisions in the code
that would allow something that is not on the list to be
considered by the Director. The $260 is the lowest
administrative fee. A Conditional Use Permit before the
Planning Commission starts at $500 and goes up from there.
The fee also includes the public hearing. The Council
Chambers are set up and the Zoning Administrator sits and
listens to testimony from the neighbors. If the neighbors,
who have been notified, have suggestions or perhaps a
condition that is not obvious in the field that can be
resolved, then those conditions are added to make the
proposal agreeable to everyone involved.
Commissioner Scott asked when staff advertises for a C.U.P.,
do they call out what type of bird it is?
Mr. Godlewski said they identify the request only. It would
be a request for the keeping of more than five birds at a
particular address. There would be no identification to the
species of the bird.
Chairman Hart wanted the audience to know the Commission did
not have any control over the $260 fee. That fee is set by
the City Council. He suggested they address the issue of
the fee at the City Council level.
Louis Palush, 2231 East Trenton Avenue, asked if it cost
more to run the City of Orange than the City of L.A.? Why
do they have to be charged a user's fee and not the City of
L.A.? The City of L.A. does not charge a fee.
Mr. Carnes stated the City of L.A., due
bird keepers, passed an ordinance which is
allows the unlimited keeping of birds.
complaint, the City has to go ou t and
animal regulation people then determine
problem is. They do not require a Condi
and it is permitted as an accessory use.
to concerns from
very simple. It
If there is a
look at it. The
if and what the
tional Use Permit
Mrs. Palush had a copy of the L.A. Code. She also talked
with Kathy Lyons, editor of Bird World. She helped propose
the L.A. code. She stated there were no problems. Mrs.
Palush though t the L.A. code was very fair and it did not
cost the people to keep their birds.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 5, 1990 - Page 7
Teresa Mather said you could keep approximately 40 finches
in a small cage in your living room. Why do you need a
Conditional Use Permit for something so small?
Mrs. Bonner was curious to know why the City took a
complaint from someone living in Anaheim Hills and not in
the City of Orange. She felt the City was making a mountain
out of a mole hill. She also asked why the City didn't
consider the L.A. Code?
Chairman Hart responded that was not one of their options.
The City Council ordered the Commission to hold this public
hearing.
Commissioner Bosch asked previous questions to help guide
and assist the Commission on the issue of whether or not an
ordinance is appropriate or what should be contained in it.
Instead, he has heard words that do not apply to them, and
has yet to hear a good education to help identify what is
needed.
Andrea Brannell, 413 Black Oak, Anaheim Hills, is a member
of Orange County Bird Breeders. The concern, besides the
cost, is just having a limit on this hobby. Is there
another way to resolve the problem without enacting the new
ordinance?
Dave Baumgardner, 11891 Laurelene Street, Garden Grove, has
been raising birds in his back yard for 15 years. Garden
Grove now has a law similar to the one Orange has on the
books. A person filed a complaint with the City of Garden
Grove against him. It's important to see that the cities
get laws where the people can use the property for the birds
as long as they do not infringe upon their neighbors. He
likes the way L.A. set up their code. A number on bird
keeping is difficult to set. A key factor should be noise
and sanitation. A Conditional Use Permit would be
appropriate if it were a business where they were raising
birds for profit. But most of the people raise birds for
fun; it's a hobby.
Chairman Hart summarized the concerns of the bird hobbyists.
They are aware that birds do not make a lot of noise and
they're not a problem to neighbors (because the neighbors do
not even know people have them). He concedes that $260
seems to be a lot of money for a hobby.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Scott added that the City of Orange
acknowledges that it is part of a wild bird sanctuary and it
was adopted in the early 60's. He has compassion for the
people who raise these birds. It was brought out tonight
Planning Commission Minutes
March 5, 1990 - Page 8
the birds are not annoying to their neighbors. Since this
is the first complaint on birds, he suggested to continue
the concept of this ordinance amendment for a period of one
year for review (earlier if additional complaints come up)
along with some of the questions that has surfaced regarding
size, number of birds, sanitation, etc.
In response to Chairman Hart's question on the limitation of
birds, staff stated current ordinance limits the number of
birds to five. Staff is looking for a revision to that
ordinance.
Chairman Hart concurs with Commissioner Scott's idea to
adjust their thinking. He's not opposed to the system the
City of L.A. uses to act on complaints. That seems to be
more fair.
Commissioner Bosch had trouble leaving the limitation to
five on the books as it is now. In reviewing the proposed
changes, he does not see any problem with the first part -
Definitions. Poultry is also fine. He prefers to see the
keeping of birds for pets or hobby as a right that goes with
the single family residence, subject to reasonable sanitary
controls. That can be defined several ways (by the list of
proposals included on Page 7 of the staff report):
Occasional sale isn't a problem; confine indoors or in a
coop or aviary; keeping them clean; if the Code Enforcement
Supervisor determines it has become a nuisance and it isn't
cleaned up, then something should happen. The only problem
is that a coop or aviary should be constructed a minimum of
20 feet from an adjacent residence or 10 feet from a rear
property line and 15 feet from any side property line --
that could be a bit onerous. There may be a problem with
attachment to a fence, but he doesn't know too many people
who keep birds as a pet outdoors. They typically keep them
free standing rather than attaching to a neighbor's fence.
He doesn't see a problem with having structural restraints
on it any more onerous than those applied to any other
allowed accessory building in a residential zone. If there
is a way to word this, everyone would be happy: clean
definitions, allowed by right, not limit the number,
obviously if it becomes a hazard or nuisance, that's going
to become known because the neighbors will complain and that
will be taken care of; then allow the same structural
standards as apply to other accessory uses (as far as
setbacks).
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Planning Commission accept the findings of
the Environmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration
1328-90.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
March 5, 1990 - Page 9
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Planning Commission recommend to the City
Council that Title 17 of the Orange Municipal Code be
amended as written in the staff report with the following
changes: Include from Page 6 of the staff report the
wording as shown for Chapter 17.04 Definitions, which also
continues on to Page 7. But under Chapter 17.10.030 R-1-6
Single Family Residential District, delete "Subject to
Conditional Use Permit". The keeping of an unlimited number
of birds is recommended as a permitted use with occasional
sales permitted and subject to keeping birds confined
indoors or in coops under sanitary conditions. Policing
will be accomplished by Code Enforcement. Development
standards as are now required for accessory structures
should apply to coops and aviaries. Then, include in the
proposed amendment the reference to Chapter 17.22 as stated
on Page 8 of the staff report, but to not include the
proposed amendment to Chapter 17.94.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Chairman Hart explained it has been determined by the
Commission there will be no Conditional Use Permit required.
It will be similar to the City of L.A.'s method of keeping
birds. This is a recommendation to the City Council.
People in attendance at tonight's meeting will be notified
of the City Council's hearing date.
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS
1. General Plan Conformity Determination - Addition to
Santiago Oaks Regional Park.
There is a 32 acre open space parcel which the County
has asked the City to provide a report from the
Planning Commission on whether open space designation
on the property is consistent with the City's General
Plan. Staff's recommendation is yes, it is consistent.
A resolution has been provided for the Commission's
consideration.
Bob Bennyhoff, 10642 Morada Park Drive, Orange Park
Acres, said this was the last piece of Shirley
Grindle's open space in the E1 Modena Hills. Everyone
out there is in support of this and would like to add
this to the open space and preserve the hills.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 5, 1990 - Page 10
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner
Bosch, that the Planning Commission adopt Resolution
No. PC 14-90 which finds that the proposed open space
dedication is in conformance with the Orange General
Plan.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT:Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
2. Consideration of Resolution No. PC 20-90 - expressing
appreciation to John Lane for his loyal and dedicated
service to the Planning Commission.
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Planning Commission adopt Resolution
No. PC 20-90 to John Lane for his services to the City.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT:Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner
Bosch, that the Planning Commission adjourn to a study
session on March 12, 1990 at 5:00 p.m. in the Weimer Room to
consider findings and overriding considerations in
deliberations and plans/applications before the Commission;
then to adjourn to a regular meeting March 19, 1990 at 7:00
p.m., proceeded by an administrative session at 6:30 p.m.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
The meeting adjourned at 8:25 p.m.
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