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Home My WebLink About12-13-2000 - Minutes TC � CITY OF ORANGE �. .. _,. ��£ '4 4"i. { CITY TRAFFfC COMMISSION IVlinutes of a Regular Meeting: December 13. 2000 I. OPENING �4. Flag Pledge � B. Roll CaIL• Present-Commissioners: D.Yarger,J.,Fortier, F.Petronella,W. Poutsma, F. Sciarra Present-Staff:-H.Bahadori, C.Glass,Sgt.J.Gomez-Whiteley, D.Allenbach, P.Then,W.Winthers C. Approval of Minutes: - November 8,2000—Approve as published by.the Recording Secretary. MOTION: W. Poutsma SECOND: F. Petronella . AYES: Unan�mous � II. CONSENT CALENDAR There are no Consent Items this month. 111. CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1. Request to remove the permit parking restrictions from both sides of James St. between Century Ave. and Palmyra Ave. � Julie Wiech � 90 S.James St. Orange CA 92869 Ora!presentation is based on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request ACTION: Approve the removal of the existing permit parking restrictions from both sides of James St. befinreen Century Ave. and Palmyra Ave. � . MOTtON: J. Fortier � . SECOND: W. Poutsma AYES: Unanimous Tape#CTC-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is availoble for your review. ,�. Pleose contact the Recording Secreta at(714)7445536 in this regard,odvance notice is appreciated. �� Printed on Recycled Paper Minu4es af a Regular Meeting-City ..�iffic Commission—December 13,2000 Pg.2 2. Request for the installation of a protected left-turn signal on Katelta Avenue to provide additional access to the Stadium Promenade Center. Economic Development Agency CITY OF ORANGE Oral presentation is based on the written staff report;please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this requesf. Robert Spain, Mqr.of Stadium Promenade Center—We have 2 separate parking lots on our property as it was built and opened in 1997;we are currently in an expansion mode to add a hotel to the far west end of the center and adding some restaurants to the pad adjacently to Katella at the west entrance. The east parking lot in question is what we are trying to improve access to. With these additions we are having on the east side that west lot currently is our prime lot and is our primary entrance and folks even going to the restaurants tend to use that simply because they can't quite figure out how to get over to the east parking lot. Without this left-tum signal what we anticipate happening is that Main St. and Katella Ave. becoming more of a tum-around intersection than it currently is. With the new development in the west parking iot and increased traffic people will be more inclined to try and find another way in off Katella. Currently the access into the restaurants in the east lot is adjacent to King's Fish House, and it's a right turn only into the center and its quite busy. Our point and what we want to accomplish is how we will access the center for the future. We have been pursuing this for about a year and have a feasibility study for the left-turn lane that was performed earlier this year. We feel this is a key part of the expansion and successfu! leasing and turning the center into a much more successful property. Patrick McGorky, Acapulco Restaurant—This left turn lane issue has been something that we have been waiting for since we've opened. We are successful at this center; however, our projections are funning 15-20%less than our original projections. We support the left-turn lane at this location: Jeff Kin4. King's Fish House—The center is moderately successful compared to The Block at Orange, I would say it comes in at a close 10th in terms of success. The only successful merchants in the center today are the theaters, Chili's, King's Seafood Co. and Acapulco Restaurant. We met with the City last year to discuss a new left-tum signal on Katella Ave. If you don't know your way around this area its very difficult to find the entrance if you're driving eastbound on Katella Ave.from the Anaheim area. John Hill. Robinson Hill A.I.A.—Regarding the upgrade to the center, presently it is not completely leased out, so full occupancy has never been obtained on the site. With our present renovation and changes to the site with the introduction of the hotel and expansion of the pad along Katella and when the other spaces become leased the actual impact of parking to the west parking lot and the need for the overflow in the east will also increase. � Chairman Yarger— In the original plans for the center did you have 2 entrances, both being able to enter from Katella Ave. having left-turns into the center? John Hitl. AIA—We were not the original architects for this project so I cannot speak to what the original concept entailed. Chairman Yarger—Befinreen the two signals at the main entrance to the center and at Main St.,what is the� approximate distance between those 2 signals? � Dave Allenbach. Transportation Analyst — It looks to be approximately 500-600 feet befinreen the two signals. � Chairman Yarger — Pursuant to the request for the new left-tum lane with a traffic signal, how much � distance is there between the main entrance into the center and the proposed new signaf? Tape#CTG20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting�s available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �� Printed on R cted Pa r �Y Pe Minutes of a Regufar Meeting-City .ffic Commission—December 13,2000 pg.3 Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst—Approximately 250 feet. Chairman Yarger— In town we have another hotel that you can't make a left-tum in where you have to go - past the hotel and turn left at the signal,that is the Doubletree Hotei and that doesn'�even have a median and people are able to get in there. You say people have trouble seeing the entrance, what is the possibility of putting up signage up to advise motorists to go to Main St. and make a left tum and another left-turn into the east parking lot from Main St. entrance? I've been out here a lot and although I am� familiar with the area it doesn't seem that difficult where you have to be a rocket scientist to figure out how to get into that facility, there are enough entrances into the center from Main St. and Katella Ave. as it exists right now. My concem is with installing 2 traffic signals within 160 feet of each other on a street th�t has 3 travel lanes in each direction, basically those are high speed roadways coming through this area. Commissioner Sciarra—I feel the same way, perhaps some kind of signage indicating entrance from Main St.would facilitate the situation. Hamid Bahadori, Mgr. Transportation Services — This signal is a component of several things that is happening in that area. You refer to additional signage and informationaVdirection signage. Economic Development staff is working with the property owners, Syufy Enterprises and their architect, additionally the city just completed the sidewalk between this property and the Santa Ana River on the north side of Katella Ave. The intent of that sidewalk was to remove some visual impediments to make the center more visible as a whole for eastbound traffic along Katella Ave. Chairman Yarger—Mr. King are you contemplating putting in valet parking? Jeff Kinq, King Restaurants—There is valet parking in the back lot.during weekends. Chairman Yarqer—My concem about valet parking is you have people pull up and stop their car and get out, someone comes around v�ithin 1-2 minutes, and you can stack cars up in the area where the new left- turn signal is planned and that has the potential to create a hazard for the motorists on Katella Ave. Jeff Kinq — The valet parking is not adjacent to our restaurant. The traffic studies have been made showing the following, with a properly timed left-turn signal properly tirried with the signal on Main St., which has a potential for accidents with people trying to make a U-tum. Chairman Yaryer-There can't be any trouble making U-turns from Katella at Main St. because there are 3 travel lanes for each direction. The only vehicle that might experience difficult making a U-turn at this intersection would be a semi-truck because there is so much room available. Jeff Kin4 — Welf someone making a U-turn at this location has to have a lot more patience than I do because I've had to wait 3 signal phases in order to get up to the intersection and make a U-tum. Chairman Yarqer — What time of day are you talking about, I know we have busy streets but I can't imagine the traffic being that heavy from my years of knowledge of this city on Katella Ave. What is the city's expense for this signal? Will the city have to do all the median work and lighting? , Hamid Bahadori, Mar. Transaortation Services—The estimated cost of this project prepared by the land owners consultant is $127,000:00 Of that, the City's Economic Development Agency will contribute $85,000 and Syufy will contribute$42,000 if the project is to be implemented. , Commissioner Petronella — What are the options, depending on our action today, what are the options available to the deveioper? Tape#CTC-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � PBease contact the Recording Secretary at(714 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. . �Printed on R cled Pa r ecY pe Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City ..�.fic Commission—December 13,2000 Pg.4 Hamid Bahadori, Mgr. Trans�ortation Services — There is no other recommendation from stafF for consideration. As mentioned in the staff report,should you approve the project it stiii has to go before the City Gouncil for 2 reasons; because the City Council is the only authorized body to have final approvaf on any traffic signal in the city, and because there will have to be an amendment to the owner participation agreerreent so that the land owner is responsible for the payment of the maintenance fees of this traffic signal for future years. Council also has to act in their role as Directors of the Economic Development Agency to authorize the expenditure of the $85,000 of their funds. The Council and the Board of Directors of the Economic Development Agency have to act. The this Commission denies and votes not in favor of this project,we will not proceed any further unless an appeal is made to the City Council. Chairman Yarger—There is talk that if we approve this request and install a tra�c signal that we would . coordinate that light with the signal at Main St. so that westbound traffic would not be stopped at that light and the left-turn arrow would give you a left-turn once the westbound traffic is stopped at Main St., is that correct? . Hamid Bahadori—That is a potentially desirable scenario; however, if you're asking me when people are making a left tum there won't be any cars between this new signal and Main St., no I cannot guarantee that. , Chairman Yarger—How long will this left-turn lane be and how many cars can it store? Hamid Bahadori — The left turn lane they are proposing is 200 ft., this size of a left turn pocket.at a conventional traffic signal can hold up to 8-9 cars. Chairman Yarger—Mr. King indicated that you have to wait up at Main St. through 3 traffic signal phases because cars are backed up so far you can't make the left turn. It looks to me that we couldn't store enough cars at this new signal without creating potential accident problem with cars stopping in the extreme left lane trying to get into the turn pocket. Hamid Bahadori—The intersection of Main St. and Katella Ave. is operating a Level Of Service B,which is a very good level of service. I disagree with the premise that you need to wait 2 or 3 cycles before making that U-turn. Vice-Chairman Fortier— Do you see a potential problem of people being in the !eft tum pocket and cars coming westbound Katella now blocking Main St. because they are stopped 250 ft.away from the signal at this new entrance into the center? Hamid Bahadori — Peak hour for westbound traffic on Katella is in the early hours of the moming when there won't be high demand for left-tums into the center. The peak hour for this new signal will be either for the lunch hour or evening din,ner hour, which the westbound Katella Ave. does not have a peak. However, if there is an equipment malfun�tion and for whatever reason this signal is stuck and people are sitting here and backing up to Main St., there would be that potential. Under regular conditions there is not a high probability. �ce-Chairman Fortier—In your professional opinion that will not cause a problem? Hamid Bahadori—Under normal operating conditions no. �ce-Chairman Fortier—This center does have access problems. Commissioner Poutsma—ln your professional opinion,would this new left-tum lane create a tra�c safety problem on Katella Ave.? , 'Tape#CTC�20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � PI��contact the Recording Secretary at(714 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. . — �Printed on R cled Pa r �Y Pe Menutes of a Regular Meeting-City :�fic Commission—December 13,2000 pg 5 Hamid Bahadori —We wili not bring any recommendation to the Commission if we believe it creates an unsafe condition. Whenever you produce a point of interaction between vehicles where one does nof exist today, you potentiatly are increasing the potential for accidents,this is a new traffic signal and people j are going to be making a left turn at this location when they are not making it now, if they make it correctly and the equipment works properly we believe it is safe; however, introduction of any point of interaction befinreen vehicles where one does not exist, potentially creates an increase in potential for accidents. �ce-Chairman Fortier—As I review this I have problems with the proposal; however,we have made other exceptions like this. It's a safe move, it does cost some money, it will benefit the patrons of the center and the City, so I feel its not out of line to put this in. � Commissioner Poutsma —This will be a permissive signal and the left turn arrow won't come on unless there is someone in the turn pocket, is that correct? Dave Allenbach. Trans�ortation Analvst—That's correct there are left tum inductive loops imbedded into the pavement and they will give a call to the controller cabinet when a vehicle is in the tum pocket. Chairman Yarger— How will it affect westbound traffic? Are you going to have a program set up that you're not going to have a car start at Katella and come down 400 ft. and have to stop again? Hamid Bahadori—All signal coordination programs go back to default when there is pedestrian activity at any location. We can set up the system working in a way that these people when they start westbound on Katella Ave. at Main St. do not have to come to another stop at this left turn condition, at that time no pedestrian is crossing either leg of Main St. or.Katella Ave. Once a pedestrian actuates a signal the signal goes back to its default timing and then there would be the potential for once you will start at Main St. and then you will have to stop again here. Chairman YarQer—We're not going to put in any crosswalks here are we? Hamid Bahadori—Not at this location. ACTION: Accept the proposal for the installation of a protected left turn lane and a traffic signal on Katella Ave. into the Stadium Promenade Center. MOTION: Yarger SECONDe � Fortier AYES: Yarger, Fortier, Petronella, Poutsma IVOES: Sciarra Tape#CTG20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on R cled Pa r �Y Pe Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City ,ic Commission-December 13,2000 p9 g . - IV. ADMINISTRATIVE REP4RTS None this month. V. ORAL PRESENTATIONS PUBLIC PARTICIPATION —At the conclusion of the meeting of items listed on this Agenda, members of the public may address the City Tra�c Commission on matters not on the Agenda, that are within the subject jurisdiction of the City Traffic Commission. ��.�i.ari.rieri.�i,�%ri.wi.r�.o�i.��,�ri.s�,:rae�i�isi�,►rmi.�ri.si,s�a�i,�imi.oioia►isisi,'i.rri.ti,ei.si,w�i.nimdi.arr�i.rrisisi.,ri.a�iwi.ari.ri,,riari.�i<a►i.r�,�i.wrarerisi.wre►isi►imriiwi,oiwioi,w�i,eri�i�.ri.aiss��i.ri,wi.�i,ari.�►i,�r,►r.ri.sisri.w�rer�wi.ai.ai.er.� � �� Open discussion of items not previously discussed on the Agenda. Time limit is three(3)minutes per speaker. � �:�,�,�,.�,.�-,.�,�,.�,w,�,.�,,�,�,.�,�.,..,.�:�,.�,��.�,.�,�,,��o,..,,�,,�,s,.�,.�,.�,.�.�,..,.�,�,..,.�,,�,.�,,�,..%�,.��„�,a,.�,.�,��,�,.�,�;,�,�.,..,,.,.�,�.,..,,�,�,.�,�,�,�,�.,,�,.�,�.,a,.�..�,�,�,,�,,�,,�,�,�;.�,�,�.,a:�:.,.�� None this month. VI. ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda items of the City Traffic Commission was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission at 3:55 p.m. A special meeting of the City Traffic Commission will be held Wednesday—January 10, 2001. Respectfu)ly submitted, CITY OF ORANGE Phyllis Then . Recording Secretary � � Traffc Engineering Division CITY OF ORANGE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION 300 E.CHAPMAN AVE. ow�NG� CA 92866 � PHe (714)744-5536 Favc: (714)744-6961 - L1 -MINUTES-DECEMBER [DISK#20/THENP] Tape#CTG20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �� Printed on R cled Pa r �Y Pe