The URL can be used to link to this page

Home My WebLink About11-08-2000 - Minutes TC CITY OF ORANGE CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: November 8, 2000 I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call: Present-Commissioners: D.Yarger,J. Fortier, F. Petronella,W. Poutsma Present-Staff: -H. Bahadori, C.Glass, Sgt. B. Green, D.Allenbach, P. Then Absent—Commissioners: F. Sciarra Absent—Staff: W.Winthers Co Approval of Minutes: October 13, 2000—Approve Revised Minutes correcting "Roll Call". MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: J. Fortier � AYES: Unanimous II. CONSENT CALENDAR 1 o Request for the installation of "No PARtaNG�wvT�ME" restrictions on the south side of LaVeta Ave. at Woodland St. [CTC/952/11-00] Megan Shackleton 3741 E. Fernwood Ave. Orange CA 92868 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report;please refer to your copy. There was no discussion on this item. � ACTION: Approve the installation of 50 ft. of"No PatK�N�awvrinne" restrictions on the south side of LaVeta Ave. east and west of Woodland St. MOTION: D.Yarger SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: Unanimous Tape#CTC-20.07 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secreta at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Traffic Commission—November 8,2000 pg.2 2. Request for the installation of red curb markings at the intersection of Almond Ave. and Cypress St. [CTC/953/11-00] Darrelynn Smith 2005 W. Culver Ave.,#20 Orange CA 92868 Ora!presentation is based on the written staff report;please refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request: ACTION: Approve the installation of 30 ft. of red curb markings on both sides of Almond Ave. east of Cypress St. � MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: Unanimous � � End of Consent Calendar � II1. CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1. Request for the installation of an "All-Way" STO�P control device at the intersection of Regency Ave. and Meredith St. [CTC/954/11-00] Frank DeBenedetto 2770 N. Meredith St. Orange CA 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report;please refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request. ACTION: Approve the installation of an "All-Way" STOP control device at the intersection of Regency Ave.and Meredith St. MOTION: J. Fortier � SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: Unanimous 2. Request for the installation of an "All-Way" STOP control device at the intersection of Sirius Ave. and Spinnaker St. [CTC/955/11-00] Charmaine Nunez 3001 E.Vine Ave.,#D Orange CA 92869 Oral pr�esentation is based on the written staff report;please refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request. � ACTION: Approve the installation of a "2 Way" STOP sign for east and westbound Sirius Ave. at Spinnaker St. MOTION: D.Yarger SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: Unanimous � Tape#GTC-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in ttiis regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City l�ar'fic Commission—November 8,2000 pg.3 3. Request for the installation of a warning flasher at the intersection of Main St. and Maple Ave., and relocation of an existing "25 MPH WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT" sign on Main St. south of Maple Ave. [CTC/956/11-OOJ James Smith 358 S. Main St.,#178 Orange CA 92868 Oral presenfation is based on the written staff report;please refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request. ACT'ION: Deny the request for the installation of a warning flasher at the Intersection of Main St. and Maple Ave., and relocation of an existing "25 MPH WHEN CHILDREN ARE PRESENT"sign on Main St. south of Maple Ave. . � MOTION: D.Yarger SECONDe W. Poutsma AYESo Unanimous 4. Request to remove the Permit Parking restrictions from both sides of James St. befinreen Century Ave. and Palmyra Ave. [CTC/957/11-00] . Julie Wiech 190 S. James St. Orange CA 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the fo/lowing discussion of this request: Eu�ene Henderson. 150 S. James St. —(Opposed)— Before we had:these parking restrictions we had a difficult time finding a place to park and even today with these restrictions people still come here and park without permits. We've had to call several times to have them removed. Cars park from the apartments across the street,they dump their cars overnight and on weekends. Since these restrictions were enacted that problem has been eased quite a bit. From Chapman southerly to Century that is where the problem comes from for us it extends all the way to us; and we never heard anything about this petition. Julie Wiech. 190 S. James St.—(In Favor)—When the petition went in it covered all of James St., Century and Thomas with the explanation that with the McPherson Athletic Facility going in these restrictions would help resolve their overFlow parking. I have found that there are still people parking without permits and one of the problems and inconveniences to us is that it doesn't seem to be enforced. We are far � enough away from the circle that we don't have a lot of parking controf officers in our area. As a homeowner I'm inconvenienced by having to go out and give my guests a permit and get it back when they leave. Any time there is a special event at Fred Kelly Stadium or at McPherson Athletic Facility I have found that they suspend the parking restrictions anyway. So at times when these restrictions would be convenient to have permit parking only and I have called with a complaint of cars parking on the street without permits, I have been told that Sgt. Green suspended the restrictions because there is an event going on. I did collect 63%support on my permit, there were people that were opposed to restrictions but they didn't want to put their name to something. Tape#CTC-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City 1 ratfic Commission—November 8,2000 pg.4 . Da[lene Winters. 245 S. James St. —(Opposed)—Before McPherson was redone we had lot's of overflow parking from the soccer teams who park in front of the house blocking our driveways and left all their trash. When the petition was being circulated I didn't sign it. I talked to a number of my surrounding neighbors and Julie did not mention to them that if the parking restrictions were removed and at a later date we want it reinstated there would be a $400 filing fee, plus we would have to pay for the parking permits. Once the neighbors knew this they were a little upset they had signed the petition. Since vve have had permit parking these last two years it has eliminated a lot of the cut-through and speeding traffic on our street, and we can now park in front of our homes. We receive 7 permits so if you have a frequent quest you can just give them one of the permits and you still have plenty left for other visitors. These are single-family homes and if you have more than 7 cars it really isn't that much of a problem. Chairman Yarger—Once the permit parking restrictions are in place and the residents request its removal it doesn't get reinstated for free does it? Dave Allenbach. Transaortation Analyst — That is correct. In this particular circumstance the area surrounding McPherson Magnet School and the Athletic Facility built by the City, the initial $400 application fee was waived by the City Council because the athletic facility was a City project the residents should not be required to pay for the parking permits. Initial inclusion in the parking permit program was free, however, it was with the proviso that should any of the residential areas elect at some point in time to withdraw from the program, and if they should then wish to be reinstated, the $400 application fee would be appropriate. Chairman Yarger— lt was said that some of the neighbors who signed.the petition were not aware of the application fee. Would you have any objection to re-circulating the petition advising them of this issue? If that would be the case I would be willing to continue this to another meeting. Julie Wiech — It was not my intention to mislead anybody. I myself was not aware of the additional fee until after I had returned the completed petition to the City. It's an inconvenience to go around again but if that's what it takes then I will make the time to do so. Chairman Yarger—Darlene;would you be willing to help re-circulate the petition? Darlene Winters—I will be happy to help. Dave Allenbach. Transportation Analvst — We can create a new blank petition form that will inform everyone about the cost of reinstating the program. Vice-Chairman Fortier — Obviously they have experienced the parking permits and feel they don't need them and therefore I would be willing to make a decision today. What does it matter if we make a decision this month and not next month, and then change it back. They are saying there isn't a need for the permits. I don't think the$400 fee should be an issue. Commissioner Petronella—I'm concerned about the enforcement aspect. Is there no enforcement during special events? Tape�TC-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City �,affic Commission—November 8,2000 p�,5 Sqt. �ob Green. OPD Traffic Bureau—I think Ms. Wiech said that I suspend the permit parking restriction in the area. That is not correct. There are suspensions that are done and many time Community Services calls over and asks for us not to enforce because it has gone through Tra�c Engineering and the City Council and a joint decision is made, not just my decision to suspend enforcement. f must say that several weeks ago there was a large event at the McPherson complex, Community Services was not made aware of the event, I believe it was the day they had pictures taken and team selections were made, it was a very large event and it came to the attention of the Police Dept. We went out and observed the situation, there were literally hundreds of cars parked all around the McPherson complex and nobody knew the event had been scheduled. So at that time, yes we did �suspend the permit parking on that particular day because nobody had notified us about the event. There was a big communication breakdown, which has subsequently been rectified by Community Services. Mrs. Wiech is correct in stating that at times when there is a large gathering down there, they will suspend the permit parking but they have to go through both Traffic Engineering and City Council for approval; and I. think they are restricted to a certain number of events per year in accordance to the agreement when the complex opened. Hamid Bahadori, Mgr. Transportation Services —The only body with authority to suspend permit parking restrictions is the City Council, as the permit parking programs are established by the Municipal Ordinance only the Council may suspend enforcement. The incident Sgt. Green referred to and as he explained there was a breakdown in communication befinreen the Community Services and the other departments in the City, nobody had been informed of this event unfortunately, and the Police Dept.was faced with a very difficult situation. Do you cite 200-300 people or what do you do? It was decided in the field by the officers, and I believe rightly so, not to enforce the parking restrictions. Other than this situation these parking restrictions may only be temporarily suspended through a formal action of the City Council. Commissioner Poutsma— I have a problem when I see a petition in front of ine and after the fact there is discussion that perhaps some of the people who have signed it may not have been informed of all the ramifications the action would have. I would be in favor of having these ladies re-circulate the petition so tha#next time we see a signature we would know the person really knew what they were signing. ACl"ION: Send out a new petition with full disclosure of ramifications removing permit parking restrictions would have, including the$400 fee for reinstatement at later date. iVIOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: W. Poutsma AYES: Yarger, Petronella, Fortier NOES: J. Fortier Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst— Next month is our last meeting and we are dark in January. If we don't get the petition back at least 10 days before the next CTC meeting it won't be before you until February. , Tape�T�-20.08 of this City Traffc Commission meeting is available for your review. � Plea�e contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City l�arfic Commission—November 8,2000 Pg 6 5. Request for the closure of Live Oak Drive at Newport Boulevard with a cul-de-sac and construction of a watl separating Live Oak Dr. from Newport Blvd. [CTC/958/11-00) � Roger Liegmann 7634 E. Live Oak Dr. Orange CA 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this request.� RoQer LieQmann. 7634 E Live Oak Dr. — (In Favor) — The basic reason of our request is safety for our children. There are a lot of people who exit the tract and use our tract as a short-cut even if they don't live here they come down Deep Springs Rd. and exit off Live Oak. Another item to consider is that this is the only residential street in a!I of the Santiago Hills development that has an entrance onto a major arterial street either Newport, Chapman or Jamboree. Even the neighborhood adjacent to us, they had a street with a second access onto Chapman Ave. and that was completely closed with a wall even though it had� been initially required by the City when the development was built and they closed off that access for similar reasons. Actually we are asking for a full closure and not just the right turn out, we want the right turn in to be closed as well because people come from the mini-mart across the street and they gun it to get across Newport and enter the neighborhood too fast and it's unsafe for our children and makes it difficuft for us to ride bikes and things we like to do out in front of our homes. Vice�Chairman Fortier — Did you hear what staff had to say about the closure, that both Police and Fire need access here. Roq.__er LieQmann—Yes. When we met with them originally they expressed to us that there was an option available of setting up a median that no traffic would be able cross but emergency vehicles could drive across. If that is the case we would like to propose that type of inedian be constructed where the entire street is blocked to traffic but allows for emergency vehicle access. Also, I would like to suggest that the neighborhood beside us had the same situation and they had the street completely blocked off with a wall and everything and there is no secondary access to that neighborhood, in fact there are a couple of neighborhoods without secondary access so I'm wondering why it would be required on our sfireet when it's not required in any of the other neighborhoods in the Santiago Hills development. Hamid Bahadori. Mqr. Transportation Services — The option of a cul-de-sac is available to you. Cul-de� sac's can be designed to accommodate emergency vehicle access, they are rather expensive, probably in the neighborhood of $45,000-$50,000. That alternative is available to you. There are no traffic issues justifying that type of cul-de-sac installation, that is a "quality of life" issue to provide this type of closure. The turn restiction for the right turn is justi�ed because of the sub-standard sight distance requirement, however, the cul-de-sac alternative is available at a cost of$45,000 - $50,000 and can be designed and constructed to accommodate emergency vehicle access. Chairman Yarg�er — When you say emergency vehicles, can motors get through that type of barricade without any trouble? Hamid �ahadori — It can be done and it has been done throughout the County, there are difFerent alternatives, most of them are not very aesthetically pleasing because at the same time the emergency vehicle access is accommodated it must be done with such devices as flexible delineators to discourage regular vehicles from going through. The cities of Huntington Beach, Costa Mesa and Laguna Hills also have similar type designs. Vice-Chairman Fortier—Roger,what is you prime reason for having a cul-de-sac? Tape#CTG-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �� Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City l�arfic Commission—November 8,2000 pg,7 Ro er Liegmann—Safety for our children. Vice-Chairman Fortier—In what respect? RoQer Liegrnann — Cars that come whipping by at speeds that aren't safe for our kids to be crossing the street and that sort of thing. Chairman YarQer — I'm familiar with that street and I can't see in that short area, when you talk about "whipping b�' to describe high speed, how vehicles generate that high a speed within a distance of 4 houses from Newport to where it make that right turn. Ro er Liegmann — What basically happens is if they are coming down Deep Springs they cut off the corner comp{etely even though there is a yellow line, in one case they missed the curve completely and went over the curb and hit the dividing wall in our neighbor's yard. Then people are crossing Newport from the mini-mall into the street at a high rate of speed and then they don't slow down. Chairman Yarger—The people crossing Newport are those people who live in your neighborhood? Vice-Chairman Fortier—We don't cul-de-sac streets because people speed, that is not a good reason, I think you can realize that. You might have a good reason because of a sight variance of cars pulling out, but you can see for yourself that if people come here and said we want our street turned into a cul-de-sac because people speed, that isn't reasonable. Roger Liegmann—Safety is not an issue with you guys huh? Vice-Chairman Fortier—We have a lot of streets and just because people speed is not a reason to turn it into a cul-de-sac. We have Police enforcement and other measures to help people comply with speed laws. RoQer Lieqmann—We have never had Police enforcement on our street. Chairman Yarger— Most speed enforcement is done by motor officers. We have a city comprised of 25 sq. miles and we 8 motor officers, and they don't all work at the same time. These are people who come down Deep Springs then turn onto Live Oak and then go out to Newport. If you can't get out onto Newport then there is no reason for them to come down the street. Roger Liegmann —That only takes care of half the issue. I think our Police do a wonderful job but they don't have enough manpower to enforce all our streets so it does become a safety issue for us and our children to have people gunning it across Newport and enter our street at a high speed. Chairman Yarger—The City Council will have to make the final decision. If they don't cul-de-sac the street I think what I would do if I lived in the neighborh�od, I would follow one of those people who you're talking about who drive so fast, and I would just talk to them neighbor to neighbor and tell them that I lived in the neighborhood and you would appreciate it you could slow down. The Council may come back to you, if they approve the cul-de-sac, and ask the neighborhood to help pay for it. RoQer Liegmann—Hey,we're willing to do that. I'm willing to do that. Tape#CTC-20.08 of this City Tra�c Commission meeting is available for your review. � P9ease contact the Recording Secretary at(714 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Rec cled Pa er Y P Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City l�arfic Commission—November 8,2000 Pg.8 Suzanne Oberly, 7649 E. Live Oak Dr. — (In Favor)— Concerning closing the street with a full cul-de-sac your comments to us is basically why, and I would like to ask you why not. Cul-de-sacs are already in piace, we have already established that we do not need that as a through street. People coming from the mini-mall are using our street as a short-cut and it's for their convenience only, no other reason, they are putting our children in danger, whether the cars are going 5 MPH, 10 MPH or 30 MPH, our children are in danger for a street being used as a short-cut. Why not give us a cul-de-sac, why not give our children the right to play out front without having to worry about being run over. Commissioner Petronella—But nobody has the right to play in any public roadway whether you cul-de-sac it or not. So you're not asking for the street to play in: Suzanne Oberlv—Why can't you give us a full cul-de-sac with emergency access? We're asking for that, we think quality of life is important to us. If money is the issue we're wifling. Chairman Yarqer—Have we done a tra�c count on that street? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — It's been a while, and I don't think the traffic volume has changed a lot since our last count. We're talking about 300-400 vehicles a day using Deep Springs and Live Oak. Melissa DuPar. 7707 E. Live Oak Dr. —(In Favor)—My complaint is leaving Live Oak from Deep Springs even onto Newport. Almost no one stays within the yellow lines and they speed. It doesn't matter how old the children are when are crossing the street. Lynn Manzano, 7702 E. Live Oak Dr. (In Favor)—I live on the corner of Live Oak and Deep Springs on the other side of the street. When people are coming down Deep Springs to make the curve onto Live Oak they are driving in the gutter on the wrong side of the street. That is a hazard for anyone driving from the opposite direction because it could cause a head-on collision, it hasn't happed yet but it could. There is no visibility at this curve. Instead of assuming that there isn't any traffic I would appreciate it if you would actually come out there on a Friday evening at 5:00 pm and watch the amount of traffic that goes by from Deep Springs to Live Oak and then across. Rick Manzano 7702 E. Live Oak Dr. (In Favor) —The photographs you have are deceptive because the street itself is actually narrower than it appears due to your camera angle. Newport Blvd. is a very busy . street especially when people are taking their kids to school or when people are going to the cotlege. 1 have followed cars crossing from the mini-market on Newport over into Live Oak and in many cases they continue up to White Oak Dr. and turn left. Don Hoisington, 7612 E. Cedar Creek Way (Opposed) — When I first heard this I thought it was just to make it easier to jaywalk across Newport Blvd. but I guess the issue is the safety of the children and being ab(e to let the children play in the street. My concern is that this closure would leave only one entrance _ and exit for about 50 homes for emergency services. About 4 years ago we had a fire that came down near Jamboree and we actually had the Fire Dept. enter and go out through the neighborhood which made � me feel pretty good. The request is to construct a wall,to me if speed is the problem speed bumps would be the answer. If it is decided to put in a barrier or to build a wall I would like to know who will hold the legal responsibility and liability if I have another heart attack and as an act of God that the only access or an act of man or woman and safety equipment can't get in to service me, who is going to liabfe. Is it the Traffic Commission or is it these people who are requesting the street closure? Is the City of Orange going to assume that liability? You're changing the configuration of the street and limiting services to me. Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney—That would be for the Court to decide. Generally speaking a City does not owe a duty to any individual to provide emergency services. If you had a heart attack at your home and we didn't get there in time the City would not be liable, in a general sense. Tape#CTC-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. — �Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City Trarric Commission—November 8,2000 p9,g Lisa HunQerle, 7607 E. Cedar Creek Way— I understand it is a safety issue with kids and I do use this route leaving, I don't find it to be a visibility problem to make a right turn onto Newport. A lot of time we do cross that yellow line because cars are parked on the street and it's a narrow street so you do cross over the line. I don't see that we can go that fast because it is quite winding. This is a nice neighborhood and I wouldn't like to see anything installed here that would make it look dumpy, I would like the cul-se-sac to be professional looking. Matt Oberlv, 7649 E. Live Oak Dr. —The reality of all this is that a lot of people use this for convenience into the neighborhood. There are a lot of alternative ways we can provide emergency access. There are 18 kids in that 6 home area and 8 of them are under the age of 5, and you say kids don't play in cul-de- sacs that isn't true I haven't been in a neighborhood where kids don't play and in many cases that's why people buy on a cul-de-sac street so it will be safer for their kids to play. Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the request to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. � Hamid Bahadori. Mqr. Transportation Services—As far as traffic patterns go this street does not serve any original purpose. From a Traffic Engineering point of view, Tra�c Engr. Staff has no objection to the cul- de-sacing of this street, the objection to making this a cul-de-sac is from the Fire Department. When I said to you that the cul-de-sac can be designed with emergency vehicle access provision it can be done but for the large fire trucks it will most definitely create an additional source of delay. The fire trucks and ambulances will be delayed, maybe not the police cruisers and motorcycles as much, but ambulances and large fire trucks most definitely have to slow down going in either direction either going into or out of Live Oak and that will be a concern to the Fire Chief, and as you remember from discussions about speed humps, delay has always been the concern of the Fire Dept. It's not a matter of traffic or the need of the street to serve as a through traffic, the street can be into a cul-de-sac without any significant to anybody else or any other street but the design of a cul-de-sac with the emergency vehicle access provision is an option that is available to you and it most probably will be recommended against by the Fire Dept. Since that option has never been built anywhere in the City of Orange we don't know how the Fire Dept. is going to react to it,we don't even know how much of a time delay it would cause ambulances or fire trucks. Chairman Yarger—I know that when we talked about speed humps on Handy St. and the Fire Dept. did a survey, the delay time driving over speed humps was too great for ambulances and fire trucks and it may cost sorr�ebody their life and I know they are definitely against it. ACTION: Recommend that the Orange City Council approve restricting right turn movement out of Live Oak Drive onto Newport Boulevard. � COMMENTS: Vice-Chairman Fortier—I'm willing to go along with that and see how this works, if it is still a problem I would like to hear back from you to see if we can't go another step further. We like to do things one step at a time because many times we get the result we want right away. MOTION: D.Yarger SECOND: F. Petronella AYESD Unanimous Hamid �ahadori. MQr. Transaortation Services — If the Commission has any preference of the three options we presented to you we would like to have that in our report to the Council. For clarification this � decision has to be approved by the City Council and we will do our best to agendized this for the first � meeting in December, however, with the transition and the new Mayor-Elect we have to sit down with him and find out when he wants it on the Council Agenda. And all area residents would be notified of that Council meeting. "fape#CTC-20.08 of this City Tra�c Commission meeting is available for your review. � Ple�se contact the Recording Secretary at(714 744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Rec cled Pa er Y p Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City . ic Commission—November 8,2000 Pg 10 Chairman Yarger—I woutd start with Option#1 and work up the line. _ . __::. _.,.. �. � ._... M _ �, ;, . . . . . _ -. .- :... � �. s� - _ � . �z `;� � ...�.� .,'.ctt A.�'�+va ,�y.g��n3v x -.�S ' �ta,,��. a r, � _ s _ ��f�r {. Option 1; A simple guard rail placed on Live Oak Dr. between the center median and the curb return with reflectorized signing similar to this photo. This will physicalfy re�trict the right-turn movement. Estimated cost of installation is$500-$600. �. " }_= �.. 3 i , ` _ � .i. .>i 1' �;�� .{ ' I t rG ,k:' __ .,., ., � .�. � • �} �'4,'. �';' �+r .f l � .- __ ��. . � ' R f � al�`�� _ _ j i.�( �`✓�.. n-�+!i4�. - L " �.�':• y��^`s"n .� _ �'.a��xc3-^'��$c'7S .�:�'�..". ,�.i"�'?ti�:4 �s' � �I �9� .�?��'_atx".L R."'=.te• t w�W%s+�n..... . `4� .. e� ,:, . �t ,,,c��" S � .t . . y'!.a 'L,t . c ��y�.. �N x�� r� {{J ,1. �.�_ j. ."�{�� 'b'„s..._.sN�� '3 a'�� s-r�' .. .y .. _[S' ..� . �.�,,.� r ._ > ...f � Tp�,.: � aRs^ ��` �'� s�c� y. �x 1 fa1 c..� �� e.. - - a #: a r� t��bv- �-�,-„'�r�-,��.�r��F.a.r^}>'�`�'.�r�'.�"'*`�y' ��`�`�.�rr.�v�t ��.y. �.�W,.o2 y+i•� .�, . � `4'l''y'�tvtr.E)�'a�.3Go, ti3< , i-..?�'r /�` s �f a � F � -i 5 � G �y�.M ��`"�'x��.tG�,�'��,�,r..,�r-.�� ?v r�-��..�c�=�.��,�: ,�,.�� t ; ,f:: �yy��„t" �s '�'S` `KR.et,�-�`�.-�-s"J `�-,�� . � �.�.,'��y �`""�sa��"'4--t,t,�.a�t�-.��3-x``�^fi.,� .... .� , �F�`.�+�#.��., �.�-'�'� ��;..�i��-�„�„-�+�i� �' , 1';'�' �sa�,it'=x �s". � '�� '_. � s -� . .. t�,� r t i.,. s �a. ��S Eri4`§+�4 y''ti "J•-'•� 2.�Si., �`' +w f Y '�.. S`3y�/h "y t 'S Y:. `F Y ��'f Yti`-- �rY�" �Y r �. Lc �' Fe : ��t � .�� s�a�. � ��-„�i.,.� t��«� `� t-� .`a 1x- .c` ��,wi"�4'�<;*�.x � �x-�A.�. ��Sy 1,�` 'S», '� 3 � y�''.,��„"�'p r< �'t�-�.�� -�-�.". �,ry � T �r�$',�,y ti�'�`G zx +.s a;: z'��Y� '".��''��a>.n}" Y r ti �_�`'1-,r+'.7�.r �w3.�. .�'Yf=.� �i3.�i� -., S�s.��,'��.$.`c�c�,��n`�c�.i',`-�e-r-.�*��'. . ~.F�.§o.....,i�x�.�w.ir.z..a;C�'`�`��,s�'..,-.:.._ "�".`��`��ti�.#�'fi'.�,'pv�_..�_'a�`�:r.rx.r .lYr`:�,..�f-.h"'�'-�,�� Option 2: Raised curb and gutter with a center fill area of asphalt concrete with signing. This will also restricfi the right-turn movemen� in a more aestheticafly pleasing manner. This photo is of Kennymead St. and Santiago Canyon Rd. is an example of how this installation would look. The estimated cost of this installation is$5,000 to$10,000 Tape#CTC-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,.advance notice is appreciated. —� �' �Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City', c Cammission—November 8,2000 Pg.11 � �;�, ��P��, -..__:;;�= �r��:. - �s�:�� _ `��'�4��: .Z':. :2 J.-%�:t,:" :th:'�':Y`�. Option#3: Raised curb and gutter s#amped concrete and cobblestone treatment similar to the installations for Alpine, Bedford & Crest at LaVeta Ave. illustrated by this photo. This option is more in keeping with area hardscape. Estimated cost of installation is$40,000 to$45,000. Commissioner Poutsma — I think that would be smart but I think that ultimatefy we are going to have to make sure that the street sweeper can do the job they need to do. Quite often I have seen areas that have been done with just the STOP or the barriers and every time the wind blows there is trash and i would hate to see that happen. Chairman Yaryer—Maybe we should promote Option#2 and then the sweepers can work better and see if the residents can get the Council to approve that. Commissioner Poutsma — I would I�ke to amend your motion fio include Option #2 to leave it up to the residents to convince the City Council but I would hate to see Option#1 and just settle for that. � End of Consideration Items � Tape#CTG20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is availabte for your review. � Ptease contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �� Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City'�._.,,ic Commission—November 8,2000 P9 12 IV. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS A discussion by the Cifiy Traffic Commission to direct staff from TrafFic Engineering and the Police Dept. to evaluate the need and feasibility of the installation of red light violation cameras at selected intersections throughout the City. SQt. Bob Green. OPD Traffic Bureau — I have some information indicating that some cities such as Phoenix had 122 deaths related to red light violations in a year's period. Mesa, AZ had 49, Tucson had 26, Dallas 73, ' Detroit 65, these are all deaths attributed to red light violations, In looking at the City of Orange we have had a total of 5 fatal accidents in the last 6 years (since 1994) that were directly attributed to red light violations. I don't see that we have a problem of the magnitude that is mentioned in these other cities, however, it doesn't mean we don't have a red light problem. I would propose that we form a committee to review this situation and I propose it be comprised of�Police, Traffic Engineering, City Attorney and that we look over such areas as developing statistical data to support the cameras, also the type of available technology, vendors, what options and programs they have available, legal issues, contracts and things of that nature if we went into a program, moralistic issues of red light cameras have been brought up recently the intrusion on privacy and the "big brother" atmosphere that some citizens foresee in that. I'd also suggest we look into the overall cost of the program, the implementation, the actuaf maintenance of the program to see what type of labor it will consume and also what type of revenue we would get back to the city in the form of what portion of the $271 fine would actually come back to the City of Orange after everything has been taken care of and it's been processed through the Court. We need to take a really long hard look at this to see if its feasible and if it would meet our needs in the city. I would suggest that this study would probably take 5-6 months to actually review other cities, look at their programs and see what's out there and is available to us and how it will fit our needs. Chairman Yarqer—Where do we go from here, do we make any motion? Hamid Bahadori — There is no action needed by the Commission we can just receive and file Sgt. Green's report. Chairman Yarger—When do you think you can get this committee started? � SQt. Bob Green�I would prefer to start it after the holiday's. We have already begun collecting information, I have a little bit of information on technology and programs from Lockheed-Martin, I have other people who are starting to contact me referencing their programs. I'm compiling information now, but I won't really have an o p portunit y to reatl y get inv ol v e d u n t i l J a n u ary. Chairman Yarger—Approximately how many people would you say to serve on the Committee? SQt. Bob Green - I would say we would probably need myself and an officer that I would designate from the Traffic Bureau, maybe one or two, my accident investigator, a corporal to oversee that portion of it. From Traffic Engineering I would estimate one person, and if Mr. Winthers is willing to oversee as far as the legalities, and a representative from the City Manager's office. Chairman YarQer—Depending on the number of people I would like to sit on that committee as well. ACTION: Receive&File Sgt. Green's report. MOTION: D.Yarger SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: �Unanimous Tape#CTC-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � I'lease contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �■ Printed on Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting-City ,.�.,Fc Commission—November 8,2000 Pg.13 \/. ORAL PRESENTATIONS PUBLIC PARTICIPATION —At the conclusion of the meeting of items listed on this Agenda, members of the public may address the City Traffic Commission on matters not on the Agenda, that are within the subject jurisdiction of the City Tra�c Commission. ��i��i.��.��i�i.��.�i�r.�i.�i�i�i��.��.�ri�i.��,��i.�i.�i�i��.,�i,�..��i,�i.�i.wi��.�i.�i��.�-i.�i��.��.�i�i,�i��i�i.,��i,�i.�r��.��i�:�i��i.�r�i�i,��,�i,��.��.�i�i�i��.��i��i�i,��.,��i,�i,wi�i�i�i�r� � � � Open discussion of items not previously discussed on the Agenda. Time limit is three(3) minutes per speaker. � � � , � � �i�i��i��,�i�i,��,�s��i,�,��i.��.��,��i,�i.�i�i.�:��i.�r��i.��i,�i.�i�i.�i„�i�i��i.�i�:��.��,�i��.��i�i.�`.�i,�i,�i.��i.�i�i.�i��.��i,��.�.��i�i�i�ri�i.��,�i.�i�i.��i.�i.��.��,��i.�i.��i�i.��.��i,��,�i.� None this month. . VI. ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda items of the City Traffic Commission was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission at 3:55 p.m. The next scheduled meeting of the City Traffic Commission will be Wednesday—December 13, 2000. Respectfully submitted, CITY OF ORANGE Phyllis Then Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division CITY OF ORANGE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION 3OO E. CHAPMAN AVE. ORANGE CA 92866 PH: (714)744-5536 F�vc: (714)744-6961 � —MINUTES—NOVEMBER [DISK#20/THENP] Tape#CTC-20.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recycled Paper