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05-09-2001 - Minutes TC - -- � CITY OF ORANGE � CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION � � IVlinutes of a Regular Meeting: _ Mav 9, 2001 . I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call: � Present—Commissioners: D.Yarger, J.Fortier, F.Sciarra,W.Poutsma Present—Staff: R.Hohnbaum,W.Winthers,C.Glass, Sgt.J.Gomez-Whiteley, D.Allenbach, P.Then Absent—Staff: F. Petronella C. Approval of Minutes; April 11, 2001 —Approve as published by the Recording Secretary. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous � 11.. CUNSENT CALENDAR A. Request for the installation of red curb markings for the driveway servicing the apartment complex at 4625 W. Chapman Aveo Anna Briseno � 4625 W. Chapman Aveo Orange CA � � � Oral presentation is based on the written staff report;please refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request. ACTION: Approve the instatlation of red curb markings for the driveway senricing the apartment complex at 4625 W. Chapman Ave. . M�TION: D. Yarger SECOND: F. Sciarra � AYES: Unanimous Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)7445536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recvcled Paver Minutes of a Regular Meetir�y—City Tra�c Commission—May 9,2001 pg,2 B. Request for the installation of "1-Hour" time limit parking restrictions on the � north side of Wafnut Ave. for the businesses located at 501 N. Glassell St. Norm Carter 501 N. Glassell St. Orange CA 92866 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; p/ease refer to your copy. 7"here was no discussion of this request. ACTION: Approve the installation of "1-Hour" time limit parking restrictions on the north side of Wafnut Ave. for the businesses located at 501 N. Glassell St. � MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous C. Request for the installation of red curb markings for the Maple Ave. driveways that service the apartments at 173-183, 149-159 and 232-254 N. Holly St. Julia Araiza Philip Krum Carmen Gullo PO Box 10992 PO Box 2217 17220 Newhope St. Santa Ana CA Anaheim CA Fountain Valley� CA Oral presentation es based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request. ACTION: Approve the installation of red curb markings for the Maple Ave. driveways that service the apartments at 173-183, 149-159 and 232-254 N. Holly St. MOTION: D. Yarger � SEC�ND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous �'���������������� End of Consent Calendar ����������������� Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Com:nission meeting is ava�able for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appteciated. �Printed on Recvcted Paver Minutes of a Regular Meetir►y -City Traffic Commission-May 9,2001 p9,3 IIt.CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1, Request for the removal of the Neighborhood Permit Parking Program from both sides of Craig Dr. befinreen Palmyra Ave. and Roberta Dr. Richard Hess 3080 S. Craig Dr. Orange CA Oral presentation is based on the wriften staff report; p/ease refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request. ACTION: Approve the removal of the permit parking restrictions from . both sides of Craig Dr. befinreen Palmyra Ave. and Roberta Dr. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: Unanimous 2. Request for the installation of an "All-Way" STOP control device at the intersection of Shaffer St. and Chestnut Aveo Joe Reiss � 1604 N. ShafFer St. Orange CA Oral presentation is based on the w�tten staff report; please refer to your copy, Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion: Chairman Yarger— During the seven day period is there any time you went out in peak hours with a radar gun? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — We attempted to conduct a speed zone survey using a radar gun, however, traffic volumes were so light that we could not get an accurate sampling of vehicles so it would be impossible to say whether or not there was a speeding problem. Our traffic counters are designed to measure vehicular speed as well as the number of cars traveling on a street. We installed the counters in the area and recorded speed over a 24-hour period. Debra Beraholtz, 406 E. Chestnut Ave. — In favor of some solution to this problem by making this a cul-de-sac at either Glassell or Cambridge St.; or to - have right tur�n only at the end of the street, and installing speed humps in conjunction with a STOP sign at Shaffer St. and Chestnut Ave. a► Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is ava�able for your review. , � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regazd,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recvcled Paver � . Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—May 9,2001 p9,q Joe Reiss, 1604 N. Shaffer St. —In our eyes a STOP sign is a traffic calming device and will reduce vehicular speed. Trenton Ave., which is one biock south of our street and runs in an east-west direction, has the same volume and type of traffic and they have a STOP sign and we're curious how that sign came to be installed. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — We did a 24-hour count on Trenton and Shaffer in this area; Trenton Ave. services a larger area. There are several cul-de-sac streets that form "T" intersections on Trenton befinreen Cambridge and Glasseli, and there are at least finro apartment complexes on either side of Shaffer St. at Katella Ave. so these two streets service a much higher population � density than does Chestnut Ave. whose land use is single-family development. _ We counted 1,2000 vehicles per day on both Trenton and Shaffer, they do have more traffic. The 2 streets are similar in nature only in that they are classified as residential streets. Trenton has more housing either directly on the street or from the cul-de-sac streets that intersect with it and therefore they did meet the warrants for a "3-Way" STOP when the study was done. Chairman Yarger— You said that the counts you get in the study are mostly from the immediate residential area, is that correct? Dave Allenbach — We have not conducted an origin/destination study so I can't say with certainty that all the traffic we counted is generated by the residential community itsetf. We are saying that the tra�c volume is at a level that we would expect given the number of houses and the type of residential land use in the study areao It's possible that all 600 vehicles could be coming from outside the area but even if they are, the traffic volume in the study area is at expected levels. Commissioner Poutsma — When you did the speed study did you do it at 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. the typical peak hours, was fihat for a 24-hour period, the 7-day study was that consecutive? . . Dave Allenbach — The traffic volume count was conducted over a 7-day period because �concerns expressed at the March meeting about by-pass traffic, particularly on the weekend. We set the counfers out for a week long period so we could catch the weekend traffic which is not what we typically count. The speed zone survey was conducted over one 24-hour period only, and it did cover both peak hours, and after a 24-hou�period we had a large enough database so we could determine the critical or 85 percentile and median speeds. That is not to say that there are not people driving faster 34MPH but we are saying that 85% of the people driving in this area are d�iving at a speed at or below 34MPH. -.. Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Comtnission meetyng is ava�7able for your review. ` Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 m this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recvcled Pauer . Minutes of a Regular Meetir,y -City Traffic Commission—May 9,2001 p9,5 Marvbeth Doan, 312 E. Chestnut Ave. — My husband and I walk a lot and we see cars westbound on Chestnut turn southbound onto Shaffer and they turn the corner even when we are crossing the street. Roqer Hohnbaum,� Asst. City Engineer — As was mentioned earlier there are warrants established to determine whether or not a STOP sign is useful at any one location. Although some people may feel STOP signs have a tendency to slow traffic down, obviously a car stopping is much slower than a car moving through, to put a STOP sign in requires certain things and that's why we have those warrants. One of those things is the volume of traffic, you do not want to � stop cars on a through route to let a very small volume of cars enter from a side street and warrants are established to ensure against that. The other issue is that if you have low volumes on each of the streets. What might happen on a lower volume is people begin to fail to stop at the signs so even though you may have done something that is perceived at controlling the thru speeds every so often you're going to get somebody that basically does not stop and moves through with the expectation that the person entering the intersection from the other direction wifl stop and that does create a potential hazard. So for that reason that is an answer for why we do not place STOP signs at every location throughout the City, you have to consider the pros and cons of these installation based on the volume of traffic and the location. STOP signs are to primarily controt access at an intersection, and I do realize that there is sometimes a perception and certainty there is an effect of controlling speed on a street. I have heard peop{e this afternoon, however, state that there may be other ways to control speed on this street but we do have a moratorium in effect at this point to enforce those other actions. The City had previously adopted a set of inethods to try to control speed and vehicular traffic and unnecessary trips in residential areas. There is a whole palette of items that could have been uses such as speed humps, restrictions in the roadway, turning restrictions, creating a cul-de-sac if appropriate, just a variety of inethods that could be enacted depending on their appropriateness. Because of an issue that was brought about by restriction of emergency access the city placed a moratorium against installing any more of those devices, unfortunately this request was received right after that moratorium went into �ffect. The city is currently wrestling with how to slow or deter traffic from residential streets and yet provide for emergency access response throughout the city. AI Doan, 312 E. Chestnut Ave. — I've never heard that installing a STOP sign � increases a hazard on a street. Running a STOP sign is breaking the law and that is a hazard. People don't realize that the thru street has the right-of-way. Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Trnffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)7445536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recvcled Paner Minutes of a Regular Meetiny.-City Traffic Commission—May 9,2U01 pg,g Chairman �Yarger closed the public hearing and retumed the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Commissioner Sciarra — These peopie seem really adamant about having these signs installed even though we have discussed it before and have shown that the intersection doesn't meet the warrants. ACTION: Approve the installation of an "Afl Way" STOP at Chestnut Ave. and Shaffer St. MOTION: F. Sciarra � SECOND: W. Poutsma Commissioner Fortier — Although [ am very adamant about expediting traffic through the City by not putting in unwarranted STOP signs, however, t have to admit.that in this case I've learned that the STOP signs on Chestnut will not affect the traffic flow on the arterial streets, it will only affect the residents of the local streets. AYES: Unanimous 3o Request for the installation of an "All Way" STOP control device at the ` intersection of Orange St. and Rose Ave. John Estrin 622 N. Orange St. Orange CA Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion: John Estrin. 622 N. OranQe St. —Over the last few months we have witnessed an increase in traf#ic and parking from the ongoing constru�tion of the dormitory on Grand Ave. near Walnut Ave. and at Chapman University. Currently we do not � have permit parking on our block, but I think its being considered. Motorists routinely speed on Rose without no accountabiliiy and with the increased traffic that will be going eastbound from Glassell St. to Grand St. to access the dorms this will be exacerbated. Soon storm drain construction will begin on Walnut Ave. and this will close traffic between Glassell and Shaffer, this will cause Rose Ave. to be used as an altemate route. � •,, Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Comrnission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. � �Panted on R,ecvcled Paver Minutes of a Regular Meetin, �City Traffic Commission—May 9,2001 p9,7 Motorists going northbound on Orange cannot see traffic on Rose until they are nearly on top of the intersection. The portion of Rose west of Orange is not permitted parking making it difficult t-o see around cars and elementary school age pedestrians use Rose to attend school east of Glassell. A 2 Way STOP wiil no t con tro i tra ff ic on Rose, it will not keep people from traveling at a dangerously high rate of speed. � Chairman Yarqer—Where do you get this highly dangerous speed? John Estrin - People exceed the 25-35 MPH speed limit on numerous occasions. Chairman Yarger — From tooking at this map there are only 2 residential iots befinreen Glassell St. and Orange St., and 2 residential lots between Orange St. and Grand St. From your observation what does it seem like the speeds are? John Estrin — It's college students, temporary residents and people that use Rose as an alternative to Walnut. Chairman YarQer— Is the speeding oecurring on Rose or is it on Orange south of Rose. John Estrin —On Rose. Chairman Yarger—There isn't enough room to get your vehicte to that high a rate of speed. � John Estrin — These motorists drive as if they are invincible they don't have enough driving experience to understand the harm that can result from bad driving habits. Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Commissioner Sciarra—You did not obsenre any speeding in the area at all? Dave Allenbach, Transaortation Analyst— During the A.M. peak hour we had 48 vehicles for all approaches to the subject intersection and during the P.M. peak - . we had 46 vehicles. We didn't conduct a speed zone survey because there wasn't enough traffic to get an accurate sampling. Commissioner Sciarra — It's pretty hard to get your vehicle up to 40 MPH in that short amount of distance. Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Cornmission meeting is ava�7able for pour review. - � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)7445536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Psinred on Recvcled Pat�er Minutes of a Regufar Mee'it ny -City Tra�c Commission—May 9,2001 p9,g Chairman Yarger — What is the possibility of doing a 24-hour speed survey with your counters to get us a more accurate count on vehicles like we did in the other neighborhood and try to get some speed data? t know motor officers have gone out radar guns in neighborhoods where people say cars are going 50-60 MPH and they stand out there with the radar equipment and they're going 27 MPH. At 28 MPH cars look like they're going faster on some narrow residential areas then they are really going. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — Yes. We can certainly put the counters out in the area and report back to you in June.� � Chairman Yarger — I think we would be better prepared to make a decision with accurate data because we're getting conflicting informa�ion. I'd like you to leave these counters out for a 48-hour count. Commissioner Sciarra — I can understand maybe 1-2 kids driving that way in the course of a day or so but I can't see #he majority of that traffic speeding. I agree with your suggesfion. ACTION: Continue this request to the June 13th meeting, and conduct a 48-hour speed zone survey at this location. M�TION: D. Yarger SECOND: F. Sciarra � AYES: Unanimous 4. Request to waive the $400 application fee for inclusion in the neighborhood parking permit program for residential streets within the permit parking� area surrounding Chapman University; generafly� bordered by Cambridge St., Chapman Ave., Lomita Ave., Mayfair Ave. and Cypress St. Traffic Engineering Division � CITY OF ORANGE � Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request. � ACTION: Approve waiver of the $400 application fee for inclusion in the neighborhood parking permit program for residential streets within the permit parking area surrounding Chapman University. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: F. Sciarra � AYESe Unanimous •,, Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. �� Please contact the Recotding Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �P=inted on Recvcled Paver Minutes of a Regular Meetir��—City Traffic Commission—May 9,2001 Pg.9 IV.ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS None this month. � V. ORAL PRESENTATIONS None this month. VI.ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda items of the City Traffic Commission was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission at 4:40 p.m. The next regufar meeting of the City Traffic Commission will be held Wednesday — June 13, 2001. Respectfulty submitted, CITY OF ORANGE � Phyllis Then Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division CITY OF ORANGE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION 300 E.CHAPMAN AVE. � Ot2ANGE CA 92866 PH: (714)744-5536 F�►x: (714)744-5573 I�May-Minutes[CTC Disk/Thenp] - � Tape#CTC-21.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. � Please contact the Recording Secxet�ty at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �Printed on Recvcled Paver