05-09-2001 - Minutes TC - -- �
CITY OF ORANGE �
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION � �
IVlinutes of a Regular Meeting: _ Mav 9, 2001
.
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call: �
Present—Commissioners: D.Yarger, J.Fortier, F.Sciarra,W.Poutsma
Present—Staff: R.Hohnbaum,W.Winthers,C.Glass, Sgt.J.Gomez-Whiteley, D.Allenbach, P.Then
Absent—Staff: F. Petronella
C. Approval of Minutes;
April 11, 2001 —Approve as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. Sciarra
AYES: Unanimous �
11.. CUNSENT CALENDAR
A. Request for the installation of red curb markings for the driveway servicing the
apartment complex at 4625 W. Chapman Aveo
Anna Briseno
� 4625 W. Chapman Aveo
Orange CA
�
� � Oral presentation is based on the written staff report;please refer to your copy.
There was no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Approve the instatlation of red curb markings for the driveway
senricing the apartment complex at 4625 W. Chapman Ave. .
M�TION: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. Sciarra �
AYES: Unanimous
Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)7445536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
�Printed on Recvcled Paver
Minutes of a Regular Meetir�y—City Tra�c Commission—May 9,2001 pg,2
B. Request for the installation of "1-Hour" time limit parking restrictions on the
� north side of Wafnut Ave. for the businesses located at 501 N. Glassell St.
Norm Carter
501 N. Glassell St.
Orange CA 92866
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; p/ease refer to your copy.
7"here was no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Approve the installation of "1-Hour" time limit parking
restrictions on the north side of Wafnut Ave. for the businesses
located at 501 N. Glassell St. �
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. Sciarra
AYES: Unanimous
C. Request for the installation of red curb markings for the Maple Ave. driveways
that service the apartments at 173-183, 149-159 and 232-254 N. Holly St.
Julia Araiza Philip Krum Carmen Gullo
PO Box 10992 PO Box 2217 17220 Newhope St.
Santa Ana CA Anaheim CA Fountain Valley� CA
Oral presentation es based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
There was no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Approve the installation of red curb markings for the Maple
Ave. driveways that service the apartments at 173-183, 149-159
and 232-254 N. Holly St.
MOTION: D. Yarger �
SEC�ND: F. Sciarra
AYES: Unanimous
�'���������������� End of Consent Calendar �����������������
Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Com:nission meeting is ava�able for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appteciated.
�Printed on Recvcted Paver
Minutes of a Regular Meetir►y -City Traffic Commission-May 9,2001 p9,3
IIt.CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1, Request for the removal of the Neighborhood Permit Parking Program from
both sides of Craig Dr. befinreen Palmyra Ave. and Roberta Dr.
Richard Hess
3080 S. Craig Dr.
Orange CA
Oral presentation is based on the wriften staff report; p/ease refer to your copy.
There was no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Approve the removal of the permit parking restrictions from
. both sides of Craig Dr. befinreen Palmyra Ave. and Roberta Dr.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: J. Fortier
AYES: Unanimous
2. Request for the installation of an "All-Way" STOP control device at the
intersection of Shaffer St. and Chestnut Aveo
Joe Reiss �
1604 N. ShafFer St.
Orange CA
Oral presentation is based on the w�tten staff report; please refer to your copy,
Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Chairman Yarger— During the seven day period is there any time you went out in
peak hours with a radar gun?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — We attempted to conduct a speed
zone survey using a radar gun, however, traffic volumes were so light that we
could not get an accurate sampling of vehicles so it would be impossible to say
whether or not there was a speeding problem. Our traffic counters are designed
to measure vehicular speed as well as the number of cars traveling on a street.
We installed the counters in the area and recorded speed over a 24-hour period.
Debra Beraholtz, 406 E. Chestnut Ave. — In favor of some solution to this
problem by making this a cul-de-sac at either Glassell or Cambridge St.; or to
- have right tur�n only at the end of the street, and installing speed humps in
conjunction with a STOP sign at Shaffer St. and Chestnut Ave.
a► Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is ava�able for your review.
, � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regazd,advance notice is appreciated.
�Printed on Recvcled Paver � .
Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—May 9,2001 p9,q
Joe Reiss, 1604 N. Shaffer St. —In our eyes a STOP sign is a traffic calming
device and will reduce vehicular speed. Trenton Ave., which is one biock south
of our street and runs in an east-west direction, has the same volume and type of
traffic and they have a STOP sign and we're curious how that sign came to be
installed.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — We did a 24-hour count on Trenton
and Shaffer in this area; Trenton Ave. services a larger area. There are several
cul-de-sac streets that form "T" intersections on Trenton befinreen Cambridge and
Glasseli, and there are at least finro apartment complexes on either side of
Shaffer St. at Katella Ave. so these two streets service a much higher population
� density than does Chestnut Ave. whose land use is single-family development.
_ We counted 1,2000 vehicles per day on both Trenton and Shaffer, they do have
more traffic. The 2 streets are similar in nature only in that they are classified as
residential streets. Trenton has more housing either directly on the street or from
the cul-de-sac streets that intersect with it and therefore they did meet the
warrants for a "3-Way" STOP when the study was done.
Chairman Yarger— You said that the counts you get in the study are mostly from
the immediate residential area, is that correct?
Dave Allenbach — We have not conducted an origin/destination study so I can't
say with certainty that all the traffic we counted is generated by the residential
community itsetf. We are saying that the tra�c volume is at a level that we would
expect given the number of houses and the type of residential land use in the
study areao It's possible that all 600 vehicles could be coming from outside the
area but even if they are, the traffic volume in the study area is at expected
levels.
Commissioner Poutsma — When you did the speed study did you do it at 8 a.m.
and 5 p.m. the typical peak hours, was fihat for a 24-hour period, the 7-day study
was that consecutive? .
. Dave Allenbach — The traffic volume count was conducted over a 7-day period
because �concerns expressed at the March meeting about by-pass traffic,
particularly on the weekend. We set the counfers out for a week long period so
we could catch the weekend traffic which is not what we typically count. The
speed zone survey was conducted over one 24-hour period only, and it did cover
both peak hours, and after a 24-hou�period we had a large enough database so
we could determine the critical or 85 percentile and median speeds. That is not
to say that there are not people driving faster 34MPH but we are saying that 85%
of the people driving in this area are d�iving at a speed at or below 34MPH.
-.. Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Comtnission meetyng is ava�7able for your review.
` Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 m this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
�Printed on Recvcled Pauer .
Minutes of a Regular Meetir,y -City Traffic Commission—May 9,2001 p9,5
Marvbeth Doan, 312 E. Chestnut Ave. — My husband and I walk a lot and we see
cars westbound on Chestnut turn southbound onto Shaffer and they turn the
corner even when we are crossing the street.
Roqer Hohnbaum,� Asst. City Engineer — As was mentioned earlier there are
warrants established to determine whether or not a STOP sign is useful at any
one location. Although some people may feel STOP signs have a tendency to
slow traffic down, obviously a car stopping is much slower than a car moving
through, to put a STOP sign in requires certain things and that's why we have
those warrants. One of those things is the volume of traffic, you do not want to
� stop cars on a through route to let a very small volume of cars enter from a side
street and warrants are established to ensure against that. The other issue is
that if you have low volumes on each of the streets. What might happen on a
lower volume is people begin to fail to stop at the signs so even though you may
have done something that is perceived at controlling the thru speeds every so
often you're going to get somebody that basically does not stop and moves
through with the expectation that the person entering the intersection from the
other direction wifl stop and that does create a potential hazard. So for that
reason that is an answer for why we do not place STOP signs at every location
throughout the City, you have to consider the pros and cons of these installation
based on the volume of traffic and the location. STOP signs are to primarily
controt access at an intersection, and I do realize that there is sometimes a
perception and certainty there is an effect of controlling speed on a street. I have
heard peop{e this afternoon, however, state that there may be other ways to
control speed on this street but we do have a moratorium in effect at this point to
enforce those other actions.
The City had previously adopted a set of inethods to try to control speed and
vehicular traffic and unnecessary trips in residential areas. There is a whole
palette of items that could have been uses such as speed humps, restrictions in
the roadway, turning restrictions, creating a cul-de-sac if appropriate, just a
variety of inethods that could be enacted depending on their appropriateness.
Because of an issue that was brought about by restriction of emergency access
the city placed a moratorium against installing any more of those devices,
unfortunately this request was received right after that moratorium went into
�ffect. The city is currently wrestling with how to slow or deter traffic from
residential streets and yet provide for emergency access response throughout
the city.
AI Doan, 312 E. Chestnut Ave. — I've never heard that installing a STOP sign �
increases a hazard on a street. Running a STOP sign is breaking the law and
that is a hazard. People don't realize that the thru street has the right-of-way.
Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Trnffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)7445536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
�Printed on Recvcled Paner
Minutes of a Regular Meetiny.-City Traffic Commission—May 9,2U01 pg,g
Chairman �Yarger closed the public hearing and retumed the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
Commissioner Sciarra — These peopie seem really adamant about having these
signs installed even though we have discussed it before and have shown that the
intersection doesn't meet the warrants.
ACTION: Approve the installation of an "Afl Way" STOP at Chestnut Ave.
and Shaffer St.
MOTION: F. Sciarra �
SECOND: W. Poutsma
Commissioner Fortier — Although [ am very adamant about expediting traffic
through the City by not putting in unwarranted STOP signs, however, t have to
admit.that in this case I've learned that the STOP signs on Chestnut will not
affect the traffic flow on the arterial streets, it will only affect the residents of the
local streets.
AYES: Unanimous
3o Request for the installation of an "All Way" STOP control device at the `
intersection of Orange St. and Rose Ave.
John Estrin
622 N. Orange St.
Orange CA
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, p/ease refer to your copy.
Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
John Estrin. 622 N. OranQe St. —Over the last few months we have witnessed an
increase in traf#ic and parking from the ongoing constru�tion of the dormitory on
Grand Ave. near Walnut Ave. and at Chapman University. Currently we do not
� have permit parking on our block, but I think its being considered. Motorists
routinely speed on Rose without no accountabiliiy and with the increased traffic
that will be going eastbound from Glassell St. to Grand St. to access the dorms
this will be exacerbated. Soon storm drain construction will begin on Walnut Ave.
and this will close traffic between Glassell and Shaffer, this will cause Rose Ave.
to be used as an altemate route. �
•,, Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Comrnission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �
�Panted on R,ecvcled Paver
Minutes of a Regular Meetin, �City Traffic Commission—May 9,2001 p9,7
Motorists going northbound on Orange cannot see traffic on Rose until they are
nearly on top of the intersection. The portion of Rose west of Orange is not
permitted parking making it difficult t-o see around cars and elementary school
age pedestrians use Rose to attend school east of Glassell. A 2 Way STOP wiil
no t con tro i tra ff ic on Rose, it will not keep people from traveling at a dangerously
high rate of speed. �
Chairman Yarqer—Where do you get this highly dangerous speed?
John Estrin - People exceed the 25-35 MPH speed limit on numerous occasions.
Chairman Yarger — From tooking at this map there are only 2 residential iots
befinreen Glassell St. and Orange St., and 2 residential lots between Orange St.
and Grand St. From your observation what does it seem like the speeds are?
John Estrin — It's college students, temporary residents and people that use Rose
as an alternative to Walnut.
Chairman YarQer— Is the speeding oecurring on Rose or is it on Orange south of
Rose.
John Estrin —On Rose.
Chairman Yarger—There isn't enough room to get your vehicte to that high a rate
of speed. �
John Estrin — These motorists drive as if they are invincible they don't have
enough driving experience to understand the harm that can result from bad
driving habits.
Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
Commissioner Sciarra—You did not obsenre any speeding in the area at all?
Dave Allenbach, Transaortation Analyst— During the A.M. peak hour we had 48
vehicles for all approaches to the subject intersection and during the P.M. peak - .
we had 46 vehicles. We didn't conduct a speed zone survey because there
wasn't enough traffic to get an accurate sampling.
Commissioner Sciarra — It's pretty hard to get your vehicle up to 40 MPH in that
short amount of distance.
Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Cornmission meeting is ava�7able for pour review. -
� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)7445536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
�Psinred on Recvcled Pat�er
Minutes of a Regufar Mee'it ny -City Tra�c Commission—May 9,2001 p9,g
Chairman Yarger — What is the possibility of doing a 24-hour speed survey with
your counters to get us a more accurate count on vehicles like we did in the other
neighborhood and try to get some speed data? t know motor officers have gone
out radar guns in neighborhoods where people say cars are going 50-60 MPH
and they stand out there with the radar equipment and they're going 27 MPH. At
28 MPH cars look like they're going faster on some narrow residential areas then
they are really going.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — Yes. We can certainly put the
counters out in the area and report back to you in June.� �
Chairman Yarger — I think we would be better prepared to make a decision with
accurate data because we're getting conflicting informa�ion. I'd like you to leave
these counters out for a 48-hour count.
Commissioner Sciarra — I can understand maybe 1-2 kids driving that way in the
course of a day or so but I can't see #he majority of that traffic speeding. I agree
with your suggesfion.
ACTION: Continue this request to the June 13th meeting, and conduct a
48-hour speed zone survey at this location.
M�TION: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. Sciarra �
AYES: Unanimous
4. Request to waive the $400 application fee for inclusion in the neighborhood
parking permit program for residential streets within the permit parking� area
surrounding Chapman University; generafly� bordered by Cambridge St.,
Chapman Ave., Lomita Ave., Mayfair Ave. and Cypress St.
Traffic Engineering Division �
CITY OF ORANGE �
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
There was no discussion of this request.
� ACTION: Approve waiver of the $400 application fee for inclusion in the
neighborhood parking permit program for residential streets within
the permit parking area surrounding Chapman University.
MOTION: D. Yarger
SECOND: F. Sciarra �
AYESe Unanimous
•,, Tape#CTG21.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
�� Please contact the Recotding Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
�P=inted on Recvcled Paver
Minutes of a Regular Meetir��—City Traffic Commission—May 9,2001 Pg.9
IV.ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month. �
V. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this month.
VI.ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda items of the City Traffic Commission was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission
at 4:40 p.m.
The next regufar meeting of the City Traffic Commission will be held Wednesday —
June 13, 2001.
Respectfulty submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE �
Phyllis Then
Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
CITY OF ORANGE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS
TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION
300 E.CHAPMAN AVE. �
Ot2ANGE CA 92866
PH: (714)744-5536
F�►x: (714)744-5573
I�May-Minutes[CTC Disk/Thenp]
- � Tape#CTC-21.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
� Please contact the Recording Secxet�ty at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated.
�Printed on Recvcled Paver