The URL can be used to link to this page

Home My WebLink About06-27-2002 - Minutes TC CITY OF ORANGE CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: _ June 27, 2002 I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call: Present—Commissioners: D. Yarger, J. Fortier, F. Sciarra, F. Petronella, M. Burkhardt Present—Staff: R. Hohnbaum, C. Glass, Sgt. J. Burton, D. Allenbach, W. Winthers, P. Then C. Approval of Minutes: ♦ May 8, 2002—Approve as published by the Recording Secretary. MOTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: M. Burkhardt AYES: Unanimous II. CONSENT CALENDAR A. � Request for the installation of a "30 MINUTE" time limit parking zone in front of 121/125 N. Lemon St. Josephina Sixta 6420 E. Normandie Cr. Orange CA 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; p/ease refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Josephina Sixta, 121 N. Lemon St. (business) — Provides photos of her business with cars parked in front. Why is it not allowed to install the green curb? Vice-Chairman Fortier — Why would you want this curb painted, you have a parking lot directly across the street? You have at least 19 stalls behind your business so it seems there is ample parking for your facility. Josephina Sixta, 121 N. Lemon St. — Most of my business is take-out orders and a lot of Hoffman Radiator cars are parked along Lemon St. all the time, and the sign for my restaurant is very hard to see. , �,��, Tape#CTG22.05 of this City Traffic Corrunission meeting is available for your review. �. :.��,�-� . x Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. ��.! !�'Printed on Recvcled Paper � rF:��.'� J:.. �-.., tini�, .. �..;� -�:-�, y f:�:�%'� . �>;+::y ,d � _��'^*z..`_"�:�•: '>;....`:.�-.:.`'�'-:,� N?^�r<�3�l;��.�,P'�,�f�3�1 Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2Q02 Pg.2 Vice-Chairman Fortier — So basically it's the radiator shop that's causing the parking problem. Have you spoken with him; won't he use the parking lot across the street? Josephina Sixta, 121 N. Lemon St. — No, he's very difficult to work with. Commissioner Burkhardt — That site is zoned for multi-use, there is a radiator and a muffler shop with absolutely no parking for those businesses. Don Hoffman is a great guy and they perform a great job but I can see potentially your problem, but there is parking across the street. Josephina Sixta, 121 N. Lemon St. — He is always parking cars there and they can stay up to 2 weeks. It is impossible for customers to see there is a business here with cars parked out front blocking vision of my restaurant. I've been here for 6 years already. Chairman Yarqer — You said most of your customers are for carry out orders, they already know where your business is located and I'm sure they would puil up within a short distance from your business and walk in to pick up their orders. Josephina Sixta, 121 N. Lemon St. — The reason customers don't go inside is because this is a Mexican bar (Los Vascitos), and a lot of customers don't like that atmosphere. Commissioner Burkhardt—Where does your delivery trucks come? Josephina Sixta, 121 N. Lemon St. —Sometimes they park across the street. Chairman Yarqer — I'd like to recommend, since Commissioner Burkhardt knows the people at the radiator shop, rather than painting a curb maybe he would be kind enough to go talk to the owner and explain the situation and see if he can't convince him to park on the other side of the street, or utilize the public parking which is so available in that area. Josephina Sixta, 121 N. Lemon St. — It's impossible to talk to the owner of the radiator shop, I have tried. Chairman Yarqer — Maybe you and he clash a little bit but maybe Commissioner Burkhardt knows him well enough that he could talk to him. How do you feel Mark? Commissioner Burkhardt — I don't know if I can speak on behalf of her or anybody specifically, I represent the public at large: I can see both points. There are 2 operating businesses there and you have the potential for conflict. There is adequate parking in the specific area. I also understand that you are running a business that also receives deliveries. I know lot of people in the city but I don't know if I can represent any specific interest. I believe it would be the Commission's position either to make a recommendation in favor of your request or to deny it, and I don't know if any Commissioner has ever gone to speak on behalf of a proponent to advise them on a request. ��. Tape#CTC-22.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. �,�:.F� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. � �1?Printed on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 Pg. 3 Chairman Yarqer— I'm not suggesting that you talk to him on her behalf, but you could explain to him what is happening in the general area. Commissioner Burkhardt—Wouldn't that be something that staff might do? Chairman Yarger— I thought that you indicated that you knew him pretty welf, that's why I made the suggestion, if I'm wrong I apologize. Josephina Sixta, 121 N. Lemon St. — I also have outside dining and I have to take those tables inside because the radiator shop owner put a trash can next to the window. Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Vice-Chairman Fortier—That area is for multiple use and we might want to consider that other people have to use it as well, and a 30 MINUTE time limit might not be appropriate for everyone concerned. Commissioner Petronella — I agree with you and if the same cars are parked there multiple days 1 know the City of Orange has provisions for marking tires and towing vehicles away after a certain period of time. Those just have to be called in 72 hours in advance. Commissioner Burkhardt — As a business owner or as residents we don't own the parking in front of our house or in front of our businesses, it is pubfic right-of-way. I can see her point with the delivery situation The constraint on the business next door to her because they do not have adequate parking for their business, with 2 businesses operating out of the specific location on a corner of a major intersection might give some cause to give credence but I can see both points and I can concur with either decision. Vice-Chairman Fortier — I'm going to make a motion that we deny the request because of several things we have discussed here today. ACTION: Deny the request for the installation of a "30 MINUTE" time limit parking zone in front of 121/125 N. Lemon St. MOTION: J. Fortier SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: J. Fortier, F. Petronella, D. Yarger, M. Burkhardt ABSTAIN: F. Sciarra ��, Tape#CTG22.05 of this City Traffic Corrurussion meeting is available for your review. �. Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. � ��Printed on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 Pg.4 B. Request to enhance sight distance at the intersection of California St. and Collins Ave. Karen Wallace 1303 E. Jacaranda Ave. Orange CA 92867 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion: Vice-Chairman Fortier — If we increased the red curb would that sight variance be adequate so we wouldn't have to remove the tree? Dave Allenbach — Transportation Analyst — What's happening at the intersection is caused by 3 factors. The letter of request and in the accompanying photos you see a Iarge van that is legally parked at the end of the red curb, but it's within 20 ft. of the intersection. The tree in the photo is 10 ft. from the intersection, there is also a power pole with a large electrical panel mounted on it. These factors are what is causing the total sight distance problem at this location. The removal of any one of these factors would enhance the sight distance to an acceptable level, and the easiest is to extend the red curb, because it's just paint. We can, administrative(y, remove the parkway trees but we would need to discuss that with the City's arborist. It's definitely difficult to move or remove a power pole and especially one with the eleGtrical panel mounted on it. In our opinion, extending the red curb to the distance covering the second property would definifely help things and may correct the situation. If you approve this we can review this again after the red curb has been installed and if, at that time, the tree is still obstructing vision we can remove it administratively. Dan VanDeusen, 1223 E. Collins Ave. — The van in question belongs to the neighbors and they are drug dealers; there are 10-15 cars here at any one time. They have been raided twice, but that's where the cars come from, it's his customers. Chairman Yarger—As far as you're concerned your letter says we can install red curb all the way across your property line to your driveway, is that correct? � Dan VanDeusen, 1223 E. Collins Ave. —Yes it is, we can't park here anyway, they do. Commissioner Sciarra—Would you have adequate parking for your guests? Dan VanDeusen 1223 E. Collins Ave. — They can park around the corner, or in the driveway. Chairman Yarqer—We appreciate you willingness to allow us to extend this red curb into your property frontage. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — In your letter you are requesting the red curb be extended up to your driveway. Is your property line at your driveway? Because we could go easterly of your driveway so people don't park up to the driveway. ��,�. Tape#CTC-22.05 of this City Traffic Cominission meeting is available for your review. a'�x- < Please contact the Recording Secretarp at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. � ��Printed on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 Pg.5 Dan VanDeusen, 1223 E. Collins Ave. — Yes, my property ends 2-3 ft. east of the driveway and you may install red curb all the way across here if you wish. Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. ACTION: Approve the installation of additional red curb markings from California St. easterly to the end of Mr. VanDeusen's property line. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: Unanimous �� End of Consent Calendar �� III. CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1. Request for the installation of an "All-Way" STOP control device at the intersection of Hewes St. and Adobe Way. Shirley Khorey Laurie Hamburg 982 N. Sonora Cr. 1070 N. Antonio Cr. Orange CA 92869 Orange CA 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Terry Tweedt, 982 Chevenne St. —Opposed to STOP signs. Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Vice-Chairman Fortier— I live over in that area and I drive by there all the time and 1 do not see a problem there, since this request was made I have paid extra attention and t still don't see a problem. It doesn't meet warrants and STOP signs are not speed control devices, they direct flow and assign right-of-way. ACTION: Deny the installation of an "All Way" STOP control device at the intersection of Hewes St. and Adobe Way. MOTION: J. Fortier SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous x�� Tape#CTC-22.05 of tlus City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. '�� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. � �Printed on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 Pg.6 2. Request for the installation of an "All Way" STOP control device at the intersection of Hewes St. and Rancho Santiago Blvd. Shirley Khorey Laurie Hamburg 982 N. Sonora Cr. 1070 N. Antonio Cr. Orange CA 92869 Orange CA 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. There was no one in the audience to discuss this item. Chairman Yarqer—As far as the traffic signal is cancerned, I understand you might save � a little bit of money doing it with the realignment of the road, but I also remember years ago when we opened Cannon St. to tie in with Imperial Highway, that the anticipated traffic increase never materialized. Nothing is really broken out there and I don't feel we should be spending money to fix something that isn't broken, I'm opposed to a traffic signal right now. Vice Chairman Fortier — People going westbound on Rancho Santiago usually make a right turn on Hewes St. to go down to Katella or Villa Park Rd., I go this way all the time and I have no problem at all making that right turn. Hardly anybody is making a left from Rancho Santiago onto Hewes because they go down Ward and some of these other streets, which are much more convenient. I don't see too many people making a left, the only possible problem would be people going to the middle school coming up from Villa Park Rd. and making a left from Hewes St. onto Rancho Santiago Blvd. I have done that also and have never had a problem at any time of the day making that left, and i feel we don't really need a signal either. Commissioner Sciarra — I have to agree, I travel that area quite often myself and I have yet to experience a problem making a left onto Hewes from Rancho Santiago or the opposite. Chairman Yarqer— I live over in that area too and a lot of times coming back I will use Katella and make a right on Hewes and there is just not that much of a traffic problem, I have absolutely no problem making a left turn. If there is on-coming traffic there is plenty of sight distance so you can see oncoming cars so that isn't a problem either. Commissioner Burkhardt — I'm going to agree with staff on this particular issue on several points; 1) I believe that with the upcoming opening of Serrano Heights there will be a potential for increased traffic in this area, it almost meets the warrants now; and 2) because of the widening and the construction in the specific area if it is better for our city to work with the residents at any specific location regarding safety and other issues and the City is able to get what they want out of it t'm all for it. Commissioner Petronella � I also agree with staff and I think this recommendation deserves a lot of consideration. This recommendation is for the future, it almost meets the warrants now. ��,�. Tape#CTC-22.05 of this City Traffic Comxriission meeting is available for your review. �wr~ � Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744553G in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. ��,! l+Printed on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 pg, 7 Roqer Hohnbaum, Asst. Citv Enqineer— Being the staff everyone is talking about, there are reasons we are making this recommendation. As stated, we are below but nearly at the warrant rate, and we do befieve there will be an increase in traffic, Serrano being but one of the contributors. There are a number of other developments that are either occurring in the area or will occur in the area. With the project we have planned it will realign that corner while providing a dedicated left-turn pocket. There is also an existing crosswalk running north and south across Rancho Santiago paraflel to Hewes that is frequented by a number of school children, and that crosswalk is currently unprotected. For the efficiency of the turning movements, efficiency of the intersection and the safety of the pedestrians, even though it does not meet warrants today, we think we are close enough for safety reasons that we want to recommend approval of a signal. Commissioner Burkhardt — I know this doesn't meet the exact warrant now but taking into consideration the new development and child safety I think we should approve this. Chairman Yarger — You talk about the unprotected crosswalk, apparently you're talking about the one coming across Rancho Santiago for the school, what is our count of the middle school children using the crosswalk? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — I don't have that data. I'm not exactly sure when or why the crosswalk was installed there. Typically when we install a crosswalk, since they are considered to be an extension of the sidewalk, we like to have sidewalk on both sides of the street, and the west side of this street is unimproved; however, it typically is not used. During the course of our study we saw very little pedestrian activity in the area, and certainly nobody was counted crossing the street during the times we conducted our turn counts. We're not likely to be removing the crosswalk and this would give us some protection. With the roadway realignment and irnprovements to the area there may be an increase in pedestrian activity at that intersection in the future, it's hard to predict. There is a bike trail running along the east leg of Rancho Santiago from Hewes to Bond, where it becomes an on-street striped bike lane. One of our concerns with the requested "All-Way" STOP, under current conditions, traveling southbound on Hewes St. the motorists cannot see the intersection, they couldn't see the STOP sign in time and we don't think they could see a queue of cars in time to stop. With a STOP under existing conditions we are trading one accident problem for another, by increasing the number of rear-end accidents at this location. Most of the past accidents have been "run off the road" types, which should probably correct itself when the roadway alignment takes place. Given the nafure of traffic and how it's traveling through the intersection we feel the most efficient way of handling traffic would be the installation of a signal, this will keep the north-southbound traffic flowing pretty evenly. The only time it will stop is when there is traffic on Rancho Santiago, which is a minor leg. . �,��. Tape#CTC-22.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. +�.�"--` Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance nohice is appreciated. ��•� l+Printed on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 pg g When we look at a boulevard STOP the warrants are almost identical to those of a traffic signal. The idea �is that if you are going to put in a STOP on an arterial road such as Rancho Santiago, someday you plan to signalize it. Generally it takes a few years to acquire funding for a signal. When a signal is approved it is placed on our CIP list and as funding becomes available they are constructed. The advantage to signalizing now is � that as we have this realignment project and we can fold the cost of the signal construction into the project. In the instance where they don't want to put in a signal at a location then we don't install an "All-Way" STOP. Commissioner Burkhardt—Would it meet.the warrants based on safety? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — The type of accidents we have had at the intersection over the years have really not been the type of accident necessarily corrected by the installation of a traffic signal. The accident hisfory are primarily vehicles leaving the road at the curve and generalfy not at the intersection. We expect that type of accident to be corrected with the realignment. Chairman Yar_,er — Of the 3 accidents it also shows that 2 of them were DUI's, and if someone has been drinking a straight road or a curved road may not make too much difference. Commissioner Sciarra — This doesn't meet the warrants right now for a 4-Way STOP and if that is the case it would mean it would not meet the warrants for a signal either, is that correct? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst—That's correct Chairman Yarger— I'm going to break this down into two motions actually. ACTION: Deny the installation of an "All-Way" STOP control device at the intersection of Hewes St. and Rancho Santiago Blvd. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: Unanimous ACTION: Continue recommendation to install a traffic signal at the intersection of Hewes St. and Rancho Santiago Blvd. to our next meeting for further study. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: F. Sciarra � AYES: Unanimous ��?�. Tape#CTC-22.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. �.�' A Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. � ��Printed on Recvcled Pat�er Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 pg_g 3. Request for the installation of a traffic signal at the intersection of Glassell St. and Quincy Ave. Romulo Agreda 1095 N. Glassell St. Orange CA 92868 Oral presentation is based on the written statf report; p/ease refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this item. Vice-Chairman Fortier— It sounds like we're trying to make this intersection safer which is the whole idea. If it can be done without a traffic signal I'm certainly in favor of that so I think we ought to see what we can do to protect these pedestrian with these alternative steps. Commissioner Burkhardt— I concur, I believe the recommendations before us, based on the need, safety and whole overall vision of that street is that we approve this recommendation. Commissioner Sciarra— I agree, I think staff has this case in hand. ACTION: Deny the installation of a traffic signat at the subject intersection without prejudice. Approve interim modifications to the pedestrian flashers on Glassell St./Quincy Ave. and Glassell St./VVilson Ave. to initiate flashing operation when pedestrians are present. To return the item to the Traffic Commission at our September meeting. MOTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: Unanimous 4. Request for the installation of mid-block narrowings on Palmyra Ave. between Esplanade St. and Yorba St. Steve Crouch 182 S. Craig St. Orange CA 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the pubtic hearing for the following discussion: Joan Dennev, 3235 E. Palmvra — In favor. We look forward to having this as a . residential street again instead of a thoroughfare for motorists trying to avoid arterial streets while having no regard to the effect of this traffic to the area residents. ,,,��a Tape#CTG22.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. "�� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)Z44-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. : ��'! 1�'Printed on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 Pg. 10 Steve Crouch, 182 S. Craiq St — In favor. A professional traffic engineer representing the neighborhood committee. Gave background of how the item came before the Commission. 85% of the households contacted signed the petition in favor of the chokers. We feel this is an initial step to reduce traffic and think there are other things we want to look at in the future. Amv Prisco, 3728 E. Palmvra - I've lived here 1 �/2 years and I'm shocked how much the traffic has increased in that time. I'm wondering if instead of the narrowings we could have speed humps the width of the street, I've seen how effective it has been in other cities to reduce speeds. The Poss of on-street parking could have an effect on some residents who may have more than 2-3 cars. Gommissioner Burkhardt — I believe Palmyra is a secondary response street for pofice and fire, and we don't install speed humps on those streets because it causes delay to emergency vehicles. Rudv Diaz. 285 S. James St. — In favor. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — Reviewed placement of the narrowings and the loss of on-street parking at each installation. This is a 3-month trial installation so we can monitor not only the effectiveness of reducing speed but also acceptance by the area residents. We will conduct both before and after studies, and then return to the Commission and present our findings, and if the area residents are unaccepting of these devices we can remove them. Vice Chairman Fortier—Do the residents reafize that some parking will be removed? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — Yes, along with the petition we sent an aerial map highlighted where we intended the narrowings to be installed, along with a description of the pros and cons of the installation with a sketch of what they look like, so residents could get an idea before they sign the petition exactly what they are getting into. Marna Miller, 2736 E. Palmvra — I helped circulate the petition and the response was overwhelmingly supportive. The residents on the northeast corner of Palmyra/Loretta are in favor of the narrowings and they realize it is in front of their home and they signed the petition in favor. Elizabeth Calvo, 2806 E. Palmvra — Does the parking removal end at the narrowing or does it extend beyond it so the houses next to them are affected? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst— In this particular case I think the railroad right- of-way is wide enough that it probably will not affect your on-street parking, but basicaily the parking restriction runs the length of the narrowing itself, it's the only area that we just don't have enough road width to accommodate both parking and a thru lane. Roqer Hohnbaum, Asst. Citv Enqineer—While we haven't finalized the detail just yet you can tell from the drawings that we're looking at 20-30 ft. in total space, so it's really one parking space. k�:�. Tape#CTG22.05 of this City Traffic Coiiunission meeting is available for your review. �.� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. I7r �I�Printed on Recvcled Pat�er Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 Pg. 11 Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Vice Chairman Fortier— I think it's a great idea. We're always looking for ways to reduce speed. Everyone seems to have a speeding problem on their street and we know STOP signs don't work this way. I think this is a great idea to see what can be used, if this is effective, and we might be able to open a new phase for traffic calming and reducing speeds. ACTION: Approve the installation of mid-block narrowings on Palmyra Ave. between Esplanade St. and Yorba St. for a 3-month trial period outlined in the Residential Neighborhood Traffic Management Program. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: D. Yarger, J. Fortier, F. Petronella, M. Burkhardt ABSTAIN: F. Sciarra (lives within affected area) �� End of Consideration Calendar �� IV.ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS Bob Stewart, 968 Biq Skv Ln. — My concern is the flashing crosswalk at Hewes and Adobe which is a safety issue. I think it-would really help and add more safety if there was a street light at that crosswalk, it is very dark and I have seen many people almost hit in the evenings because motorists can't see the pedestrians. I would like you to consider this. I come from a neighboring city and I would like to commend your Police and Traffic staff on the way you deal with the public, it's a lot better than the city I came from. V. ORAL PRESENTATIONS None this month. �,,R, Tape#CTC-22.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. ;,�«�� Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �'! �!�'Printed on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—June 27,2002 Pg. 12 � VI. ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda items of the City Traffic Commission was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission at 4:45 p.m. The next regular meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled for Wednesday — August 14, 2002. Respectfully submitted, CITY OF ORANGE Phyllis Then Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division CITY OF ORANGE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION 300 E. CHAPMAN AVE. ORANGE CA 92866 PH: (714) 744-5536 FAx: (714) 744-5573 �June-Minutes[C:\MyDoc\Thenp] �,��;, � Tape#CTG22.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. �,>: Please contact the Recording Secretary at(714)7445536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. � ��Printed on Recvcled Paper