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HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-06-2003 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: August 6, 2003 I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call: Present — Commissioners: D. Yarger, J. Fortier, F. Sciarra, F. Petronella Present — Staff: T. Mahood, D. Allenbach, W. Winthers, C. Glass, Sgt. J. Burton, P. Then C. Approval of Minutes: June 11, 2003 ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary. MOTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: Unanimous II. CONSENT CALENDAR A. Request for the installation of time limit parking in front of La Casita Restaurant at 209 E. Lincoln Ave. Mary Cordaway 209 E. Lincoln Ave. Orange CA 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request. ACTION: Approved the installation of a 30 Minute parking zone in front of LaCasita Restaurant at 209 E. Lincoln Ave. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: Unanimous Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. O1�' Printed on Recvcled Paber Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission — August 6, 2003 Pg. 2 B. Request for the implementation of parking restrictions at the driveway serving 426 W. Fletcher Ave. Kurtis Breeding 426 W. Fletcher Ave. Orange CA 92865 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. There was no discussion of this request. ACTION: Approved the installation50 feet of red curb markings on the west side of the subject driveway. MOTION: D. Yarger SECOND: J. Fortier AYES: Unanimous C. Request for the installation of 20 feet of red curb at the intersection of Lincoln St. and Collins Ave. James Beam 3745 W. Chapman Ave. Orange CA 92868 ACTION: Approved the installation of an additional 44 feet of red curb at the subject area. End of Consent Calendar III. CONSIDERATION ITEMS Requested changes to parking restrictions in downtown Old Towne. CITY OF ORANGE Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion: Joe Schulte — 109 S. Glassell St. — In favor of increasing time limit parking. The biggest complaint of the downtown merchants is the 1-hour parking. It's difficult to enjoy the shopping experience and spend the whole day downtown when you have to move your car so often. Thank you. Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. QpPrinted on Recvcled Parser Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission — August 6, 2003 Pg. 3 Vice -Chairman Fortier — I agree, if someone goes down there to do a little shopping and stay for lunch, you're going to have to move your car a couple of times. I would like to see the parking increased to 2-hours. Commissioner Petronella — I agree and you do have to watch the time carefully so you won't get a ticket. ACTION: Approved an increase in on -street parking time limits from one hour to two hours. for The Plaza, Chapman Ave. between Lemon St. and Grand St., and Glassell St. between Almond Ave. and Maple Ave. MOTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: Unanimous 2. Request for the installation of "All -Way" STOP controls at the intersections of: a) Lincoln St. and Quincy Ave. b) Lincoln St. and Monroe PI. Lynn Carrillo 1072 N. Lincoln St. Orange CA 92867 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion: Lynn Carrillo — 1072 N. Lincoln St. — In favor of the request. My home and office face Lincoln and Quincy. Our problem is that a school is about 1-block away from us so we have a lot of school age kids outside all the time. The speeds are as high as freeway speeds on many occasions. People park awfully close to the corners and you have to edge out in order to see oncoming traffic. A 1-way STOP at Lincoln & Quincy isn't going to help at all. Vice -Chairman Fortier — It would because the red curb would provide sight clearance. Chairman Yarger — You indicated traffic is getting up to freeway speeds, and I see from Adams Ave. to Quincy Ave. is about 5 houses deep, it seems unusually short distance to gain that amount of speed. Lynn Carrillo — If you take it from Adams to Collins you can get the speeds up there. There are way too many kids who play in the front yards and you can't see them. There are other problems ongoing in this area and the Code Enforcement officers were out and they recommended installing either 4-way STOP's or speed humps to reduce speeds. Chairman Yarger — Code Enforcement officers should not be recommending installation of 4-way STOP's because STOP signs are not designed to control speed, they are used to assign right-of-way. STOP signs are not effective in reducing speeds. Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Conunission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. y riyeoPrinted on Recvcled Pager Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission — August 6, 2003 Pg. 4 Lynn Carrillo — What would you recommend for reducing speed? Chairman Yarger — I suggest we could go back out and conduct another speed zone survey in excess of 24-hours, but you know we get a speed survey results and the 90tn percentile is around 31 MPH and that's nowhere near close to freeway speeds. Vice Chairman Fortier — Kids safety is of the utmost importance to all of us. However, another part of our responsibility is to expedite traffic flow throughout the city the best we can in a safe manner. It's true that you probably have seen violations occur when nobody else is around, maybe we can get additional enforcement in the area, but STOP signs are not designed for this use. Chairman Yarger — Could we conduct another speed zone survey in the area and run it for 72 hours? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — We can put out counts and run it for a week if we need to. I would like to point out that a speed survey sample generally is based on 100 cars, we have a 1600 car sample here, so even though it was a 24-hour period if we leave the counters out for a week to get samples I doubt it will show any significantly different results. Tom Mahood, City Traffic Engineer — One of the prime precepts of taking speed measurements of this type is that you don't want it to be known that you're doing it, you want an un-biased sample. Once we've laid out the counter for that length of time it becomes obvious what we're doing and it's less successful. Lynn Carrillo — I don't know what else to do. It is a high volume of traffic. If you're telling me you can't count in a 24-hour period 1600 cars that's a high volume of traffic and there's no excessive speeds and in a residential area? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - That's a background level. Lynn Carrillo — What would you recommend? Chairman Yarger — We can request regular enforcement by the Police. This doesn't meet the warrants for a 4-way STOP sign. I even hate to bring up the idea of speed humps, I don't know if it would work because of the layout of this street. Tom Mahood, City Traffic Engineer — Not only that we need an 85th percentile of 33 MPH or 2500 cars a day. By the city's adopted standards this street does not have a speed problem. The standards are that you have to have speeds at a minimum of 33 MPH 85tn percentile speed, or have 2500 cars a day on the street. At that point we take a close look and conduct additional studies and it could lead to things such as speed humps, diverters and things like that. Your street is so far below that threshold that we really don't have any great ideas for you. The average speed on your street is 25.1 MPH. The 85t" percentile speed (which is the speed of 15% of the people driving faster) and that speed was 29.7 MPH. Typically on residential streets we find it around 31 MPH. Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. O17►�pPrinted on Recvcled Paver Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission — August 6, 2003 Pg. 5 Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Commissioner Sciarra — One of the problems we're having of course is that most all residential streets are experiencing the same problem as indicated by this lady, primarily because there are just too many cars. There's not much we can do about it and traffic is only going to increase in the future. We also found that these speeders you are talking about come from your own neighborhood because these are the people who drive in those areas and the only way that can be controlled at all is for the residents to talk to each other and of course to get police enforcement. Other than that with the volume of traffic on this street it's impossible to do anything else. ACTION: Deny installation of "All -Way" STOP controls at: a) Lincoln St. and Quincy Ave. b) Lincoln St. and Monroe Ave. Approved installation of "I -Way" STOP controls for: a) Eastbound Quincy Ave. at Lincoln St. b) Eastbound Monroe Ave. at Lincoln St. MOTION: J. Fortier SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous 3. Request for the installation of a passenger -loading zone on Pine St. adjacent to Immanuel Lutheran School located at 147 S. Pine St. Tim Duttle 160 S. Pine St. Orange CA 92866 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Yarger opened the public hearing for the following discussion: Tim Duttle —160 S. Pine St. — In favor of request. I live directly across from the entrance to the playground. The school has been changed a little bit where they have added some temporary buildings in the back and moved the gate forward so when some people want to drop off their kids they are stopped directly across the street from my house. I also have 4 driveway spaces there in our driveway and people seem to think that is a parking area or a turn -around zone, they just whip in and out of there to drop off their kids, they see an empty space and they do an illegal U-turn there. Vice Chairman Fortier — It is legal. Tim Duttle — I spoke with Officer Brent Taylor who said that on a residential street in Orange that according to the CVC that it is illegal to make a U-turn in a residential street that is less than so many square feet and Pine St. meets that requirement. People make high speed U-turns and they're talking on their cell phones and they're going above the Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. OPrinted on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission — August 6, 2003 pg. 6 25 MPH speed limit and there are kids walking back and forth across the street, which is another issue completely. People park on the west side of the street and walk their kids across to the school, they double park and the congestion is awful. I also request they post 'No U-Turns' on that street whether it's illegal or not make it illegal because it is a problem. People don't care if they're legally parked or not because they are only there 5 minutes. This problem is not restricted to school days; it goes on Saturday and Sunday's too. There are special events at the church on the weekends and the same thing happens all week long. Chairman Yarger — There are some people here from both the school and church and maybe they can get the word out to the parents or getting a letter out asking them to be more considerate to the neighborhood. That would be a start. Monique Naverrete — 184 S. Pine St. — Opposed to request. The parking on Pine St. has significantly increased following the installation of the temporary buildings in the summer of 2002. The congestion is bad. I think the marked parking tees will cause more congestion because the parents will wait in the street until.a space becomes open. These parents are in a hurry and they block all the driveways, so I honestly don't know if they will follow the use of parking tees. In Old Towne Orange there are so many different rules that all the residents have to follow that it's an eyesore. I don't want the street marked up red, white and yellow. For the loading zone I read through some of the codes it is code 17.34.110 "Parking Area Dimensions" in order for them to have the curbside loading. Wherever curbside -loading area is required the width of the affected drive aisle shall be increased by 10 feet to allow traffic to circulate around. I don't know where they're going to get 10 feet because they have no room whatsoever. I think that's why the residents are so frustrated, Immanuel Lutheran is a church, a daycare provider, an elementary school and a junior high school and we can't figure out where their parking is. There is a small parking lot on the east side of the building but it seems like it has 5 stalls and it looks like the professional building behind that occupies the rest of the lot. I think the residents are upset because they operate 4 different types of businesses and they are taking up the entire street for parking and creating all this congestion. This same thing occurs on Sunday during church services and the congregation uses the entire street and 100% of the parking lot on the west side. Rick Fox — 275 S. Glassell St. — Opposed to request. I am the architect employed by the church to design the specific plan that currently under review by the City. We don't feel we have had enough time to sufficiently understand and integrate these recommendations into the specific plan. The Traffic Dept. has probably seen the specific plan and it seems to me that these measures might be premature in that they may not dovetail with the recommendations that might become part of the specific plan. We have prepared a traffic study as part of the installation of the modular trailers in March 2000. Chairman Yarger — How much time are you talking about? Rick Fox — We understand that the comments are imminent to be received back on the specific plan previously submitted. It may take us 30-60 days to evaluate the comments from all of the staff in terms of when and how we can integrate that with what we're trying to propose. Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Conunission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. T0NPrinted on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission — August 6, 2003 Pg. 7 Vice Chairman Fortier — Does your plan address these people's concerns? Rick Fox — There is a 25 stall off-street parking lot on Chapman adjacent to the church building. Those 25 stalls are, by code, enough to meet the requirement for the 6- classroom building, the employees of the church and the daycare facility. So by Planning Department ordinance we have met the onsite parking requirement for our current traffic ratio. The 25 stalls are ours even though it looks like they are part of the office building. Our plans to expand would not necessarily increase the parking demand because the modular units are only intended to be temporary while we propose a new building that is to be located on the site. The 3rd answer is that in addition to having the off-street parking we also have projections and forecasting on the growth of the student population to see what effect that could have. We haven't developed a detailed circulation plan at this point as part of our specific plan because we want to put forth our traffic study, which gives some data for the Traffic Engineering Dept. data to work with in terms of understanding our proposal. We don't have specific recommendations in our plan at this time that is as detailed as what we have here. Chairman Yarger — I'm going to say something and please take it in the spirit intended because I'm not trying to throw a rock from one street to the next. St. John's has implemented a very good program monitored by the school for dropping off and picking up the children, which has not caused any traffic problems in the neighborhood. Have you looked into any type of program like that to suggest to the school that they could implement and reduce the neighborhood problem? Steve Amort — Immanuel School Board Acting Chairman — We are opposed to the request. We have an informal pick-up and drop-off zone now. About half way through the school year our principal left, he started a formal loading zone with cones and signs which he would set up in the morning about 50 ft. apart. On an average he would open about 15 doors a day letting kids out. About 1/3 of our kids 8 thru Kindergarten have to be signed in, so the parents have to park and physically walk the children into school and sign them in. According to my wife the manned zone really worked great and we're going to continue that when school begins in a couple of weeks. The school understands that we need to make some changes but we want to be a little more involved in the process and I was really shocked when we got the letter proposing to put this loading zone in that we didn't ask for, and I really feel that if the Commission yields to one voice and commercializes that street it is a no -win situation. The other problem would be that I think you would be yielding to a few perpetrators and we know there is a problem, there are certain parents that double park, I've seen them do it and it's the same mini -vans. Our principal has notified them and we've done everything we can but there's always going to be those people who do that. I understand Tim's concern about the U-turns but they are legal, it is also legal to pull up in front of his driveway with the motor running and have a child get out and walk across the street. Vice Chairman Fortier — I'm hearing that most of the people don't want the plan that's been presented today. What are the chances of Tim, Monique, Rick and you working together to solve this problem on your own and keep each other informed and be satisfied with your own efforts? Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. 0hrinted on Recvcled Pager Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission — August 6, 2003 Pg. 8 Steve Amort — Yes it's possible we could work together. My hope was that Tim or the other neighbors would come to us formally, rather than scream at the parents, and draft a letter indicating their concerns we'll be happy to set up a meeting. Commissioner Petronella — Why can't you be stronger with the parents that you notice are violating the rules? You're controlling their attendance so it seems to me you could have stronger measures on your part rather than just accepting their bad behavior. Steve Amort — You're right we do need stronger enforcement. Commissioner Petronella — It seems to me you have the leverage, the kids don't have to attend there. Steve Amort — It would be tough to kick someone out of school because their mom doesn't know how to park. Our mission is to bring as many kids as we can to a Christian education. I think we can soften the problem, but I think there is always going to be someone that is going to make a U-turn in Tim's driveway because it's legal. Chairman Yarger — Do you have a meeting with the parents periodically? Steve Amort — Yes we do. Chairman Yarger — I think that would be a really good time to sit down and talk seriously to them about the double parking, driving up into Tim's driveway. They probably wouldn't want somebody doing that at their home. Have a heart to heart talk with them. Vice Chairman Fortier — The safety issue. If someone is doing U-turns while kids are around that isn't safe at all. Chairman Yarger — If they're true brothers and sisters in Christ with you then they will listen to you. Commissioner Sciarra — The school needs to monitor that section of Pine St. during school hours. You'll need someone to physically be there to monitor and enforce these rules for mutual benefit of the residents and the school. Steve Amort — We have a mandatorysafety meeting with every school parent and I know our principal touches on parking and traffic safety. It is a hot topic and we do need to get a better handle on it. Angela Santivanez — 172 S. Pine St. — Opposed to request. I'm across from the building zone we're talking about. I do feel there is additional traffic on Pine St. I 'think the suggestions made by the Commission are good and have a good chance of working. If someone is out there enforcing the parking and traffic it will improve the situation a lot. I haven't experienced .a lot of people blocking or making U-turns in my driveway. Traffic is really only heavy during the morning drop-off and afternoon pick-up times, otherwise it's a regular residential street. Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. CoPrinted on Recvcled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission — August 6, 2003 Pg.-9 Monique Navarrete — 184 S. Pine St. — If the parking tees are installed will the school be able to use them to satisfy their required parking in the future? Chairman Yarger — No, that is public parking. Chairman Yarger closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and/or a motion. Chairman Yarger — I suggest you table this for 60 days and let the neighborhood and school get together. They're going to have meetings with parents, I suggest they sit down and have a real strong meeting with them and explain what's going on in the neighborhood and ask them to try to abide by the school's rules. Vice Chairman Fortier - I would like to add that the school pursue a loading policy such as the one in use at St. John's or another school that has been successful. As an ex - school principal I know that you've got to be out there every day because it's amazing what those parents will do. You need someone out there that tells them, "No, you're not permitted to stop here, you have to move on." Once the enforcement is there the parents will come on board with you and make it work efficiently. If it doesn't work you can always come back before us. ACTION: Denied the installation of the following: a) 110 ft. white passenger loading zone in front of 147 S. Pine St. b) Marked parking stalls on both sides of Pine St. between Chapman Ave. and Almond Ave. (parking tees) c) Red curb markings where needed at driveways and at the existing STOP signs. Approved recommendation that the parents, school administration and neighborhood residents meet and work together to solve their problems. MOTION: J. Fortier SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous End of Consideration Calendar MADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS None this month. �;rrr Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. 0hrinted on Recvcled Pager Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission - August 6, 2003 Pg. 10 V. ORAL PRESENTATIONS Vice Chairman Fortier presented a special "Certificate of Appreciation" to Dick Yarger upon his retirement from the City Traffic Commission after 25 years of dedicated service. VI. ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda items the City Traffic Commission meeting was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission at 7:00 p.m. The next regular meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled: 5:30 P.M. Wednesday — September 17, 2003 Respectfully submitted, CITY OF ORANGE Phyllis Then Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division CITY OF ORANGE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION 300 E. CHAPMAN AVE. ORANGE CA 92866 PH: (714) 744-5536 FAX: (714) 744-5573 07� August 2003 [C:\MyDoc\Thenp\Traffic Commission\2003 Minutes] Tape #CTC-23.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. O11' Printed on Recvcled Paper