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04-14-2004 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: April 14, 2004 Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.  March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes] Printed on Recycled Paper I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call Present – Commissioners: J. Fortier, F. Sciarra, F. Petronella, J. Beil, N. Lall Present – Staff: T. Mahood, D. Allenbach, C. Glass, P. Then Absent - Staff: W. Winthers, Sgt. J. Burton D. Approval of Minutes March 10, 2004 ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary. MOTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: F. Petronella AYES: Unanimous II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS None this meeting. III. CONSENT CALENDAR There were no consent items this month. Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 2 Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.  March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes] Printed on Recycled Paper IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1. Request to add the residences of 171, 177 & 185 N. Cypress Street to the Neighborhood Permit Parking Program (Chapman University Area). Mario Alvarado 171 N. Cypress Street Orange CA 92866 The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Fortier opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Mario Alvarado, 171 N. Cypress St. – In favor of permits. This is an older neighborhood and the driveways that serve the homes are rather narrow and if anyone is parked all the way to the approach then you can’t get in and out safely. The University students really park this neighborhood quite heavily and we could really use some help. Chairman Fortier closed the public hearing and returned the issue to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Chairman Fortier – I noticed that those driveways are very narrow and if anyone parks at all into their driveway you really can’t get in there and I know its being abused by the students because that’s how they park. ACTION: Approved the request to include the residences of 171, 177 & 185 N. Cypress Street into the Neighborhood Permit Parking Program (Chapman University Area). MOTION: F. Petronella SECOND: J. Beil AYES: Unanimous 2. Request for the installation of an “All-Way” STOP control at the intersection of Shaffer Street and Sycamore Avenue. Curtis Bingham 506 E. Jefferson Avenue Orange CA 92866 The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 3 Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.  March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes] Printed on Recycled Paper Chairman Fortier – Did I hear you say the speed and volumes over the last 10 years has gone down and the volume has gone down? Dave Allenbach, Asst. Transportation Analyst – The volume has remained nominally the same but the speed has gone down, we feel that it may be the result of recent roadwork on this street. We put in two concrete cross -gutters, the first one is at the subject intersection and the second one is at Jefferson Avenue crossing Shaffer Street. The cross-gutter at Sycamore Avenue happens to be substantial and in a sense is acting, in our opinion, somewhat like a speed hump and is slowing traffic. We saw several vehicles slowing down at the intersection while we were doing our speed survey. Chairman Fortier – How long have those been in? Dave Allenbach, Asst. Transportation Analyst – I would say no more than 60 days. Chairman Fortier opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Kevin Pullan, 409 N. Shaffer St. – I live at the corner of Shaffer and Sycamore. We’ve only been there 2 months now but there has been more than speed it’s the safety problem at that corner. We’re in favor of putting in a 4 -Way STOP mostly for safety purposes. If you’re coming either east or west on Sycamore there is a little rise there and you can’t see down Shaffer at all very well so the reason the accidents have not occurred very other there are because you can’t see very well as it is but when you decide to go you better really be ready to go. It’s confusing to me there are 4-Way STOP’s all around this corner. There’s one at Harwood/Shaffer, Harwood/Pine, Shaffer/Pine, Center/Pine, Sycamore/Center is only a 3-Way STOP and then you continue on up to Walnut/Center and there is a 4-Way STOP, Shaffer/Walnut is a 4-Way STOP. People pull up to that corner and stop when they don’t need to stop which is confusing. Phyllis Capestro, 522 E. Sycamore Ave. – In favor of the STOP sign. I walk across this intersection all the time and it’s very dangerous going across Shaffer St. because you can’t see the oncoming traffic because of the parked cars. You can’t just walk out across the street, you really have to watch for cars on Shaffer Street. Peter Grossnbacher, 482 N. Shaffer St . – In favor of the STOP sign. I’m one house away from Walnut and I hear the cars racing down towards Sycamore. There are people who are driving on Sycamore and they run their STOP signs. Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 4 Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.  March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes] Printed on Recycled Paper Curt Bingham, 506 E. Jefferson Ave. – I initiated a similar request for a STOP sign back in 1995 and at that time the Commission decided to approve a DIP sign. I think your study results are incorrect. If someone runs a STOP sign from Sycamore at least with a STOP the person on Shaffer won’t get hit because he will be stopped at the intersection. Chairman Fortier closed the public hearing and returned the issue to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Vice Chairman Sciarra – I visited the area and I don’t know if it was the time I was there, but I travel that area quite a bit anyway, I just don’t see the traffic volume there at all; in the mornings, afternoons or evenings, I just don’t see the cars. Commissioner Petronella – I have the same observation. I checked out this location at different times of the day, including the evening and I’m not seein g these volumes either. People who run STOP signs are violating the STOP sign, another sign doesn’t keep them from running a STOP sign so that logic doesn’t apply. You just don’t have the statistics here to justify a STOP sign. Chairman Fortier – I also went out there and sat at different times. I heard someone say it’s confusing because some people think that it’s a STOP sign and it’s not. Commissioner Beil – I have observed the same thing I both drive and walk through there quite often and I notice the final paving was just completed a few weeks ago. It has been my observation that the roadway is a lot smoother than it used to be, but I was shocked at how slow people were driving on that street, I don’t know why but I also think people are slowing down because they are thinking that their might be a 4-Way STOP there. I heard some comments that people are actually stopping, thinking they were supposed to stop there. That’s actually good, that’s slowing traffic down. I think there are some opportunit ies that we could also consider to enhance safety at that intersection, such as putting in a ‘CROSS TRAFFIC DOES NOT STOP’ sign on the Sycamore STOP signs, if there really is a sight distance problem another way to enhance safety for all vehicles would be to look at standardizing that intersection to the current standard for red curbs, so we’ve done everything we can to maximize sight distance. Chairman Fortier – Some people don’t realize that STOP signs are not designed to control speed, I know you think they do but they are there to control traffic flow, not speed. One of our jobs is to safely move traffic through the City and that’s why we have certain specifications for what constitutes having STOP signs, traffic signals, left-turn arrows, and that is volume of traffic and speed. The survey shows the speed has reduced and the traffic volume is about the same and there have been no reported accidents. I think the confusion could be Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 5 Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.  March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes] Printed on Recycled Paper mitigated with the CROSS TRAFFIC DOES NOT STOP signs, we have installed them elsewhere and they have been very successful. Commissioner Lall – I think it’s important to note that adding additional STOP signs is going to increase noise in that neighborhood. Dave Allenbach, Asst. Transportation Analyst – The residents within a 2-house radius of the intersection were notified and as part of that notification the possibility of installing red curb is noted in that letter. We would normally put in about 30 feet of red curb at an intersection and we should retrofit the STOP sign on the southwest corner of the intersection which does not have red curb right now. If you wish we could also install 30 feet of red curb for each of the approach legs on Shaffer St. which would provide some measure of sight distance. ACTION: Denied the request for the installation of an “All-Way” STOP control at the intersection Shaffer Street and Sycamore Avenue. Approved the implementation of the following mitigation measures: 1. Install ‘CROSS TRAFFIC DOES NOT STOP’ signs below the existing STOP signs on Sycamore Avenue at Shaffer Street. 2. Installation of 30 feet of red curb markings on each leg of the intersection to enhance visibility of oncoming traffic to all motorists. MOTION: F. Sciarra SECOND: N. Lall AYES: Unanimous 3. Request for the installation of a STOP control device at the intersection of Hoover Avenue and Sacramento Street/Jodi Street. Karin Jackman 1208 N. Sacramento Street Orange CA 92867 The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Fortier opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Chairman Fortier – I understand the applicant called and wished to withdraw the request. Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 6 Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.  March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes] Printed on Recycled Paper Dave Allenbach – Yes, she called Monday requesting the withdrawal of the request. However, at that time the Agendas had been posted and gone out so we could not legally remove the request. Chairman Fortier – Since she asked to have it removed couldn’t we just deny the request? Dave Allenbach – Yes you can always vote to deny a request or to ma ke your own recommendation. The intersection is a 3 -leg intersection and it is uncontrolled. My understanding of the Vehicle Code is that motorists on the terminating leg is required to stop when they are entering Sacramento from Hoover. So putting in a One-Way STOP here is basically redundant. The intersection just barely met the volume warrant for a 1 -Way STOP so there hasn’t been a substantial problem in the past. Commissioner Lall – I don’t see the need for the STOP sign and I am going to recommend that we deny it. ACTION: Denied the installation of a “One-Way” STOP control on Hoover Ave. at Sacramento St./Jodi St. MOTION: N. Lall SECOND: F. Sciarra AYES: Unanimous  End of Consideration Calendar  V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS None this month. Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 7 Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.  March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes] Printed on Recycled Paper VI. ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today’s Agenda items the City Traffic Commission meeting was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission at 6:15 p.m. The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled: 5:30 P.M. Wednesday – May 12, 2004 Respectfully submitted, CITY OF ORANGE Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division pthen@cityoforange.org CITY OF ORANGE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION 300 E. CHAPMAN AVE. ORANGE CA 92866 PH: (714) 744-5536 FAX: (714) 744-5573