04-14-2004 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: April 14, 2004
Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present – Commissioners: J. Fortier, F. Sciarra, F. Petronella, J. Beil, N. Lall
Present – Staff: T. Mahood, D. Allenbach, C. Glass, P. Then
Absent - Staff: W. Winthers, Sgt. J. Burton
D. Approval of Minutes
March 10, 2004
ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION: F. Sciarra
SECOND: F. Petronella
AYES: Unanimous
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this meeting.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
There were no consent items this month.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 2
Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request to add the residences of 171, 177 & 185 N. Cypress Street to the
Neighborhood Permit Parking Program (Chapman University Area).
Mario Alvarado
171 N. Cypress Street
Orange CA 92866
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy. Chairman Fortier opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Mario Alvarado, 171 N. Cypress St. – In favor of permits. This is an older
neighborhood and the driveways that serve the homes are rather narrow and if
anyone is parked all the way to the approach then you can’t get in and out safely.
The University students really park this neighborhood quite heavily and we could
really use some help.
Chairman Fortier closed the public hearing and returned the issue to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Fortier – I noticed that those driveways are very narrow and if anyone
parks at all into their driveway you really can’t get in there and I know its being
abused by the students because that’s how they park.
ACTION: Approved the request to include the residences of 171, 177 & 185
N. Cypress Street into the Neighborhood Permit Parking Program
(Chapman University Area).
MOTION: F. Petronella
SECOND: J. Beil
AYES: Unanimous
2. Request for the installation of an “All-Way” STOP control at the intersection of
Shaffer Street and Sycamore Avenue.
Curtis Bingham
506 E. Jefferson Avenue
Orange CA 92866
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 3
Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes]
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Chairman Fortier – Did I hear you say the speed and volumes over the last 10
years has gone down and the volume has gone down?
Dave Allenbach, Asst. Transportation Analyst – The volume has remained
nominally the same but the speed has gone down, we feel that it may be the
result of recent roadwork on this street. We put in two concrete cross -gutters,
the first one is at the subject intersection and the second one is at Jefferson
Avenue crossing Shaffer Street. The cross-gutter at Sycamore Avenue happens
to be substantial and in a sense is acting, in our opinion, somewhat like a speed
hump and is slowing traffic. We saw several vehicles slowing down at the
intersection while we were doing our speed survey.
Chairman Fortier – How long have those been in?
Dave Allenbach, Asst. Transportation Analyst – I would say no more than 60
days.
Chairman Fortier opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Kevin Pullan, 409 N. Shaffer St. – I live at the corner of Shaffer and Sycamore.
We’ve only been there 2 months now but there has been more than speed it’s
the safety problem at that corner. We’re in favor of putting in a 4 -Way STOP
mostly for safety purposes. If you’re coming either east or west on Sycamore
there is a little rise there and you can’t see down Shaffer at all very well so the
reason the accidents have not occurred very other there are because you can’t
see very well as it is but when you decide to go you better really be ready to go.
It’s confusing to me there are 4-Way STOP’s all around this corner. There’s one
at Harwood/Shaffer, Harwood/Pine, Shaffer/Pine, Center/Pine, Sycamore/Center
is only a 3-Way STOP and then you continue on up to Walnut/Center and there
is a 4-Way STOP, Shaffer/Walnut is a 4-Way STOP. People pull up to that
corner and stop when they don’t need to stop which is confusing.
Phyllis Capestro, 522 E. Sycamore Ave. – In favor of the STOP sign. I walk
across this intersection all the time and it’s very dangerous going across Shaffer
St. because you can’t see the oncoming traffic because of the parked cars. You
can’t just walk out across the street, you really have to watch for cars on Shaffer
Street.
Peter Grossnbacher, 482 N. Shaffer St . – In favor of the STOP sign. I’m one
house away from Walnut and I hear the cars racing down towards Sycamore.
There are people who are driving on Sycamore and they run their STOP signs.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 4
Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes]
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Curt Bingham, 506 E. Jefferson Ave. – I initiated a similar request for a STOP
sign back in 1995 and at that time the Commission decided to approve a DIP
sign. I think your study results are incorrect. If someone runs a STOP sign from
Sycamore at least with a STOP the person on Shaffer won’t get hit because he
will be stopped at the intersection.
Chairman Fortier closed the public hearing and returned the issue to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
Vice Chairman Sciarra – I visited the area and I don’t know if it was the time I
was there, but I travel that area quite a bit anyway, I just don’t see the traffic
volume there at all; in the mornings, afternoons or evenings, I just don’t see the
cars.
Commissioner Petronella – I have the same observation. I checked out this
location at different times of the day, including the evening and I’m not seein g
these volumes either. People who run STOP signs are violating the STOP sign,
another sign doesn’t keep them from running a STOP sign so that logic doesn’t
apply. You just don’t have the statistics here to justify a STOP sign.
Chairman Fortier – I also went out there and sat at different times. I heard
someone say it’s confusing because some people think that it’s a STOP sign and
it’s not.
Commissioner Beil – I have observed the same thing I both drive and walk
through there quite often and I notice the final paving was just completed a few
weeks ago. It has been my observation that the roadway is a lot smoother than it
used to be, but I was shocked at how slow people were driving on that street, I
don’t know why but I also think people are slowing down because they are
thinking that their might be a 4-Way STOP there. I heard some comments that
people are actually stopping, thinking they were supposed to stop there. That’s
actually good, that’s slowing traffic down. I think there are some opportunit ies
that we could also consider to enhance safety at that intersection, such as putting
in a ‘CROSS TRAFFIC DOES NOT STOP’ sign on the Sycamore STOP signs, if there
really is a sight distance problem another way to enhance safety for all vehicles
would be to look at standardizing that intersection to the current standard for red
curbs, so we’ve done everything we can to maximize sight distance.
Chairman Fortier – Some people don’t realize that STOP signs are not designed
to control speed, I know you think they do but they are there to control traffic flow,
not speed. One of our jobs is to safely move traffic through the City and that’s
why we have certain specifications for what constitutes having STOP signs,
traffic signals, left-turn arrows, and that is volume of traffic and speed. The
survey shows the speed has reduced and the traffic volume is about the same
and there have been no reported accidents. I think the confusion could be
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 5
Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
March [N:/Traffic/CTC/2004 Minutes]
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mitigated with the CROSS TRAFFIC DOES NOT STOP signs, we have installed them
elsewhere and they have been very successful.
Commissioner Lall – I think it’s important to note that adding additional STOP
signs is going to increase noise in that neighborhood.
Dave Allenbach, Asst. Transportation Analyst – The residents within a 2-house
radius of the intersection were notified and as part of that notification the
possibility of installing red curb is noted in that letter. We would normally put in
about 30 feet of red curb at an intersection and we should retrofit the STOP sign
on the southwest corner of the intersection which does not have red curb right
now. If you wish we could also install 30 feet of red curb for each of the
approach legs on Shaffer St. which would provide some measure of sight
distance.
ACTION: Denied the request for the installation of an “All-Way” STOP
control at the intersection Shaffer Street and Sycamore Avenue.
Approved the implementation of the following mitigation measures:
1. Install ‘CROSS TRAFFIC DOES NOT STOP’ signs below the existing
STOP signs on Sycamore Avenue at Shaffer Street.
2. Installation of 30 feet of red curb markings on each leg of the
intersection to enhance visibility of oncoming traffic to all
motorists.
MOTION: F. Sciarra
SECOND: N. Lall
AYES: Unanimous
3. Request for the installation of a STOP control device at the intersection of
Hoover Avenue and Sacramento Street/Jodi Street.
Karin Jackman
1208 N. Sacramento Street
Orange CA 92867
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy. Chairman Fortier opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Chairman Fortier – I understand the applicant called and wished to withdraw the
request.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 6
Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Dave Allenbach – Yes, she called Monday requesting the withdrawal of the
request. However, at that time the Agendas had been posted and gone out so
we could not legally remove the request.
Chairman Fortier – Since she asked to have it removed couldn’t we just deny the
request?
Dave Allenbach – Yes you can always vote to deny a request or to ma ke your
own recommendation. The intersection is a 3 -leg intersection and it is
uncontrolled. My understanding of the Vehicle Code is that motorists on the
terminating leg is required to stop when they are entering Sacramento from
Hoover. So putting in a One-Way STOP here is basically redundant. The
intersection just barely met the volume warrant for a 1 -Way STOP so there hasn’t
been a substantial problem in the past.
Commissioner Lall – I don’t see the need for the STOP sign and I am going to
recommend that we deny it.
ACTION: Denied the installation of a “One-Way” STOP control on Hoover
Ave. at Sacramento St./Jodi St.
MOTION: N. Lall
SECOND: F. Sciarra
AYES: Unanimous
End of Consideration Calendar
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – April 14, 2004 Pg. 7
Tape #CTC-24.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today’s Agenda items the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission
at 6:15 p.m.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday – May 12, 2004
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
pthen@cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS
TRAFFIC ENGINEERING DIVISION
300 E. CHAPMAN AVE.
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744-5536
FAX: (714) 744-5573