HomeMy WebLinkAbout12-12-2007 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: December 12, 2007
Tape #CTC-27.09 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present – Commissioners: J. Beil, W. King, J. Pyne
Absent - Commissioners: L. Dick, N. Lall
Present – Staff: A. Farahani, D. Allenbach, W. Winthers, Sgt. D. Adams
Absent - Staff: P. Then
C. Approval of Minutes
November 14, 2007
ACTION: Approved minutes as published by Recording Secretary with the
correction that Commissioner W. King was present at the
November meeting.
MOTION: W. King
SECOND: J. Pyne
AYES: Unanimous
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this meeting.
III. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
Development of criteria for handicapped parking requests within the
public road right-of-ways.
Amir Farahani, Acting City Traffic Engineer – The City has never had any
guidelines for staff review for handicapped parking spaces. Recently as a result of
opposition to one of the installation of a handicap space on Laurel Dr., staff was
directed to develop guidelines. We brought a draft copy of the guidelines for your
review, discussions and input, and so we might answer any questions you might
have requested to continue Consideration Item #2 to the February 2008 meeting,
but since the notifications have gone out staff recommends the item be heard and
any actions on that the discussions of the Commission and any legal assistance
we can get from our City Attorney.
November ‘07 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2007 Minutes]
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – November 14, 2007 Pg. 2
IV. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Request for the installation of “NO PARKING ANYTIME” restrictions
between the two driveways on Parker St. serving the business complex at 756 W.
Town & Country Rd.
James Beam
Beam & Associates
10 Plaza Square, #B
Orange CA 92866
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy. There was no discussion of this item.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – I would recommend the Commission
continue this item due to lack of adequate notice. I realize the only person
noticed was the applicant who is one individual within a larger business complex
and I think it’s appropriate to have the entire complex noticed, whether it be
through the property manager or individually. I think we can do it through the
property manager and let them distribute the notices. I would ask that the
Commission entertain a continuance until the February meeting so further notice
can be provided.
Chairman Beil – Would that notification go to a reasonable amount of businesses
in that complex and across the street?
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – Yes, I’ll work on that with staff. I think if
we can determine who the property managers are of those major complexes right
there they could probably do it just by notifying them and allowing them to notify
the rest of their tenants if they deem it necessary, as opposed to us trying to notify
every single business.
ACTION: Continued to the February 13, 2008 meeting.
MOTION: J. Beil
SECOND: J. Pyne
AYES: Unanimous
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
Tape #CTC-27.09 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
November ‘07 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2007 Minutes]
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – November 14, 2007 Pg. 3
V. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the installation of protected left-turn phasing at the
intersection of Batavia St. at Taft Ave.
Steve Thompson
1465 N. Batavia St.
Orange CA 92867
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy. There were no speakers on this item.
Chairman Beil – After reading the report I went out to the location and observing
the situation driving that left-turn movement, the sight distance is pretty horrible
for that left turn, particularly in the p.m. peak period. What I experienced going
through that was the fact that it looked like I was clear, I was the front car to
make the left turn on the green and here comes a freight truck flying through the
green, you have to goose it fairly quickly when you see that thing coming around
that corner. I see it as an issue where it does need protected green turn.
I started also thinking about the City’s policy or direction on
protected/permissive left turns. I don’t think this would be a good intersection
for protected/permissive left turns. I know we occasionally get left turn phasing
requests and we’re going to be getting more in the future. In a future meeting I’d
like to agendized a report on what we’re going to d0 as far as consideration of
protected/permissive left turn phases.
ACTION: Approved the request to install protected left-turn
phasing at the intersection of Batavia St. and Taft Ave., and
forward to the City Council.
MOTION: W. King
SECOND: J. Beil
AYES: Unanimous
Tape #CTC-27.09 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
November ‘07 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2007 Minutes]
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – November 14, 2007 Pg. 4
2. Request to remove the “handicapped” parking space in front of 916 N.
Laurel Dr.
John Marzotti
915 N. Laurel Dr.
Orange CA 92867
Chairman Beil – Given the fact that we had an Administrative Report that there is
concern over the past history of putting in handicapped marked curb on the
public street available for all handicapped public use and the fact that we were
sent out information that the City is developing some criteria for the
consideration of handicap parking space on public roads. Staff is asking this item
be deferred until our February meeting.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – This issue was brought to us last
October by the resident at 916 N. Laurel Dr.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – If the Commission wishes to consider
continuing the item, what the Commission should do is if there is a motion to
continue the Commission should not take the report right now, they should take
input from those present who wish to be heard on the continuance of the item,
then the Commission can decide if they want to continue or not. If they are going
to continue the item there is no need for the report and there won’t be any
testimony taken on the substance of the item as opposed to the continuance
issue. If the Commission is not going to consider the continuance and there is no
motion to continue, then we can go forward with the report and the public
hearing can go forward as normal.
Chairman Beil – So going back to the original request we will entertain a motion
to continue as requested by staff.
MOTION: W. King
SECOND: J. Beil
Chairman Beil – If anyone wishes to speak on the continuance of this motion to
the February meeting you may, otherwise if we do vote to continue it to our next
meeting we will not present the item and you’ll have to hold testimony specific to
this issue until the February meeting. The reason I feel we should continue this is
because we do have draft guidance and there are some questions on how this
draft guidance or criteria will be applied to the handicap parking areas that have
already been approved. I want that to develop through the staff a little more.
Will this criteria be brought back to the Commission for formal approval?
Amir Farahani, Acting City Traffic Engineer – Yes.
Tape #CTC-27.09 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
November ‘07 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2007 Minutes]
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – November 14, 2007 Pg. 5
Commissioner King – Formal approval, how will that work? Is this going to be
published?
Chairman Beil – You know how we have the Neighborhood Traffic Calming
Program that establishes certain criteria for the consideration, I guess this will be
in the same form of the criteria used for the consideration.
Commissioner King – So one could go to the City Clerk’s office and get a copy,
this would be on file with the City and anybody interested in handicapped
parking places residential can go to the City Clerk’s office and pull a copy? Id it
like an ordinance?
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – I would assume it would be available at
Traffic Engineering as opposed to the City Clerk’s office because it would not be a
formal city regulation, it would just be a policy directive for the department, so I
would imagine it would be on file there if somebody wanted to come and request
it that is where they would get it. Y
You have a motion and a second going for a continuance, I would suggest you
deal with that motion and then since you didn’t before I think it would be okay if
you reopened the Administrative Report to discuss the guidelines. It’s on the
Agenda and you can certainly discuss that now with any thoughts you have about
the guidelines, anything you can think of that you might want in there, I think it
would be appropriate if you reopen the report and discuss that item.
Chairman Beil – I see them very much related.
Commissioner Pyne – Since we’re dealing with the holding of the vote on this
item my concern in regards to our vote now about delaying this vote concerns the
fact that in this case the address on Laurel Dr. that this agenda item is directed to
I would hate the citizens of Orange to run out and make an attempt to mark their
own streets and their own handicapped zones prior to this being incorporated or
accepted and then trying to grandfather in because for that reason I would
request we vote to deal with this issue now, not shelve it and then allow anybody
who happens to have a blue curb right now to come back and reapply so we don’t
have the issue of them thinking they are going to be grand fathered in.
Chairman Beil – That’s a very complicated one because we’ve got a number of
handicap spots already established.
Commissioner Pyne – We have dealt with some of those already established
handicapped curbs where some have been allowed and some haven’t been
allowed. I would hate for the person involved in this agenda item to think they
are going to be grand fathered in or have the potential to be grand fathered in
because they already have the blue curb. For that purpose I would think that we
should vote not to continue and address the matter now.
Chairman Beil – I guess we have a Motion and a Second to continue the request,
all those in favor:
Tape #CTC-27.09 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
November ‘07 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2007 Minutes]
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – November 14, 2007 Pg. 6
ACTION: Continued the request to the February 13, 2008 Traffic
Commission meeting.
MOTION: W. King
SECOND: J. Beil
AYES: J. Beil, W. King
NOES: J. Pyne
777777777777777 End of Consideration Items 7777777777777777
III. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
Development of criteria for handicapped parking requests within the
public road right-of-ways.
Chairman Beil reopened the Administrative Report for the following
discussion of this item:
Chairman Beil – I think the general criteria that has been drafted is good for the
guidance to use. I have questions as Commissioner King does on the applicability
of the policy which is still almost used like a guidance versus formal City code.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – This would be guidelines they would not
be codified, they could be varied if there were special circumstances that require
that, but these would be general guidelines staff would use in determining
whether or not they would recommend that handicapped parking spot be placed
on the public roadway it would ultimately be the decision of the Commission if
that would occur and obviously they could appeal the council by either side. The
idea is for the Commission to give staff some guidance as to what the
Commission believes is appropriate for the issuance of handicapped parking
spots so staff knows that they are going to bring something to you and what the
Commission is expecting to see and guidelines that are to be met.
Chairman Beil – Is it also possible for us to take some action in this meeting to
essentially deny or not consider any additional on-street handicapped parking
until such guidelines or criteria are established?
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – It’s basically a moratorium on
handicapped parking on public parking. I think that would have to be an item
that would have to be Agendized for the next meeting. Although I think staff has
great latitude in what they bring before you anyway and I know they are listening
as I am so would assume they would understand that perhaps those items should
not until these guidelines are firmed up.
Tape #CTC-27.09 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
November ‘07 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2007 Minutes]
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – November 14, 2007 Pg. 7
Chairman Beil – Now these guidelines I keep hearing them referred to as criteria
and even talking with the Public Works Director and Asst. City Engineer they
refer to them as criteria to be considered. To approve these guidelines do they go
through Council for approval then?
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – Yes, and I think it is probably best that
they do to give them further weight. Just as guidelines for the Commission to
follow, I don’t necessarily thing we have to but just as with the Neighborhood
Traffic Plan you want the backing of the Council so we make sure we’re all on the
same page I’d suggest they would go through the Council.
Chairman Beil – I would like to make sure that whatever is developed and if we
do approve them through this Commission that the guidelines go through
Council also. So if there are any future decisions that are made there is some buy
in on the Council side on the criteria that we’re considering.
Commissioner Pyne – Bringing a moratorium it would be hard to do because I
would think the majority of the people who paint their curb don’t notify anybody
first so how could we set a moratorium when there is something that we don’t
know that’s going on?
Chairman Beil – This addresses all of the installations here that have been
approved by the Traffic Commission previously even the one that was agendized
that has been continued.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – This is not dealing with anything that
somebody is doing out on their own, these are all items that are approved by the
Traffic Commission. Anybody who goes out and tries to it on the street is in
violation of many of our codes and would be immediately removed.
Chairman Beil – I know when the speed hump issues were hot and heavy we did
make a motion not to consider a moratorium on the speed humps until the
threshold numbers had completed the Council approval in the RNTMP.
Commissioner King – I agree it looks thorough enough but is there some history
is there something about residential areas and handicap parking at curbs, does
that have some history in other cities around the state? Other than the history we
already have before us?
Amir Farahani, Acting City Traffic Engineer – During the process of providing
these guidelines I went to the website searching. For the limited time I had I
couldn’t find any similar issues so that was our thought we put in and we don’t
know that any other cities have such guidelines, but they might.
Chairman Beil – The one thought would be some additional things to flesh out in
the guidelines such as if there is no legal requirement for the City to provide
handicapped parking on a public street for a private property that may not have
good handicap parking and is accessible. The one consideration would be that it
would really be the proponent’s request to do it and similar to the paring permit
programs that it might be put on the proponent to really garner the support of
Tape #CTC-27.09 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
November ‘07 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2007 Minutes]
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – November 14, 2007 Pg. 8
their neighborhood with something that shows some kind of buy in from their
neighbors. To make a showing that we don’t run into a situation like the item
that was to be heard tonight. How many of these has the Commission approved?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – Over the last 22 years the Commission
has approved 12 handicapped parking spaces and we have a total of 132 ft., not
counting this particular item, of blue curb in the entire City. We don’t get that
many requests a year for these.
Chairman Beil – So the issue would be what do we do with those 12, how do they
fall in to the criteria? Do we have to go back and re-review those, or does that
just set them on the 5 year time period then so as of the date of approval all the
pre-existing ones have to be re-reviewed in accordance with the guidelines in a 5
year period.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – I think that’s the kind of direction you
want to give staff that you want to make sure that you have something that is
guidance as to how the existing spots will be handled.
Chairman Beil – I think there was mention of making them come back and re-
apply, I don’t know. I think staff needs to think through that, maybe look at the
locations and come up with something for us.
Commissioner Pyne – Very possibly some of them aren’t needed anymore.
Chairman Beil – It is quite possible, people move. I can recall the one over on
Cypress St. that was approved a few years back, I know the handicapped person
still parks there nightly but yet the situation he got it approved under no longer
exists because he was a renter and his landlord parked his motorhome in the
driveway and I don’t see that motorhome there anymore. Additional guidance for
the staff to take note of in regard to the guidelines?
Commissioner King – I think it’s a good idea.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – If the items the staff currently listed on
the guideline page they gave you whether you have any comments about those,
are there any you like or don’t like, you think look good, or you want additional
information or if there are things you want removed that might help staff have
some guidance.
Commissioner King – It looks fine to me, but what Jim is talking about is a good
ideal of fleshing this out and having the proponent show there have support of
their neighborhood. That’s a good idea to have and I’m sure the staff can get
together and think about what they can do.
Amir Farahani, Acting City Traffic Engineer – I was wondering if there was a
need or a possibility for the participant to have any comments on these items.
Chairman Beil – Does anyone with to speak on your thoughts when we have a
request for this what are the type of things we should consider?
Tape #CTC-27.09 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – November 14, 2007 Pg. 9
Debbie Wagner, 916 N. Laurel Dr. – I’m a little concerned because maybe if other
people don’t like the looks of it you’re going to make it hard for a person with a
true disability to park in their own area. One of things we could look at is what is
the percentage of the disabled population and how much disabled parking do we
have in residential ar4eas compared to how many disabled people we have. I bet
you have a lot more than 12 disabled people in this City. There are time when
parking isn’t an issue on my street but there are times when there is not a spot
available.
Lisa Karnes, 930 N. Laurel Dr. – I agree you need guidelines before approving
any more of these. I think you’re right on track.
ACTION: Receive & File Report
MOTION: J. Pyne
SECOND: J. Beil
AYES: Unanimous
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today’s Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic
Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - February 13, 2008
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
pthen@cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744-5536
FAX: (714) 744-5573
Tape #CTC-27.09 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
November ‘07 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2007 Minutes]
Printed on Recycled Paper