HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-08-2008 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: October 8, 2008
Tape #CTC-28.10 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Oct. ‘o8[N:/Traffic/CTC/2008 Minutes]
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I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present – Commissioners: J. Beil, L. Dick, W. King, N. Lall
Absent – Commissioners: J. Pyne
Present –Staff: A. Farahani, D. Allenbach, W. Winthers, Sgt. D. Adams, P. Then
C. Approval of Minutes
May 14, 2008
ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION: W. King
SECOND: J. Beil
AYES: J. Beil, L. Dick W. King,
ABSTAIN: N. Lall
September 10, 2008
ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: N. Lall
AYES: J. Beil, L. Dick, N. Lall, W. King
ABSENT: None
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this meeting.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
End of Consent Items
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – October 8, 2008 Pg. 2
Tape #CTC-28.10 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Oct. ‘08 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2008 Minutes]
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IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the installation of red curb markings on both sides of the
driveway serving the duplex at 1502 E. Adams Ave.
Marion Norred
Cerro Villa Dr.
Villa Park, Ca 92861
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Millie Shuler, 1502 E. Adams Ave. – In favor of red curbs. It seems as though
that street was loaded with cars, now there are less, but that doesn’t mean that it
won’t happen again once everyone goes back to work. This is adjacent to
Shattuck St. and the cars park right up to within 8-10 inches of our driveway, and
it is dangerous because when we try to pull out of the driveway we have no
option. If there’s an 8 ft. or 10 ft. van here and a big van over there you cannot
see east or west. The van is usually 8-9 ft. wide and by the time you pull out 8-9
ft. to be able to see down the street your car is 5 ft. in front of you. It’s
interesting, once I made my application to Dave, I went outside and found the red
curb painted down by the curve by Lincoln coming into Adams. There is a fire
hydrant there and it has always been honored, and no one ever parks there.
Beyond the STOP sign there is another 8-10 ft. red curb. There is no red curb on
the other 3 sides by the STOP sign. It is dangerous and all the other condo
driveways have red curbs.
Kiki Chryssogelos, Brea, I’m the owner of two units on E. Adams Ave. I’m here
to support both Marion and Millie. Her trash service is a different than mine.
When she brings her trash cans out and places them in front of her unit if there
are cars there the trash collector cannot get to them, so she has to move them all
the way down to the end of the corner of Adams & Lincoln. From her perspective
if you could red curb that whole area from the fire hydrant all the way down to
the curve it would make it easier at least for one side. We would love both sides
so it appears symmetrical.
Marion Norred, Villa Park – In favor of the red curb. I am the ow ner of the
duplex in question and several months ago I got a call from Millie, my tenant,
who was concerned that she was having difficulty getting out of the driveway , and
she stated how dangerous it was. Give it consideration to do one side, because
the trash can situation is an issue. I believe the curbs up the street have been
painted so they’ve been given that ability. I’ve been there randomly and on some
days I think it’s great that there is so much parking available and then there are
days you cannot park on the street. When a tenant calls and tells you she fears
for her life when she is exiting her driveway it is a big concern, and it should be a
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – October 8, 2008 Pg. 3
Tape #CTC-28.10 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Oct. ‘08 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2008 Minutes]
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concern for everybody, because now it has been brought to your attention and if
an accident happens you don’t want to say, I think they came and spoke to us.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
Vice-Chairman Lall – I was out there this afternoon at 4 p.m. and parking was
pretty heavy. The area between the fire hydrant and the driveway was open. On
the corner of Shattuck there are cars even parked on the corners so it seems to me
there is a parking issue. They are parked very close to the driveway. On the other
hand, the speeds I observed were very slow. I’d hate to take away too much
parking from that area, but giving a little bit of room on the east side would
enhance safety here.
Chairman Beil – That was my thought too. Looking at how it was laid out and
with the speed of the cars coming west on Adams, the visibility could be
enhanced. The whole area is completely over-parked which is typical of the
apartment and duplex areas in Orange that have too many vehicles and too many
people living in them.
Commissioner Dick – I am loath to remove parking, we have multiple tenants
living here and they have people who want to visit during the holidays. I’ve
looked at the traffic accident reports and we’ve had none this year. Going back to
2005 we had some side-swipes, but I’d be willing to go from the fire hydrant to
the driveway, and you’ll have to concentrate on right-turns.
Chairman Beil – I believe Vice-Chairman Lall was possibly allowing some red on
the east side of the driveway opposite the fire hydrant. That was my thoughts
also. But I want to ask a question of staff, the red curb 17 ft. from the fire
hydrant, that’s not for the fire hydrant I’m assuming, is that just the typical vision
zone for the STOP intersection?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – I don’t know how the field crew
measured this. You’re not allowed to park within 15 ft. of a fire hydrant.
Typically you would put 20 ft. of red curb on either side of a driveway that is one
car length. In this case, if you elected to place red curb on the west side of the
driveway we would want to install 23 ft., because you wouldn’t have a useable
parking space left.
Commissioner Dick – If I’m looking at this correctly, if I’m pulling out and I look
to my left and I can see the fire hydrant then I can see oncomi ng traffic, that
would be safer and then I would look to the right. I’m still going with the 23 ft. of
red curb.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – October 8, 2008 Pg. 4
Tape #CTC-28.10 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Oct. ‘08 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2008 Minutes]
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Chairman Beil – If you had to have one, what would be of the most concern,
looking to the east or to the west? If you’re coming out of the d riveway as shown
in the picture?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst –If it were me, I would take the section
directly in front of the proponent’s house or on the west side of the driveway. The
eastbound vehicles are closer to that side of the road and line of sight is more
acute, therefore if someone is parked in that area it’s going to be harder to see an
oncoming vehicle. If I had to do only one I would take that side of the driveway.
ACTION: Approved the installation of 23 feet of red curb adjacent to
the current red curb painted at the fire hydrant, (westerly
side).
MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: N. Lall
AYES: J. Beil, L. Dick, N. Lall
NOES: W. King
ABSTAIN: None
2. Request for the installation of red curb markings at the intersection of
Briardale Ave. and Shattuck Pl.
Jo Martin
N. Shattuck Pl.
Orange, Ca 92856
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Edwin Burns, N. Shattuck Pl,. – In favor of request. (Presented photographs of
parked vehicles.) This is the best proposal for this neighborhood that I’ve seen in
the last 20 years. In the last few years it has become a problem on Saturday, not
too much on Sunday, and occasionally during the week. On Saturday, (refers to
photographs from Shattuck Pl. looking east toward Tustin St.) the second
photograph shows looking from Briardale toward Tustin St. and it shows the car
coming down, and nobody from Shattuck could have seen that car until it was
right at them. Up to now the record has been good, I know there have been
accidents at that corner because my daughter was involved in one of them with a
moped. On Saturday that is a common occurrence. If nothing else I would like to
see red curb for Saturday’s, just like those little signs that say “On Monday No
Parking for Street Sweeping.”
Joan Ashworth, N. Shattuck Pl. – In favor of request. I live on the corner and I
get all the traffic. I don’t have a problem with them parking on the side street
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – October 8, 2008 Pg. 5
Tape #CTC-28.10 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Oct. ‘08 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2008 Minutes]
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coming off Tustin St. If you paint the curb red I’m going to have a lot of cars
parked in front of my house, if you’re going to do that please paint the curb in
front of my house red also. I haven’t seen a problem.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
Commissioner Dick – There have been no accidents in the last three years?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – That’s correct.
ACTION: Denied the request.
MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: W. King
AYES: Unanimous
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
3. Request for the implementation of a Neighborhood Parking Permit
Program on both sides of Citrus St. between Almond Ave. and
Chapman Ave.
Beth Huber
S. Citrus St.
Orange CA 92868
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Tim Hoffman, S. Citrus St. – Favor of the permit parking. A 600 ft. street is not
very long for the number of people who are trying to park there. If you look at
adjacent blocks during the day they’re pretty much vacant. The two businesses at
the end of the street historically haven’t generated a lot of parking but within the
last 4-6 months there was a change in those businesses and a big influx of people
need to park to go to those businesses. I work from home so I’m seeing them
come and go during the day and I’m seeing the same vehicles over and over, I
don’t know if they are employees or customers. If anyone on the block wants to
do anything out of the ordinary that would generate additional parking such as a
party it becomes a nightmare, there are just not enough places for all the cars. If
it seems reasonable to allow us to have permits we’re very much in favor of that.
Leonard Musgrave, E. Ruth Pl. – Speaking for his son Jeffrey Musgrave who lives
on W. Almond Ave. – My son is out of town and cannot make the meeting.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – October 8, 2008 Pg. 6
Tape #CTC-28.10 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Oct. ‘08 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2008 Minutes]
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Opposes the permit parking. Why are there so many cars on this street? Is it
because there are boarding houses there? Garages are meant for parking cars,
how many of those garages are being used this way? Are they set up with a
kitchen, a bathroom and a bedroom? Are there businesses being run out of these
homes? The previous speaker just indicated he had a business there, is he alone
or does he have employees? Where will the overflow cars park? I’ll bet in 4
months my son is going to be in here with a similar request because these cars
will be parked on Almond Ave. He lives right at the “T-bone” section on Almond,
and the problem will just move there. Almond is a real narrow, busy street, a lot
of people use instead of Chapman Ave. Its difficult pulling out of his driveway as
there’s parking on both sides. There are too many cars in all these
neighborhoods; there are too many people in these single-family homes.
Brad Prescott, S. Citrus St. – In favor of permit parking. The business above the
bank has expanded its offices across the street above the ballet dance studio.
That has completely jammed up the street, not only is the street narrow just like
Almond, I believe it’s a little narrower than Almond. Getting in my driveway is a
nightmare because of the way people are parking their cars. Not only that bu t the
people loitering in front of my house is out of control, they leave trash, and they
are employees of the business which is a huge issue. The business has also rented
a house at the end of Citrus St. that they use for lunch and things of that nature,
you can imagine the amount of loitering we have in front of our household. I
have two small children and if I had know this would occur I probably wouldn’t
have purchased the house. I am a single-family household, I don’t run a business
from my home, and all I have in my garage are a couple of bicycles. I use my
garage for parking, but I should be able to use the street in front of my house as
well.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil – Some of the permit parking areas and no overnight parking
issues we’ve dealt with in the past, a lot of times they are little bit different. They
are generated by the true overnight parking due to the high density of people
living in each dwelling. In this instance it sounds like it is daytime parking from
the businesses. I really like the permit parking program myself and I think you’re
real fortunate, I don’t know if one person paid of if a group got together, but that
is where a lot of neighborhoods run into problems because nobody wants to put
up the money, but this looks real well put together.
ACTION: Approved the requested implementation of a
Neighborhood Parking Permit Program on both sides of
Citrus St. from Almond Ave. to the southerly commercial
property lines south of Chapman Ave.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – October 8, 2008 Pg. 7
Tape #CTC-28.10 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Oct. ‘08 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2008 Minutes]
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MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: W. King
AYES: Unanimous
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
4. Request for the installation of an “All-Way” STOP control at the
intersection of Shaffer St. and Sycamore Ave.
Janelle Hall
N. Shaffer St.
Orange CA 92866
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Chairman Beil – I remember that pretty much this same request for the “All Way”
STOP control came to the Commission previously at this location, and our
recommendation was to install the “CROSS TRAFFIC DOES NOT STOP” plates
on the existing STOP sign, another mitigating factor on Shaffer St. was the little
dip, cross-gutter. I’m very familiar with the intersection, I walk through there in
the evening and the cars really slow down for that cross-gutter, even though it’s
not that severe of a cross-gutter, it gives that appearance and it makes the cars
slow down. I don’t really see any justification for it.
Commissioner King – I’d just like to say that staff has done a lot of work here and
I’m impressed. To go through all the numbers game so if you’d like to bring it
back at another time I’d be willing to look at it again. I too know that intersection
very well, we went to high school just a block away so we went through that
intersection many, many times. There’s a dip for sure and most people slow
down. Whatever engineering solution you find bring to back to us, I sure would
like to take a look at it.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
ACTION: Denied the request.
MOTION J. Beil
SECOND: W. King
AYES: Unanimous
NOES None
ABSTAIN None
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – October 8, 2008 Pg. 8
Tape #CTC-28.10 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Oct. ‘08 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2008 Minutes]
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5. Request for the installation of an “All-Way” STOP control at the
intersection of Olive St. and Maple Ave.
Pamela Sailor
N. Olive St.
Orange CA 92856
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to you r
copy. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Lindsey Hurban, W. Maple Ave. – In favor of request. I work in a maternity
home and it’s a combination of a residential and commercial area; we have a big
issue primarily with the buses going through for the last several years. They don’t
slow down. I was almost hit walking across the street more than a dozen times.
Our residents have almost been hit and these are pregnant women and small
children.
Chairman Beil – Is there a crosswalk there?
Lindsey Hurban, W. Maple Ave. – No. I had a co-worker who was pulling a
rolling back-pack and the wheel got stuck in the crack that was in the street and
she had to ditch her rolling briefcase and jump out of the way because they just
don’t stop. As this is right by the Orange Circle, people bypass the plaza and
drive on Maple, and they drive rather fast. Across from our facility is a family
sober living home, with a lot of children who ride their bikes in that area. There
is a church and a parking lot, a tea house and an apartment building. The bus
terminal is just down the street and although there hasn’t been an increase in
buses, they still go down that street several times a day. It’s not safe at all.
Chairman Beil – I’m very familiar with this section also as I walk down through
here all the time. I just have to be conscious when I’m walking across the street.
There’s very short spaced STOP signs along this stretch of Maple.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
ACTION: Denied the request.
MOTION J. Beil
SECOND: W. King
AYES: Unanimous
NOES None
ABSTAIN None
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – October 8, 2008 Pg. 9
Tape #CTC-28.10 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Oct. ‘08 [N:/Traffic/CTC/2008 Minutes]
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End of Consideration Items
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today’s Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic
Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - November 19, 2008
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
pthen@cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744-5536
FAX: (714) 744-5573