HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-11-2008 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: June 11, 2008
Tape #CTC-28.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present – Commissioners: J. Beil, L. Dick, W. King, N. Lall, J. Pyne
Present –Staff: A. Farahani, D. Allenbach, W. Winthers, Sgt. D. Adams, P. Then
C. Approval of Minutes
April 9, 2008
ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: J. Beil
AYES: J. Beil, L. Dick, N. Lall, W. King, J. Pyne
ABSENT: None
May 14, 2008 - Unavailable – Carry over to August 13, 2008
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this meeting.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 2
Tape #CTC-28.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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III. CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Request for the installation of red curb markings in front of 170, 180 and
190 N. Manchester Ave.
Bennie Owen
PO Box 1012
Orange CA 92856-0012
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion of
this request.
Chairman Beil – In the condition and improvement diagram, are there also the
normal vision enhancements on Compton Ave. itself?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – Yes, there is 30 ft. of red curb existing
on Compton Ave. as motorists are heading eastbound, to keep that area clear, so
you can make a smooth transition around to Manchester Ave.
Joe & Petra Gutierrez, 170 N. Manchester Ave. – Opposed. We live at 170 N.
Manchester Ave., right were the motor home is shown in your photograph. There
has never been any problems with the parking there but as you can see we only
have 2 parking spaces in front of our house. I have 3 kids and they all have
vehicles and there is red curb on Sheringham so there’s no parking available
there, I would have to go about 300 ft. around the corner. Even on the Compton
Ave. side there is no parking on that side because they just built some
condominiums on that corner, and on Sheringham there’s some leasing office
there, and there is the Best Buy across the street. The people that are turning
right, why can’t they go around at the light and make a right? There are still two
lanes there. Not too many cars go through that last lan e. If there were a lot of
parking around there free then there would be no problem, but that is not the
case.
Chairman Beil – We’ll try to address that comment. So you have 2 vehicles?
Joe & Petra Gutierrez, 170 N. Manchester Ave. – We have a total of 5 vehicles and
a motor home. The motor home will be moved so that will be a space for our
vehicle right there. We have to park one of the kids around the corn er but it’s still
a little way for them to walk.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 3
Tape #CTC-28.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Chairman Beil – I wonder if you can articulate on the issue of t he little pork chop
island and why we don’t have the right turn go around that island rather than
through the little lane along the houses.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer – The traffic signal has been installed in a
way that the 3 lanes southbound, the outside lane is the RIGHT TURN ONLY.
We made that “Right Turn Only” in order to create no conflicts with the move
from Compton making right turns. As a result there is no STOP and no YIELD
for the Compton motorists making right turns. If they go around the island then
there is going to be a conflict at the time the southbound green and going
eastbound on Compton will have some conflict.
Chairman Beil – Essentially it’s “MUST TURN RIGHT” and there’s no
signalization for that.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer – There is no signalization for that move.
Chairman Beil – I’m very familiar with the intersection, do you know what the
posted speed limit is on southbound Manchester?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer – 40 MPH.
Chairman Beil – You’re coming around a fairly fast speed curve, and at an angle
coming right in to where the right turning motorists would be coming in.
Vice Chairman Lall – I really see an impact on these people and they’re having to
park around the block. That’s quite a distance away and puts a burden on the
people on Sheringham. Is there anything we can do to widen that lane through
striping, a change in the median to continue to allow on-street parking.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – The striping at the intersection is not
paint, it’s thermoplastic and it’s embedded in the asphalt, so it’s not a question of
just sandblasting that striping and moving it over as you would with normal
paint. You’re going to have to grind that off. We can modify the island somewhat
and then move the inside lane over so you can get that extra 2 ft. or so, but it will
cost several thousand dollars, and posting the signs would cost around $150.00.
Vice Chairman Lall – Aside from the cost, can it be done and provide a safe
environment while retaining the parking?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – We would have to study that little bit
further, but I believe you could probably adjust the island and the striping to
provide a little bit wider lane in that area.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 4
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Vice Chairman Lall – My thoughts on that are that I would really hate to take
away their parking, it would be a burden. I know if I lived there I would be very
unhappy with this. I know we’ve spent a ton of money improving that
intersection and those streets through there. I wish this were something we could
have caught earlier and incorporate it into the original construction, but my
thoughts would be to let city staff have a go at that and see if there is some way to
keep the parking and provide a safe turning maneuver.
ACTION: Continue item to allow staff further study on how to
affordably alter the intersection to allow on-street parking
to remain.
MOTION: N. Lall
Commissioner Dick – I understand this isn’t going to make our corresponding
speaker happy, what if we put in red curb in front of 180 & 190, wouldn’t that give
us a sufficient amount of space to execute a right turn?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – Physically you can drive over the
painted gore point, but it is against the law. If you make 180 & 190 red in this
area which happens to be the wider portion of the lane, it’s about 17 ft. wide,
ultimately you will have to merge out ahead of that gore point, which is illegal.
Even if someone is parked in this area, as you see in the photograph where the
white truck is parked, which is where you propose to allow on -street parking you
can see the vehicle here is merging out and driving across that painted median.
Chairman Beil – What did you say the width between the white stripe and the
curb is?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – At the corner we measure from back of
curb return to the island to be about 17 ft., do wn near where this white truck is
it’s more about 14 ft. wide, and our standard for a travel lane with on-street
parking is a minimum of 18 ft. We would like to see it wider , but it’s a minimum
of 18 ft.
Chairman Beil – We haven’t had any accident history on this at all?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – Compton Ave. is a residential street.
We estimate there is about 200 trips daily making a right turn from Compton
onto Manchester. Traffic volume on Manchester is fairly light; it’s probably
around 7,000 to 8,000 vehicles per day. The one issue is, as you are making the
southbound move most people we’ve observed were actually merging over to
make a left turn at Chapman, so they’re going across 1-2 lanes of traffic as
opposed to staying in this travel lane to make a right turn at Chapman, ultimately
this lane becomes a “Right Turn Only” lane at Chapman. So what they have to do
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 5
Tape #CTC-28.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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is to look in their rear view mirrors to make sure there isn’t someone coming up
behind them, the traffic signal at Compton normally rests on green for the north-
south phase, and it only changes when there is somebody coming out of the Best
Buy area. While you’re doing that you’re trying to maneuver around a vehicle
that parked in a fairly narrow travel lane.
Chairman Beil – So we don’t really have any history, any police reports for
property damage? Have you had mirrors hit while parked there?
Joe & Petra Gutierrez, 170 N. Manchester Ave. – Yes.
ACTION: Continue item to allow staff further study on how to
affordably alter the intersection to allow on-street parking
to remain.
MOTION: N. Lall
SECOND: J. Pyne
Commissioner Pyne – I would also add since we’re dealing with Compton Ave.
which is a residential street, I don’t know why we can’t stop them befor e they
come out from Compton onto Manchester.
Chairman Beil – There used to be a STOP bar, actually you can almost see it
faded out on the aerial picture.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – When this photograph was taken, as
you can see this was the UCI satellite parking lot, there was a STOP bar when this
intersection was unsignalized so you were still forced to make a right turn coming
from Compton to Manchester, but there was a STOP bar here and it was right at
the property line between 180 & 190 N. Manchester Ave.
Chairman Beil – I know some of the practical reasons of having a STOP bar on a
one-way street. There’s not really any practicality particularly, when it’s going
into its own lane and it’s hard to turn around and look for on-coming traffic.
Commissioner Pyne – I was particularly thinking of a STOP sign on Compton
eastbound as it makes a southbound turn onto Manchester, which would then
alleviate fears that people making that right turn and would run into the back of
vehicles parked on the roadway might slow them down a bit.
Commissioner Dick – I heard what the minimum widths were, and as I
understand it the streets don’t meet them.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – In its current configuration this travel
lane does not meet that standard.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 6
Tape #CTC-28.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Commissioner Dick – I want to be sure that is addressed in the report when it is
brought back.
Chairman Beil – I hope the residents will move their motor homes, I don’t want
to be the expert on the ordinance on private property RV parking, that will create
more parking for you.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – Is the motion to return the item to a date
certain or just when staff is ready?
Chairman Beil – I think when staff is ready, I want to give them time for that.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer – We should be prepared for the August
meeting.
VOTE:
MOTION: N. Lall
SECOND: J. Pyne
AYES: J. Beil, L. Dick, N. Lall, J. Pyne
ABSTAIN: W. King
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the installation of “NO PARKING ANYTIME” restrictions on
both sides of Nohl Canyon Rd. from Nohl Ranch Rd. to the south City limits.
City of Anaheim
Public Utilities Department
201 S. Anaheim Blvd. #601
Anaheim CA 92805
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy.
Chairman Beil – What was the notification for this item?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – We notified a 300 ft. radius around so
not just the residents that front onto Nohl Canyon, but we also went back on the
side streets about 300 ft. If there is any demand for on-street parking along the
west side of Nohl Canyon most likely they will be using White Lantern and Valley
Glen for ancillary parking, and we wanted those residents to be aware there could
be an increased demand in their area for on-street parking?
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 7
Tape #CTC-28.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Chairman Beil – The school principal or the School District were also notified?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – No I don’t believe we notified the
school at this point.
Vice Chairman Lall – Any idea how many large truck trips will be going on
through this neighborhood during the course of this project?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – I believe there are representatives of
the City of Anaheim here and they could probably answer that question.
Vice Chairman Lall – Our sign recommendation is 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday thru
Friday. Are there legal restrictions on how long they can be working during the
day and whether they can work on Saturday or Sunday?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – Again, that is probably a question the
Anaheim representatives should answer. But I believe what they were trying to
do is make sure that their hauling operations did not coincide with the school’s
pick-up and drop off times, so they should be out of the area when the students
are being dropped off in the morning, and later when they are being picked up in
the afternoon.
Vice Chairman Lall – But does the City of Orange have an ordinance restricting
their work hours?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – We do restrict work in the streets
during the peak hours.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion of this
request.
David Kent, 2502 Nohl Canyon Rd. – Opposed to parking restrictions. I live on
the corner of Valley Glen and Nohl Canyon. I would like to thank both D ave here
and Bill Moorhead of the City of Anaheim; they have been working well with us in
the neighborhood trying to resolve issues. This last issue was unanticipated; we
understood about the kids drop off, this all made a lot of sense. Some of the
items Dave has shown you are great starting points but I’ve brought a few
photographs what I think you’ll find are a little more enlighteni ng. The first
photo was taken standing at the corner of Valley Glen and Nohl Canyon, in front
of my house. You can see the openness and the straight line of sight the trucks
will have as they go to the back of this property and the street. The point of these
photos is to demonstrate to ask not to limit parking in front of my property. My
property is a piece of pie, it a triangular shape and my frontage is only on Nohl
Canyon, my driveway is on Valley Glen but I can’t park in front of it. There are 3
homes on our street, one of the residents is quite elderly and she cannot be asked
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 8
Tape #CTC-28.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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to not park in front of her house, or that her tea friends not park up there and
walk up to the tennis courts. The Nowcki’s live here on the street, where the
motor home is, and of course I live on the street with two kids who have cars and
I have cars. The next 2 photographs represent the turn from Nohl Canyon onto
Valley Glen where it was said you could park. You can’t park there, you can see
the truck in the first one kinda sorta, and I have seen cars crashed at that corner,
it’s a downhill tight right. I really think we’re running out of s pace. I understand
the berm, we understand that should be “No Parking 24/7” although I think you
could almost make that “8 am to 6 pm Monday through Friday”. Where do
people park whenever we have any type of event at our house? The last few shots
are looking the other way and I understand too as you get closer to Nohl Ranch
Rd. it gets a lot tighter, it’s got a lot more people and things going on. I’m an
architect and I understand how rock haulers move, and so my question is if there
is any other way to address this? We’ve talked about flagmen, bagging the No
Parking signs I hear everybody say up to 34 months; that’s 2 ½ years I can’t park
in front of my house. We know there isn’t going to be dirt haulers coming up the
street every day for 2 ½ years, I know most dirt haulers don’t work past 3 pm,
they’re not going to be there at 6 pm. Is there a different hour or can it be left to a
supervisor at Anaheim or Orange that we can bag it when they know they’re not
going to be using it. When I saw the agenda item and the carte blanche approach
for 3 years, “8 am – 6 pm No Parking”, it’s a little over the top.
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – We put the project through
the full Environmental Impact Report procedure, which included public
comments, our response to public comments, and then we came up with
mitigation measures and processed design features to address concerns voiced by
the public, and we’ve worked quite extensively with the public in this area. We
feel we have come up with a very good plan that considered the input and
concerns of the community and we talked at length with the City of Orange to
come up with this plan. There was a comment about the number of trucks. Over
the 3 year project we estimate approx. 2,200 trucks. We set limits of no more
than 60 trucks per day, the maximum number of trucks we have per month is
250. If you do the math there is only going to be short periods of time when there
is going to be trucks entering the site and that would be primarily for crit ical
concrete pours. We designed the facility such that there would be a minimum
amount of export from the site. We’re going to be using a lot of the dirt on the
site to re-grade the slopes around the project. We’ve even reduced the size of the
project from 20,000,000 gal. down to 10,000,000 gal. to accommodate or try to
reduce the impact to the community. We expanded facilities outside the area to
reduce the size. We feel we’ve got down to the minimum number of trucks and
the property mitigation measures to minimize the impact on the community by
limiting the number of trucks. I think Mr. Kent has some good input as far as
bagging the “No Parking” signs when we don’t have heavy construction.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 9
Tape #CTC-28.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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Chairman Beil – Onsite parking for the construction crews, laborers, and so on.
Where would that be?
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – That would be up on the
construction site itself.
Chairman Beil – So they will be accessing down Nohl Canyon Rd. the same way
as all the construction haul roads and access roads will be using. How many
people do you anticipate being on a job of this size?
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – I’m not sure of the number of
employees.
Chairman Beil – In their environmental process did you work with the school to
receive comments from the school?
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – Yes. Chris Parker, Principal
at the school and I speak quite frequently about the project and they were noticed
in the environment process, and notices were put up on their boards at the
school. I also worked with Mike Christiansen who is with the School District.
Chairman Beil – I know it’s not in the City of Orange but the Olive Hills Tennis
Court facility has very limited parking, is access to that going to be impeded? I
heard in the presentation that they would even be utilizing the parking of the
tennis courts.
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – No, there will be parking for
the tennis court.
Commissioner Dick – I am really a little disappointed about this reduction in
size, I think it means you will be back sooner rather than later you’re going to
want to expand that and I think it’s short sighted and you should go ahead do it
properly while you’re there. I don’t think 20,000,000 gal. is too large. The
guideline of eliminating the congestion in the mornings during the school drop -
off particularly during the school period which I guess is, and I’m not that
familiar if they’re on S track or T track, whether they’re on traditional or year-
round and I know the use the facilities for a lot of things. Is it all over by 8 am?
Have they got everybody delivered by 8 a.m.?
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – Yes, I think so.
Unidentified speaker – The mitigation measure is ½ of hour before and after
those morning and afternoon.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 10
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Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Chairman Beil – You mentioned the School District is also doing a parking
project or something that will change that.
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – Yes. We are funding a
parking lot project for the school to off-set the parking and any parking used on
the street. Our construction traffic will start at 8:30 am to avoid the drop off time
for the children at the school. I believe their start time for classes is 8:15 am but
we won’t have construction traffic until 8:45 am. Basically our contract is
whatever next year’s starting time is, they might adjust it, our time is ½ hr. after
that starting time and all kids are in, there can be no trucks until that ½ hr. has
passed.
Chairman Beil – My experience has been that truckers show up when they show
up.
John Lower, Transportation Mgr., City of Anaheim – Actually the City is putting
cameras in to enforce that. As part of the mitigation measures they are putting
cameras in so they will be able to track when the trucks are coming in, and try as
best as is feasible to implement that part.
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – We’re also funding an
additional crossing guard for the school, to make sure there are no issues with
stray kids getting across the intersection.
Vice Chairman Lall – I commend you for all you efforts in trying to protect the
kids, I hope you will be able to enforce that. I’ve been in construction for quite
some time and I agree with Chairman Beil’s observation that they do what they
want when they want. We have signing that is potentially going up that prohibits
parking from 8 am to 6 pm Monday thru Friday. Do you have any set work
hours, will you be working Saturdays, and will you be making sure your people
are off the site at a certain time?
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – We don’t have any Saturday
times scheduled for construction.
Vice Chairman Lall – Do you have a prohibition against that or is that just what is
anticipated.
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – We have no Saturday’s as
defined as one of the project design features, so that is prohibited.
Chairman Beil – Do we really need both sides for access for those trucks? When
you look at the actual width of the street if parking is just restricted on the
easterly side of the street, and coupled with a construction zone vehicle speed
limit of 10 MPH?
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 11
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Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – Our concern would be if we’re talking
about coming in one way. This photograph is taken at White Lantern and we’re
looking south around the curve. If somebody is parked on the west side of the
street and you’re talking simply ingress, or just egress, then you have enough
room because you’re taking out 8 ft. and you’re left with about 21-22 ft. of
roadway for the larger trucks to maneuver. Our concern would be if we have two
trucks coming in at the same time, we have trucks going out side by side, and
you’re trying to get these guys to maneuver through a curve, and as you can see in
the photo, at certain points there really isn’t a long even at a 10 MPH speed limit,
and you’re coming around a curve, concern would be for side-swipe accidents in
this area.
Chairman Beil – I think we could restrict construction speed way down; it really
takes that factor out of the picture.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – If we’re talking about concrete trucks
and that, they travel pretty slowly to begin with and you’re talking about going up
a grade, I’m not sure how you would enforce that other than you can post a
construction sign. I don’t know how often the police will be there to make sure
they’re traveling at 10 MPH and that’s the other issue.
Chairman Beil – We currently have that condition now though, even without
construction traffic and not much speed limit posting on the street where if you
have the motor home parked there and a hummer parked on the other side,
they’re no way you can get two vehicles in there anyway.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – That’s correct.
Commissioner Dick – Again as background information, I hear that you had the
environmental impact review and the exchange of ideas with people who reside in
the area, but if I heard it correctly you were thankful for the input about the
concept of bagging the “No Parking” sign during period of not truly having them
in need. I thought that’s what I heard.
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – That’s correct.
Commissioner Dick – Would that mean that would be something that your team
would be prepared to embrace, or be prepared to consider?
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – I see no reason why we
couldn’t embrace that.
Chairman Beil – Which signs are we talking about being bagged?
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 12
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Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – This would just be from the
intersection of White Lantern to the entrance to the project site, which would be
3 homes, that includes Mr. Kent and Mr. Nowcki’s house and at that particular
point there is a clear line of sight, there’s no curve so there’s no real compromise
to the safety on that corner if there should be another vehicle that way. I don’t
feel there’s any compromise to safety, I think it facilitates the project and also
responds to the residents.
Chairman Beil – So that would mean we would still put in the “No Parking” on
the northerly or easterly side, and which signs are we talking about, just the ones
in front on the southerly or westerly side in front of those 3 houses? The proposal
was to be “No Parking 8 am to 6 pm” on that side.
Bill Moorhead, Project Manager, City of Anaheim – That’s correct. On the
westerly side “No Parking 8 am - 6 pm” the entire length, and we would agree to
bag the “No Parking” signs in the last block on the westerly side when we were
not doing extensive construction activities requiring hauling.
Vice Chairman Lall – I’m still not certain why we have to have the “No Parking
Anytime” on the northeasterly side of Nohl Canyon Rd. Wouldn’t it be acceptable
just to go with something similar to the 8 am to 6 pm Monday thru Friday
restriction?
Chairman Beil – I’ve got a feeling ultimately our staff may ask to keep that there
permanently because you can’t even get two vehicles side-by-side through when
there are cars parked there.
John Lower, Traffic & Transportation Manager, City of Anaheim – Dave has a
great slide showing we have 29 ft. of pavement to work with. We too devote 8 ft.
for a parking lane, leaving us with 21 feet and we’re going to have 2 -way traffic on
this street, so we’re going to have one 11 ft. travel lane and one 10 ft. travel lane.
There’s not adequate pavement width to devote another 8 ft. to parking on the
east side and that is why our recommendation is because of no frontage and no
sidewalk to prohibit it during this construction period.
Chairman Beil – If you’ve ever looked at a truck turning template as trucks are
going around those corners they track wider than any average vehicle.
John Lower, Traffic & Transportation Manager, City of Anaheim – I’m not saying
completely eliminate the parking restrictions on that side but make them
consistent with the parking restriction on the other side.
Vice Chairman Lall – If you’re not going to be there after 6 pm, why wouldn’t we
allow parking in the evening and on Saturday and Sunday’s?
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 13
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John Lower, Traffic & Transportation Manager, City of Anaheim – The feedback
we got from our communications with neighborhood residents was that’s not
going to be a problem because it’s not really used. The only time our
observations showed any significant use was during the school drop off and pick
up. Well O.K. we’ll replace that by building 40 additional spaces by expanding
the school parking lot.
Vice Chairman Lall – One of the questions I have is on the quitting time of your
work. We have a “No Parking from 8 am to 6 pm”, I know I’m a ½ hour from
work, I get off at 5 pm and I hate to have to park around the block for ½ hour to
legally park in front of my house. Is 6 pm absolutely critical or are you going to
be out of there before that?
John Lower, Traffic & Transportation Manager, City of Anaheim – It depends on
what happens with the school and what the school hours are. We can’t resume
truck activity until ½ hour after the school afternoon pick up period. We wanted
to retain the flexibility to have some trucking operations after that period.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – I would have to check the legality and the
ability for the bagging issue. I’m not sure of the requirements of who can approve
bagging signs that have been approved. I don’t know that the Commission has
that authority or only the Council or even if the Council has that authority. I
suppose you could make the motion if you want to go that route and then we can
look into the legality later, and then just determine the right way to do it, if we
need to bring it to Council I could always do that later.
Chairman Beil – Couldn’t it be done by the Public Works Department as a
condition of construction? I thought they had approval authority to do
construction signing with and change traffic controls as permit requirements.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – They may be, but I think that’s for
unanticipated types of situations, right now we’re talking about relegating that to
someone else’s Public Works Department not the City of Orange’s, but giving that
to the City of Anaheim’s Public Works Dept. to decide if we need this today or
don’t need this today. I think there would be a little problem with that also.
Obviously that could be remedied by having somebody from the City involved in
it, but those are the issues we need to look into, I think they could all be
addressed after the motion and just find out how to make it work.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer –On several occasions the Public Works
Dept., and the City Traffic Engineer, made that decision based on block parties
for durations of just a few days.
Commissioner Dick – I think we should go ahead and move forward and if we
have to tweak it later I would be willing to revisit it, but I would hate to have the
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 14
Tape #CTC-28.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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responsibility of slowing up the improvement for the Water Dept. in the City of
Anaheim.
Chairman Beil – What is the bid date on this project?
John Lower, Traffic & Transportation Manager, City of Anaheim – We awarded
the contract last night (6/10/08).
Jeff Nowcki, 2512 Nohl Canyon Rd. (Opposed to parking removal) – At the top of
the tennis courts there is also a hard packed dirt area that is always chained off
that the City of Anaheim always uses for staging activity. Could you that chain
down to allow parking? That would decrease the congestion. That tennis court,
especially during the weekends and in the summer is heavily used, people park all
the way down the street. Also in front of our neighbor Betty’s house is a fire
hydrant, so when she has guests she has no parking whatsoever, unless it’s at the
tennis court or in front of our houses as well, or down the street. She is 80 some
years old herself. If it is at all possible that one section, and I will make sure the
motor home isn’t there anymore, it would decrease the problem we have on that
side of the street otherwise we have to go down White Lantern or Valley Glen to
park.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
ACTION: Grant the parking restrictions as requested by the City of
Anaheim with the understanding that when they do not
require them on the west side, they will not be employed,
and that discretion and good planning will be employed in
order to minimize inconvenience to the residents of the
community.
MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: W. King
Chairman Beil – In regards to the “No Parking” on the northeasterly side of the
street, when construction is over will you be coming back to us with a requ est for
a permanent restriction?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer – That’s our intention, due to the narrow
width. Our standard is 34-36 ft. wide and this is only 29 ft. wide.
Wayne King – Would an appropriate interpretation of your motion be to approve
the request as stated by staff, with the understanding that staff will work with the
City of Anaheim as to appropriate bagging or lack of enforcement of the 8 a.m. –
6 p.m. restrictions whenever possible due to lack of construction traffic?
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 15
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Commissioner Dick – That’s exactly the way I would like to say it.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer – Are we talking about these restrictions for
just these three houses on the west side, or for the entire length of the street?
Wayne Winthers – It could apply to the entire route if the input received by the
City of Anaheim is that they do not need the restriction at all at that particular
time. If they are told we don’t need it in front of just these 3 houses then staff can
act appropriately on that. If they don’t need it in front of 6 ho uses they can act on
that, whatever the impact would be at the time. It would be to leave as much of
the parking available on the street as possible, as often as possible.
VOTE:
MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: W. King
AYES: Unanimous
2. Request for the installation of red curb markings on both sides of the
driveway at 623-639 N. Main St.
Michael Merino
629 N. Main St.
Orange CA 92868
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your
copy.
Chariman Beil – Is the City’s public right-of-way on this side of the street at the
back of curb or is there a parkway?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – I would say we probably have about 5
ft. in back of curb that allows for the installation of the power pole and our signs.
Since this is an industrial area sidewalk is not required. There are some residents
to the south that front onto Main St. in proximity to the intersection of Walnut
Ave. and Orangewood Ave. which is at the next signal, so we would have 500 -600
ft. to the south. There is a sidewalk that runs along the east side of the street but
it ends at the driveway south of the proponent’s property. There is no sidewalk
north until we get to Alvarez, which is the next street to the north.
Chairman Beil – My feeling was one of the big sight distance problems out there
currently is that “Lease” sign. Do we allow lease signs on the public portion of
that frontage?
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 16
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Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – That’s really probably more of a
Planning issue. I would say the sign should be back; this particular sign is just in
back of the curb. The other rental sign is well behind any City right-of-way.
Vice Chairman Lall – If there’s not a tremendous demand for on-street parking,
and the parking lot seems to be more than adequate to handle any traffic created
by the businesses, is there any down side to putting in red curb here just to
maintain that sight distance so nobody parks a truck there?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – No the lane is wide enough but it’s just
at 18 ft., our minimum standard, so it legal to park there. It is an arterial road
and the demand is very light, so to remove 40 ft. of on-street parking in the area
in our opinion would not be a detriment to the area other than having us to
maintain it.
Commissioner Dick – I agree with Mr. Lall and I’m normally loathe to take
parking away from the community but if it’s parking that apparently is not in
heavy demand I am quite comfortable in granting the request of a resident or
business owner for red curb at driveways. Regardless of what we see today we all
know that when you are trying to pull out of the driveway that’s when the 18 -
wheeler will be coming down the street and you won’t be able to see at all. While
we have had no accidents here if we can accommodate requests that cause no
harm then I would ordinarily be prepared to support this. I cannot do so today
because of a personal relationship I have with Mr. Merino so I’m not going to
vote on this.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Brad Harris, 635-7-9 N. Main St. – I wasn’t the one that proposed this red curb
but I think some of frustration is the person who owns these vans you see parked
here in the photograph. We’re getting a lot of misuse of the parking you ’ll note
this Dodge van is owned by a company called “Just In Time” and it’s a delivery
service. They use this parking for advertising. Every day they park a van of one
type and the move it every day, it’s not illegal the way they’re doing it but they’re
making it very unsightly. I don’t want to lose that parking as it is very helpful.
The reason there is ample parking right now is because 635 and 637 N. Main St.
are not occupied, there are no tenants in those units yet. When it is occupied it
will be roughly around 2 – 2.5 parking spots per 1,000 sq. ft. These people park
very close to the driveway which makes it very difficult. I would like to see it
modified a bit to where there would be 10-15 ft. of red curb and retain the
remaining area for parking.
Michael Merino, 629 N. Main St. – This is a safety problem for my staff and
clients and other people pulling out of the driveway to make a left turn , and when
this parking area is abused it is potentially a “T-bone” or a traffic collision
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 17
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possibility and that is more importance to me than the potential loss of parking.
There is still enough parking when all the units are filled without having to utilize
on-street parking. I don’t think we need to wait until there is an accident history
at this location before we take action, I believe we should be proactive and
address the problem and reduce potential of accidents.
Vice Chairman Lall – It sounds like it’s pretty much one person/business causing
the problem.
Michael Merino, 629 N. Main St. – I believe the problem is being caused by
someone not in our complex. There is a business around the corner om Alvarez
St.
Dean Brown, 627 N. Main St. – I have a few more photographs for you look at.
Most of these were taken last week. None of employees or myself have ever had
an accident, yet I have experienced a couple of close calls when trying to pull out
and almost been hit by a small car that we couldn’t see traveling in the slow lane .
We would like the Police Dept. to look into these cars that are parked on the
street with “For Sale” signs on them that are not owned by any of the owners of
this complex or their employees. I will call Lee & Assoc. tomorrow to have them
move the sign back out of the right-of-way. We would like you to paint 20 ft. of
red curb on each side of the driveway.
Chairman Beil – On normal vision zone for driveways what is the distance we
would normally go, does it have to be on both sides of the driveway?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst –I like to put in the amount of red curb
that would be prescribed in the City’s Intersection Sight Distance Ordinance,
because a driveway is much narrower than a public street. Here that would entail
a minimum of 30 ft. and then 1 ft. for every mile per hour the street is posted over
25 MPH; so I think we’re looking at about 40-45 ft. When I shot this photo the
Cherokee is parked about 22 ft. away from the driveway approach so to have a
positive effect we would want to put in at least 30 ft. on the south side of the
driveway, on the north side of the driveway the sight distance is less acute
because you’re looking across the street, we could go with 20-30 ft. on this side.
Commissioner King – I think most cities in Orange County have an ordinance
prohibiting parking a car on a public street and advertising it for sale and the City
of Orange has this same prohibition, although it hasn’t been enforced for quite
some time, because a Federal judge in Los Angeles said that was
unconstitutional.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – The ordinance probably does say you
cannot place your car for sale on the street, however, because of the court case
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 18
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you mentioned we have not been enforcing it. We do our best to encourage
people not to do it when able but I do not believe it to be enforceable.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
ACTION: Modify the item by extending the red curbs 30 ft. north
and south of the entrance of the driveways with no
signage in between that area.
Chairman Beil – Do we have to deny the denial and make a new
recommendation.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney – The denial is just a staff recommendation
I think your motion should be to approve the installation of 30 ft. of red curb for
both north and south.
Chairman Beil – Based on what you were saying would it be 20 ft. to the north
and 30 ft. to the south?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst – We’d like it to be at lease 30 ft. on each
side of the driveway.
ACTION: Approved the installation of 30 ft. of red curb on both
sides of the driveway.
MOTION: J. Pyne
SECOND: N. Lall
AYES: J. Beil, W. King, N. Lall, J. Pyne
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: L. Dick
2. Request for the installation of “NO STOPPING/PARKING ANYTIME”
restrictions on both sides of Glassell St. at Riverdale Ave.
Danett Abbott
101 W. Riverdale Ave.
Orange CA 92865
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your
copy. There was no discussion of this request.
Minutes of a Regular Meeting – City Traffic Commission – June 11, 2008 Pg. 19
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ACTION: Denied the request. Prepare a letter to Ms. Abbott indicating
that if she observes these big trucks parking there excessively every
day then she should contact our Police Dept. and they will send
someone by to look at it.
ACTION: L. Dick
SECOND: J. Pyne
AYES: Unanimous
End of Consideration Items
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
We had requested earlier to bring back information on ethics training, and
Commissioner Dick advised staff he took his training course on-line list past
weekend.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today’s Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic
Commission. Chairman Beil indicated he will not be at the next meeting.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - August 13, 2008
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
pthen@cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744-5536
FAX: (714) 744-5573