Loading...
08-12-2009 - Minutes TC CITY OF ORANGE CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: August 12, 2ooA I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call Present— Commissioners: J. Beil, W. King, N. Lall, M. Lebeau Absent — Commissioners: L. Dick Present —Staff: A. Farahani, D. Allenbach, W. Winthers, Sgt. D.Adams, P. Then C. Approval of Minutes • June io, 2009 ACTION: Continued to the September meeting, as there were not enough eligible Commissioners who had attended the June ioth meeting present. MOTION: SECOND: AYES: ABSTAIN: W. King, N. Lall II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS None this meeting. III. CONSENT CALENDAR None this meeting. C. Clty o� Tape#CTG29.o5 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at(�i4)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. ,' � PubiiC Works Departinent � August'09[N:/Traffic/CTC/2oo9 Minutes] �'�Printed On Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—August i2, 2009 Pg. 2 N. CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1. Request for the installation of additional red curb markings on the south side of the exit driveway serving St. Joseph's Center at 46o S. Batavia St. Margaret Mapes St. Joseph Center S. Batavia St. Orange CA 92868 The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Joel Harkins, S. Batavia St. — Opposed to additional red curb. I'm wondering why they want red curbing, they've got so much red curb there now. As you know St. Joseph's Hospital has done away with their parking structure and I think they are building a new one, so these people either have to park there or they have to come around and park in front of my house. I have a small driveway with 2 cars and if I want to get that first car out I have to park the 2nd car 1/4 mile down, move that car out and then drive it back to my house, then I have to walk down to get the 2nd car. You can get�cars on the west side of the street right now. Sr. Susan Schaad, S. Batavia St. — In favor of red curb. I can tell you why we want more red curb and actually we have a proposal where we can eliminate some and add some in front of the entrance to our house on S. Batavia St. There is a large 3-car red zone and because it's at an entrance we don't need the vision, but up at the 48o end it's very difficult, I have some photos here that demonstrate how difficult it is to see when you're coming out. The two areas on either side of the parking area the red is so faded that people park in it all the time. You could take the 3 spaces from 46o and add them to 44o and that would really help. We have about 90 people living in the residence and over loo employees going in and out, and it is very difficult to see past the cars, especially when you're turning right. Sr. Paula Cooney, S. Batavia St. — In favor of red curb. I'm the administrator of the senior residence and this is the exit directly out of our residence and we do have sisters who are older and can drive. But their reaction time is slower now and we need to have good vision out to the right especially as we're seeing cars coming from the south and going north on Batavia, it's really difficult if those cars are so close. I'd like a little explanation of the difference between the red zone and the suggested posting of a sign, we're not sure what the difference is between those two but if we could extend some from the south side that would be very helpful. � ,City of Tape#CTG29.o5 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at(�i4)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. � Puniic wor��s�eF,ar�in,ent ��p�nted On Rec cled Pa er � August'o9[N:/Traffic/CTC/2oo9 Minutes] y p Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Tra�c Commission—August 12,2009 Pg• 3 Margaret Elliott, E. Washington Ave. — In favor of red curb. I work at the center and I leave from the parking lot, I also drive the residents at different times going in and out of that parking lot, there is a problem with vision and no matter how slow and carefully you exit you creep out into the street so you can see cars coming from the south and are going north. Often times you are creeping out when you think it's clear and there is a car right on top of you before you realize it. I'm surprised at the accident history; I would have thought there would have been a lot more recorded accidents on our side. Sometimes it's the speed but usually it's the vision and you can't anticipate the cars coming up at all. I think where the gentleman is talking about just north of that exit the vision is O.K. even once and a while that's a problem but there is enough vision clearance to see the cars coming, but it's definitively coming from the north and if you're turning to go north it's a real hazard. Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Vice Chairman Lall — There was a suggestion that we eliminate some of the red curb, that could give up to 3 parking spaces and make that a trade off for the 11 ft. we would add. Is that feasible? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analvst — The driveway at 46o S. Batavia St. is the exit only, and then there is a driveway at 44o S. Batavia St. which is the entry drive. In between those two driveways is 33 ft. or basically a little more than one car length. To the north of the 44o driveway there is 19 ft. of red curb then there is a driveway that used to serve 902 Palmyra, however, that driveway really goes nowhere anymore and in between that driveway and the driveway that actually serves the residents at 902 Palmyra there is 12 ft. of red curb. You can see where I have posted the sign, this is 12 ft. then there's 19 ft. and there is 33 ft. here. You could remove this red curb but these are really not legal parking spaces and even though the driveway goes nowhere it is still a driveway and it is illegal to park across a driveway. To remove that 33 ft. or any portion of it would sacrifice sight distance which is at a more acute angle coming out of this exit driveway, so for us it would be just as easy to go ahead and post these signs and then put the END sign where the existing red curb is. It's fairly faded now so we would just let the rest of it fade away; signs last io years, red curbs are repainted annually. Commissioner Kin� — Maybe I do not understand this, but the reasoning to get the red curb is to improve the sight line for people exiting the driveway, is that correct? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst— That's correct. � City�f Tape#C'I'C-29.o5 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at(�i4)744-5536 in this regard,�vance notice is appreciated. nu�iit;wcrks oeuartment �V�p�nted On Rec cled Pa er � August'o9[N:/Traffic/CTC/zoo9 Minutes] y p � Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—August i2,2oog Pg. 4 Commissioner Kin� — If you put in red curb nobody could park here so if you're exiting the driveway you can see further down the street. Why don't we do that all over town where there is a driveway? Everybody has to fight that situation all the time. We would have all red curb because people can't see because people are parked in the street. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — Historically we have always approached these on a per request basis. These cars are legally parked on the street, however,because of the width of the street and the speed of the vehicles on the street this is most likely not enough sight distance for the people exiting this particular driveway. In some cases when we get requests like this where we don't have an ongoing demand for parking, and please keep in mind that with the exception of Tuesday's which are street sweeping days, the street looks pretly much like this throughout the week. In some certain instances where we don't have this particular level of demand and it's an occasional occurrence we would most likely recommend that particular request for red curb be denied. In this particular case because we have an ongoing issue and we have had a request to lengthen this red curb we feel that in this case that since we have a sight distance ordinance that prescribes a certain level of red curb with a request like this we feel it prudent to approve this request. Chairman Beil — What would be the standard length of red curb for a driveway vision zone? I know this is a condition where we've mismatched it based on the proximity of driveways, but what would be a standard length if there were no other adjacent driveways? Dave Allenbach, Trans�ortation Anal,� — Typically the way the ordinance is written, we start with a minimum of 3o ft. and that's for a street that is posted at 25 MPH. We lengthen that "NO PARKING" area one foot for every mile-per- hour the street is posted over 25 MPH. In this case i1 ft. would be adequate to fulfill that section of the ordinance. The ordinance is intended to be used at an intersection, however, in this case the driveways are much narrower than intersections. If you're coming out of Palmyra where you've got a 36 ft. wide street and a 32 ft. curb return, depending on your line of sight you may have an e�ra 4o ft. of additional sight distance given the width of the half-street and the curb return before you start posting the red curb. Since we're dealing with a 24 ft. wide driveway the traffic along the curb is much closer and their line of sight can be more obscured. We felt in this case it would be prudent to go ahead and add that li ft. which is maybe 1/2 car length and post signs instead of painting the curbs,this would be more cost effective. C"� City,�f Tape#CTC-29.o5 of this City'IYaf6c Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at(�i4)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. �ublir,�Tvc;;s Cepartrnent � C7 August'o9[N:/Traffic/CTC/2oo9 Minutes] ��Printed On Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—August i2, 2ooy Pg. 5 Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — We agree with Commissioner King. We are not approving every request we receive for red curb. One of the conditions is the accident history behind it. This location doesn't have an accident history but two things caused us to recommend this action. 1) All the faded red curb, we thought it cost effective to ahead and install the signs and while we were doing that extend it il ft., which we thought would not be a severe impact on the parking; and 2) the nature of the users from that site; and per this request they are elderly people whose reaction time is slower, so we thought it would be bene�cial to do this. Normally we would not recommend the red curb. Vice Chairman Lall — I heard during the testimony that there is a parking lot that has been closed and a parking structure that is being constructed. Is that in fact the case? If so what will that do towards the parking demand on Batavia St.? Chairman Beil — I would like to ask one of the proponents's if you have noticed an increase of on-street parking due to the construction at the hospital? Margaret Mapes — That's at St. Joseph's Hospital and not St. Joseph's Center. We haven't seen a terrible increase of parking, it's pretty consistent. They have an agreement with MainPlace to shuttle people over to the hospital but I don't know about Palmyra and parking there, but there's not so much additional parking demand on Batavia St. Joel Harkins, S. Batavia St. — The blue house there on the left is the Ronald McDonald House; my driveway is just to the left. They tore down the existing parking structure and I believe they're building a new one, and there has been a tremendous amount of parking overflow from the hospital during the construction. I don't know when they're going to be done. If the red zone goes down another 11 ft. and they take the parking off at the other end, and it still has the same parking that would be fine with me. Wavne Winthers, Asst. Citv AttorneX — The only agendized and noticed item is the addition of il ft. of red curb, so if there is any consideration for switching out red curb it could not be done at this meeting. If the Commission cared to continue the item and ask staff to review the entirety of the red curb with suggestions, and it's noticed in that manner so that everyone out there knows that we're talking about both adding and taking off, or reviewing the whole thing, that they have adequate opportunity with notice to come if they want to speak. Commissioner Kin� — Is a new parking structure going to be built? � City t�f Tape#C'I'G29.o5 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at(�i4)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. Pubii�;'dJork;Dtpa �i�ent � � August'o9[N:/Traffic/CTC/2oo9 Minutes] ���Printed On Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—August i2,2009 Pg. 6 Amir Farahani, Citv Traffic En ig neer — As part of the CHOC Hospital Expansion they are tearing down the existing parking lot, but they have provided parking off Main St. just south of LaVeta Ave. and they are shuttling all of their employees from that location to the hospital. I have been out there a couple of times, not for this case, but for other items and I haven't noticed any parking issues moving to Batavia St. as a result of the demolition of the parking structure. But they have just finished the demolition phase. Chairman Seil — I see this simply as the e�ension of the ii ft. which isn't even a whole car length, and the staff recommendation is a good recommendation given the facts about the distances between the driveways and what we can fit in there, and what the driveways are used for. Essentially they are proposing to leave the existing red as it is and add the additional li ft., and rather than having to go out and repaint those red curbs we will erect signs instead, so the maintenance costs will be lower. I think it's a decent proposal and as it's actually on the southerly side of the 46o S. Batavia St. driveway it actually e�rtends that red vision zone for the geometrics on this street, for what is closer to standard for our code. ACTION: Approved the installation of an additional il feet of red curb on the south side of the subject driveway at 48o S. Batavia St. MOTION: J. Beil SECOND: M. Lebeau AYES: J. Beil, N. Lall, M. Lebeau NOES: W. King ABSTAIN: None 2. Request for the installation of additional red curb markings on the north side of the driveway serving Bud's Storage Lot at 1859 N. Glassell St. William Lawson N. Glassell St. Orange CA 92865 The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Commissioner Lebeau — Were any of those traffic collisions resulting from entering or exiting this facility? Dave Allenbach, Trans�ortation Analyst — The closest one occurred in July 200� and it was 145 ft. south of Blueridge but we don't know what side of the street it was on, I believe it was for the northbound lanes so it wasn't the subject �!_,. City of Ta e#CTG2 0 of this Ci Traffic Commission meetin is available for our review. P 9• 5 tY g Y ��`�� �, ._ _ Please contact the Recording Secretary at(�i4)744-5536 in this regard,�vance notice is appreciated. Public Works Departrnen[ ��p�nted On Rec cled Pa er � August'o9[N:/Traffic/CTC/2oo9 Minutes] y p IMinutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—August i2,2009 Pg. � driveway. It may have occurred at the driveway south of the residence which is on the proponent's property. There is also a driveway that goes into the auto body shop directly to the south; it may have been at that location. It was a sideswipe type and it leads us to believe it may have been somebody trying to pull out. The proponent has suggested that this could be used as an acceleration lane, and we would like to point out that if this is approved it is for sight distance only. 5o ft. is not adequate length for an acceleration lane. Commissioner Kin�— What is the zoning here? Dave Allenbach, Trans�ortation Anal,� — I believe it's commercial or light industrial. William Lawson, N. Glassell St. — In favor of red curb. I requested this because of the traffic in this area, it all stems from speed. It's a 45 MPH zone. It's hard for my customers to get out, there's also an issue of Blueridge traffic trying to rush out and there's a lot of traffic coming from those industrial buildings across the street and they never look across at us. I'm proposing the red curb; signs in this area really don't work. You can put NO PARKING signs all over and they're still parking there all the time, day after day. The red curb stops it a little, we've had semi's park in front of the house and also to the south which is NO PARKING all the way down to Taft Ave. and you can't see around them. I've asked them to move and they just shine me on, it's gotten to the point where they park in front of my driveway so I can't even get in. My customers typically have a vehicle and sometimes it's up to 5o ft. long with a trailer behind and when they start to pull out they're trying to look around all these vehicles to the south and they can't see. If they just wait there are enough gaps in the traffic, the lights are set pretty well to let them out. It's difficult for my tenants to merge. I think the accident was from someone trying to pull out of Preferred Auto Body which is just ne� to the green house, there's always trouble for people trying to pull out of there, it's hard for them to make that corner when cars are parked and it's supposed to be posted for NO PARKING. Chairman Beil — Most of vehicles you see parking there where are they going? William Lawson, N. Glassell St. — Most of the people are from Preferred Auto which is the property south of us, they are employees and they don't have any employee parking available on their property. Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Comrnission for further discussion and a motion. ACTION: Approved the installation of 28 ft. of red curb on the north side of the subject driveway. E=`� City of Tape#CTC-2g.o5 of this City T`raffic Commission meeting is available for your review. �ir_:;, Please contact the Recording Secretary at(�i4)744-5536 in this regard,advance notice is appreciated. � r�uhiic works oepartment ��pflnted On Rec cled Pa er � August'o9[N:/Traffic/CTC/2oo9 Minutes] y p Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—August i2,2ooy Pg. � MOTION: M. Lebeau SECOND: N. Lall AYES: Unanimous NOES: ABSTAIN: ��������������� End of Consideration Items ���������������� V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS None this month. Chairman Beil — I requested Dave investigate the ioo block of N. Orange St. Somebody painted green curb on Orange St. almost all the way to Maple Ave., all around there, and it's also signed for 3-hour parking. So the paint and the signs are in conflict and that needs to be investigated. VI. ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda the City Tra�c Commission meeting was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission. The ne�ct meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled: 5:3o P.M. Wednesday - September i6, 2009 Respectfully submitted, CITY OF ORANGE Phyllis Then,Recording Secretary � Traffic Engineering Division ��then��citvoforan�e.or� CITY OF ORANGE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT 300 E.CHAPMAN AVENUE oxatvGE Cn 92866 Px: (714)744-5536 F�: (7i4)744-5573 ''"' ��ty'°� Tape#CTC-29.o5 of this City Traftic Commission meeting is available for your review. x�'�, Please contact the Recording Secretary at(�i4)744-5536 in this regard,�vance notice is appreciated. �ubiic works�epa�unent ��p�nted On Rec cled Pa er � August'o9[N:/Traffic/CTC/2oo9 Minutes] y p