HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-14-2009 - Minutes TC CITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: October i�, 2oog
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present— Commissioners: J. Beil, L. Dick,W. King, N. Lall, M. Lebeau
Absent—Commissioners: None
Present—Staff: A. Farahani, D.Allenbach,W.Winthers, Sgt. D.Adams, P.Then
C. Approval of Minutes
• June io, 2009
ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION: M. Lebeau
SECOND: J. Beil
AYES: J. Beil, L. Dick, M. Lebeau
ABSTAIN: W. King, N. Lall
• August 1z, 2009
ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION: N. Lall
SECOND: M. Lebeau
AYES: J. Beil,W. King,N. Lall, M. Lebeau
ABSTAIN: L. Dick
• September i6, 2009
Meeting canceled due to lack of quorum.
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
Claudia Ferraiz, N. Grand St. — Spoke on need to install speed hump, or reducing the
speed limit on Grand St. to reduce neighborhood speeding due to increased traffic from
the new dorms at Walnut and Center.
Jason Ferraiz, N. Grand St. — The signal at Walnut/Glassell needs a protected left-turn
phase. Between 2-4 pm, and any type of function at the University or the high school
creates a horrible back-up of traffic, plus the 90o space parking structure exits onto
Walnut adding all those cars as well.
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III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this meeting.
N. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
i. Request for the installation of an intersection vision zone on the north side of
Walnut Ave. at Wa�eld St.
Larry Deckert
E. Walnut Ave.
Orange CA 9286�
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Commissioner Lebeau — The correctible accident, was that a westbound car on Walnut
being struck by a southbound car on Wa�eld St.?
Dave Allenbach,Transportation Analyst—Yes,that is correct.
Commissioner Lebeau—That is the traffic collision you said would have been correctible,
so that would be to the east side of the intersection?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Anal,�t — Yes, that is correct. There is a driveway right
at the corner on the east side of the intersection, it's about i4 ft. wide, so there is some
sight distance there, also I would like to point out the westbound direction is the more
acute line of sight. The accident occurred at i2:2o p.m. During that time at least during
the times we were in the area, parking on the street was extremely light so without
further detail it is unclear whether there was a vehicle parked there or if one or both
motorists were not paying attention prior to the accident.
Mark Barbour, E. Walnut Ave. — In favor of time limit parking, but in consideration of
the other residents on Walnut Ave. as this is really affecting, we have a major parking
problem there. We have a major parking problem in the evening. Whatever you do on
Walnut greatly affects the homeowners and residents at i8o5, i8i5 and i825. Right now
I don't believe there's any parking at 505 and i9o5. The problem we all have in this area
as homeowners, and I don't believe the City is addressing it, or is willing to address it, is
Oak St. Oak St. is a rental street has caused major problems to all the homeowner's
going up and down Wayfield, and me, as the first non-rental property away from Oak St.
They are now parking from Oak St. half-way down on Wayf'ield St. It is actually
impossible to park anywhere on Wa�eld St. These are all residents, and I've
documented it, these are all residents/renters that are parking there and walking half-
way up the block and all the way over to get to Oak St. The problem the city is not willing
to address, in my opinion, is that Oak St. is overpopulated. You have 2, 3 up to 4 families
sometimes living in these apartments. Whatever you do on that street,like if you restrict
the parking overnight, those people will now start parking even further and more onto
Wa�eld St. So as a person who has a property on the other side, it is a major issue and
we're so frustrated with what's going on there.
Chairman Beil — You've indicated that you're in favor of the staff recommendation to
deny the request, is that correct?
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Mark Barbour, E. Walnut Ave. — Well no, I think you were talking about a restriction of
parking on Walnut Ave., correct?
Chairman Beil — Essentially the proponent asked for some red curb to create a vision
zone which would actually take away a few parking places on Walnut Ave.
Mark Barbour, E. Walnut Ave. — I'm generally in favor of that position. The only
problem is that as soon as you do that we cause a major problem down the rest of
Wa�eld St. and around the other properties there. This is just one little thing that
relates to the entire area and somehow the Traffic Commission has got to deal with Oak
St. In general there is no enforcement of existing codes for the housing and that is
causing the problem.
Chairman Beil—That is not a Traffic Commission item that is under our jurisdiction.
Mark Barbour, E. Walnut Ave. — You guys mentioned it in your report earlier, he just
mentioned that the problem of the extra cars parking on Walnut Ave. is related to the
demand for street parking from Oak St. I would like to see some level of restriction but I
also do not want to inconvenience the homeowners on the other side of Walnut. There is
a problem; I have a problem turning into my driveway in the evening.
Chairman Beil — So are you in support of or are you opposed to the item at hand for the
red curb?
Mark Barbour, E. Walnut Ave. — I would say I am in support of the red curbs.
Chairman Beil — We are aware of that neighborhood issue. We dealt with the Wa�eld
parking issue with a parking permit program, no overnight parking issue on the north
side of Walnut on Wa�eld, it's been about a year.
Mark Barbour, E. Walnut Ave. —Your solution on N. Wayf'ield St. makes it so there is no
overnight parking,which is good.
Mark Winthers. Sr.Asst. Citv AttorneX— That item is not before the Commission and we
should not make comments at this time.
Larry Deckert, E. Walnut Ave. - I support this request. If I could have Mr. Allenbach
bring up the other photo showing the outline of the streets. As you're coming down
Wa�eld St., I did not ask for red curb at 505 on the east side, I only asked for one
parking spot on the northeast side and possibly around the curve radius, people are
parking there at night. He says you don't see much traffic there but from Wa�eld the
curve radius all the way to Tustin St. is loaded with cars every night. I've almost been hit
coming out of Wa�eld 2 or 3 times going east to get to my house, you cannot see when
they are parked all the way to the curve radius and at times around the curve radius. You
cannot see without pulling out onto Walnut and when you're talking about pulling out
onto Walnut which has from 4,000-�,00o cars a day coming and he said there was only i
accident they had in the last year, well I don't know but some must not have been
reported and I think I can recall at least 3 this year at Wa�eld St. and Walnut Ave. I
also know Mr. Barbour has lived there 5 years and my other neighbor was hit turning
into his driveway parking in the bicycle lane, they passed him in the bicycle lane turning
into his driveway and they found him at fault for failure to yield. Now he also said it's
posted for No Parking in the bicycle lane, that is correct, but you can go any day of the
week and you're going to find cars lined up through that bicycle lane at �-9 and 2-4 at
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whatever time it's posted for No Parking. They are there and every night they are parked
here, I didn't address it in my letter on Wa�eld going towards Palm, they are parked
around the curve radius on that. You can seem them coming down the overpass of the
freeway. When you're trying to turn and go across you can't see with cars parked to go
west on Walnut, you're taking your chance to get hit. I didn't address anything for the
east side; we don't have any parking there. The people on the other side of Wayf'ield on
that side of the street did have that, they brought it to you and now there's No Parking
from ii pm to �am. So they don't have a problem there. Now they're parked on the west
side all the way around the curve radius. I always thought it was illegal to park in the
curve radius but I guess as long as they don't get their car in part of the wheelchair ramp
it's not illegal. Even painting the curve radius red would be a help.
John Barnes, E. Walnut Ave. — I have a rental on the 50o block of N. Wa�eld St. I'm
familiar with Dave, he's the one that came in and started all that permit parking on
Wayf'ield. All the people from Oak St. were going down there. That caused everybody to
move to this street and park, you can see them walking up and down the street just to
park over there. I've heard that cars were getting broken into all the time over there. I
can't park in front of my house, especially when I have guests over because it's loaded
with cars. I think I'm for the red curb but that will restrict us as well. If there is a way we
can do resident parking right there?
Sylvia Esparza, N. Wa�eld St. — If you're coming east on Walnut and making a right
onto Wa�eld St. there is absolutely no way you can see. Unfortunately this picture was
taken early in the morning and that's not when you see things. In fact you need to be out
there at various times to see what occurs there. You come out from Wayf'ield you cannot
see a car coming, and there are accidents there. As far as the parlang, I have a problem
with it because a lot of it is Oak St., they come and park on your street. The other day I
tried to park in front of my house to save a spot so my daughter and husband could park
in our driveway, I parked there and I was sticking out in my neighbor's driveway and I
was hoping and praying they would see my car and not hit me coming out, because a
person had parked half-way between my house so that no other car could park in front of
or behind it, that's not right. When you come home at the end of the day you want to be
able to park at your own house, and we go through this daily, every day we go through
those things. Those people that live on Walnut, its unfortunate that they have no
parking. It's terrible,you can't really invite guests over because there's nowhere for them
to park. Our neighbors can't park there either because there are people there constantly,
at all hours of the day and night. I see it right out my window. Maybe the thing to do is
the zoning and a parking permit type of thing.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — I know this is a complex area and a lot of the opinions I've heard from
the residents is the same opinion that many of us have, I loathe taking away parking. It's
a controversial issue particularly in areas where we know there are dwellings units that
are causing the parking issues. The issue before us appears to be a vision zone
enhancement, and the staff recommendation as well as the letter are recommending red
curb.
Commissioner Dick— On the curve as alluded to, is it legal or illegal to park there?
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Dave Allenbach, Trans�ortation Analyst— Parking around a curve return where you have
a sidewalk on both sides of the street is basically parking across a crosswalk, an
unmarked crosswalk. There is a crosswalk implied at every intersection where there is a
sidewalk on both sides. So technically yes it is illegal. It's almost impossible to park a
car in this area without being in the intersection and hanging out into a lane of traffic.
But as one gentleman has alluded, when this happens it is probably late at night, and I
don't think they get caught on that too often. The first picture we have was taken at�:oo
a.m. and there were vehicles out there in violation of the parking restriction on Walnut.
If we do anything at all, although we're talking about removing parking for 2 vehicles but
if the area is as impacted as the residents have said those 2 vehicles are not going to go
away, they are just going to go somewhere else. During the day we have very minimal
parking demand in the area, so we don't have an ongoing parking problem that can be
solved by installing red curb. We don't have a reported consistent accident problem that
could be corrected if we had red curb here. So from our perspective we're reluctant to
remove parking where we don't have an ongoing problem, because as the residents have
said we're just going to push this problem further into the adjoining neighborhood,
which we don't want to see.
Commissioner Dick— If I heard it correctly the bicycle lane is posted as No Parking?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst —Yes. As you can see from the edge-line, there
are signs posted every i2o — 20o ft. On the west side of the intersection the sign posted
there says, "NO PAR.KING BETWEEN �-9 AM and 2-4 PM", this is to allow the children
going to and from school to ride their bikes adjacent to the curb and not have to
maneuver around parked vehicles.
Commissioner Dick — The goal was to try to get the vision by eliminating the parking at
the curve, among other things, and that there was a problem with parking in the bicycle
lanes, but I'm assuming those vehicles were parked other than the excluded times or
someone would have called the Police Dept. Is that an accurate assumption, or is that an
inaccurate assumption?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Anal,� — There were vehicles parked in the evening
hours and at mid-day,but during the course of our investigation it was basically like this,
there was nothing parked adjacent to the intersection, and we were there early in the
morning, mid-day, mid-afternoon, at 5:3o pm and while there was some demand there
was not the heavy demand we witnessed and certainly no one was parked adjacent to the
subject intersection.
ACTION: Denied the request for an intersection vision zone on the north side of
Walnut Ave. at Wa�eld St.
MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: W. King
AYES: Unanimous
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
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IMinutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission—October 14, 2oo�j Pg. 6 Pg. �
2. Request for the installation of"2-Hour" time limit parking on the north side of iissioner may
Maple Ave. and the east side of Grand St., adjacent to the Orange Community Christian o vote in this
Church frontage. ig that comes
Bonnie Luther
�sident of the
Old Community Christian Church
N. Grand St. , is there any
Orange CA 92866
Commissioner Kin� — This is in the Old Towne section where you have to have a permit thing in our
to park, is that right? elieve so but
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — That's correct. Because the church is an
institutional use they do not qualify for permits. a who has a
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
iit. That you
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Gary Luther, Old Community Christian Church — The reason we've made the request is rking is only
the impact by the faculty and students at the University. We have appealed to the �gh Saturday,
University to do something to cause their people not to park there, we've even area, so if a
distributed hand-bills saying please don't park here, there is off-street parking for you up
at the campus. Finally Dr. Doti's Administrative Assistant suggested that it really should t is the time
be green curb to restrict parking maybe 3 hours, that's the average time for people to
come and go for their classes; that's why we made this request. We asked for 3 hours
because that was the University's suggestion and it seemed reasonable to us. 2 hours in a permit
would also serve the purpose. e Police may
a are visiting
Commissioner Lebeau— So you would not object to 2 hours? �ake about 5
Gary Luther, Old Community Christian Church —We would appeal for 3 hours. It's only
for Monday through Friday, the University's not open on weekends so the green curb �just certain
isn't needed on the weekends,just on Monday through Friday.
Brian Lochrie, E Ma�le Ave. — I'm right across the street from the Chapel. I would ask urs a day.
that you consider an exemption for those of us who live in the area who have parking �n the north
passes. If you can pass the 3 hours time limit it appears that the goal of this is to prevent � the Orange
Chapman students from using this for parking,but I would like you to recognize that this
is a residential area, and as a resident who lives right across the street from the Chapel I
park there frequently, and if you look at the pictures there is usually parking available in rs because if
that area, especially on Grand and Maple. ; minutes, or
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
ACTION: A motion that you don't do anything. Don't deny and don't approve
the request. hat are used
MOTION: W. King
Motion dies for lack of second.
Commissioner Dick — I am going to abstain from the vote due to a long standing
friendship with one of the speakers.
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5. Request for the installation of an intersection vision zone on the east side of
Prospect St. south of Almond Ave.
Jim Johnson
E.Almond Ave.
Orange CA 92869
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
There was no public discussion of the request.
ACTION: Denied the request.
Chairman Beil—The proponent lives on Almond Ave.?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — She lives east of the intersection of Olympia
and Almond, so he exits at this location every day.
MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: W. King
AYES: Unanimous
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
6. Request to e�tend the existing red curb at the exit driveway serving St. Paul's
Lutheran Church on Canal St.by i8 feet.
Henry Doeding
St. Paul's Lutheran Church
N. Canal St.
Orange CA 92865
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Commissioner Lebeau —What is the speed limit on Canal St.?
Dave Allenbach,Transportation Anal�st—3o MPH.
Commissioner Lebeau — If this vision zone were to be approved today what would be the
minimum length of the vision zone?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Anal�t — The vision zone would be approx. 35 ft. if
there were no existing red curb.
Chairman Beil — Would there be a problem just extending that to make it 35 ft. since the
existing is 2�ft. and they're asking for an extension of i8 ft.?
Dave Allenbach, Trans�ortation Analyst — No, it should not have a negative impact on
the church to the south or any area residents.
Chairman Beil - To have a standard vision zone if there wasn't one there we'd put it in
and it would be 8 ft. longer, right?
Dave Allenbach, Trans�ortation Anal,�—That's correct.
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Commissioner Dick — Is there any traffic consideration that we should have by virtue
that there is a school there as well?
Dave Allenbach Trans�ortation Analyst — I don't believe, although maybe parents are
dropping their kids off at curbside, however, I think they are pulling in to the parking lot
to drop their children off. We were out there in the afternoon while they were picking up
and we saw no one there parking on the street during those times.
Commissioner Dick — We have a letter from a member of the church and I assume he is
speaking on behalf of the church.
Amir Farahani City Traff'ic Engineer — Mr. Henry Doeding called me yesterday that he
was not aware of the meeting schedule and he was sorry he was unable to make it as he
had other pre-set meetings he had to attend.
Commissioner Dick—I move to delay this to neXt month.
Chairman Beil — We have a motion to delay it. I think it's important to hear from an
o�cial at the church. I'd also like to ask them about standardizing the vision zone to 35
ft. as an option. Let's see if we can move this to next month. Can we pre-approve the
standardization as a motion but if he doesn't like it?
Wavne Winthers, Sr. Asst. City Attorney — You can approve whatever you wanted to
approve and then he could appeal it if he wasn't happy with the decision. Or you could
continue it to the next meeting. Based on what's on the Agenda you can approve
whatever length of red curb you want,that is within your purview.
ACTION: I'd like to offer a substitute motion to standardize the driveway
vision zone to 35 ft. that staff would ordinarily use in this situation and
extend it to that 35 ft.length.
Commissioner Kin� — Are we still going to postpone it to the next meeting or is the
motion before this date?
Commissioner Dick— I believe the intent is to take an action tonight to standardize it.
MOTION: M. Lebeau
SECOND: N. Lall
AYES: Unanimous
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
��������������� End of Consideration Items ����������������
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting—City Traffic Commission—October i4, 2oc,y Pg. u
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
Wayne Winthers, Sr. Asst. Citv AttorneX — Reported on the City Council's recent action
to deny the ordinance for restricting pedestrian crossings on Katella Ave. at the Stadium.
Council wasn't initially in favor of that and upon further review it was determined that
anyone doing that would in violation of"jaywalking". Originally some believed there was
a distance requirement but in actuality there is not, so you really have 2 signalized
intersections at Douglas Rd. and Struck Ave. so crossing between there is a violation of
the Vehicle Code. Last night the Council denied the ordinance, but they did approve the
installation of "USE CROSSWALK" and "NO CROSSING THE STREET" signs within
that range. This would be a jaywalking violation of the Vehicle Code and not an
additional ordinance under the OMC. That was approved last night.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City TrafFc Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traf�c
Commission.
The ne�meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5�3o P.M.
Wednesday - November 18, 2009
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then,Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
then a�ci oforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E.CHAPMAN AVENUE
oRnrrGE cn 92866
Px: (714)744-5536
F�: (714)744-5573
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