01-06-1998 Council Minutes SpecialAPPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL ON JANUARY 27, 1998
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
OF A SPECIAL MEETING
ORANGE, CALIFORNIA
January 6, 1998
The City Council of the City of Orange, California convened on January 6, 1998 at 5:00 P.M. in
a Regular Meeting in the Council Chambers, 300 E. Chapman Avenue, Orange, California.
5:00 P.M. SESSION
1. OPENING
1.1 PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG
Led by Mayor pro tern Slater
1.2 ROLL CALL
PRESENT - Murphy, Slater, Mayor Coontz, Spurgeon, Alvarez ABSENT -
None 1.3
PRESENTATIONS/ ANNOUNCEMENTS/ INTRODUCTIONS - None 1.4 PROCLAMATIONS -
None 2. CONSENT CALENDAR 2.
1 Declaration of
City Clerk, Cassandra J. Cathcart, declaring posting of City Council agenda of the special
meeting of January 6, 1998 at Orange Civic Center, Taft Branch Library at 740 E.
Taft Avenue, Police facility at 1107 North Batavia, Eisenhower Park Bulletin Board and summarized
on Time Warner Communications; all of said locations being in the City
of Orange and freely accessible to members of the public at least 24 hours before commencement of
said special meeting.ACTION: Accepted Declaration of
Agenda Posting and authorized its retention as a public record in the
Office of the City Clerk.MOTION - Murphy SECOND - Slater
AYES - Murphy, Slater,
Mayor Coontz, Spurgeon,
Alvarez Item 2.1 was approved as recommended.
END OF CONSENT CALENDAR 3. REPORTS FROM
MAYOR COONTZ - None 4.
REPORTS FROM COUNCILMEMBERS - None 5. REPORTS FROM
BOARDS, COMMITTEES, AND COMMISSIONS - None PAGE
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CITY COUNCIL MINUTES January 6, 1998
6. REPORTS FROM CITY MANAGER - None 7.
ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS - None 8. LEGAL
AFFAIRS - None 9. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
Mayor Coontz gave
the following statement for the record:The purpose of
tonight's closed session is to hear a report from the City Manager concerning a personnel matter and
a report from the Personnel Director concerning upcoming labor negotiations with various
City bargaining units. The City has a legal responsibility to conduct an investigation of the
charges which have been made. It has a legal responsibility to conduct the investigation in a
private manner and is not currently in a position to provide details of any personnel investigation and
will not do so tonight. To do otherwise would jeopardize the integrity of the
investigation and be unfair to the employee involved. The City will not be reporting on any
action from tonight's Closed Session. If there are questions about this, the City Attorney can speak
to this later."The following people
spoke in favor of Police Chief Robertson returning to his position as Police Chief:Carole Walters,
534
N. Shaffer St., indicated the last time she spoke in support of Chief Robertson, the next
day someone tampered with her car. Ms. Walters requested through the Mayor to direct
the following question to the City Attorney: Mayor Coontz should not vote on any decision on
Chief Robertson because Jim Blair was going to help Chief Robertson financially and Mayor
Coontz went to his wife to stop this support. As City Attorney, if Council does anything wrong
and you are aware of it, your license can be taken away.Mayor Coontz denied
the allegation.The City Attorney
commented this contention was heard before and is based upon hearsay presentation, and would
not make a decision that the Mayor has exhibited any bias which would not give her
the opportunity to render a decision in this matter. At this time the Mayor is not being asked to
make a decision.Ms. Walters further
commented the City Manager should not make any decisions because he still has a conflict
of interest with the District Attorney that has not been cleared yet. This whole issue is about
the trash investigation. If a choice were to be made between Chief Robertson and the City Manager,
Ms. Walters would chose Chief Robertson.Kathy and Brian
McCaleb, 2603 Brookside, commented on an L.A. Times article which reported that serious
crime in Orange County had dropped, and it reflects credit on the hard work of the
men and women of OPD. What distinguished Orange and the other big winners from the rest
of the County was the best performers had Community Oriented Policing Programs PAGE 2 r
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES January 6, 1998
9. ORAL PRESENTATIONS (Continued)
in place during that year. These programs get results which citizens want even if some change
resistant policemen don't. Community oriented policing is here to stay.
Tom Landig, 8017 E. Eucalyptus Trail, commented he had worked on past campaigns to get rid
of the old boy network.
Nick Lall, 6231 Mabury Ave., commented relieving the Police Chief in the middle of the trash
investigation was an unusual action. The City has not done this before with any work place
complaint. Everyone involved in the trash issue has either gotten money or not gotten money
from the Hambarians. Ifit is Council's decision to dismiss Chief Robertson, and there are good
compelling reasons that benefit the entire community, then this information should be brought
before the public because the appearances are wrong throughout the investigation. If the City
Manager cannot work with Chief Robertson, then he would rather see John Robertson as Police
Chief and the City search for another City Manager.
Deborah Hoffman, Jaramillo, Hoffman & Associates, 1851 E. First St. #1060, Santa Ana,
attorneys for Chief Robertson, remarked that Police Chief Richards had advised police personnel
that Chief Robertson will be terminated tonight. Police Captain Hernandez has also told Police
Personnel that Chief Robertson will be cleaning out his desk tomorrow morning. If the right
decision is made by Council, the City will be healed. Ms. Hoffman seconded the comments
made by Carole Walters concerning Mr. Blair and the funding of Mr. Robertson's defense. If the
Chief is terminated tonight there will be no basis and no evidence has been produced. The
person making the report to the Council regarding Chief Robertson is at the heart ofthis
controversy.
The City Attorney commented he found it puzzling that the Chiefs attorneys would make
statements of termination. He has apprised these attorney from the beginning that they would
receive all evidence utilized for any proposed discipline. They are fully aware of the
administrative process whereby the Chief can respond to any allegations and tonight's meeting is
not about a final action of discipline. The Attorneys and the Chiefwill receive copies of the
report. No final action will be taken tonight.
Adele Graves, address on file, commented that Lou Walsh had spoken to Ms. Graves saying he
was going to get Chief Robertson and get him good. Lou Walsh has been with the Police
Department for over twenty-five years and knows where the bodies are buried. He
has intelligence files on Council and the City Manager, and someone has a lot to lose. Mr. Walsh
is a strong financial supporter of certain Councilmembers. Ms. Graves began to discuss an
oral board. The City Attorney interrupted indicating if someone related what had happened on
an oral board, it is a violation of the privacy rights of the employee, and instructed this matter not
be heard in this forum. Ms. Graves conceded to not discuss this
issue.Ms. Graves continued in her opinion, the only one expendable at this time is the City
Manager who has a conflict of interest on the trash investigation and should recuse himself. Ms.
Graves PAGE
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CITY COUNCIL MINUTES January 6, 1998
9. ORAL PRESENTATIONS (Continued)
would chose Chief Robertson over the City Manager. If the Council decides to fire John
Robertson for reasons other than the community benefit, be prepared for an immediate recall.
Robb Morris, address on file, commented on the leaking of the affidavit, the District Attorney's
Office made the statement that they did not tell the Councilor anyone else that it was not a
crime. There were two possible crimes with the leaking of that affidavit: 1) probably contempt
of court if a sealed affidavit were to be leaked and 2) possible reason why it might have been
leaked. The Bonneville case is coming up this month and if 10% of what is in that affidavit is
true, the City is in for a heavy downfall of money. Mr. Morris asked why there was so much
action going on between the Acting Chief and a Captain supposed to be involved in an
investigation when both were sitting drunk when Officer Wade was shot.
The City Attorney indicated it was not appropriate to accuse people of being drunk.
Mayor Coontz commented personal accusations are not acceptable at the podium.
Mara Brandman, 7319 Equitation Way, expressed concern that the City Manager did not recuse
himself on this issue. Ms. Brandman reviewed Chief Robertson's achievements and
contributions to the City. The Chief implemented the Community Policing Program resulting in
the largest crime drop for any Orange County city by 50%. Orange is now the second safest
large city in Orange County, sixth safest in the State and eighth in the nation.
Shannon Tucker, 556 E. Culver, expressed concerns regarding the Closed Session, and
commented that if the Chief is terminated especially during the trash investigation where some of
the Council are implicated Ms. Tucker will take action.
Janine Ingram, Executive Director of the YWCA, 146 N. Grand, expressed concern over the
current status of the Police Department and Council's decision regarding what role the Police
Department will play in the City. Police employees have every right to volunteer and give to
charity. Ms. Ingram spoke for Jennifer Rynes, Chief Executive Officer of the YMCA, who has
valued the support and commitment of volunteers from the Police Department.
Pam Pratt, 1143 E. Oakmont, wrote a letter on December 9th to the District Attorney regarding
the leaking of the affidavit not being a crime which was based on comments made by the City
Attorney. A letter was received from Jan Nolan which indicated based on the evidence she had
there is no evidence to suggest when the affidavit was leaked. It could have been leaked by the
court. Absent any evidence in this regard, there is no violation of Penal Code Section 148 or 168
no matter who leaked it. Ms. Pratt asked the following questions: 1) Does that mean a Police
Officer would have the authority to continue to look at the set of circumstances to see if there is
any evidence to suggest otherwise? No response from the District Attorney's Office. 2) Does a
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9. ORAL PRESENTATIONS (Continued)
Police Officer have the authority to investigate a set of facts which he believes may lead him to
the discovery that a crime has been committed? In Orange County, what role does the District
Attorney's Office play in the determination of when a Police Officer has to stop looking for
evidence regarding a crime surrounding a set of facts.
George Jaramillo, Jaramillo, Hoffman & Associates, 1851 E. First Street, #1060, Santa Ana, CA
92705, commented on people speaking out and when there is a chance for rebuttal, they are shut
down because they are not at a microphone. We cannot live with a gargantuan unbridled lack for
people's rights in the constitution. If Chief Robertson did something worthy of termination then
it would have come out.
Speaking in a neutral position:
Bob Bennyhoff, 10642 Morada Dr., remarked he has been silent in this case because he did not
know a lot of details, but now knows a great many details. The case deals with certain specific
acts and the hostile work place is a tough act. It protects the accused and accuser. When this is
over, some ofthese statements made here will be silly. There is hysteria and Mr. Bennyhoffhas
learned not to get too excited until he learns what the evidence is.
Point of Order requested by Carole Walters. Mayor Coontz allowed Ms. Walters to speak:
Ms. Walters commented she was scared because the Police Officer that she filed a formal
complaint on is sitting in the audience. A letter from Acting Police Chief Richards indicated a
Police Officer can do anything to them they want when they are off duty. Ms. Walters wanted to
make sure the Police Officer stays away from her and asked for protection. A letter will be sent
with everything that has happened to Ms. Walters to a judge.
Mayor Coontz commented a lot of accusations were heard, but it is the responsibility of the
Council to be honorable and do the job they promised when they took the Oath of Office.
The City Attorney remarked there is an administrative process which has to be followed. There
will be no action tonight. If discipline is proposed there is an administrative process. Until the
process is complete, there will not be any statement to make.
If no discipline is proposed, the action terminates and the Chief returns. If discipline is proposed,
the Chief will be provided a notice of what the allegations are and all documents that were relied
upon by the decision maker in giving that notice. The Chiefwill get an opportunity to respond
via another meeting before the decision maker, and only after that opportunity to respond and
after reviewing all the documentation and being advised by Counsel will a final decision be
made. Council will only get involved in the decision if the recommendation is dismissal.
Council's approval is not required by the City's ordinance unless that is the recommended
decision.
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CITY COUNCIL MINUTES January 6, 1998
9. ORAL PRESENTATIONS (Continued)
Regarding the dissemination of information to the public: 1) If there is a recommendation for
discipline and 2) Everyone has to remember the right to privacy with this information lies with
the employee, not with the employer. The employer cannot abrotate unilaterally the employee's
right to privacy. How much the public ever knows about this matter is largely up to the
employee and not the employer.
10. RECESS
The City Council recessed at 6:00 p.m. to a Closed Session for the following purposes:
Public employee discipline, release and dismissal pursuant to Government Code Section 54957.
Conference with Labor Negotiator pursuant to Government Code Section 54957.6
City Negotiator: Personnel Director
Employee Organization: Police Association, Police Management, Orange City Firefighters, Fire
Management
11. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION
SECOND
AYES
Murphy Spurgeon
Murphy, Slater,
Mayor Coontz, Spurgeon, Alvarez The City Council
adjourned at 10:00 p.m.W-~CASSANDRA J.
ATHCART,
CMC CITY CLERK JOANNE
COONTZ MAYOR
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