HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 - January 7
Planning Commission Minutes
January 7,2008
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Minutes
Planning Commission
City of Orange
7 January 2008
Monday - 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bonina, Imboden, Merino, Steiner and Whitaker
None
STAFF
PRESENT:
Ed Knight, Assistant Planning Director
Chad Ortlieb, Senior Planner
Gary Sheatz, Assistant City Attorney
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
ADMINISTRATIVE SESSION:
Chair Imboden opened the Administrative Session @ 6:35 p.m.
Chair Imboden reviewed the Agenda with the Commissioners.
Consent Calendar:
Commissioner Steiner noted a spelling error on page 18 of the December 3, 2007
minutes.
New Hearings Item No.2:
Chair Imboden asked if Mr. Sheatz would be presenting this item? Mr. Sheatz stated yes
he would be presenting the item.
Chair Imboden stated there would be questions from the Commission.
Commissioner Steiner had a concern on any potential regulation on the CUP regarding
the number of people permitted at a job center. He was looking for a formula that could
be used to determine the number permitted and would this number be regulated, and was
there a provision in the regulation related to the lot size?
Commissioner Bonina asked if there was an age requirement?
Mr. Sheatz stated they had not ironed out the nuts and bolts of the operation. There was
not an occupancy limit established at this time. There was no age limit in the Ordinance;
it would be up to the job center personnel to police under age job applicants. The
entitlements allowed them to have a job center and the ordinance covered the land use
Issues.
Commissioner Bonina asked if there was a distance requirement, if there would be a
minimum distance requirement from another job center?
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Mr. Sheatz stated as this was a CUP, it would be determined by the provisions of the
CUP and the proximity of other job centers. There was not a distance requirement.
Commissioner Steiner asked ifthere was another job center in the area would another one
be allowed and how would that be regulated?
Mr. Sheatz stated if another job center came in, for example in a strip mall, they would
first be required to establish a site plan, ensuring there would be safe ingress/egress, the
lot size was adequate and that it would not be adjacent to another job center. The traffic
issue was one of the requirements that needed to be submitted in the site plan. It would
be difficult to place two job centers in a small strip mall.
Commissioner Bonina asked if there was a parking requirement?
Mr. Sheatz stated no, not per se, it would be vetted out in the site plan. Generally at a job
center people were dropped off, came by bike or walked to the center. There was not a
potential for a requirement. The ordinance addressed having an adequate area for
applicants to congregate making sure that they would not be taking up parking spaces of
the businesses in the center. He pointed out that Section C4, on page No. 3 of the
Ordinance dealt with parking in regards to the site plan.
Chair Imboden stated he would have questions regarding the language in that section.
New Hearings Item. No.3:
Commissioner Merino stated he would have questions for the applicant.
Chair Imboden stated he would also have questions and there would be discussion on the
item and he would look for a full reading.
Administrative Session closed @ 6:50
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: None
ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN: None
CONSENT ITEM
(1) APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE REGULAR MEETING
OF December 3, 2007.
Commissioner Steiner made a motion to approve the December 3, 2007 minutes with
correction as noted.
SECOND:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
Chair Imboden
Commissioners Bonina, Imboden, Merino, Steiner and Whitaker
None
None
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ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED
NEW HEARINGS:
(2) ORDINANCE 23-07 - AMENDING CHAPTER 17.30 OF TITLE 17 OF
THE ORANGE MUNICIPAL CODE ADDING SPECIAL USE
REGULATIONS FOR JOB CENTERS
Establishment of a Conditional Use Permit requirement for private property owners who
desire to establish job centers.
NOTE:
The proposed project is categorically exempt from the provisions of the
California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) per State CEQA guidelines
15305 (Class 5-Exemption-Minor Alterations to Land Use Limitations)
because requiring a conditional use permit is a minor alteration to land use
limitations imposed on properties in commercial and industrial zones and
does not result in any change to land use or density.
RECOMMENDED ACTION:
Adopt Resolution No. PC 02-08 recommending the City Council adopt
Ordinance 23-07
Assistant City Attorney, Gary Sheatz, presented the item with the following reading:
As you are aware, the City of Orange has been struggling with the effects caused by day
laborer activity at locations throughout the City for the past 20 years. Ordinance 19-07
was previously adopted by the City Council in an on-going effort to reduce problems that
include, but are not limited to, traffic congestion, jay walking, aggressive solicitation
such as swarming of vehicles, littering, public urination, and various impacts to nearby
businesses and their customers.
To address these issues, Ordinance 19-07 created several reasonable time, place and
manner restrictions as they relate to day laborer solicitation. For instance, the Ordinance
prohibited solicitation from vehicles on public streets and from public sidewalks where
there is no on-street parking; it prohibited solicitation from through traffic lanes, center
medians or driveway aprons; solicitation was prohibited adjacent to the Resource Center
or other authorized job centers; and finally solicitation from private property now
requires the express permission of the property owner.
The Ordinance before you this evening is a companion Ordinance to Ordinance 19-07.
Ordinance 23-07 is proposed to regulate those private property owners who wish to allow
day laborers to congregate on their property. Due to the impacts created by such a use,
this land use would require a conditional use permit and would only be allowed in
commercial or industrial zoned districts, no less than lOO feet from residential property.
The Ordinance defines the use as a job center, which is defined as a place where 5 or
more day laborers congregate to advertise their availability for off-site employment. It
establishes development standards for job centers with minimal requirements such as
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providing restroom facilities, reasonable operating hours, providing trash receptacles, a
site plan for safe and adequate ingress and egress, a congregation area that does not
utilize required parking spaces during business hours and rules governing orderly conduct
for potential employees.
As presented to you this evening, we feel that the Ordinance provides an alternative
forum for the solicitation of employment that is narrowly tailored to address those issues
the City has documented as having negative secondary effects to adjacent property and
the public right-of-way, as detailed in the record provided.
Chair Imboden opened the hearing for questions to Staff.
Commissioner Steiner asked for clarification on the provision in the contemplated
Ordinance that would address the number of people permitted at anyone site, would that
determination be made on a CUP by CUP basis? If so, what formula would be used to
make the determination?
Mr. Sheatz stated it would be a determination on an application by application basis. The
formula used would be based upon the site plan that would be submitted. The
anticipation would be that the job center would be an enclosed area, which would be
driven by an occupancy rating given by the Fire Department or set up in an area that
would allow people to congregate without an impact outside of the designated area.
There was no cap or number established, the number given of 5 or more was used in the
definition to establish the job center. No cap was placed on potential employees that
could be at anyone site.
Commissioner Steiner asked when an applicant came in and requested a CUP; the CUP
would not allow them to have an unlimited number of employees at the site?
Mr. Sheatz stated that would be correct.
Commissioner Merino stated for clarification a property owner that had a similar type
activity could not come into the City, claiming it was a previously existing activity, and
request they could be excluded from complying with the CUP.
Mr. Sheatz stated that was correct, they would still need to comply with the CUP.
Commissioner Whitaker asked on Page No. 3 of the draft Ordinance, Section 1,
requirement No.6; he was confused by the language. He understood the intent was to
deal with effects that the City was suffering in the land use, and to narrowly tailor the
statute to avoided running a foul of time, place and manner. He felt the language on the
last sentence instead of stating: "otherwise determined in compliance", should read: "and
to be in compliance with all State and Federal Laws, including Labor and Employment
Laws". He thought they would want, in a City Ordinance, to have the purveyor of the
site be in compliance.
Mr. Sheatz stated he agreed. The point was to keep them on notice of their compliance.
The intent was to have the person operating the job site make the determination, and they
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had to be in compliance with the way the site was operated. The City was not going to
get deeply involved to dictate each and everything they needed to do operate the job
center.
Commissioner Whitaker stated he felt the language should be changed to otherwise
compliant.
Mr. Sheatz asked if it read: "to otherwise comply with State and Federal Laws", if that
would make it more clear?
Commissioner Whitaker stated yes, he agreed with that.
Commissioner Bonina asked regarding commercial use, would this include the use of a
church, for example, and would it fall under the category of a commercial parking lot?
Mr. Sheatz stated if the property was zoned district designated for industrial or
commercial, yes it would be included. The job center type of activity could only occur
on property that had the zone district designation of industrial or commercial.
Commissioner Bonina asked if there was a residential zone that had a CUP for
commercial use, would that fall under the definition of a commercial parking lot?
Mr. Sheatz stated no.
Commissioner Bonina asked on the lOO' distance from a residential; if there was a
shopping center with an open space that had applied for a job center CUP, was the
distance from that space or from the overall shopping center property line?
Mr. Sheatz stated it would be from the overall shopping center property line.
Commissioner Bonina clarified that there would probably not be a job center m a
shopping center located adjacent to a residential zone.
Mr. Sheatz stated that would be correct.
Chair Imboden stated in reference to site plan, Item No.4, Section 1, it read: "the
congregation site shall not be located in an area that utilized parking space at anytime
when a business was authorized to use such parking". Certainly businesses utilize
parking spaces at times when they may not be open to the public, particularly in
commercial areas when workers were present 2-3 hours before the opening of the
business. He felt there was potential for a conflict in when the business was actually
opened. He asked what the thought process was in creating that component?
Mr. Sheatz stated in Section 2, there was a limitation on operating hours. The job center
created the type of activity that took place in the early morning hours. If an individual
came in, and in accordance with the Ordinance, wanted to open up in a shopping center
area that did not open until 11 :00 a.m., and they wanted to operate a job center from 6:00
a.m. to 9:00 a.m.; they could specify areas designated for congregation that took up
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parking spaces and the Ordinance would allow it. This Section was designed for those
situations. He understood the Chair's concern and was open to suggestions.
Chair Imboden stated his concern was in a multi-tenant use of a space, one issue was to
deal with safety on the site. People arriving at work at 5:00 or 6:00 a.m. and parking
spaces were used for other purposes; he was concerned with the safety issues. Typically
in looking at parking for uses on sites, they were not addressed based on hours and it
would be better to state that the job center activity could not interfere with the operation
of the businesses.
Public Hearing:
None
Commissioner Merino made a motion to recommend to the City Council Ordinance 23-
07 - Amending Chapter 17.3- of Title 17 of the Orange Municipal Code adding special
use regulations for job centers, noting it was categorically exempt from CEQA with the
following amendments to language:
. Item No.6, Section 1, to otherwise be in compliance.
. Item No.4, congregation site shall not be located in an area that utilizes
parking spaces that were required for the operation of any business or
facility.
SECOND:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioner Whitaker
Commissioners Bonina, Imboden, Merino, Steiner and Whitaker
None
None
None
MOTION CARRIED
(3) CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 2688-07 AND DESIGN REVIEW
COMMITTEE NO. 4296-07 - PRIME CUT CAFE AND WINE BAR
A proposal to establish a restaurant with a bar specializing in wine via an "On-Sale
General-Eating Place" (Type 47) ABC license. The applicant is also requesting to have
on-site wine tasting and have patrons purchase wine at the site for off-site consumption.
The restaurant would replace approximately 5,500 square feet of vacant space in the
Stadium Promenade, a 157,834 square foot entertainment center. Fayade additions and
outdoor seating is proposed to the exterior portion of the building that would be occupied
by the business.
LOCATION: 1547 W. Katella Avenue, Suite 101
NOTE:
The proposed project is categorically exempt from the provisions of the
California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) per State CEQA guidelines
15301 Class 1- Existing Facilities) because the project consists of the
operation and licensing of an existing private structure.
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RECOMMENDED ACTION:
Adopt Planning Commission Resolution No. PC 01-08 recommending
approval of CUP 2688-07 and DRC No. 4296-07, but not for the provision
of off-site sales.
Senior Planner, Chad Ortlieb, gave a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Chair Imboden opened the hearing for any questions to Staff.
Commissioner Whitaker stated in a letter they received from the applicant there was
mention of other restaurant concepts that had on-sale and off-sale, he asked if Staff had
determined if any of the other projects had the problems that Staff was anticipating with
the applicant's project?
Mr. Ortlieb deferred the question to Sergeant Bird.
Sergeant Bird stated he was advised from the property owner of an establishment in San
Diego to use as a comparison, and he was not aware of another similar business in the
City of Orange.
Commissioner Merino asked, on the issue of the column, the Planning Commission had
approved the Old Irisher application and did the property manager have authority to
change the column design? He also asked if the management of the Old Irisher had been
consulted?
Mr. Ortlieb stated that he felt that fell under the lease agreement terms that Staff was not
privy to, and the property manager was present to answer those questions.
Commissioner Steiner asked if the license the applicant was requesting permitted off-sale
and was it Staffs recommendation that it should not be permitted.
Mr. Ortlieb stated currently Prime Cuts had no license at the proposed location. They
had an application for on-sale wine, beer and distilled spirits, and off-sale for beer and
wine. It was Staffs recommendation to deny the off-sale.
Commissioner Steiner stated the reason for that was due to a perception that there would
be a risk to public safety by virtue of patron's ability to buy and take home a bottle of
wme.
Mr. Ortlieb stated that was correct as well as the potential for off-site consumption in the
center.
Commissioner Steiner asked if Staff envisioned the possibility of patrons enjoying a
bottle of wine so much that they would take it out and consume it in their vehicle?
Mr. Ortlieb stated it was the thought process as a potential.
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Commissioner Steiner stated, based on an over concentration stand point, if Staff was
willing to permit the on-sale and the burden could be met, it was difficult to anticipate
that it would not be met for off-sale. The rational that justified the CUP to move forward
permitting on-sale of beer, wine and distilled spirits, would seem, that it would be
applicable to permitting off-sale as well.
Mr. Ortlieb stated Staff was looking at precedence setting and consistency, there were
existing CUP's that allowed off-sale in the center, and they did not want to set a pattern
of allowing an off-sale scenario for each type 41 or 47 license.
Commissioner Steiner asked on previous applicant requests that had prohibited off-sale
of beer and wine, did Staffhave any knowledge of whether or not any of those applicants
had sought the right to sell beer and/or wine off-sale?
Mr. Ortlieb stated he could not speak on behalf of Staff based on his relatively new
tenure with the City.
Commissioner Steiner asked if during his research and preparation of the project, had Mr.
Ortlieb encountered any situations from prior applicants seeking the right to sell off-sale
beer and wine.
Mr. Ortlieb stated in his research he did not encounter anything.
Commissioner Bonina stated in the analysis of the number of alcohol licenses in the
census tract, one of the overriding considerations was that the center maintained its own
security staff. He asked if they anticipated a need for an increase in security staff if the
application moved forward with the off-sale permit? What had been the thought process
for the limitation of the hours of operation?
Sergeant Bird stated they had not made a recommendation for increased security, if the
off-sale was approved it would be a component that the center's security would need to
be aware of. The hours of operation were based on the initial interviews with the
proposed property owners. They had stated that the hours of operation would be 11 :00
a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Sunday through Wednesday and 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Thursday
through Saturday. He stated that this was the first time that he had heard they were
requesting operating hours until2:00 a.m.
Commissioner Bonina asked if the Police Department had an issue with the operating
hours until 2:00 a.m.?
Sergeant Bird stated the issue that they foresaw was the leaving of the realm of a
bonafide eating establishment and entering the realm of a public premise, it was an issue
the Police Department was not willing to deal with in that type of a complex.
Commissioner Steiner asked if the contemplation of operating hours until 2:00 a.m.
affected the Police Department's support for the application?
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Sergeant Bird stated they had based their support on the initial information, and yes the
operating hours could affect the Police Department's support of the application.
Commissioner Steiner asked for patrons who enjoyed a bottle of wine and decided to take
it home, was it Sergeant Bird's opinion that those activities could lead to criminal
incidents? Did the Police Department feel that would enhance the crime element or
would it be an activity that could be handled with mitigation measures, such as restricting
the hours that a patron could purchase a bottle of wine?
Sergeant Bird stated there were laws that dealt with the issue in the Business and
Professions Code. One of the laws allowed for on-sale establishments to allow patrons to
take home a partially consumed bottle of wine. The other law, 23401, gave on-sale
establishments off-sale authority. He had contacted Alcohol Beverage Control to clarify
why on-sales were allowed off-sales, and why did they have a separation of the two?
Currently he could look at a particular area and determine the number of on-sale licenses,
as during the last few years they had asked to have no off-sales in on-sale establishments.
In speaking with the legislative arm of the ABC, the initial law enacted in 1947 was
established at a time when there were no convenience stores. This gave general stores
with restaurants the ability to sell alcoholic beverages and the laws had not changed.
Commissioner Steiner asked was the purpose for the Police Department seeking
prevention of off-sale was for statistical purposes and record keeping?
Sergeant Bird stated yes, that was correct. Also, from the Police Department's point of
view there was over concentration and a high rate of crime in the area. Crime statistics
had risen and it appeared that over the last year (2007) the crime stats were going up in
that particular reporting district. To add another ABC license to an already over
concentrated area, in a family oriented complex, prompted the Police Department to
make a recommendation of denial for the off-sale to prevent the potential for alcoholic
beverage consumption outside the licensed restaurants.
Commissioner Steiner stated if there was a willingness to give the CUP for on-sale, the
over concentration and crime argument could not be used to deny off-sales.
Commissioner Whitaker asked if they modified Condition No. 17 to read: the sale of
beer for consumption off premises was prohibited, would the Police Department have
less of a problem?
Chair Imboden stated that he did not see anywhere in the documents that the wine would
only be sold with a meal. In the applicant's letter it described the establishment as a retail
wine shop. Would this allow a patron to walk into the establishment, purchase alcohol,
and walk out? He could not find anything that prohibited that activity and was that issue
addressed?
Assistant Planning Director, Ed Knight, stated yes, you could walk in the restaurant and
purchase wine.
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Sergeant Bird, answered Commissioner Whitaker's question, stating yes, in changing
Condition No. 17 it would create less of a problem for the Police Department.
Chair Imboden opened the Public Hearing.
Robert Atkinson, 150 Pelican Way, San Rafael, stated as the property owner he was very
excited about the addition of Prime Cuts, they had made many changes to the center over
the last few years and had added many businesses. He believed that Prime Cuts would
serve the sector of the community that desired steak and wine tasting. Mr. Atkinson
stated he lived near the wine country, and often tasted a wine and had the opportunity to
purchase a bottle, it was generally $30.00 to $40.00 a bottle and it would not get opened
immediately and never opened on the way home. He had the opportunity to speak with
Sergeant Bird and they had an average of one incident every 14 days for the last 3 years
in the center. The number was low for a shopping center. Those incidents were primarily
related to a stolen car and a stolen cell phone, there were very few alcohol related
incidents. There was a situation at Acapulco, fortunately, with their relationship with the
Police Department and security team it was addressed quickly. He supported the off-sale
request. The applicant's intention was to sell wine not beer; they did not want a liquor
store type business. The restaurant's plan included a wine bar and they should be given
the opportunity to sell off-sale wine.
Commissioner Merino stated the Commission had previously approved the design for the
Old Irisher. The previous approval would be amended based on the recommendations for
the column change for Prime Cuts. He asked if Mr. Atkinson had the authority to make
the change, and did the Old Irisher tenant realize the column would be changed?
Mr. Atkinson stated they had been advised and were in agreement. He was in the process
of securing that approval in writing to provide to Staff.
Kevin Diez, 2756 Granvia Place, Thousand Oaks, came forward to answer questions
from the Commissioners.
Commissioner Merino asked Mr. Diez ifhe was a licensed architect, licensed by the State
of California?
Mr. Diez stated yes he was.
Commissioner Merino stated on sheet 82-1 of the plans, there was a reference to a wine
tasting room. He could not find anything on the floor plan that was a wine tasting room.
Mr. Diez stated it was the corner room that was noted as a private dining room.
Commissioner Merino clarified whether it was a private dining room or wine tasting
room?
Mr. Diez stated the room would serve as both.
Commissioner Merino stated in the letter that was received from the applicant it was
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indicated that part of the service provided would be a wine tasting activity. He felt they
could not have a private dining room functioning as a wine tasting room, and he asked
how they envisioned that to work?
Ken Dunkley, 7432 Cabrillo Ave, La Jolla stated they envisioned the room for private
dining as needed, and used for special events such as a wine tasting presentation. The
retail sales of wine would not be in a particular concentrated area. Wine would be
displayed throughout the restaurant and patrons could access a bottle, take it to a hostess
and make their purchase.
Commissioner Merino stated it was a nice idea; however, he was concerned that the
concept was more of a bar with the wine as an adjunct to it, and that there was not a
dedicated location for the wine tasting. In the letter to Staff it was stated the purpose of
having the off-sale was to enhance the patron's knowledge of the wine prior to taking it
home. He had a concern that there would be selling of wine in a more retail, bar type,
scenano.
Mr. Dunkley stated their vision was for a premium casual restaurant. They would feature
roasted meats with a very important wine component. There would be a number of
different parts to the wine program. There would be wine tasting at the bar or at your
table. They intended to have wine makers come in and host pourings. The private dining
room would be used for wine dinners, where a prepaid meal could be purchased with
wines to taste with their meal and purchased ifthey enjoyed it.
Commissioner Merino asked if the wine tasting could still happen without the patron
purchasing wine? He asked why the off-sale component was critical to the restaurant?
Mr. Dunkley stated it was part of their business model. He felt it offered a total wine and
food experience. Someone could come in enjoy food, taste the wines and purchase those
that they liked. There would be specialty wines that could not be purchased elsewhere.
Commissioner Merino felt all that would be true, with the exception of purchasing a
bottle of wine. Would the off-sale be critical to their business?
Mr. Dunkley stated part of the wine experience would include the opportunity for the
patron to purchase the wine. He felt that the off-sales would be approximately 20% and
it was a critical component to their restaurant.
Commissioner Merino stated with the CUP it would stay with the property, and although
the applicant may have the best intention, a future tenant might not have the same
positive intentions. He asked the City Attorney if the approval of the CUP would remain
with the property?
Assistant City Attorney, Gary Sheatz, stated yes, the CUP would remam with the
property.
Mr. Dunkley stated the CUP required that 50% of the restaurant sales would be food.
The State statute would allow a patron to re-cork an unfinished bottle of wine and take it
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home. This would also not force someone to drink an entire bottle of wine in the
establishment.
Commissioner Steiner asked if they had any objection of a condition that would prohibit
the removal of glasses of wine from the premises?
Mr. Dunkley stated they would have no objection to that.
Commissioner Steiner stated the establishment proposed to inform their customers about
wine and the goal was to offer a unique business model that was not offered elsewhere in
the City. If a patron were to stumble in and grab wine bottles off the shelf and break out
the American Express would there be limitations on how the restaurant staff handled and
made judgments on the sale to such patrons?
Mr. Dunkley stated yes, if there was a situation that would be workable for them.
Commissioner Steiner stated he had seen in the past prohibitions to selling alcohol to
clearly inebriated patrons. Condition No. 14 referenced stacking, and if it was clearly
able to be assessed that a patron was inebriated, was the restaurant staff prepared to
handle those situations?
Mr. Dunkley stated yes, and they had prepared an alcohol management program that had
been accepted by the Police Department.
Commissioner Steiner stated in reference to the hours of operation, the hours had
changed and he asked for clarification on that issue.
Mr. Dunkley stated when they had initially spoken with Sergeant Bird he was given the
proposed hours of operation. In looking at the other restaurants in the center they had
determined there was a condition to stop the service of alcohol one hour prior to closing,
and their thought was to have the same hours of operation as the adjacent businesses.
Due to the conditions at the center, they wanted the right to stay open later to compete
with the other businesses in the center. He was not aware of a condition that limited the
hours of operation. Condition No.4 called for review of the CUP in 1 year and they were
supportive of that condition and they were willing to work with the Police Department to
assure they were successful.
Commissioner Whitaker stated, in looking at the site plan, there did not appear to be an
area set aside for the retail display of the wine. Several of the establishments that were
listed for comparison did have a retail area for display. He asked why their establishment
did not have that component?
Mr. Dunkley stated primarily they were a restaurant. They wanted most of the common
area designated for restaurant dining. The area around the bar would highlight the wine,
and there would be bottles displayed throughout the restaurant as part of the decor.
Patrons would see wine bottles displayed with the awareness that a bottle could be
purchased to take home.
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Commissioner Bonina asked if they were associated with any of the restaurants listed on
the email that was sent to Ms. Angus?
Mr. Dunkley stated no, there was no association.
Chair Imboden closed the Public Hearing and brought the hearing back to the
Commission for discussion.
Commissioner Steiner stated he thought it was a splendid idea. He felt that one of the
things the Commission was looking for was innovative business ideas that would be
successful and provided appropriate land uses in that particular area. He was unprepared
to accept the notion that this would be some big crime factory and the granting of an on-
site license, which was supported by the Police Department, would lead to more crime.
He was not persuaded that crime was a justifiable basis for denying the off-sale license
for wine only. The willingness of the applicant to forsake the sale of beer suggested that
they were intending to do just what they had stated. He understood there were
administrative concerns; however, they did not appear to be a factor for denial. He was
in support of having the application move forward with off-sale.
Commissioner Whitaker stated he agreed with Commissioner Steiner. He had been to a
number of the establishments listed as comparisons and those establishments had much
more of a retail focus. The application did not have a retail focus, and their off-site sales
would be much less than those establishments offered as a comparison. He felt if
Condition No. 17 was modified to prohibit beer from off-site sale he would be in support
of the application. There was some inconsistency in Condition No. 18, as they were
stating an opened, re-corked bottle of wine could be taken off premises. He felt the
application was an excellent concept for the City of Orange.
Chair Imboden stated he felt uncomfortable that there was live product distributed
throughout the facility. He was concerned with how those items were monitored and
controlled. He understood you could walk through the restaurant take a bottle of wine to
the bar and pay for it there.
Commissioner Merino stated he understood a bottle of wine could be taken to the
reception area for purchase.
Chair Imboden looked to the applicant for acknowledgment of the patron taking product
to the bar for purchase. The applicant acknowledged, with a nod, that was correct.
Commissioner Bonina stated there was wine being stored throughout the restaurant and
there was free access to those bottles by the patrons. That was not an uncommon
scenario in good restaurants. There would be wines shelved and dispensed that were
accessible to patrons to take to a hostess to purchase. He initially had a concern with the
crime and concentration of licenses in the center, however, this was an area that they
were looking to boost the economic viability of and historically alcohol licenses were
permitted. The fact that there was not a dedicated retail area in the proposed
establishment underscored that it would be a restaurant and not a retail facility. The
operation was designed as a professional dining facility. There was a recommendation
Page 13 of 16 Pages
Planning Commission Minutes January 7, 2008
14 of 16
from the Police Department to have the management look at their security service and
increase security. He felt there would not be patrons who would take wine from the
facility, uncork it and drink it on the premises. He was in support of the application.
Commissioner Merino stated the first issue was the over concentration of licenses in a
high crime area. In reviewing applications, they had recently reviewed a project at The
Village and had denied a CUP. The analysis of these applications needed to be applied in
a consistent manner. He felt ,the reason the project was acceptable for him was the
mitigating issues that were brought forth by Staff and the Police Department referencing
the location taking an unoccupied space in an entertainment area. He had reservations
regarding the off-sale aspect based on future tenants, and although it was unfair to
penalize the current tenant for what may occur in the future, he still had a concern. With
the amendment to Condition No. 17, limiting beer sale and the assurances from the tenant
and property manager that the facility would be high end and their interest in bringing a
successful project to the community, he could support the project with reservations.
Chair Imboden stated they had approved CUP projects in the past that were presented as
high end facilities that did not develop into that. It was hard to condition high end. There
were conditions in place for the on-sale component, however, he felt there needed to be
some type of control for the off-sale component and that there should be one designated
aspect of the business for that activity. They were not conditioning the business one year
from now or a new business to have every server in the building selling bottles, or the
fact that a patron could walk up to a hostess, make their purchase, and walk out the door.
He was concerned with that. He felt the concept ofthe restaurant was good; however, the
CUP would remain with the property and not the business model that was being
presented. He could not support the application as he felt there was lack of control with
the sale of alcohol. Chair Imboden stated he was willing to work with the applicant to
designate one point of sale for all bottled goods.
Commissioner Whitaker stated he understood the Chair's concern and he had been to
high end restaurants where a server would bring a bottle of wine to the table for sale. It
was a possibility to purchase through a bar tab to allow for auditing purposes.
Chair Imboden stated his concern was that the product was distributed throughout the
restaurant and there was a lack of control. How would the product be monitored?
Commissioner Steiner asked for clarification on what was to be controlled?
Chair Imboden stated he wanted to ensure that the diligence they applied to open goods
was also applied to the off-sale component.
Commissioner Steiner stated it was not uncommon for restaurants to display bottles
throughout the establishments and it was part of the design. If he wished to purchase he
could take that product for purchase and he felt that was sufficient control. He agreed
with Commissioner Whitaker that the off-sales could be managed on a separate tab. That
would enable monitoring of that activity. He did not feel that having one point of sale
was necessary.
Page 14 of 16 Pages
Planning Commission Minutes January 7, 2008
15 of 16
Chair Imboden stated he did not feel that the current proposal gave any control to
whether the patron had consumed food or had already consumed alcohol prior to an off-
sale purchase.
Commissioner Steiner felt it was more useful to have the server make the determination
about the ability for the patron to purchase more alcohol, than to have them deal with a
separate employee.
Commissioner Bonina stated he did not understand the need to separate the sales issue. If
someone were to purchase wine only vs. someone having a meal and purchasing wine, he
did not see a point in separating those transactions.
Chair Imboden stated it was a different type of business to look at one as a bona fide
eating establishment or a retail establishment, they were clearly two different things and
operated differently.
Commissioner Bonina stated the criteria on Condition No.7 stated that the gross sales of
alcohol could not exceed the gross sales of food. They needed to be 50/50 and the
regulation of alcohol sales would be regulated. He asked Staff if 50/50 was a common
ratio?
Mr. Ortlieb stated recent applications were less than a 50/50 ratio; they were closer to a
30170 ratio with a higher percentage of food sales. A 50/50 ratio was an annual gross
receipts condition that was applied to type 47 licenses.
Commissioner Steiner made a motion to adopt Conditional Use Permit No. 2688-07 and
Design Review Committee No. 4296-07 - Prime Cut Cafe and Wine Bar noting the
application was categorically exempt from CEQA, recommending approval of Planning
Commission Resolution No. PC 01-08 with the following changes:
. Condition No. 17 delete words: and or wine
. Condition No. 18 to change the language to: prohibit open containers from
leaving the confines of the premises.
SECOND:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN :
ABSENT:
Commissioner Whitaker
Commissioners Bonina, Merino, Steiner and Whitaker
Chair Imboden
None
None
MOTION CARRIED
Page 15 of 16 Pages
Planning Commission Minutes
January 7,2008
16 of 16
(4) ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner Bonina made a motion for adjournment to the next regular scheduled
session of the Planning Commission held in the Council Chambers Monday, January 21,
2008.
SECOND:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN :
ABSENT:
Commissioner Steiner
Commissioners Bonina, Imboden, Merino, Steiner and Whitaker
None
None
None
MOTION CARRIED
MEETING ADJOURNED @ 8:45
Page 16 of 16 Pages