2013-05-01 DRC Final Minutes CITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES - FINAL
May 1, 2013
Committee Members Present: Carol Fox
Tim McCormack
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: Robert Imboden
Staff in Attendance: David Khorram, Chief Building Official
Dan Ryan, Historic Preservation Planner
Chad Ortlieb, Senior Planner
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session — 5:00 P.M.
Chair Fox opened the Administrative Session at 5:05 p.m.
The Committee Members reviewed the meeting minutes from the Design Review Committee
Meeting of April 17, 2013. Changes and corrections were noted.
Chair Fox stated she would recuse herself from Item No.9 as her firm was the architect on the
project. Committee Member Wheeler stated he would recuse himself from Item No. 4, due to
the proximity of his office.
Chief Building Official, David Khorram, stated there were two projects, Items No. 6 and 7,
which would be continued. On Kona Cleaners the owner was not available to be at the meeting
and he had asked for a continuance. For the Marywood Pump Station, the item would be
continued due to a City redesign that impacted the project.
Chair Fox asked when the items came up in the Agenda would she just state that the items would
be heard at a later date?
Mr. Khorram stated that was correct.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on the Marywood Pump Station he wanted to suggest the use
of slump stone instead of split -face block. There was a lot of slump stone in the neighborhood.
Chair Fox stated she totally resented slump stone and was not certain why it was ever invented
and on a pump station she felt it would not be very nice.
Committee Member Wheeler stated slump stone would be neighborhood compatible.
Mr. Khorram stated there were two items on the consent calendar and if the Committee was okay
with them, those items could be moved as consent items.
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Chair Fox stated they would want to open both items for discussion, however, waive the reading
of the Staff Report.
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session of the
Design Review Committee Meeting.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Carol Fox, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Robert Imboden
MOTION CARRIED.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:20 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Committee Member Imboden absent.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on matters not
listed on the Agenda.
There were no speakers.
CONSENT ITEMS:
(1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: April 17, 2013
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve the minutes from the Design Review
Committee Meeting of April 17, 2013, with the changes and corrections noted during the
Administrative Session.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Carol Fox, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: Joe Woollett
ABSENT: Robert Imboden
MOTION CARRIED.
Items No. 2 and 3 were moved from the Consent Calendar and opened for discussion.
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Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
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(2) DRC No. 4681 -13 — SEVEN GABLES REAL ESTATE
• A proposal to install a new monument sign for a real estate office.
• 229 N. Glassell Street, Old Towne Historic District
• Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714- 744 -7224, dryan @cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
The reading of the Staff Report was waived.
Chair Fox opened the item to the Committee for discussion.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on page 2 of the Staff Report the proposed sign was noted as
a wood sign; however, in reviewing the drawing further, the sign was called out as 2" thick HDU
double -sided sandblasted sign. He understood that HDU stood for high density polyurethane.
For clarity the letters were raised above the surrounding area. In the past the DRC had approved
HDU signs, and he was perfectly happy with the proposed sign, but wanted clarification.
Public Comment
Steve Bennett, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated when they had read the Staff
Report the OTPA had read it as a wood sign. There had not been any objection to the sign if it
was sandblasted wood. If it was polyurethane that would be a problem.
The Committee Members reviewed the proposal.
Chair Fox asked if the letters were raised?
Committee Member Wheeler stated the letters were raised due to the surrounding area being
sandblasted out.
Applicant, Ted Howard, address on file, stated he was from the sign company. The sign was a
high density urethane and sandblasted. It was a product that was made to simulate wood and was
much better than wood. Wood would crack, split, and warp. High density urethane would not
crack, split, or warp. In the drawing the white area would be sandblasted and the black area was
raised, not that it was raised off of the sign; it was flush with the white area blasted away at 3/8"
deep. It was a typical sandblasted sign.
Committee Member McCormack stated the sign was stuck in the middle of a turf area and that
posed problems with irrigation and mowing. It had not appeared to be designed for the area and
almost looked like a campaign sign and not a finished sign. It was just a post in the lawn. When
the lawn grew the maintenance person would not be able to cut the grass close to the post and the
sign would take more wear and tear than it should have.
Mr. Howard stated the pole would be aluminum.
•
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Committee Member McCormack stated the grass would grow high against the post. He
suggested that the irrigation be adjusted accordingly and a gravel rectangle be installed around
the post. He recommended a more finished look to the sign base.
Chair Fox asked if a condition could be added would that be something the applicant would be
amenable to doing?
Mr. Howard stated he could not speak for Seven Gables Real Estate, but he would suggest the
upkeep of the area around the sign with a weed eater.
Committee Member McCormack stated that would just chip the pole. He recommended a
rectangular 12" x "however long" the sign was, and to fill that with gravel and there could be
mowing around that. He would not want the sign to become an eyesore.
Chair Fox asked if the foot had some sort of a concrete base would that accomplish the same
thing?
Mr. Howard stated he was open to raise the portion of concrete that would surround the base?
Committee Member McCormack stated no, as the mower would not be able to get close to the
vertical surface. The concrete should be the same level as the grass. A concrete mow strip or
gravel around it.
Chair Fox stated a motion could be made with a condition.
Committee Member Woollett asked how the Committee felt about the material?
Committee Member Wheeler stated in the past they had agreed that with a painted sign, painted
with a latex paint would provide for a plastic finish; if it was wood it would also be painted with
a latex paint with the same finished result. The end result would not be any different whether the
sign material was wood or plastic. It was a free - standing sign and not attached to a historic
structure.
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve DRC No. 4681 -13, Seven Gables
Real Estate, subject to the findings and conditions contained in the Staff Report, with the
additional condition:
• To construct a base for the sign that was level with the turf and post.
SECOND: Carol Fox
AYES: Carol Fox, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Robert Imboden
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Mr. Howard asked if they were requiring a base at just the posts or the perimeter of the sign?
Committee Member McCormack stated a base that was continuous under the entire sign.
MOTION CARRIED.
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Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 6 of 32
(3) DRC No. 4686 -13 — GREVILLE RESIDENCE
• A proposal to construct a new attached rear patio cover on a 1921 Bungalow.
• 357 S. Center Street, Old Towne Historic District
• Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714 - 744 -7224, dryan @cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Committee Member Wheeler stated he would recommend the reading of the Staff Report be
waived.
Chair Fox stated the project was a bit more complicated and she asked for a Staff Report reading.
Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff
Report.
Public Comment
Steve Bennett, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated the plans were reviewed and they
were in support of the proposed project.
Applicant, Lee Greville, address on file, stated it was basically as Mr. Ryan had stated. It was
wooden and in kit form from Gannall Lumber. It would be painted white and match the house
trim. Mr. Ryan had recommended 1 x's to cover up any hangers or supports and the only other
thing was that in the picture there was wood that had been tacked on and it would be taken back
off. There would be a "z flashing" that would go up and over the ledger.
Chair Fox stated there were two diagrams and she asked which of the two would be constructed?
Mr. Greville stated the top one, the trellis.
Chair Fox stated in the front the columns were round with the main beam and the rafters and
lattice members and she asked if all three of those elements would be carried to the back patio
cover?
Mr. Greville stated yes, it would match.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if there would be 2 x 6's on each side?
Mr. Greville stated yes.
Committee Member Wheeler stated those were called "grabs" and more of a 1960's style
treatment. He suggested on the 4 x 4 post, instead of using a 2 x 6, to use a 1 x, something wide
enough to cover the flange. He also suggested adding 1 x's on the other two sides. On the post
coming up to the beam to place a metal strap on each side and nail that in with the grab covering
that. He suggested on the post base to use the type that could be screwed or nailed in, rather than
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Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
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bolted. On the ledger on the wall an approach would be to use a freeze block, a block between
each rafter, and then come in with a piece of trim, maybe a 1x.
The Committee Members discussed the suggestions with the applicant.
Committee Member McCormack stated in viewing a structure of the size proposed with only two
4 x 4's holding it up it appeared weak and he suggested using 6 x 6's.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that would require 6x beams and the structure would then
get really heavy.
Chair Fox stated with the grabs it was essentially a 6 x 6.
Mr. Greville stated hopefully a 4 x 4 would be okay.
Chair Fox stated it was okay.
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve DRC No. 4686 -13, Greville Residence,
subject to the findings and conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the
recommendations as presented to the applicant.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Carol Fox, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Robert Imboden
MOTION CARRIED.
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Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 8 of 32
Continued Items:
(4) DRC No. 4680 -13 — MASSARO— FACADE REMODEL
• A proposal to remodel the front and rear facades of a contributing one -story 1922
Western Falsefront industrial building.
• 145 N. Lemon Street, Old Towne Historic District
• Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714- 744 -7224, dryan @cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Committee Member Wheeler stated he would recuse himself from the project's presentation due
to the proximity of his work place.
Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff
Report.
Applicant, Anthony Massaro, address on file, stated he had agreed with all the suggestions,
however, he had received some push back from the owner regarding the paint colors. The
business owner really liked the proposed color scheme and he asked if there was a color palette
that he should be working with?
Mr. Ryan stated in the Plaza area there was a palette that businesses could choose from, but that
was in the Plaza and had not included the proposal before them. If an applicant chose to use a
different color or present a color palette, that was what the DRC looked at. City Staff had not
looked at themselves as the "paint police," as the next owner could repaint the building and the
applicant could propose their color choices.
Mr. Massaro stated he had discussed with the owner the paint color situation and he had wanted
to go with the two contrasting colors as initially presented.
Committee Member Woollett asked what action had been taken regarding the paint colors?
Chair Fox stated the feedback was that for a Western Falsefront, one of the character - defining
features was the flatness of the front facade and the hugeness of it. The DRC had suggested that
the front facade be one shade of color and not two colors as proposed.
Committee Member McCormack stated to have it appear bigger and not broken up.
Mr. Ryan provided a photo of the proposed color scheme,
Chair Fox stated the DRC member who had brought up the paint color concern was not present,
but it was not a big issue for her.
titsp The Committee Members reviewed the plans and the paint proposal.
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Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
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Committee Member McCormack stated he thought the discussion was that with the starker
contrast the building appeared smaller, visually, it broke it up.
Mr. Massaro asked if the Committee would be open to two colors, but colors with not such a
contrast. To use two colors that were more similar.
Committee Member McCormack stated that would be a better suggestion, to not have the stark
black and white situation.
Mr. Massaro stated he would hope for an approval and work through the color choices.
Chair Fox stated another thought would be to use one color, but to have the barn doors be the
alternate color. That would eliminate such a contrast.
Mr. Ryan stated that would be a more typical situation.
Committee Member McCormack agreed with that suggestion.
Chair Fox asked if the Committee would want to review the color choices?
Mr. Ryan stated he had not known of a project that had come back for color choices.
Chair Fox stated they could provide their suggestions and Staff could review colors with the
applicant.
Mr. Massaro stated the owner wanted to move forward as they had to go through the seismic and
had just gotten Title 24 even though it was seismic. His thought was to do all the seismic, do the
doors, and then provide the colors.
Chair Fox stated the color choice would be a condition that Staff could review.
Public Comment
Steve Bennett, address on file, representing OTPA, stated it was a nice project.
Committee Member Fox made a motion to approve DRC No. 4680 -13, Massaro - Facade
Remodel, subject to the findings and conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the
additional condition:
• The paint scheme to be altered to create a design that created less contrast from what was
originally presented; and the final color design to be reviewed by Staff to meet the criteria
discussed during the proposed project presentation.
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Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
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SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Carol Fox, Tim McCormack, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: Robert Imboden
RECUSED: Craig Wheeler
MOTION CARRIED.
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Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 11 of 32
New Agenda Items:
(5) DRC No. 4569 -11 — DARIUS EQUITIES- APARTMENTS
• A proposal to demolish six units on an existing site and build eight units in two
buildings.
• 1213 and 1221 W. Palmyra Avenue
• Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714 - 744 -7237, cortlieb @cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Senior Planner, Chad Ortlieb, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Chair Fox stated that there were issue items had been addressed and with the comment regarding
additional pavers, those were in addition to what was being presented or had the plans reflected
the additional pavers?
Mr. Ortlieb stated it was reflective of the additional pavers.
Applicant, Harold Clift, address on file, stated he had been working with Mr. Ortlieb for some
time and they were ready to move the project along.
Public Comment
None.
Applicant, James Brennan, address on file, stated there was a minor change in color from the
ground floor to the second floor. The ground floor areas would be a bit darker tan with a divider
at the color change.
The Committee Members reviewed the plans.
Chair Fox opened the item to the Committee for discussion
Committee Member Wheeler stated he was a bit surprised that the plans were carried to such an
extent before coming to the DRC.
Mr. Brennan stated it was a tough site and they had brought in another architect that had been
recommended to them. He was working with people who had built other buildings in the City of
Orange and they built class projects, nothing cheap.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he was pleased that the issues with the design had been
resolved; architecturally, he felt the proposed project was very well articulated and it was a riff
on mid - century modern residential architecture and was a lot of fun. He had a few questions.
On page Al there was a note 25 that he had thought should be the railing wall, but it was called
out as a shear wall across the top.
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Mr. Clift stated it was a floor to ceiling wall, and both sides of the stairwell had floor to ceiling
walls and on one side of the shear wall on the stairwell side, that had the handrail and they
needed that to stabilize the roof tresses above.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he disagreed with a change of material on the same plane; he
pointed out the area on the plans. He suggested running the same material all the way to the roof
and having the whole mass be siding.
Mr. Clift stated on the garage side it would be quite feasible to do, as they were in line, but on
the entrance it was a lot wider. They could take the siding all the way up on just the entry side.
Chair Fox stated there was a change in plane, where there was a material change and the siding
was wrapping a form and returning back with stucco, except for one area. She asked if there was
a recessed area?
Mr. Clift stated yes and he pointed out the recessed areas.
Chair Fox stated she was not certain if another horizontal band would be a good stopping point.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that would be too foreign.
Mr. Clift stated they could continue the siding to the eaves.
Chair Fox stated then it would not return around the corners.
Committee Member Woollett stated the one element could read as a mass, a setting within the
other mass. What was done in the joints and with the material was really important.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on the one side there would be a mass intersection another
mass and putting siding all the way around. He suggested furring the mass out 6" or so and it
would align with the window on the entry side.
Chair Fox stated it was symmetrical on both sides with the entire shed roof on top having siding
on it and it would wrap around to the side. The side that was next to the wide driveway was very
visible. The other side was less visible and there was a lot of screening.
Mr. Clift stated they could wrap the corner and go that first foot.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he would not agree with that as it would be a whole new
vocabulary. If they would go with the siding on that area it should wrap all the way around and
the one side was less visible.
Mr. Clift stated he could agree with that.
Chair Fox asked what type of siding would they use?
Committee Member Woollett asked if the face of the material would be vertical or sloped?
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Mr. Clift stated it would be sloped and looked like wood siding with the wood grain molded into
it and it was a concrete base.
Committee Member Woollett asked how the corners would be handled?
Mr. Clift stated the manufacturer had a detail for that, he could provide that. The corners could
be woven together, there would be one that over lapped in one direction and the other over
lapped in the other direction and everything would be waterproof.
Committee Member Wheeler stated there would be an exposed end of the panel.
Mr. Clift stated there would not be an exposed end.
Committee Member Woollett asked the applicant to draw what he was referring to.
Mr. Clift drew a picture of how the corner would be constructed. The corner would be mitered.
Chair Fox stated she understood that Hardie board could not be mitered. They could use a trim
board. The corners could be trimmed out and still be part of the design vocabulary. There were
different sizes.
Mr. Clift stated there was PVC trim.
Committee Member Woollett asked if there was a corner trim piece for that material?
Committee Member Wheeler suggested a reglet that could be used to have the boards die into. It
could be a metal corner, but very subtle.
Chair Fox stated that would be a clean way to deal with the corners.
Mr. Clift stated they could do that and it would be less expensive to install as there would not be
as much labor. They could use a PVC piece at the corner, cut to a 1 x 1.
Committee Member Wheeler stated if they chose to use PVC he suggested square instead of
rectangular, to create an even corner.
Committee Member Woollett asked if there was plywood under there or drywall?
Mr. Clift stated it was plywood. All the exterior walls would be sheeted with 15/32 structural
plywood for the seismic requirements and all the exterior walls were shear walls.
Committee Member Woollett stated the corners related to what was going on underneath.
Mr. Clift stated in the areas with stucco there would be two layers of paper.
Chair Fox stated she felt a condition could be added to ensure that the raw edge of the panel
would not be visible.
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Committee Member Wheeler stated on the question of open space, the ordinance for useable
open space requirement stated the space would be open to the living area of the unit. The living
area that the space was accessible from was the bedroom.
Mr. Clift stated it was the hallway. It was an oversized landing area and large enough to use as
an open room. There was room for a desk, table, and chair.
Committee Member Wheeler stated if a resident wanted to have a picnic on their private open
space they would need to carry everything upstairs.
Mr. Clift stated the other consideration was that at the ground level there was open space off the
front entry door. A fixed stone bench would be provided for residents.
Chair Fox stated she had only two real areas of concern and one was having a very nice open
space area, separated by the Palm tree, however, it was polluted by the placement of the A/C
units.
Mr. Clift stated they had looked at other areas, but there A/C units were lined up with the
bedrooms and laundry room and on the ground floor there was a window that had been added as
a Police Department request.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if the A/C units could be moved closer together toward the
common wall of the garages?
Mr. Clift stated they could, but there would be horizontal lines run there.
Chair Fox stated the functionality as open space would not be very nice for residents with the
placement of the A/C.
Committee Member Wheeler suggested that the A/C be placed behind one another.
Mr. Clift stated they had researched placing the units on the roof, however, due to the screening
requirements that was not an option.
Committee Member McCormack suggested placement on the second floor deck.
Mr. Clift stated that would create less useable space in that area. He had considered using the
one piece units and placing the unit in the attic. The units were not very quiet and putting the
A/C units at the area proposed would be less noise for the residents.
Chair Fox stated with the walls, concrete, and everything in that area the noise would echo a lot
in that area and she suggested pulling the units away from the livable areas of the units.
Mr. Clift stated that was the garage and ground floor there.
The Committee Members reviewed the plans with the applicants and areas where the A/C units
could be moved to.
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Mr. Brennan asked how big a deal would it be to move them?
Mr. Clift stated the pipes could be moved at the second floor wall and it would be completely
hidden.
Mr. Brennan asked the Committee Members if the A/C units were moved would that resolve
their concerns?
Chair Fox stated her issue with the area was that it was not a friendly place to hang out, it was a
desolate place and they had not probably wanted to move the utilities. To move the A/C units
and to remove the bench to allow residents to put their own furniture there would be better.
Committee Member Wheeler suggested the use of pavers to define the space.
Mr. Clift stated the A/C units could be moved to act as more of a divider. The open space
requirement had been met.
Committee Member McCormack stated there could be some landscape used for screening. The
Committee discussed the A/C unit placement and screening while reviewing the plans.
Chair Fox stated it appeared that screening would be desired with the respect that the A/C units
still needed to function and to have the right airflow.
Committee Member McCormack stated plant material would green it up.
Mr. Clift stated a foot would need to be left for air circulation, but a trellis and narrow planter
could be added.
Chair Fox stated when driving down the driveway there was a common open space barbeque
area and she suggested to push the common space to the center and it would provide more to
look at instead of just cars.
Mr. Clift stated there needed to be a fire hydrant back there.
Chair Fox stated by shifting the parking there would need to be less striping.
Mr. Clift stated there needed to be 4' wide planters on each side and 8' for handicap access and a
10' wide minimum to provide for open space.
Chair Fox stated the site would be over parked.
Mr. Clift stated the property owner requested one guest parking space per unit.
Chair Fox pointed out the handicap accessible unit on the plans and stated there was 4' of planter
that could be absorbed into the open space requirement.
Mr. Brennan stated the concept of having that area more toward the corner was to allow for more
privacy; in moving it over to the center it would destroy that concept.
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Chair Fox stated possibly people would not go there if it was in the corner, hemmed in by cars.
Mr. Clift stated there was also a light pole that had been added per a request by the Police
Department.
Chair Fox stated she thought it could all remain and she was suggesting a mitigation of the
paving that went all the way out. The project scale and massing worked well with the
neighborhood, especially with what existed across the street. The fact that there were other
apartments in the area would also lend to a huge improvement of that area.
Mr. Brennan stated the project would provide housing for employees of the hospital.
Chair Fox stated it was a great improvement to that street, she welcomed the project.
Mr. Brennan stated much of how the site was laid out was to be in compliance with some of the
other City of Orange departments. He asked if moving the barbeque area over would conflict
with any of their other requirements?
Mr. Clift stated they might need to put two light poles in, one for each half of the parking area.
Chief Building Official, David Khorram, stated if the gathering place was brought into the center
it would need to be handicap accessible. Plus, there would need to be striping behind the cars
and it would create functional issues. He advised the Committee Members to be aware of that
situation.
Chair Fox stated they could not stripe behind the cars.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he believed a Building Official could provide for an
exception.
Committee Member McCormack asked how the handicap accessibility would work with a 6"
curb?
Chair Fox stated they could take her comments as a suggestion and if it would not work due to
accessibility issues, then it was just a suggestion.
Committee Member McCormack stated his issue had been the A/C units. There was a Palm tree
that was too close to the building and he always suggested having trees be at least 2' away from
buildings.
Mr. Brennan stated the design guideline was 36' on center and the trees were at 38' currently. If
they were moved a bit further apart they would be at 40'.
Committee Member McCormack stated in the wind the trees might hit the building and often
times when a mature tree was that close to a building it appeared odd; and when the trunk got big
it was a problem.
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Mr. Brennan stated the placement was to satisfy the 36' on center guideline, and to get it as close
as they could. If he had his choice he would move them 1 or 2 feet away from the building.
The Committee Members reviewed the tree placement.
Mr. Brennan asked if the spacing requirement could be waived if it was a detriment to the
proj ect?
Mr. Clift stated an administrative adjustment could be made. The tree spacing was only a
problem at those two areas.
Committee Member McCormack stated also in moving the trees they would be closer together
and create a denser shade canopy. With the A/C units moved and screened it was beginning to
be a better quality space.
Mr. Clift asked if they would want the benches as proposed?
The Committee Members agreed the benches were not necessary.
Committee Member Wheeler suggested pavers in that area.
Committee Member McCormack asked instead of the handicap ramp could a zero curb be put in
that spot?
Committee Member Wheeler stated they could recommend an administrative adjustment.
Chair Fox asked if the applicants had met the tree requirement?
Mr. Ortlieb stated there was a provision in the Design Standards that called for 36' and it was
linked to the code and if going beyond that, an administrative adjustment could be requested to
go up to 10 %, but if going further than that it would be a variance and that would be difficult to
obtain.
Mr. Clift stated if they went with the 10 %, they would be at 40' on center.
Committee Member McCormack stated if handicap access was being provided to the barbeque
area that was flagstone, he suggested instead of a ramp to have it be a zero curb.
Mr. Clift stated he would agree with that.
Mr. Brennan stated that would mean that the whole barbeque area would be 6" lower.
Committee Member McCormack stated the area could be raised a little higher if they wanted
that. The area would appear larger with the zero curb. There would also be flagstone with
striping on it.
Mr. Clift stated the area had originally been 5' wide, but the State's requirements called for an 8'
wide area with every 8 spaces after that. The space needed to be handicap van accessible.
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The Committee discussed the parking area and suggested the use of pavers for the area.
Mr. Brennan asked if they were speaking about the 8' area?
Chair Fox stated yes, the loading zone.
Mr. Brennan asked if that created a striping issue?
Mr. Khorram stated it would make the area appear much bigger and much better.
Committee Member McCormack stated it would help make the area more inviting.
Committee Member Wheeler stated they could create a pattern with the pavers.
Mr. Clift stated the only issue with the color choice for pavers was an area that required
permeable pavers and the manufacturer of the permeable pavers they proposed to use came in
one standard color.
Committee Member McCormack asked if the sub -base was conducive to accepting the
permeable material?
Mr. Brennan stated they had a geologist that ran filtration test and the whole area historically was
Santa Ana River.
Mr. Ortlieb stated for the landscape area on the side it would be possible to put a meandering
sidewalk that jutted out a bit if there was a desire to pull the tree back a bit, the trees had been
strategically placed for Fire Department laddering purposes.
Chair Fox stated if they moved the trees toward the property line and reduced the planter area.
Mr. Clift stated there needed to be 5' clear on the walkway. If they went with a 4' walkway that
would be okay as long as there was no plant material intruding onto it.
Chair Fox stated the planter could be moved back.
Committee Member McCormack stated there was not enough room to create a meandering path.
Mr. Clift referred the Committee to sheet T4B to review the landscape and planter areas.
Committee Member McCormack stated on the garage units they could continue the pavers
through that area. He asked if anyone else had that thought?
Chair Fox stated the manner in which the paving pattern was provided complimented the
architectural style of the building. It was blocks and masses.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 19 of 32
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to recommend approval to the Planning
Commission of DRC No. 4569 -11, Darius Equities- Apartments, subject to the findings and
conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the additional conditions:
• Horizontal siding be used all the way around the raised shed roof elements, up to the roof
overhang.
• To relocate the exterior A/ C units to the center of the common open space and to screen the
units with green screen or other similar material.
• The siding corners to be treated with a minimum corner trim or a metal reglet.
• Relocate the entry Palm trees at the front of the building, away from the building and
recommend that an administrative adjustment for the project be provided.
• Add pavers in the common open space areas.
• To use zero curb around the barbeque area.
• To add pavers at the handicap off loading area next to the barbeque, and to the accessible
path adjacent to the barbeque area.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Carol Fox, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Robert Imboden
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 20 of 32
(6) DRC No. 4612 -12 — KONA CLEANERS
• A proposal to modify a facade remodel originally approved for the building by the
Design Review Committee on April 4, 2012. Modifications have already been
conducted.
• 821 W. Taft Avenue
• Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714 - 744 -7237, cortlieb @cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Chief Building Official, David Khorram, stated the applicant for the project was not available to
attend the presentation and had asked to reschedule their presentation. The item would be heard
on May 15, 2013.
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City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 21 of 32
(7) DRC No. 4665 -12 — MARYWOOD PUMP STATION
• A proposal to demolish the existing Marywood Pump Station and construct a new
pump station building, emergency generator /enclosure, and an electrical
transformer /enclosure on a 5,228 sq. ft. City easement (currently a landscaped
hillslope).
• 1815 E. Villa Real Drive
• Staff Contact: Jennifer Le, 714- 744 -7238, jle @cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Recommendation to the City Council
Chief Building Official, David Khorram, stated per Staff, the item's presentation was moved to
July 17, 2013.
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City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 22 of 32
(8) DRC No. 4679 -13 — THE FILLING STATION
• A proposal to install new wall signs for an existing restaurant.
• 201 N. Glassell Street, Old Towne Historic District
• Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714 - 744 -7224, dryan @cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff
Report.
Applicant, John Blake, address on file, stated he was available for questions.
Public Comment
Steve Bennett, address on file, stated the OTPA was fine with the project, but there was a bit of
confusion with the lighting and whether internal lighting was proposed, as it was not allowed in
Old Towne or if there was incandescent lighting? He asked for clarification of that issue.
Committee Member Wheeler stated his first reaction was "frumpy;" it was a bit dull for that part
of Orange and Old Towne.
° Mr. Blake stated he was not involved with the original design, but the proposed sign was close to
the original in the font style and in the same color. The sign would have Halo illumination.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he felt that the applicant might be over the two - thirds rule on
the fascia.
Mr. Ryan stated to meet the minimum letter height and also to stay within the two - thirds area
there would be a problem. The canopy was an odd size and had been used in the original gas
station. There were restraints of the two - thirds of the architecture of the building and also the
minimum height of the lettering and the proposal for the signage on the awning was a solution to
the issues. The letters were 11".
Chair Fox asked how high the fascia was?
The Committee Members reviewed the plans.
Committee Member Woollett asked where the wire would go into the letters?
Mr. Blake stated in the back and then letter to letter, and behind the fascia where it would not be
visible. The letters would be totally individual just as they currently appeared, and just a bit
more dimensional for the lighting to be installed.
Committee Member Woollett asked how each individual letter would be serviced?
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 23 of 32
Mr. Blake stated the shell of the letter would come off, an aluminum shell with counter sunk
screws.
Committee Member Woollett asked what would occur over time to the polycarbonate covers,
would it get dirty over time and rusty around the edges?
Mr. Blake stated he would imagine the material would get a bit foggy over the years, but the
light would still be able to pass through.
Committee Member McCormack asked what would the light color be and he suggested that more
of an incandescent light be used.
Mr. Blake stated the color could be more of a warm light.
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve DRC No. 4679 -13, The Filling
Station, subject to the findings and conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the
following additional condition:
• to make the LED lights a warm incandescent color.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Carol Fox, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Robert Imboden
MOTION CARRIED.
1
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 24 of 32
(9) DRC No. 4685 -13 — RICK FOX —PALM AVENUE HOUSING
• An in -fill housing proposal and barn relocation on a site that contains an existing 1914
Bungalow.
• 730 W. Palm Avenue, Old Towne Historic District
• Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714 - 744 -7224, dryan @cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Preliminary Review
Chair Fox stated she would recuse herself from the item's presentation as her firm was the
architect on the proposed project.
Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff
Report.
Rick Fox, architect, address on file, stated there was a lot of information provided and he wanted
to summarize some of the basic issues that they were facing; and to review both options. There
was a bit of confusion on the site plan; Palm Avenue was on the left and the architectural
drawings had it on the right. No one doubted that the home was a contributing structure, the lot
itself was zoned a multi- family residential property, but with the impending zone change the area
of town where the property was located would be more dense in terms of the multi- family
zoning. The current owners were the 14th owners of the home, since it was built in 1914. The
owners had done a tremendous amount of work in terms of the home restoration. He presented
before and after photos. He pointed out a photograph that would view the location of where they
were proposing to move the barn. The neighborhood was multi - family residential and there were
a couple of things on the property that needed attention; one was that there was not a garage for
the residents. There was the main house and the barn. They needed to address a new in -fill
project, being the garage. The other aspect of the project was that there was the potential to
access the property from Clark Street, which was quite unique. In both options the access from
Clark Street was included, and would create a front on Palm and a front on Clark Street. The
Palm Street would be dominated by the existing residence and new proposed 2 -car garage and on
the southern half of the property, on Clark Street, that would be the main entrance to the barn or
any new in -fill construction that would be completed on the Southern portion of the property. As
Mr. Ryan had mentioned, he needed to know where the Committee stood in respect to their
recommendation on the relocation of the barn. Option B would be based on the relocation of the
barn a bit further east so it would be closer to the cul -de -sac on Clark Street. The two characters
that the barn had were the design and the feeling, specifically the architectural features and how
those features were reminiscent of how the barn was originally constructed. The record was
ambiguous on when the barn was constructed and presented some of the dilemmas that they were
facing. One of the merits of Option B would retain the main features that identified the barn as
what it was, an agricultural barn, and in relocating the barn on the site it would provide for visual
prominence on both Clark and Palm Street, rather than being hidden behind a garage. Opinions
may vary on the relocation. He felt it would be a good thing to relocate the barn, as it would
bring the barn into a part of the living fabric of the community. The barn was a bit shallow for a
garage and would not allow for water proofing as it sat in its present location for human
habitation. Moving the structure enhanced the barn's position on the property and viability. The
compass direction of the barn would not change, or the fenestration pattern, the size of the
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 25 of 32
addition to bring it to minimum size would be a relatively small addition. The addition could be
differentiated to have a visual of old and new. He was looking for feedback about the barn, on
the relocation and its adaptive reuse.
Committee Member Wheeler opened the item for discussion.
Committee Member Woollett stated he was having a hard time finding the barn.
Committee Member Wheeler stated they could continue after they heard Public Comment.
Public Comment
Steve Bennett, address on file, representing the OTPA, asked if the Committee Members had
read the letter from Mr. Frankel? (A letter from Jeff Frankel, representing OTPA, was entered
into the record.)
The Committee Members had read the letter.
Mr. Bennett stated although they generally would not encourage a barn relocation, in the case
before them moving the barn was probably the best option.
Committee Member Woollett stated in looking at the barn he was trying to figure out what the
essence of the barn would be, what would it be used for, what was it about the barn that was
reusable, and what would be part of the future building.
Mr. Fox stated there was approximately 40% of the barn material that was deteriorating and
could not be reused. There was approximately 60% of the siding that could be reused.
Committee Member Woollett stated if a wall was saved, would the boards be taken off and
nailed on another framework or would an entire wall be saved? The wall would have been built
in such a way that was so different and there would be structural issues to deal with, and not to
mention moisture and those things.
Committee Member Wheeler stated there was a project on Pixley that was single wall
construction and the walls were rebuilt inside the structure.
Mr. Fox stated that was what they were proposing, to build a new structural frame on a new
foundation at the proposed location. Wall panels would be taken from the barn and relocate to
the new structure. The new frame would be a newly constructed water - proofed structure.
Committee Member Woollett stated he was having problems visualizing that. Would the new
structure have studs and drywall in the inside?
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had constructed a similar project with studs against the
old siding. The stud would go against the inside face of the siding and the siding would be
nailed from the exterior to the studs. On the inside face of the studs would be the shear
diaphragm, plywood and on top of that the interior finish and the infiltration and vapor barrier
membranes would be wherever it would be needed.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 26 of 32
The Committee discussed the application of materials.
Mr. Fox stated the manner in which the barn was initially constructed was without exterior
battens and someone had come along and in a few places stapled lath in the inside of the barn to
keep water out. One of the things that he assumed was to add batten to the barn exterior as it
would change the character completely. They had a massive water - proofing problem and they
would need to build a solid structure, along the lines of what Committee Member Wheeler had
described. There would be a cladding system, instead of brick or tile stuck on, there would be a
fairly complicated facade that would need to be moved and reattached. The interior of the
existing barn was very dilapidated with evidence of various remodels and construction on the
inside of the barn.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on the Pixley structure he had referred to, there was roofing
paper on the exterior instead of battens. He asked what would occur with the interior battens?
Mr. Fox stated there was only one wall that had that treatment. There was 3/8" lathe and he was
not certain when that had been applied. There was an area with waterproof paper stapled to the
inside of the walls.
Committee Member Woollett asked if the barn reconstruction was a problem or an opportunity?
Mr. Fox stated the reality was in building a garage for the residents. To do nothing to the barn,
then the barn would probably cease to exist within three years. Instead of having a demolition by
neglect they might find themselves in deep trouble because they allowed that to occur; they now
found themselves in a place to do something.
Committee Member Woollett asked what was the liability issue?
Mr. Fox stated the barn was not fit for human habitation; the question was what could be done
with it. It could be structurally stabilized and used for garden tools. If they wanted to use it for a
garage the building would needed to be enlarged. By stabilizing the barn in place it would not
provide the owners with an opportunity to add a new in -fill secondary unit at the back of the
property. By relocation of the barn, the barn's architectural features would be preserved and
placed in a more prominent point of the site and allow for the balancing of the site with a small
secondary unit. A use for the barn was being created.
Committee Member Woollett asked what statement was being made with the barn?
Mr. Fox stated he was not certain what Committee Member Woollett was asking?
Committee Member Woollett stated there would be a barn, looking like a barn, and was it a
statement about the history of Orange or was it, when they were all finished there was the barn
which was not like anything else there, and calling attention to itself, what was that?
Mr. Fox stated he was not sure if the question was about adaptive reuse. He had not seen
anything wrong with adaptive reuse. The idea that a building was once a church that was now a
restaurant or an ice house that was now an office, the fact that buildings were rehabilitated and
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 27 of 32
reused was not a foreign concept. The idea that the barn would now have a better function for
today's present needs was not a bad idea. If there was a concern that in moving the barn the
feeling of an agricultural function was being changed, it seemed to him that the location and
setting of the property was changed a long time ago by others. The intent was to respect the
intent of the barn and to also be able to develop a secondary unit on the site, which in his view,
created a very interesting improvement to the end of Clark Street. The statement was that they
recognized that there was a building and adaptive reuse was not a bad idea.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it appeared there were a few things that could occur; to let
the barn rot away, to tear the barn down completely, to relocate and restore the barn as was being
proposed, and lastly, the barn could be left at its present location and restored.
Mr. Fox stated those were the four options and they had presented two.
Committee Member Wheeler stated the best option to him would be to leave the barn in its
present location and restore it for a reusable structure. He understood why the relocation was
being sought and he did not have an issue or objection to that. He had not agreed with proposal
A to tear the structure down. The solution that was being presented would be the best practical
solution. Another thought would be to keep the barn, enlarge it, and use it as a present day
garage. He was comfortable with either moving the barn or keeping it in place and having the
structure be a habitable unit. It would not be difficult to do. The other option would be to build
in place and then move it.
Mr. Fox stated they had come to a fork in the road and they needed a direction to proceed in. If
they received positive feedback for Option B, they would return to the Committee with more
information.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he would be interested, at a later date, to find out what
would be done with the apple that existed or had been painted on the barn.
Mr. Fox stated he was not certain if it was an apple, a deflated tomato, or a strawberry.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if there was any thought to rotating the barn 180 degrees so
that element would be visible from the street?
Mr. Fox stated he had not; he felt that relocating the barn in its current north orientation would
be the most respectful way to treat the barn.
Applicant, Sherry Alexander, address on file, stated it might be visible from the side. It was art.
Committee Member Wheeler asked how would the new structure relate to the barn
architecturally?
Mr. Fox stated given that the house and garage would be the primary structures from Palm
Street, the two -car garage would be constructed with compatibility to the existing residence. The
secondary unit would be architecturally compatible with the barn and perhaps a differently
oriented ridge and with exterior battens to differentiate it from the non - batten exterior of the
barn. A board and batten approach to the secondary unit with a simple gable would be the best
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 28 of 32
approach. From the front of Palm Street the barn would be visible with not much visibility of the
secondary unit due to the placement of the garage. The site where the garage would sit was also
a consideration.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had not seen a plate height for the barn, but had noticed a
loft was proposed. He asked if it would be possible to create a larger loft and not add the 26
square feet to get the floor area to the minimum?
Mr. Fox stated the head height in the barn was rather limited and he was not certain if the floor
area of the loft would count toward the floor area for the studio unit or if it was the 450 on the
ground.
Mr. Ryan stated if it covered 20% or 30% of the first floor area it might work.
Mr. Fox stated the roof was being held up by 2 x 4's.
Committee Member Wheeler stated with the relocation to the new foundation they would want to
get a bit more wood to earth separation and he assumed it would be built on a curb and add a bit
of height. Had there been any cross sections completed to determine usable space on the second
floor?
Mr. Fox stated he had not completed anything concrete, other than the concept of creating a
partial loft. They had to respect the doors on the south side and the openings he suspected had
been cut in over the past 20 to 30 years as the frame for that door was different than the rest of
the framing and had not appeared original. The door that appeared original, there had been a stair
stringer with an elf size door cut into the siding with what appeared to be original hinges. The
loft had been added but the collar ties had been cut and the reason the roof was sagging. The
roof was shored up and the planks were cracked. There had been space sheathing on the roof;
most of it was gone on the north side. On the south side of the gable there was sheathing still
there with shakes and plywood over that and then asphalt shingles. On the north side the
plywood was nailed to the rafters with asphalt singles on the plywood.
Committee Member Wheeler stated the roof was not a truss roof.
Mr. Fox stated one of the things they were working toward was to get some of the documents in
front of the Committee, as with the impending zone change to R -3 it would have a potential
greater negative impact to the barn to go from a 450 square foot structure to one that was 550
square feet to comply with the new zoning codes, to add another 100 square feet to the barn to
him was a negative.
Committee Member Wheeler stated with the new zoning the minimum for an accessory unit
would go up.
Mr. Ryan stated in R -3 the minimum would go to 550, in R -2 it could be a studio at 450.
Committee Member Wheeler asked what the minimum for an accessory unit was?
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 29 of 32
Mr. Ryan stated 450 and with two units already on the property they could not use the accessory
unit rule.
Committee Member Woollett asked how had that area gotten caught up in the zone change?
Mr. Ryan stated due to the density of the surrounding area, and to comply with the General Plan
and changes to existing zoning, at some point they needed to catch up to the existing zoning.
They were viewing the project for the impacts for size of the structure and for parking.
Committee Member McCormack asked what was the added square footage and how would it be
treated?
Mr. Ryan stated it was 26 square feet and was proposed as an entrance or covered porch area.
Mr. Fox stated the plate height was pretty high and they would not need the porch area to be that
high. He would propose a differentiating material to clarify that the new construction was not
part of the original structure.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it could be a tool shed attached to the side of the building.
Committee Member Woollett asked what would the final finish of the barn exterior be?
Mr. Fox stated probably exterior siding painted in a blue gray tone. The barn was white washed
in various places and weathered.
Ms. Alexander stated the appearance could be a weathered look.
Mr. Fox stated his concern was that if the wood that was preserved and reattached was not
treated it could eventually deteriorate at the new site; it would deteriorate under its own power.
He was not certain if the wood was cedar or possibly redwood. He imagined if it was not cedar
or redwood it probably would have been gone.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it would be fun to clean the wood off and put some sort of a
clear coat over it. Coming back to the relationship between the buildings on the site would be a
tricky problem; the residence would need to be the more finished superior structure on the site.
The new structure could have vertical siding that was not associated with the battens and a more
subtle contrast to show that the barn was older and more of a utilitarian structure. On the new
garage on the Palm side, it appeared very close to the street and he wondered if it could go back
a bit further, to be placed more typical.
Ms. Alexander stated it was in line with the house next door and it allowed visibility of the yard
from the house without obstructing the view with the garage, that would be the compromise and
she would not want the garage pushed all the way back she had wanted to have a usable yard.
The driveway was very long to the face of the house, 4 cars could be parked in front of the
garage without being out on the sidewalk.
Mr. Fox stated Option A had the set back at 31' 10" and Option B would have a similar situation.
The garage would be 20' deep.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 30 of 32
The Committee Members reviewed the plans with the applicants.
Committee Member Woollett stated he was just wondering where cars would be parked.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if a ribbon driveway would be appropriate?
Committee Member McCormack stated he had a similar view of pushing the garage back, but in
reviewing the site situation he had a feel that to save the view and yard space the location was
pretty good and the space would be usable. A ribbon driveway would be a must and it would be
four walkways to the garage. There would be four ribbons.
Ms. Alexander stated in going so far back some people could not back up very well and there
was a long way to back up there. She would not want people driving on the lawn; it was a great
distance to back out.
Committee Member McCormack stated 2' turf was about right and it would provide walkways.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it might not be appropriate for a ribbon driveway on Clark,
but possibly use an alternate paving material.
Committee Member Woollett asked what district was the property in?
Mr. Ryan stated the local district.
Committee Member Woollett stated there was an old building sitting in a local district and he
was having a hard time figuring out how they were applying the historic standards.
Mr. Ryan stated in prior surveys no secondary units were identified, including barns or garages.
Committee Member Woollett asked why a survey was done in that part of the City?
Mr. Ryan stated the building was identified in an earlier survey and it was recognized as a
historic building. The context of the area was mixed north of Palm and there were contributing
buildings that related to the local district within the period of significance up to 1940. The
building being a 1914 Craftsman was identified as being a contributing building. Keeping that
province in that area the building should not be demolished or de- listed and the City viewed it as
a contributor, even though it existed in a mixed use area and had not met the National Registry
criteria for the district, due the difference in Standards, which were different from the National
Registry and the Historic District. The building was isolated, surrounded by newer construction
and had not had the context of a National Registered properties. In looking at the site there was
another structure on it and the merits of how a building was established as a local resource, the
seven aspects of the criteria were looked at and had it met most of them, any of them, or none of
them and how had the resource added to the existing site in setting, feeling, association,
workmanship, and so forth. In looking at all of that it was determined that the barn only met two
of the aspects and that the barn was not a contributing building, however, the City supported the
reuse of the structure as the best use for the barn as it had community value and it had material
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 31 of 32
on the structure that was original to the period of construction. In looking at other barns in the
City, moving the barn was not a huge impact.
Committee Member McCormack stated he supported that approach.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he assumed Option A had been discarded.
Mr. Fox stated it would be a longer, more difficult road to get there; and part of what they were
concerned about was the impending zone change and it was the right time to move forward with
their best option.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he hoped they had provided enough input and direction.
Mr. Ryan stated when they looked at a possible demolition and what the other options were, he
felt the applicant had found a way to incorporate the existing structure on the site and make it
work. He had worked with the applicants for quite a while and there was excitement about
where the project was headed, it was a good solution and made everything work. There was
always the independent decision of whether three aspects, two or four were met; but the end
result was that it was not perfect and the choice to incorporate what existed at the site was the
best solution.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it was an acceptable way to approach the situation.
Committee Member McCormack suggested keeping the rural design with no fences. When he
viewed a large barn he thought large space and on that note he would not want to see a fence,
and he understood the reason for the fences. He suggested more of a low hedge or something
else to use for separation. With an adaptive reuse the openness would add to the appeal of the
barn.
Ms. Alexander it could be a low picket, for protection of a child or containment of a pet.
Committee Member Wheeler stated something low would work.
Committee Member McCormack stated there could be a fence built inside a shrub.
Mr. Ryan stated there were also the agricultural wire fences that might work.
The item was presented for preliminary review; therefore, no action was taken.
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City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for May 1, 2013
Page 32 of 32
ADJOURNMENT:
Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled Design
Review Committee meeting May 15, 2013.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Carol Fox, Robert Imboden
MOTION CARRIED.
Meeting adjourned at 8:36 p.m.