2011-05-04 DRC Final Minutes CITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES - FINAL
May 4, 2011
Committee Members Present: Tim McCormack
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: Bill Cathcart
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session — 5:00 P.M.
Vice Chair Woollett opened the Administrative Session @ 5:10 p.m.
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated there were no changes to the Agenda.
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated she believed all the Committee Members had received an invitation
to the OTPA Gala and she had received some information back from the City Attorney's office
that they had passed on to the Planning Commission and she wanted to share that information
with the DRC regarding what was permitted in terms of receiving gifts. The Committee
Members could accept one ticket as the OTPA was a non - profit organization and the gift of a
ticket would have no value as long as the cost to the OTPA for the invitation had not exceeded
the State gift limit of $420.00. The exception was that the limit was for one ticket only and only
the ticket used by the Committee Member. If an additional guest was to attend, that ticket would
need to be purchased and the ticket was non - transferable.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if Ms. Aranda Roseberry had heard any information
regarding a new member being appointed to the DRC?
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated she had not heard anything; the appointment would be made by the
Mayor.
The Committee Members reviewed the minutes from the DRC meeting on April 20, 2011.
Changes and corrections were noted.
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session of the
Design Review Committee meeting.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:25 p.m.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 4, 2011
Page 2 of 7
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Committee Member Cathcart was absent and there was one open position on the DRC.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
There was none.
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate
discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the
p ublic request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action
CONSENT CALENDAR:
(1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: April 20, 2011
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve the minutes from the April 20, 2011
Design Review Committee meeting with the changes and corrections noted during the
Administrative Session.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 4, 2011
Page 3 of 7
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items: None
New Agenda Items:
(2) DRC No. 4533 -11 — MERIDIAN ORANGE CENTER
• A proposal to modify the existing Sign Program (Orange Town & Country DRB No.
3431; approved 5/5/1999).
• 655 -691 S. Main Street
• Contract Staff Planner: Lucy Yeager, 714- 744 -7203, lyeager(aDcityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, presented a project overview consistent with the
Staff Report.
Applicant, John Godlewski, address on file, stated he had reviewed the conditions and they were
a matter of code and he had no problems with the conditions. The original sign program was
done back in 1999 when the shopping center and the Meridian Apartments were built as a mixed -
used project; subsequent to that there had been some parcel lines drawn with the commercial
sections being sold off separately from the apartments. The site had not quite worked anymore
as it had been envisioned in 1999. The owner of the commercial portion was Isaac Neches. It
was a tough market currently for commercial space. The shops along the northern building area
were having a difficult time leasing as it had not been anticipated that they would have sign
space. The proposal was an attempt to address that issue and in so doing they were proposing a
larger monument sign which was well within the parameters of the code. The code allowed 160
square feet and they were around 100 square feet. The original sign program limited the width of
the sign to only 60% and they were proposing an increase to 80 %; the sign code allowed more
and they were asking for signage to be placed along the back of the building. There were three
signs back there now; the code had allowed the placement of signs there. They wanted to get the
tenant spaces leased.
Public Comment:
None.
Vice Chair Woollett opened the item to the Committee for discussion.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on exhibit #2 for the monument sign, there was a call -out for
plaster columns to match the building pilasters; however, the building columns were shown on
the drawings to have some sort of stone finish, but were actually stucco.
Applicant, Isaac Neches, address on file, stated they were beautiful and actually it would be more
expensive to build them that way.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 4, 2011
Page 4 of 7
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had no problem either way. There was not an overall
height noted for the sign.
Mr. Godlewski stated the overall height would be limited to 15' and he believed the proposed
sign was at 12'. There was quite a bit of grade difference where the measurement would be
taken from.
Vice Chair Woollett stated it would be 15' maximum from the grade to the top.
Committee Member Wheeler stated the Staff Report mentioned that the distance between the
sign faces could not exceed 20 ".
Mr. Godlewski stated he had measured the signs across the street, at the book store, and they
were 24 ". Their signs were 22 3 /4 " and were not currently in compliance.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had asked Staff if that referred to just the signage portion
or if it applied to the rest of the sign, and he had not heard an answer. He proposed that they
condition it to apply only to the sign portion.
Mr. Godlewski stated he was surprised with that requirement and thought that 20 degrees made
more sense. He had checked with Anaheim and they were 36" and Santa Ana was 24 ".
Committee Member Wheeler stated on exhibit #3, item #1, aluminum panel illuminated channel
letter sign and internally mounted surface -faced can sign or one set of non - illuminated 1 %" deep
letters; they had not allowed can signs for large signs. They would be allowed with a logo, but
not as the principal sign.
Mr. Godlewski stated those were the tenant signs. He believed all the tenant signs were
individual letters.
Committee Member Wheeler stated the vitamin store had pseudo channel letters.
Vice Chair Woollett stated he would call that a logo sign.
Mr. Godlewski stated he was betwixed and between sign programs and the modifications he was
proposing to the sign program was in bold, which was just the 80 %.
Committee Member Wheeler stated there could be a change that there shall be no internally
illuminated signs with the exception of logo signs and that would apply to anything new; and the
existing would not require changes until 60% of the signs went that way. In paragraph #2 there
was a statement regarding sign height not being greater than 2 /3rds of the vertical dimension and
he wanted to clarify that. On the one piece pan channel letters were not allowed; he was not
certain what that referred to.
Mr. Godlewski stated he had no idea what the statement referred to.
Committee Member Wheeler stated in paragraph #5, logo plaques was set forth in `B above" and
he could not find any `B" and assumed that notation went back to the original sign program.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 4, 2011
Page 5 of 7
Mr. Godlewski stated there was no `B above "; it should be No. 2 above, as that statement
defined the area for the tenant signs.
Committee Member Wheeler stated they could establish what percentage of the area would be
suitable for logos.
Mr. Godlewski stated it allowed for 1 ' /z' X the width of the tenant space and he was not certain
that would be a bad thing.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it would be a cabinet sign and he suggested that the logo
sign be no more than 30 %.
Mr. Godlewski stated he would be okay with that.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had some suggested conditions and modifications to some
of the existing conditions. He passed out a sheet to the applicant and the Committee Members
that listed his suggestions and read through them with the applicant. On the columns he wanted
to clarify that they could be stucco to match the building pilasters; to use the pseudo -block
texture if they wanted to use that. On his suggested Condition No. 13 it would refer to the depth
of the monument sign. He wanted to suggest a modification to Condition No. 7, which was in
the Staff Report and it might be simpler if it read "the wall sign width shall be no greater than
80% of the tenant space width."
Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated it sounded as if he wanted the changes not only in the Staff Report
but reflected in the sign program.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that was fine. For Condition No. 12, he would want to
change that to read "the base and columns."
Vice Chair Woollett asked if this was from Committee Member Wheeler's handout, suggested
additional Conditions No. 12?
Committee Member Wheeler stated that was correct.
Committee Member McCormack asked if the monument signs were getting any larger?
Mr. Godlewski stated the sign would get taller, not wider. One of their options was to keep the
sign the same height and go wider, but in looking at that it pushed so far into the landscape that
the new addition could not be seen from southbound traffic. They also tried a pole sign at the
northern driveway, but that was a problem. They attempted a monument sign north of the north
driveway but with the setbacks, half of that sign would have been lost. The proposed sign was
their best option.
Committee Member McCormack asked if they were using the same footprint, same sight line?
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 4, 2011
Page 6 of 7
Mr. Godlewski stated they might need to reconstruct or add to, but basically they were using the
same sign columns. He had a detail of the sight line that was not in their packet, but was
provided to Staff. There was a 25' setback from the corner and it was at 31'.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it was a very crowded parking lot.
Mr. Neches stated it was a very good location; however, the design was not good. Where the fire
hydrant was situated, every two weeks he had to replace the bollards and he had spoken with the
Fire Department to see what he could do.
Mr. Godlewski stated people backed into them constantly.
Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve DRC No. 4533 -11, Meridian Orange
Center, subject to the conditions and findings contained in the Staff Report and with the
following modifications and additional conditions:
1. Modify Condition No. 6 by the addition of the following requirement: "The allowable
depth of the monument sign shall be defined as applying to the signage surface only; and
the supporting columns may be deeper so as to be square in plan."
2. Change Condition No. 7 to read: "Wall sign width shall be no greater than 80% of the
tenant space width."
3. Add Condition No. 9: "Maximum wall sign height shall be no more than two - thirds of the
height of the flat plane on which it is located defined as the space between horizontal
cornices, trim bands, or screeds."
4. Add Condition No. 10: "All new signage, with the exception of special logo signs, shall
consist of individual channel -style letters attached directly to the face of the building
without the use of external raceways."
5. Add Condition No. 11: "The maximum size of the cabinet signs acting as logos shall be
no more than 30% of the allowable sign area for the tenant. Note number 5 on Exhibit 3
of the sign program shall be modified to reflect this maximum size."
6. Add Condition No. 12: "The supporting columns and base of the monument sign shall be
colored and textured to match the existing pilasters and base of the building as actually
constructed and not as shown on the drawings accompanying the sign program. The base
and column of the monument sign may be plain or may be designed to simulate the
concrete masonry appearance of the building bases."
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for May 4, 2011
Page 7 of 7
ADJOURNMENT:
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled Design
Review Committee meeting on Wednesday, May 18, 2011.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
Meeting adjourned at 5:55 p.m.