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2010-11-03 DRC Final Minutes CITY OF ORANGE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES - FINAL November 3, 2010 Committee Members Present: Bill Cathcart Adrienne Gladson Tim McCormack Craig Wheeler Joe Woollett Committee Members Absent: None Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager Dan Ryan, Historic Preservation Planner Robert Garcia, Associate Planner Lisa Kim, Sr. Project Manager, EDD Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary Administrative Session — 5:00 P.M. Chair Cathcart opened the Administrative Session at 5:07 p.m. Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated there were no changes to the Agenda. The Committee Members reviewed the Minutes from the regular Design Review Committee meeting of October 20, 2010. Changes and corrections were noted. Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated as a follow up from the last DRC meeting when they spoke about the outline of the new standards for Old Towne, she asked the Committee Members to give some thought to any other information they would want prior to the Standards being brought back before the Committee. Items such as the period of significance, history of Old Towne, or any other information they wanted. Committee Member Gladson asked if some of that information was included in the Cultural Resource Element of the General Plan? Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated she could check. She didn't think that the Committee Members received copies of the General Plan and she could certainly ensure that they received a copy of the Cultural section. Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session of the Design Review Committee meeting. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 2 of 14 SECOND: Craig Wheeler AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None MOTION CARRIED. Administrative Session adjourned at 5:26 p.m. Regular Session - 5:30 P.M. ROLL CALL: All Committee Members were present. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the Agenda. There was none. CONSENT ITEMS: All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff, or the public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action. (1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: October 20, 2010 Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve the minutes from the regular Design Review Committee Meeting on October 20, 2010, with the changes and corrections noted during the Administrative Session. SECOND: Joe Woollett AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: Bill Cathcart ABSENT: None MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 3 of 14 AGENDA ITEMS: Continued Items: None New Aizenda Items: (2) DRC No. 4509 -10 —MASONIC LODGE • A proposal to construct an enclosed parking space within a covered parking space at the rear of the Masonic Lodge. • 71 Plaza Square (Old Towne Plaza Historic District) • Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714 - 744 -7224, dEyan(&ci1yofbrange.org • DRC Action: Final Determination Committee Member Wheeler recused himself from this item due to the location of his office. Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Richard Bostwick, address on file, stated they would comply with all the Conditions as stated, however, they wanted to ask that on the size of the space being 10' x 20', the drawing showed 9' -6" and if they added another foot they would most likely lose the parking spot next to it. Where they parked the shuttle now there was a 9' -6" area that people parked in and his concern was that if they added another foot to go to 10' it would just become an unusable space. Public Comment None. Chair Cathcart opened the item to the Committee for discussion. Committee Member Gladson asked if the Lodge had purchased a Gem vehicle, a four - passenger? Mr. Bostwick stated they had purchased a 6- passenger vehicle. Committee Member Gladson stated if a car would be parked there in the future, someone would be able to park in the other space. Mr. Bostwick stated if the Masons ever got rid of the shuttle, which probably would not happen as it was a huge investment, his recommendation would be to tear it down as there would be no reason for the garage. The purpose of the project started out as a need for a storage unit for holiday stuff and then expanded to the idea of a garage. Committee Member Gladson stated, referring to the drawing, she was not clear if there would be a top on it. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 4 of 14 Mr. Bostwick stated there would be a cover to it and he was concerned as there would be a 9' gap difference and to prevent any type of water damage he recommended that there be sheet metal installed so water would run off of it. Committee Member Gladson stated if they wanted to keep it secure and there was not a top on it, someone could get into it. Mr. Bostwick stated there would be plywood that would be secured down and would deter anyone from getting inside. Committee Member Gladson asked would it be recessed and not visible? Mr. Bostwick stated on section 4 -A2 of the drawings, it showed a section of the proposed project for her review. Committee Member Woollett stated the whole space was used by cars during the day and he presumed by tenants in the building. He asked if any consideration was given to simply putting doors over the whole space and tenants would be able to close the gate after they got their vehicle in and the space would continue to hold four cars. Part of the problem in not having the enclosed space large enough was that the Masons could at some point sell the building and it might be less costly to put roll -up doors on the whole thing. Mr. Bostwick stated the air handling units would not allow for that type of enclosure. Committee Member McCormack asked for clarification on what would be visible. Mr. Bostwick stated it would be a flat block wall. Committee Member McCormack stated in looking at a detail No. 12 -A3, there was an old style door with a hinge. Mr. Bostwick stated originally they had looked at a roll -up door, but he was concerned about head clearance. Committee Member McCormack stated when that was in a total upright position it would block the interior door and in reviewing the floor plan the door opened into the space. There would be a conflict with the garage door and not being able to open the door to the storage area. He reviewed the plans with Staff and the applicant. He asked if there would be a power outlet for the electric cart? Mr. Bostwick stated there was an outlet already there that was near the doors and that was currently used. a., Chair Cathcart stated he supported the project as the Plaza area was getting more crowded with a more exuberant clientele and it was a good solution. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 5 of 14 Mr. Ryan stated if the DRC was recommending having the side space large enough for sufficient parking they had not necessarily needed to call the space a parking space; it could be called a storage space. Whether there was holiday stuff or a vehicle stored there it could work. Committee Member McCormack stated it would be nice to allow the driver the ability to close the doors as they drove away with an electric opener. Committee Member Gladson stated they did not need to drop members off in the garage and the vehicle circulation issue would not be a problem. Committee Member Woollett stated he was very familiar with the area and if he was looking for a place to sleep at night that would be a really good spot. Mr. Bostwick stated he was not so much concerned with that, but whether the City would have issues with the area being used for storage. They could place some diagonal bracing in it. Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve DRC No. 4509 -10, Masonic Lodge, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report, and with the following additional condition: 1. To reduce the width by 6 ". And with the following recommendation: 1. To allow clearance for the opening of the garage door and add electrical as needed. SECOND: Adrienne Gladson AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None RECUSED: Craig Wheeler MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 6 of 14 (3) DRC No. 4511 -10 —THE BLOCK - STYLONS • A proposal for signage changes to the existing stylons at The Block at Orange. • 20 City Boulevard West • Staff Contact: Robert Garcia, 714 - 744 -7231, rgarcia(a,cityoforange.org • DRC Action: Preliminary Review Associate Planner, Robert Garcia, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Blake Windal, address on file, stated he was the General Manager for The Block at Orange. The stylons currently had Cingular wireless 2003 advertisements on them and they would want to update those and get back to what was the spirit of The Block. The spirit of The Block had changed slightly and as everyone knew it was primarily entertainment - driven with a few dining opportunities and some impulse shopping; and they had had some success with pulling some serious retailers to The Block. Neiman Marcus had opened last year; H & M and the Nordstrom Rack deal had been signed, and they were in a better position to be taken as a retail center. The spirit of The Block would be to allow the brands to tell their own story. They still had customers today that had not known there was a Neiman Marcus at The Block as it was tucked around the corner. With the new proposal it would be a way to get the spirit of The Block out to customers with the stylons telling the story of those stores. There were a few tenants that, within their lease agreement, would use an entire stylon. Two of such tenants would be Levi and AMC theatres; they would return with a true criteria for those two. In discussions they had talked about using 75% of a stylon for Levi and the other 25% being used for The Block tag line, which currently was "The Block at Orange Means More ", which went along with their Mills campaign of "Mills Means More ". The tag line could change over time; but that tag line would be reserved for the shopping center and each stylon would have consistency. It was a bit ambiguous based on their tenant space, but what was presented to the DRC today was their initial ideas. For a vendor such as AMC they could be ever - changing with new movie photos /titles that would not have the stylons remain static as they had been for the past eight years. They would have some freshness to them. The intent was to add color; much of The Block was in orange and purple and they would want to use those colors in the stylons too. Mr. Garcia stated the DRC could recommend some form of uniform criteria and at the same time allow some flexibility so there could be changes over time, as vendors and the market changed. Mr. Windal stated the impetus of having a retailer have their own stylon was that they were not cheap to change out; the investment to change the faces of the existing stylons was approximately $300,000.00; this was the reason why they had not changed in so many years. The intent to allow a retailer to have use of an entire stylon would be to allow tenants to share in some of the costs and it was largely the reason for allowing that. With the fourth leg and expansion of The Block, some of the stylons would be moved around, nothing drastic. Public Comment None. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 7 of 14 Chair Cathcart asked Staff if there was anything specific that the DRC needed to do since this item was presented for preliminary review only? Ms. Aranda Roseberry stated Staff was looking for some input on the design, colors, and those types of things; and the DRC's reaction to what Mr. Windal had presented. The DRC could provide direction to him, before the proposal came back before the DRC for a final determination. Chair Cathcart opened the item to the Committee for discussion. Committee Member Wheeler stated he noticed that the first group around the outside of the buildings was aligned with different entrances to the complex and he suggested that instead of having different color backgrounds, to coordinate the colors with their entrance that would add a way - finding element. Mr. Windal stated that was a valid suggestion and he had not believed they had gotten that far in their thought process. They may only have 12 stylons that would call out entries, yet the color recommendation would work. This initial color combination of purple and orange was to match the way - finding that existed that was purple and orange, and the pole identifiers were being changed around to match that in order to have a cohesive approach to the signage. Committee Member Wheeler stated it appeared that the larger pylons and the smaller pylons would have the same sort of theme and he suggested that they have different themes. The smaller ones could have the different shops listed on them and the larger stylons could have something a bit more exciting, possibly introducing some of the restaurants and to treat them as a different item. He loved the idea of having the larger stylons have the movie posters on them, especially if they were changed often enough to show current or upcoming movies. It would be very dramatic and dynamic to have those movie - themed. Mr. Windal stated in the initial intent they had wanted to provide more visibility to their tenants and they would explore the other uses for the 90' stylons. The one issue with using them for restaurant advertisement was that there was a limited amount of restaurants and Simon was more thrilled about the retailers they would be bringing to The Block and to feature them in a more significant manner. Committee Member Wheeler stated one of the reasons he visited The Block was for the restaurants. Featuring the theater would keep it fairly active and a changing environment that would be a lot of fun. Committee Member Gladson stated her thoughts and questions were more in line with harking back to the current sign program and when The Block was built in the 90's and Committee Member McCormack could probably add his experience to the discussion, but the stylons were supposed to display local heroes. Many of the folks she knew were on them. It was a great idea but it was not something that would be timely, primarily as she had not viewed The Block as a community gathering place. It was a place to go and shop. If there was a community message displayed it would not capture the audience for that type of message. While that was a part of her immediate concern, she had also known that things had changed. That was probably an City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 8 of 14 answer to her own question. The elements were so vertical and they provided such an opportunity to bring pop and excitement to the potential hot spot, next to Disneyland, next to Anaheim Stadium, and near a lot of things. It would be good to amp them up a bit and to take advantage of them. She had been to LA Live and to use some of that vibe and to down play some of the advertising components of the stylons. She had not known what the experience was at The Block and what The Block's story was; and she would like them to tell a story with the sign elements when it was all flushed out and brought back to the DRC. Mr. Windal stated he knew what she was referring to as he had worked up at Universal City Walk, which was much more in your face and the LA Live people came from City Walk; indeed, that was what they competed with. The flip side of that was, while The Block used to be a City Walk, it no longer was and was changing. There were all these great brands coming to The Block. Simon's property group's forte was retail; it was not the other things and not what it used to be. They were now about the retail and they wanted to tap the national brands. Unfortunately, if they looked at their sales it was the small "mom and pop" shops that failed and the larger retailers that succeeded. Committee Member Gladson stated one of her little things was that she had not thought that the community at large knew what The Block was right now; her perception was that it was still an entertainment place. The shopping part had not taken off yet. If there was a way to communicate that instead of just showing the brands. They had an opportunity to add lighting and other visual elements. Committee Member McCormack stated he had worked on The Block previously and the larger stylons were supposed to be for community leaders and the reason they had been approved was that they were not supposed to be used for advertisement. Obviously things changed and he was not certain what that would do to the current sign program. Mr. Garcia stated the applicant would be returning with modifications to the sign program. Committee Member McCormack stated it was very expensive to change it all out and he had been listening to what Committee Member Gladson had stated and in his mind it was The Block, a "neighborhood ". It was apparent in the paving, curbing, and the street, and it was turning into an outlet mall and there was nothing wrong with that. It was also an entertainment venue and how would they mix that and make it better for the future; it seemed that they were using old technology. When traveling to other cities there were other elements used, like LEDs; and what would hold the pulse would be the larger pylons, they could be about the movies and something that was interactive and would catch your eye from the 22 Freeway. Committee Member Wheeler stated they were on the inside and would not be visible from the 22 Freeway. Mr. Windal stated all the stylons would not be dedicated to AMC. They had looked into the use of LED signage, but the problem was that the $300,000.00 price tag went to $4,000,000.00. That was just for the electrical components. They had also looked at just changing out the lighting and it was cost prohibited. What they currently had was old technology; it was a canvas stretched across the surface. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 9 of 14 Committee Member Gladson suggested using changing colors; one minute the signs were blue, then another color. Mr. Garcia stated changeable -type signs were prohibited. If she was speaking of something similar to what the Citadel had done, which was beyond hideous, but something like that would be prohibited in the City of Orange. Mr. Windal stated they would have liked to have had LED signs as the message could be reprogrammed constantly, but the reality was the cost was prohibited and there was no return on the investment, which was the real story with Simon. They would not acquire any rent from the stylons and there would be no return on the $300,000.00. It made it more challenging. The production cost to put up the old technology was $27,000.00 for one sign and they would be going to AMC and asking that they shared the production cost. No one would pay on top of that for rental fees. That was what occurred years ago and why the Cingular signs were not changed. Committee Member McCormack asked on the stylons that would be moved was there an opportunity to enhance those? He couldn't believe that Vans would not want some type of skateboarding display. It just seemed like that could be an opportunity. Mr. Windal stated the cost to move the stylons was relatively a non - issue; but to add new technology the cost would be too great. When they had gone through the process of pricing it out they had decided it was not something they could do; it would have been more of a Citadel - type experience and it was just pure costs that had restricted them from making those changes. Committee Member Woollett asked what would happen to the sign scheme if they attempted to apply the current sign rules to the proposed project? Mr. Windal asked what rules he was referring to? Committee Member Woollett stated it was the City's rules for signage. When The Block was originally approved it was a totally new concept. It was a whole different approach to a shopping center and it was an economic development. He asked when would the project cross the threshold of a new development and adhere to the rules? Was the DRC encouraging an approach to signage that could set a precedent that they may have difficulty with in other areas of the City? Mr. Garcia stated that was why the sign proposals had gone through the process and it was again the reason that it would go through a similar process. The application before them was for new signage on the stylons. Committee Member Woollett stated it was a different concept. Mr. Garcia stated to a certain extent it was and they were changing the criteria; essentially it was a face replacement to an existing structure. Committee Member Woollett read from the sign program and stated that the content of the imagery of the stylon was directed at setting the tone for The Block of Orange; it was not the City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 10 of 14 intent of the developer to use the stylons for advertising of goods and services. If The Block of Orange were a magazine the stylons would represent the editorial contents and not the advertisers. Committee Member Woollett stated it was the concept that had been approved and they needed to consider whether they were changing that basic concept and the justification for doing that. Mr. Windal stated when he first began discussing the proposal with Mr. Garcia he had read that too, and he read it as being the spirit of The Block, the tone of The Block, and it had changed over the years. The tone was currently about retail and they touted the brands that were the strength of their mall vs. another mall. They had contemplated changing the name to The Block at Orange Premium Outlets, or Fashion Center, whatever it evolved into. In the past no retailer such as Bloomingdales or Nordstrom would place an outlet within 90 miles of their full line store; and now that was not the case. Things had changed and it was an opportunity to have an outlet mall that was not out in Cabazon or Carlsbad. They could tout the fact that they were the only local outlet destination and the only Orange County outlet destination. The brands would bring in the patrons. There would still be entertainment and there would still be that hip and edgy feel to The Block with Lucky Strike, Vans, and Dave & Busters; those would be addressed. In reading the sign program information, he read that they were in alignment and it was hard to argue that what they were proposing was advertisement, but what existed currently at The Block were Cingular wireless advertisements. He felt what they were presenting went back more towards the original goal. Committee Member Gladson stated the challenge with the type of branding signage that they proposed was that it could get a little tacky if it was not executed really well; it could get "noisy" and the reader would not see any of it. It would lose its effect. She felt the experience of a premium outlet mall was more of an experience or a story- telling venue but it was for Simon to figure out. Mr. Windal stated nowhere was anyone attempting to come up with a story with that small width area, it was difficult. Unless they only had photos it would be difficult to execute. The general thought was that there had been pictures and images for ten years and those were difficult to determine what the message was. If Simon was to spend $300,000.00 they wanted a return, for patrons to realize what the message was. Committee Member Gladson stated if the applicant was attempting to use the stylons as a way for the customers to find Neiman Marcus the patrons would want to know what side of the mall they should come from to get there faster. That would be the draw. Mr. Windal stated they were working on a layout that showed the larger stylons with the vendor that was near them and the smaller stylons with the names of other stores that could be found; a smattering of what could be found at The Block. If the feedback was not to go in that direction he could take that information back with him. Committee Member Wheeler stated that in the past the DRC had a precedent for thinking outside the box for large complexes and to allow things that would not necessarily be permitted under the sign program. As an example, could there be a possibility for the larger pylons to have electronic signage near the bottom that would have current information that could be updated; he City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 11 of 14 was opposed to anything that would be visible from the freeway. The Citadel was a terrible situation and caused traffic slowing. Mr. Windal stated he could certainly look into that; it was very costly to illuminate the entire stylon, but to illuminate a single panel might be something they could consider. Committee Member McCormack stated in the original sign program in 1998 the concept was for a TV to be installed in the lower portion of the stylons. Committee Member Woollett stated the applicant asked what was the tall pylon selling and it was selling a center; it was not selling a product and that was what it had been about. He thought it was still a valid concept. It was part of what created the ambiance of the center, the buildings, landscape, and the things that attracted people to the area. Mr. Windal stated they wanted to have diversity with the theater and other things, but the strength was in retail. Committee Member Woollett stated there was a lot going on at The Block. There was almost a cacophony of signage and colors and all kinds of things going on that created the atmosphere and he felt they were moving away from that. The buildings had more ornamentation on them and the site was becoming more of a typical retail area. The basic concept was changing. Mr. Windal stated that was true and the same evolution occurred at Irvine Spectrum. He had been there for nine years and as an entertainment and dining center it was not successful from a financial standpoint. What everyone realized was that it had to be taken seriously as a retail center in order for them to compete. Nordstrom, Macy's, and Target were added and now it was on par with Fashion Island. They were speaking of the same situation with The Block. The Block would still have its entertainment destinations, but they needed to be taken seriously as a retail center and he agreed that made it a bit boring. By the same token there would still remain the cool restaurants and they were working on bringing in more new restaurants. They needed to compete, as there were 26 malls in the market and currently they were number 19. Committee Member Gladson stated bags leaving the shops was what was missing there. Because of sustainability and that green was a really hot topic she asked if there was any opportunity to add any green features to the proposed project? On tower elements in Brea they had looked at using them for examples of something green. Mr. Windal asked if she was speaking about a green message or greener lights? Committee Member Gladson stated it could be an opportunity to utilize the stylons to do something green and to show what that was. They had previously reviewed a project from SCE that would become a demonstration for the community. Mr. Windal stated the way to truly be green with the stylons would be to convert them to LED, but the problem was with the old technology of the stretch canvas the LED lights would not shine through and the capital outlay was exorbitant. In terms of a solar panel there was not enough surface area on them and there could be opportunities to explore something graphically. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 12 of 14 4. They were speaking about the use of fluorescents that would be greener. In an outdoor mall the opportunities were not as great, but they were always exploring. Committee Member Woollett stated he would have difficulty justifying and approving a solution that would not successfully set the center apart from others in a very distinctive manner. If it would not do that he would have difficulty, as it would allow another applicant to come in and want the same freedom with signage. Committee Member Wheeler stated he had lunch at The Block recently and had asked a waitress what she thought about the stylons and she stated she had not noticed them. Chair Cathcart stated he agreed with the suggestions that had been given from the Committee Members. His concern would be that he was not thrilled with the color palette. He looked at that and he would want to see real deep colors that were crisp. Even on the tall stylons they needed to be done in crisp colors and not Fourth of July colors; they needed to be crisp and done very well. With the higher end stores such as Nordstrom that had a crispness to their sign. Committee Member McCormack stated he hit on a point. For a kid who was in college, and making reference to the H & M store, that population tended to gravitate away from the higher end stores. That customer would be looking to get more from his dollar and the colors that were being presented hit that market, but it created a problem or a challenge. He had the same challenge when he designed landscape for Home Depot; they told him that the Home Depot had not wanted to look like they had a lot of money and to get rid of the trees and to have the least amount of landscape as possible as the Home Depot was selling low cost affordable stuff and the landscape had to reflect that. The challenge the applicant had was that they had an outlet mall and they needed to convey that message to everyone. Chair Cathcart stated with the blue, it was the baby bears, the Bruins. They needed to use the original colors; the real blue, the real reds, colors that popped. There should be some theme to the signs, such as a way- finding element for the customers. Mr. Windal stated they would have a way - finding system. Chair Cathcart stated at the next presentation he would want to see the whole package. Committee Member Woollett stated they had wanted the site to be successful. Committee Member Gladson stated The Block was developed as more of an internal city and what went on inside that area was their own business. She suggested the applicant set their own rules, design it, theme it; what went on in The Block could be iconic and trendy. There may be a point with the signage not being the companies own logo or own sign; maybe it could be just imagery. She assumed they were attempting to age -up the demographics. Mr. Windal stated not necessarily; there were stores that were aimed more for the younger crowd and the Dave & Buster's end of the mall was geared toward that age group. They were attempting to add the higher end stores to the other side of the mall. The word "crisp colors" was City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 13 of 14 so subjective he wanted to get clear direction from the DRC and he asked if they wanted to get rid of the hang tag idea altogether? Committee Member McCormack stated when he first saw the hang tag signage it was very antiseptic; they should not hang so neatly and he was not certain how they got there. He suggested having more of an active door and to have fun with it. Chair Cathcart stated it would be less focused for the younger crowd and more focused with the higher end stores. Do the craziness for the kids as they would not be attracted to the crisp, real blues. Committee Member Woollett stated Chair Cathcart spoke of using pure colors. Chair Cathcart stated he felt there would be a different look for the younger crowd vs. the older shopper. Mr. Windal stated he wanted to be sure what he would take back and he clarified that they were looking for high intensity pure colors. Nordstrom and Neiman had a very muted background with the store name in black, and if that was what they meant by crisp he got that. Maybe they had not wanted color in the background. The sign examples were a bit busy and maybe they needed to change the background color. Committee Member Wheeler stated they could use black and white with the logo colors. Committee Member Woollett stated they needed colors that were complimentary to each other that would make the colors pop. With colors that were too intense they would fade too quickly such as the orange and the purple. Mr. Windal stated maybe they would move away from using the purple and orange all together and have more muted backgrounds with more pronounced colors for the brands. He heard what they were suggesting and he asked if the hang tags were still viable. Chair Cathcart stated he was okay with the hang tags; it was more of the arrangement of them. Mr. Windal stated he had a good understanding of what the suggestions were. In concept, were they open to have some tenants using an entire pylon, such as Vans or AMC? Chair Cathcart stated that would be okay. Mr. Garcia stated he had extensive notes and they would refer to the minutes. No motion was necessary as the item had been presented for preliminary review. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 3, 2010 Page 14 of 14 ADJOURNMENT: Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled Design Review Committee meeting on Wednesday, November 17, 2010. Chair Cathcart stated he would not be present at the November 17, 2010 DRC meeting. SECOND: Joe Woollett AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None MOTION CARRIED. Meeting adjourned at 6:52 p.m.